I think it's interesting to note that Obama didn't win the white vote. But neither has any other Democrat since LBJ.

 

Obama's support from whites is falling. The Economist had a good article on this last week. I'll quote it if I can find it online or I'll type it out from my hard copy.

 

Why does this even matter? Last time I checked, a black vote is as good as a white vote.

Some Americans just aren't American enough: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/03/sports/03runner.html

I think it's interesting to note that Obama didn't win the white vote. But neither has any other Democrat since LBJ.

 

Obama's support from whites is falling. The Economist had a good article on this last week. I'll quote it if I can find it online or I'll type it out from my hard copy.

 

Why does this even matter? Last time I checked, a black vote is as good as a white vote.

Because someone noted that "Obama never had the white vote" which is true but neither did any other Dem since LBJ.

^And this someone is...?

Jeffery in the Obama thread.

 

Obama never had white America.  He lost the white male vote in 2008.

 

That leaves a different impression than what gfi pointed out in this thread:

He won a larger proportion of white votes than any previous nonincumbent Democratic presidential candidate since Carter.

And, edale, while I'm with you in the "why does this even matter category" I hope you understand where I was coming from now.

 

Here's The Economist piece I was referring to:

 

Angry white men

Will piqued pale males hand the Republicans a victory in November?

 

Mar 4th 2010 | From The Economist print edition

 

Bigotry cannot explain, however, why Mr Obama’s approval rating among white Americans has fallen since he took office, from roughly 60% to 40%. As the president pointed out in September: “I was actually black before the election.” White voters have changed their view of Mr Obama not because of his skin colour, but because of what he has done—and what he has failed to do—since he took office. And although he is not on the ballot this year, this matters. The less people admire the president, the less likely they are to vote for his party in the mid-terms.

...

It will take more than a posse of piqued pale males to hand the Republicans control of Congress in November. White men are a shrinking share of the electorate: 36% in 2008, down from 43% in 1994. But still, the Democrats can hardly afford to alienate the nation’s largest ethnic group. And with the economy in the doldrums, it is not only white men who are angry.

more: http://www.economist.com/world/united-states/displaystory.cfm?story_id=15606284

Apparently there is some racial tension in South Philadelphia between blacks and Asians:

We seem to be going backwards instead of forward.

Among whites under 65 or 70 years of age, I would say that as much of 90% of what is called "racism" today is not racial at all, but cultural.

 

90% of what remains is based on incorrect assumptions that because someone belongs to a specific race, they fit a certain stereotype.

^ Too bad race, culture and identity are intertwined. Since our charge is to be 100% racially tolerant but some-lesser-percent culturally tolerant (lest we all become anarchists.)

^Absolutely not... nor should there be.  The fact that we are not a homogoneous society is a strenght, not a weakness.  We are not a "Christian", "White", "Conservative", "Liberal", (fill-in the blank) nation as you may hear some preach. 

^ If we do not have one culture, do we have a nation? Maybe an empire, or an alliance? What is a nation? Why have one? Maybe America is post-national. Maybe the world is. But most social and political theorists think that a planet with many nations based on ethnic and cultural commonalities will remain the status quo for the foreseeable future.

 

Notice I said "ethnic." That's a legitimate term. "Race" is something that Europeans made up when early science was still psuedo-science. Race is no more legitimate a concept than Physiognomy, and it is such a curiosity to me that we still use the concept.

 

I tend to agree with those sociologists who see America as having different nations, and they co-exist because they are not geographically coherent. Kind of like the "red state blue state" concept fades into purple when you parse it finely enough, and that's why we don't degenerate into civil war. The same reason that there are almost literally separate Americas for white suburbanites and poor urban blacks. They are completely different ethnicities. And yes, "racial" Whites and racial "Blacks" can be in either.

^^You are assuming there ever was "agreement" and I would argue otherwise.

 

Regardless, the disagreement is not as big as some would have us all believe.  Despite propaganda to the contrary, the basic principles of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are still alive and well as our targeted "ends".  The "means" to get there are currently and always have been the constant source of debate.

 

Basically, we are still stuck in the Hamilton vs. Jefferson debate from more than 2 centuries ago.  Probably always will be.

 

 

I think we need to focus on our shared Americanism whenever we talk about contentious issues that some use to divide us.  You know, e pluribus unum.

 

 

 

The black/white divide is dubious at best, especially nowadays.

I think anyone who has had to pronounce foreign names can relate to what he was trying to express. (Including nonnative English speakers having to pronounce English names.) A lot of nonnative English speakers have trouble with the 'th' sound, so the name Smith might be difficult for them, or seem typically English and odd to pronounce.

 

Imagine someone saying "pronouncing all these Americans' and Brits' names, I was smitherithering to death. It was hard." Is that really offensive? Perhaps it's unprofessional to say on the air. Perhaps not. But it is a problem people can relate to. Why do you think the spellings and pronunciations of so many Amercians' names have become distant from the way the name would have been pronounced in the ancestors' homeland? Foreign syllables are often hard. I think people understand that.

 

If some people are offended by it, there should certainly be a dialogue about that. I don't think it's absurd to be offended by it, but I think both sides need to be charitable and examine where the other side is coming from. It is worth pondering whether Brantley would have made a similar comment regarding other (especially European) nationalities/names, or if this truly is distinctly racial.

Jeff Brantley, Accidental Racism, and You

 

So, those of you who were around for Thursday's game thread will already have heard all about this, and a few more of you who listened to the game on the radio will have heard it as well. During the broadcast, Jeff Brantley began to talk about how his experience working the 2006 World Baseball Classic.

 

Brantley: That was one of the toughest assignments I’ve ever had was doing the World Baseball Classic and doing the Taiwan team and the team from China. Trying to pronounce those names. (chuckles)

 

Kelsh: Was that back in ’06?

 

Brantley: Aw, man, I was struggling!

 

Kelsh: That got you ready to go, though, didn’t it?

 

Brantley: Oh, I was ching-chang-ing to death. It was hard.

 

http://www.redreporter.com/2010/4/3/1403545/jeff-brantley-accidental-racism

 

This suggests to me that Jeff has never learned a new language, doesn't speak anything but sports English, and has few friends who aren't exactly like himself. Not so much racist as cloistered and small-minded.

So then we can assume that you could easily and accurately pronounce a list of a few dozen common Chinese names?

So then we can assume that you could easily and accurately pronounce a list of a few dozen common Chinese names?

 

If I knew I would be announcing them on national television, I would at least practice. And yes, I'd do alright.

I've never found foreign words or names impossible to pronounce. Hard, yes, but you can at least TRY.  I think that the majority of Americans who butcher non-English words do so because they are intimidated and feel terribly self-conscious, so like a 10th grader in Spanish class, they just deliberately say them with a totally English take.

 

 

I've never found foreign words or names impossible to pronounce. Hard, yes, but you can at least TRY.  I think that the majority of Americans who butcher non-English words do so because they are intimidated and feel terribly self-conscious, so like a 10th grader in Spanish class, they just deliberately say them with a totally English take.

 

 

and that what's wrong with you people now!  Learn about another culture!  I hate it when I'm in another country and I see/hear Americans trying to impose Americanized ideas on people in the country they are visiting.  With terms like, "well back home we don't do this".

 

I have a relatives with traditional Latino names, such as, Xiomara, Idalys, Yenny, Yesenia, Soledad, Dionisioand Diogenes.  Names are butchered constantly.  Idalys and Soledad only became easier to pronounce when tv personalities showed up on the scene with those names.

 

and on the flip side, based on a persons accent, it would irritate me to no end when a person would people would say to my mother, "now where are you from?".  Being the lady she is, she would smile, over enunciate and reply, "a place where they don't end sentences in prepositions."

 

Bottom line...some of you people need to learn and respect other cultures.

and on the flip side, based on a persons accent, it would irritate me to no end when a person would people would say to my mother, "now where are you from?".  Being the lady she is, she would smile, over enunciate and reply, "a place where they don't end sentences in prepositions."

 

hahahahah

I think this blog entry and the related discussion are somewhat related to where this conversation has headed...it's interesting, regardless. It's about place names, rather than people's names.

 

I agree that some steps should be taken to prepare for such an event, if your job involves pronouncing names and you know ahead of time it's going to happen. Wasn't the most relevant thing that he said, though, not that he had difficulty pronouncing names, but that he said he was "ching-chang-ing to death"? Difficulty in pronunciation can come, even after some preparation, but I thought the point was that 'ching-chang-ing' is an insensitive term.

Hey Zeus!  Really, folks?!  You people, in MTS' words, are being too sensitive.

Hey Zeus!  Really, folks?!  You people, in MTS' words, are being too sensitive.

 

"HEY ZEUS"?  You got jokes!  Laaawd.

I've never found foreign words or names impossible to pronounce. Hard, yes, but you can at least TRY.  I think that the majority of Americans who butcher non-English words do so because they are intimidated and feel terribly self-conscious, so like a 10th grader in Spanish class, they just deliberately say them with a totally English take.

 

and that what's wrong with you people now!  Learn about another culture!  I hate it when I'm in another country and I see/hear Americans trying to impose Americanized ideas on people in the country they are visiting.  With terms like, "well back home we don't do this".

 

I have a relatives with traditional Latino names, such as, Xiomara, Idalys, Yenny, Yesenia, Soledad, Dionisioand Diogenes.  Names are butchered constantly.  Idalys and Soledad only became easier to pronounce when tv personalities showed up on the scene with those names.

 

and on the flip side, based on a persons accent, it would irritate me to no end when a person would people would say to my mother, "now where are you from?".  Being the lady she is, she would smile, over enunciate and reply, "a place where they don't end sentences in prepositions."

 

Bottom line...some of you people need to learn and respect other cultures.

 

MTS, I often find you hard to follow when it comes to discussions of race (and other things).

 

You talk of learning and respecting other cultures and often of not being so sensitive, yet theres always such a defensiveness by you or people in your family when it comes to things like where you are from?  Is it not something you are proud of, or something you want to celebrate?  That’s usually when people become defensive when asked, otherwise typically people would be proud to explain their background (this is where I’m from!!!). 

 

It makes it difficult to learn and respect other cultures when people are defensive about it from the get go. 

 

“I hate it when I'm in another country and I see/hear Americans trying to impose Americanized ideas on people in the country they are visiting.  With terms like, "well back home we don't do this".”

Well I think being in somewhere like DC where there’s a very high Latino immigrant population, some people probably find the lack of basic assimilation a bit troubling.  I realize back home they may do things a certain way, but it really is necessary to learn to use a toilet and even trash cans while in this country.

 

I've never found foreign words or names impossible to pronounce. Hard, yes, but you can at least TRY.  I think that the majority of Americans who butcher non-English words do so because they are intimidated and feel terribly self-conscious, so like a 10th grader in Spanish class, they just deliberately say them with a totally English take.

 

and that what's wrong with you people now!  Learn about another culture!  I hate it when I'm in another country and I see/hear Americans trying to impose Americanized ideas on people in the country they are visiting.  With terms like, "well back home we don't do this".

 

I have a relatives with traditional Latino names, such as, Xiomara, Idalys, Yenny, Yesenia, Soledad, Dionisioand Diogenes.  Names are butchered constantly.  Idalys and Soledad only became easier to pronounce when tv personalities showed up on the scene with those names.

 

and on the flip side, based on a persons accent, it would irritate me to no end when a person would people would say to my mother, "now where are you from?".  Being the lady she is, she would smile, over enunciate and reply, "a place where they don't end sentences in prepositions."

 

Bottom line...some of you people need to learn and respect other cultures.

 

MTS, I often find you hard to follow when it comes to discussions of race (and other things).

 

You talk of learning and respecting other cultures and often of not being so sensitive, yet theres always such a defensiveness by you or people in your family when it comes to things like where you are from?  Is it not something you are proud of, or something you want to celebrate?  That’s usually when people become defensive when asked, otherwise typically people would be proud to explain their background (this is where I’m from!!!). 

 

It makes it difficult to learn and respect other cultures when people are defensive about it from the get go. 

 

“I hate it when I'm in another country and I see/hear Americans trying to impose Americanized ideas on people in the country they are visiting.  With terms like, "well back home we don't do this".”

Well I think being in somewhere like DC where there’s a very high Latino immigrant population, some people probably find the lack of basic assimilation a bit troubling.  I realize back home they may do things a certain way, but it really is necessary to learn to use a toilet and even trash cans while in this country.

 

 

I think you're missing my point.  I'm proud to be PR!  and I'm very pro black and Latino.

 

Its not what people say, but how they say it and their intent.  Asking my mother where she's from to find out why she lives where she does.  IE..how can you afford to live in that house on that street.

 

I'm sure it's hard for white people to understand racist actions and comments that are overtly offensive to minorities.

 

I'm sure your mother has never been mistaken for the maid.  I'm sure  you father has never been had the police called on him, simply because he was laying on his lawn.

 

How can one learn to respect other cultures, when your mother refuses to tell them her country of origin?

 

We had a new engineer from PR at work.  A young kid who struggled with the language and culture, but really worked hard at it.  We became good friends.  He told us about his girlfriend at home, named Mary.  We really didn't give the name much thought.  We never met Mary until he went home, got married and brought her back to Cincinnati.  The four of us spent a lot of time together, and we knew her as Mary and she responded to Mary.

 

A few years later, when my daughter Maria was born, neither of them could understand why we choose that name, and I said that had been my grandmothers name.  We both asked why they were so surprised, and they said because Mary was really Maria, but they wanted to fit in the United States so they used Mary instead!

 

I never said my mother doesn't or never answers the question.  She has no problem telling people she's PR.  We've never been ashamed of that. 

 

A lot of first generation Latinos adopt Americanized first names.  In the 60s and 70s it was popular, now not so much.

I think you're missing my point.  I'm proud to be PR!  and I'm very pro black and Latino.

 

Its not what people say, but how they say it and their intent.  Asking my mother where she's from to find out why she lives where she does.  IE..how can you afford to live in that house on that street.

 

I'm sure it's hard for white people to understand racist actions and comments that are overtly offensive to minorities.

 

I'm sure your mother has never been mistaken for the maid.  I'm sure  you father has never been had the police called on him, simply because he was laying on his lawn.

 

No actually I'm not, your point is always the same.  I believe you have missed mine. 

Remember I live in the Chocolate city.  Things have evened out a bit over the last few years though, but still. 

 

In your story about your mother being mistaken for the maid (yes I have a good memory), did you not admit that she came out of an unlikely house all dirty from cleaning, in a house that would typically have a maid to do the cleaning...  In a house that would typically have white owners???  I don't know how it is there, but in DC, nearly 95% of the maids/house cleaners etc. are Latin, the other 5% are black.

 

So admittedly in telling the story you basically said it was extenuating circumstances, yet your brother lost his temper on the poor guy anyway for making a stupid mistake, (thus reinforcing the Puerto Rican stereo-type), yet you'll call them racist for stereotyping such a temper)).

 

I would think most people that were proud of their heritage would have laughed about it (realizing the circumstances and how it looked), I know my family would have had a good laugh as opposed to being defensive, putting the person in a headlock and calling it racist.... as if we had some sort of inferiority complex.

 

I dont buy your arguments here.  As Dan reinforced, you cant expect people to respect a culture that your family comes across as being so defensive about. 

I think you're missing my point.  I'm proud to be PR!  and I'm very pro black and Latino.

 

Its not what people say, but how they say it and their intent.  Asking my mother where she's from to find out why she lives where she does.  IE..how can you afford to live in that house on that street.

 

I'm sure it's hard for white people to understand racist actions and comments that are overtly offensive to minorities.

 

I'm sure your mother has never been mistaken for the maid.  I'm sure  you father has never been had the police called on him, simply because he was laying on his lawn.

 

No actually I'm not, your point is always the same.  I believe you have missed mine. 

Remember I live in the Chocolate city.  Things have evened out a bit over the last few years though, but still. 

 

In your story about your mother being mistaken for the maid (yes I have a good memory), did you not admit that she came out of an unlikely house all dirty from cleaning, in a house that would typically have a maid to do the cleaning...  In a house that would typically have white owners???  I don't know how it is there, but in DC, nearly 95% of the maids/house cleaners etc. are Latin, the other 5% are black.

 

So admittedly in telling the story you basically said it was extenuating circumstances, yet your brother lost his temper on the poor guy anyway for making a stupid mistake, (thus reinforcing the Puerto Rican stereo-type), yet you'll call them racist for stereotyping such a temper)).

 

I would think most people that were proud of their heritage would have laughed about it (realizing the circumstances and how it looked), I know my family would have had a good laugh as opposed to being defensive, putting the person in a headlock and calling it racist.... as if we had some sort of inferiority complex.

 

I dont buy your arguments here.  As Dan reinforced, you cant expect people to respect a culture that your family comes across as being so defensive about. 

 

My point is the same because that is my experience and again as a white man, you dont' understand.  Living in DC and being Black and living in DC is two different things.

 

No she didn't come out the house dirty, but she had a scarf on her head.  The dude was offensive.

 

"poor guy"?  Just because the neighborhood typically has minority maids and is predominately white does not excuse his actions.  How can you justify that??

 

In the situations when my mother has been asked that its been in a way to "classify" her.  The majority of the time its never just a general question, but a question to categorize or classify.

I was just reading the Cincy Crime Discussion thread where the forumers are discussing how racist the comments sections are following Enquirer stories on crime in the City and a thought came to mind that is relevant here.  We often debate whether racism is alive and well in this country.  Many claim it is not still a big issue. 

 

However, it seems that people are simply better at keeping their racist thoughts to themselves and certainly don't share them in a room full of strangers (collateral effect of the PC movement I guess).  However, the digital age has revealed an ugly truth... just go visit about any unmoderated or undermoderated chat room, comment section, etc. and you will find it littered with racist comments.  So, I can only draw the conclusion that we have a bunch of cowards in this country that love to 'tough it up' in anonymity using their keyboard but act totally different when in public, leading to the misconception that racism is eroding.

One thing I don't understand is why, when people make ignorant statements, some people react so angrily. If someone makes a statement to be malicious, it's one thing. But when someone is just expressing their lack of understanding, I don't think they should be treated like a monster.

 

As a gay man, I get it all the time. For example, I often come across people (even friends) who try to figure out "who's the man/woman in the relationship" when they come across a gay relationship. That's pretty offensive, but it's just them being stupid. These are often people who have no discomfort being around gay people, fully support gay marriage, etc. They just don't understand the gay experience, and they don't realize they are being offensive.

 

In these types of situations, it doesn't make any sense to flip your lid, or to make that person into an enemy. You can try to educate them (which may work to varying degrees, or not at all), but when you get really defensive toward someone who means no harm, you either make them defensive (thereby reinforcing their ignorance) or you make them feel like they are walking on eggshells whenever interacting with person of X identity. Making someone afraid to interact with people of X identity is very counterproductive to the ideal of embracing each other as equals. Picking your battles, being charitable, and educating seems like the only way to further the goal of living together comfortably and happily.

No matter what store I am in, but most often in a hardware store (lowes, home depot all the time), people always ask me for help.  I give it to them, take them where the stuff is or tell them what to use and they walk thinking I work there.  happens 50% of the time.  What race do they think I am?

I think you're missing my point.  I'm proud to be PR!  and I'm very pro black and Latino.

 

Its not what people say, but how they say it and their intent.  Asking my mother where she's from to find out why she lives where she does.  IE..how can you afford to live in that house on that street.

 

I'm sure it's hard for white people to understand racist actions and comments that are overtly offensive to minorities.

 

I'm sure your mother has never been mistaken for the maid.  I'm sure  you father has never been had the police called on him, simply because he was laying on his lawn.

 

No actually I'm not, your point is always the same.  I believe you have missed mine. 

Remember I live in the Chocolate city.  Things have evened out a bit over the last few years though, but still. 

 

In your story about your mother being mistaken for the maid (yes I have a good memory), did you not admit that she came out of an unlikely house all dirty from cleaning, in a house that would typically have a maid to do the cleaning...  In a house that would typically have white owners???  I don't know how it is there, but in DC, nearly 95% of the maids/house cleaners etc. are Latin, the other 5% are black.

 

So admittedly in telling the story you basically said it was extenuating circumstances, yet your brother lost his temper on the poor guy anyway for making a stupid mistake, (thus reinforcing the Puerto Rican stereo-type), yet you'll call them racist for stereotyping such a temper)).

 

I would think most people that were proud of their heritage would have laughed about it (realizing the circumstances and how it looked), I know my family would have had a good laugh as opposed to being defensive, putting the person in a headlock and calling it racist.... as if we had some sort of inferiority complex.

 

I dont buy your arguments here.  As Dan reinforced, you cant expect people to respect a culture that your family comes across as being so defensive about. 

 

My point is the same because that is my experience and again as a white man, you dont' understand.  Living in DC and being Black and living in DC is two different things.

 

No she didn't come out the house dirty, but she had a scarf on her head.  The dude was offensive.

 

"poor guy"?  Just because the neighborhood typically has minority maids and is predominately white does not excuse his actions.  How can you justify that??

 

In the situations when my mother has been asked that its been in a way to "classify" her.  The majority of the time its never just a general question, but a question to categorize or classify.

 

I told you my memory was good, same thing:

 

"There are also those that make general assumptions about people as well.

 

When we got a new stove the gas man "thought" my mother was the maid. He asked her to sign, and per my brother said, "you can sign here.  It's ok, you can sign the lady of the houses name, I wont say anything to anyone so you don't have to worry about getting fired."

 

He assumed because my mom was dressed a certain way - and why wouldn't she, the kitchens being remodeled and she's cleaning - that she was a servant.

My mom responded, "I'll just sign Mrs. MTS" and looked at the guy.  He said, "Yes that's fine the other maids do it all the time.", which set my brother off.

 

I turned from the drive to the walkway that leads to the house and there was my brother, with his hand around the guys throat and I could hear (but couldn't see) my mother ordering my brother to put the man down and my brother telling the guy to get off our property and not letting him get in his van.  My brother wouldn't him get in van and told him to get the police.  When the police came they weren't very sympathetic to the gas guy.

 

They gave us one hell of an apology."

How can one learn to respect other cultures, when your mother refuses to tell them her country of origin?

 

We had a new engineer from PR at work.  A young kid who struggled with the language and culture, but really worked hard at it.  We became good friends.  He told us about his girlfriend at home, named Mary.  We really didn't give the name much thought.  We never met Mary until he went home, got married and brought her back to Cincinnati.  The four of us spent a lot of time together, and we knew her as Mary and she responded to Mary.

 

A few years later, when my daughter Maria was born, neither of them could understand why we choose that name, and I said that had been my grandmothers name.  We both asked why they were so surprised, and they said because Mary was really Maria, but they wanted to fit in the United States so they used Mary instead!

 

 

I have a Mexican friend that moved to Chicago with her parents when she was very young.  When they enrolled her in Catholic school the Nuns changed her name from Maria to Mary and it stuck through college.  She now goes by either one depending on what friends she is with.

willyboy.  As I said before as a white man you wont understand.  My experiences as a man of color will vary from CDM or Sherman or avogadro's.

 

I don't expect you to fully understand, especially on a message board.

 

In regard to the incident below.  Yes the man said he "thought" my mother was the maid, however, you stating why he thought that, you would have to know the mechanics of his mind.

 

His assumptions, are not an excuse for his offensive comments.

i see it sort of like asking a woman if she's pregnant.  Nope, nothing wrong with being pregnant, but it's probably best to keep your mouth shut because if she isn't there will be hell to pay.

I don't understand why the police apologized and didn't charge your brother with assault.  The man made an assumption about your mother which was incorrect, but there is nothing wrong with being a maid. 

 

Yes, it does sound a bit convoluted.

 

"As I said before as a white man you wont understand."

 

Maybe not then, but I also have a pretty good feeling that you couldnt understand certain things by your half arguments. 

 

I do understand stereotypes and how they are perpetuated, and your brother always seems to help to reinforce that stereotype (and dont make me go back and reference the other stories).  So you might want to look at him next time you complain about people making assumptions based on race etc....  Thats part of my point that you wont acknowledge.       

^The problem is that the assumption is made too often. My mom is a 55 year old head nurse and is routinely mistaken for a housekeeper. She graduated top of her class at Case and has 30 years of experience; however, doctors assume she is a housekeeper.

The man made an assumption about your mother which was incorrect, but there is nothing wrong with being a maid. 

 

I'm only here because my ears were burning.  MTS, stop using my name.

 

There is nothing wrong with being a maid, in and of itself.  But, in the context of decades of only seeing in popular culture black and latina women typecast as maids* and the parallel widespread assumption** that the main jobs women of color could hold were to clean other peoples' buildings, certainly you could understand the anger that would come out from somebody in this day and age making this assumption.

 

If you can't understand this, then why are you (you in general, not you, DanB) participating in this thread? Are you (and now I'm talking to everybody) more interested in making your point, or are you willing to listen to others and perhaps be open to having your mind changed or expanded?

 

Now, everybody stop using my name so I can get back to work.

 

 

*(If you recall, when The Jeffersons came out in the mid 70s, it was radical to have a television show where the main characters were rich and black.)

**(Based on the fact that there were few other opportunities available.)

;)

I don't understand why the police apologized and didn't charge your brother with assault.  The man made an assumption about your mother which was incorrect, but there is nothing wrong with being a maid. 

 

Yes, it does sound a bit convoluted.

 

"As I said before as a white man you wont understand."

 

Maybe not then, but I also have a pretty good feeling that you couldnt understand certain things by your half arguments. 

 

I do understand stereotypes and how they are perpetuated, and your brother always seems to help to reinforce that stereotype (and dont make me go back and reference the other stories).  So you might want to look at him next time you complain about people making assumptions based on race etc....  Thats part of my point that you wont acknowledge.       

 

WB, based on our many convos, I'm sure you dont take or are not making aany of this personal.  ;)  We just dont' agree based on our life experiences.

 

My brother?  My brother isn't a problem.  He hasn't perpetuated any stereotype.  Had I been home, at the time of the incident, we'd be burying that guy.  My brother is creampuff compared to me.  Just ask his soon to be homeless ex inlaws! >:D

 

Stereotypes & perceptions are very strong and as you know it takes a lot of work to erase them.

The man made an assumption about your mother which was incorrect, but there is nothing wrong with being a maid. 

 

I'm only here because my ears were burning.  MTS, stop using my name.

 

There is nothing wrong with being a maid, in and of itself.  But, in the context of decades of only seeing in popular culture black and latina women typecast as maids* and the parallel widespread assumption** that the main jobs women of color could hold were to clean other peoples' buildings, certainly you could understand the anger that would come out from somebody in this day and age making this assumption.

 

If you can't understand this, then why are you (you in general, not you, DanB) participating in this thread? Are you (and now I'm talking to everybody) more interested in making your point, or are you willing to listen to others and perhaps be open to having your mind changed or expanded?

 

Now, everybody stop using my name so I can get back to work.

 

 

*(If you recall, when The Jeffersons came out in the mid 70s, it was radical to have a television show where the main characters were rich and black.)

**(Based on the fact that there were few other opportunities available.)

 

HUSH BurritoBoy!  :P :P ;) ;D >:D 

 

Serious Question?  Growning up in TX, (I think TX?) I'm sure you encountered racism.  Correct?

 

Yep, I grew up in Texas. I don't think that I encountered racism, but I'm not really sure.* Part of it comes from living in San Antonio, where more than half of the folks there have Mexican ancestry of some kind, but I'm also a mutt, so I'm fairly certain that nobody really knew what my background was (hard to be racist to somebody you can't identify).

 

*There were times when I had experiences that seemed merely abnormal at the time, but upon reflection, I realized that there may have been racist motivations behind how somebody treated me.  But, keep in mind that there isn't a history of racism against Asian-Latinos. There is a history of racism against black, Puerto Ricans, etc. Were I to have been mistaken for a hired gardener outside of my own home, I'd probably be able to give the benefit of the doubt. If I were entirely Mexican and the same assumption was made, I'd be more inclined to chalk it up to racism because of the stereotype and the fact that both overt and casual racism still exists.

 

And again as a white man, you dont' understand. 

 

No man can ever walk in another man's shoes.  Race has nothing to do with that. 

ROFL at people feeling guilty (or tryin to make folks feel guilty) about they race.     

I think if people would stop hating themselves they would stop hating each other for sure. 

....but if they are just words, how does it really hurt?  Suck it up!  Its too easy to intimidate.  Did that man really do anything to MTS' mother to warrant burying the guy?  Talk about perpetuating stereotypes!

 

 

 

He insulted that my mother was not the home owner and "spoke down" to her while he was there. 

 

I do not care who you are.  You can talk about me (you'll regret it later), you can talk about my father or my brother, however, once you cross the line and disrespect my mother in any form or fashion.  All bets are off and I'm going to make you suffer. 

How can one learn to respect other cultures, when your mother refuses to tell them her country of origin?

 

We had a new engineer from PR at work.  A young kid who struggled with the language and culture, but really worked hard at it.  We became good friends.  He told us about his girlfriend at home, named Mary.  We really didn't give the name much thought.  We never met Mary until he went home, got married and brought her back to Cincinnati.  The four of us spent a lot of time together, and we knew her as Mary and she responded to Mary.

 

A few years later, when my daughter Maria was born, neither of them could understand why we choose that name, and I said that had been my grandmothers name.  We both asked why they were so surprised, and they said because Mary was really Maria, but they wanted to fit in the United States so they used Mary instead!

 

 

I have a Mexican friend that moved to Chicago with her parents when she was very young.  When they enrolled her in Catholic school the Nuns changed her name from Maria to Mary and it stuck through college.  She now goes by either one depending on what friends she is with.

 

When my parents came here from Italy, their parents changed their names from their Italian names to more American names.  For example, my Mom was Doncetta, and they changed it to Donna. 

 

And again as a white man, you dont' understand.

 

No man can ever walk in another man's shoes.  Race has nothing to do with that. 

ROFL at people feeling guilty (or tryin to make folks feel guilty) about they race.     

I think if people would stop hating themselves they would stop hating each other for sure. 

 

I dont think anyone is trying to make another forumer feel guilty.  You have to be here a little longer and get to know folks online personas. 

 

DanB is just mess, but we love him in a third world kinda way.  WB is homesick so hes lashing out!  LOL  ;D ;)  He needs a big fat Cleveland hug!

The man made an assumption about your mother which was incorrect, but there is nothing wrong with being a maid. 

 

*(If you recall, when The Jeffersons came out in the mid 70s, it was radical to have a television show where the main characters were rich and black.)

 

wasn't there an episode in which a fellow tenant in their building encountered Louise ("Weezie") in the elevator and asked if she had an "extra day," assuming she was a cleaning lady?

The man made an assumption about your mother which was incorrect, but there is nothing wrong with being a maid.

 

*(If you recall, when The Jeffersons came out in the mid 70s, it was radical to have a television show where the main characters were rich and black.)

 

wasn't there an episode in which a fellow tenant in their building encountered Louise ("Weezie") in the elevator and asked if she had an "extra day," assuming she was a cleaning lady?

 

I vaguely remember this episode, but I would have seen it in syndication about two decades ago.

 

....but if they are just words, how does it really hurt? Suck it up! Its too easy to intimidate. Did that man really do anything to MTS' mother to warrant burying the guy? Talk about perpetuating stereotypes!

 

Do words in and of themselves hurt?  No, if you remove all context.  But, we live in a complex, contextual world. Judging what we know of MTS, his mom was likely born in the 40s or 50s, which means that much of her life was spent during a time where such words were oftentimes accompanied by actions.  And, judging from how much MTS shares of his life with he, she probably has told her kids stories about her upbringing, including good things and bad things.

 

Words mean different things to different people under different contexts.

I think people just need to get over these cases of mistaken identity, and not read too much into anything.  I have been mistaken as the vallet at restaurants many times, even when I'm dressed up in a way that would indicate that I am not parking cars.  What do I do when this happens? Laugh it off, and acknowlege the fact that most vallets are young, 20 something year old men.  As long as you know who you are, who really cares what other people think about you?

 

Most maids are black or latina, so assuming that a Puerto Rican woman who is admitadly dressed down is a maid really isnt that big of a stretch.  So what, the guy was rude/condescending.  Call his supervisor and file a complaint.  There's no excuse for lashing out in a situation like that.  Next time i'm handed the keys to a car while standing outside of a restaurant, let's see what happens if I grab their neck and start to choke them.  I know that racism is out there, but people are way too quick to play the race card.  Obviously race hasn't held back MTS or his family very much...

What do I do when this happens? Laugh it off, and acknowlege the fact that most vallets are young, 20 something year old men.

 

I didn't realize that there was a history of discrimination against young, 20-something year-old-men.

 

 

I know that racism is out there, but people are way too quick to play the race card.  Obviously race hasn't held back MTS or his family very much...

 

We don't really know how much racism affects the prospects of any one person, this is true.  But, what we do know (as backed up by credible scientific studies that have undergone rigorous review) is that there is a causal relationship between prejudice and health. Even when controlling for factors such as income, social status, living conditions, and location, racism is a significant factor that adds to allostatic load, the body's reaction to chronic stress, and that this manifests itself in physical problems such as high blood pressure (leading to heart disease and stroke).

 

I don't mean to preach, nor do I feel particularly compelled to participate in this conversation ad nauseum (this I hope will be my last contribution to this thread for quite a while), but I just want to stress that everything ought to be taken into context.

European-American

 

More accurately: The "Human" Race

I think I'm a mixed race. My mom was from the south and my dad was a "Damn Yankee!" :D ROTFL!