Jump to content

Race

Guest MyTwoSense
Guest MyTwoSense
in Urbanbar

Featured Replies

  • Replies 617
  • Views 21.5k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

 

.....Census: Minorities now surpass whites in US births.....

 

Which means they are not "minorities" anymore.  Or something like that. 

 

 

 

 

 

Melungeon history is pretty interesting even if its not as fanciful as some would like

 

Now a new DNA study in the Journal of Genetic Genealogy attempts to separate truth from oral tradition and wishful thinking. The study found the truth to be somewhat less exotic: Genetic evidence shows that the families historically called Melungeons are the offspring of sub-Saharan African men and white women of northern or central European origin.

 

...when the narrative was usually the other way around.  The "master" having sex with the slaves....in this case the theory is....

 

"Estes and her fellow researchers theorize that the various Melungeon lines may have sprung from the unions of black and white indentured servants living in Virginia in the mid-1600s, before slavery."

 

 

...resulting a sort of back-country "maroon" society, perhaps akin to what developed in the Carribean & Guyanas:

 

 

"They conclude that as laws were put in place to penalize the mixing of races, the various family groups could only intermarry with each other, even migrating together from Virginia through the Carolinas before settling primarily in the mountains of East Tennessee."

 

So seeing this in the context of what was going on in the Western Hemisphere this actually makes sense. 

 

Interesting tale!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.....Census: Minorities now surpass whites in US births.....

 

Which means they are not "minorities" anymore.  Or something like that. 

 

 

I've seen this comment a lot in response to the report...... but the overall white population still constitutes a majority and we have a long way to go before that changes.

^

Kind of like the Germans are the majority ancestry group in the US, until you add the English, Scots, and Scotch-Irish together and then they are the majority. 

cue that blind racist chappelle clip lol!!

  • 5 months later...

Stirring this one back up a bit, I read this one:

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2012/10/clevelands_growing_asian_commu.html

 

To expand on my comments:

 

I saw a study a few years ago that compared Asian (including Indian and Middle eastern) immigrants and first generationers to Jews a hundred years ago:

-More likely to be in business themselves, but also heavily involved in medicine, law, and teaching.

-Very strong emphasis on educating their kids.

-Industrious to the point of being resented by other groups.

-Insular, taking care of their own community first and foremost (moreso than others)

 

It also compared blacks now to the Irish then:

-More likely to be involved in politics/government.

-Heavy representation on "both sides" of law enforcement.

-Strong representation in athletics and entertainment.

-More internal factions and disagreements than other groups.

 

and Hispanics now to Italians then:

-More inclined towards manual labor, particularly outdoors.

-Strong extended family ties.

-More of a tendency to cling to the old language.

I wonder how many of these "Melungeons" pulled a Clayton Bigsby and divorced their wives after reading this report....

 

http://news.yahoo.com/dna-study-seeks-origin-appalachias-melungeons-201144041.html

 

As well read as I am, I had never heard the term until about 3 years ago when my uncle mentioned it.  Family lore had held that we were native American - enough that I, myself am supposedly 1/8 Tsalagi.  The most easily accessed research on this suggested that melungeon was a person who was a mix of native American and Scots-Irish/German/etc.  They were also called Black Irish or Black Dutch as if some latent genetic component for dark skin had made itself evident.  My understanding is that the reasons for this were land claims and avoidance of NA relocation.

 

All that history aside there was a fascinating thing that my uncle used to substantiate his claim.  Mind you he is highly intelligent, scholarly but is prone to some odd supporting evidence at times...I think sometimes just for his own amusement while coming across as completely serious.

 

He pointed out that he, my father (his brother) and I all had a notch at the back of our heads at the base of our skull.  My wife and mother who were present did not, nor did my aunt.  It's still amusing to this day to ask people to feel the back of their head then mine when the subject comes up.

 

I wonder how many of these "Melungeons" pulled a Clayton Bigsby and divorced their wives after reading this report....

 

http://news.yahoo.com/dna-study-seeks-origin-appalachias-melungeons-201144041.html

 

Damn....I've heard "moolin-john" or "moolie" before but mostly from Italians.  I always thought it was their slang for blacks.

 

That's what I thought too but I always thought it was a play on "mulato".

My dad's side is melungeon.  The false claims were probably a result of the one-drop rule, a Jim Crow era technicality that any % black = 100% black.  So if you could claim to be Portugese, you could avoid miscegination laws and back-of-the-bus and all that crap.  Not that they had buses up in the mountains anyway.

My dad's side is melungeon.  The false claims were probably a result of the one-drop rule, a Jim Crow era technicality that any % black = 100% black.  So if you could claim to be Portugese, you could avoid miscegination laws and back-of-the-bus and all that crap.  Not that they had buses up in the mountains anyway.

 

Yeah, but I think the discrimination in Appalachia started way before that towards anyone who was not Euro.

Can't deny that, but the mountains were a lot more welcoming to mongrels than the cities were.

Agreed.  The Scots-Irish were/are hard-nosed, independent pioneers.  I'm inclined to believe that they were pretty accepting of others of the same ilk.

 

I suppose the idea of "staying with your own" was the more dominant creed.  I'm sure someone else is more familiar with this history than I.

  • 8 months later...

^^^Umm...I agree with your frustration, but Marc Anthony isn't Puerto Rican.  He was born in New York. 

 

Also, I really wish there was an "other" choice for this poll.  I refuse to classify myself as "Caucasian."

Even if the 'morans' were right and he was mecks-ee-CAN....... isn't Mexico part of the Americas?  The song is God Bless America, not God Bless Amurca

I was just glad it wasn't Neil Diamond. Did you hear him "singing" Sweet Caroline during the eighth inning? Sheesh.

 

 

^^^Umm...I agree with your frustration, but Marc Anthony isn't Puerto Rican.  He was born in New York. 

 

Also, I really wish there was an "other" choice for this poll.  I refuse to classify myself as "Caucasian."

 

BS!  Marc Anthony, like me, is of Puerto Rican descent.  Just like a person who is of Italian, Russian, Hungarian, Polish, Jamaican heritage born in the US.  For all purposes he's PR.

 

You glossed over the real issues, someone assuming he's Mexican, ie...meaning he's an immigrant, singing God Bless America a song written by an immigrant.

 

Why is it OK, for people to make ignorant statements about a person, when they know nothing about the person they are making racist statements?

Even if the 'morans' were right and he was mecks-ee-CAN....... isn't Mexico part of the Americas?  The song is God Bless America, not God Bless Amurca

But the song is about the UNITED states of America not The Americas. 

http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=sarcasm

 

But, if you want to be super technical, the uniTED STAtes of AmERica is never specified in the song.  It is a song about loving this 'land' and not wanting it to be negatively affected by overseas conflicts.

http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=sarcasm

 

But, if you want to be super technical, the uniTED STAtes of AmERica is never specified in the song.  It is a song about loving this 'land' and not wanting it to be negatively affected by overseas conflicts.

Hot mess!  LOL

Call me crazy, but if you are inclined to post racist tweets during the MLB All-Star game about who is singing, chances are you are probably not the type of person that will put a lot of thought into it.

 

Ignorance is still rampant in this country. Now everybody gets to see it. Public Shaming is a great website (and a great reminder to remember that the internet is forever!).

 

 

 

Call me crazy, but if you are inclined to post racist tweets during the MLB All-Star game about who is singing, chances are you are probably not the type of person that will put a lot of thought into it.

 

Ignorance is still rampant in this country. Now everybody gets to see it. Public Shaming is a great website (and a great reminder to remember that the internet is forever!).

 

 

 

 

True

BS!  Marc Anthony, like me, is of Puerto Rican descent.  Just like a person who is of Italian, Russian, Hungarian, Polish, Jamaican heritage born in the US.  For all purposes he's PR.

 

People from other countries think Americans are idiots when they say they are (e.g.) Italian. "Italian descent" and "Italian" are very different.

It's amazing that so called Americans do not know that us Puerto Ricans are US citizens by birth. 

 

 

This may be due mainly to the ignorance of basic facts in general when it comes to our history. Anyone with at least a high double digit IQ (and that includes me, with even a few more points added--lol) and an 8th grade education should know this. However, the fact is that many Puerto Ricans seem to choose to identify more as Puerto Rican than American, thereby creating the incorrect perception that they're not American. Am I wrong?

http://www.mainstreetpainesville.org/

49368269958_14bfde1450_n.jpg 

^By that logic, though, Texans seem to choose to identify more as Texan than American.  I think it's impersonal for a lot of Americans simply due to it being "Spanish-speaking" (more so than a Tejas or California) entity in the United States.  Much like Samoans being just as American as the Irish but I'd bet you there's tons of folks who'd beg to differ.

"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

The Irish aren't American.

I meant to say Irish-Americans LOL!  Like Samoan-Americans (as not all Samoans are Americans).

"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

When using the term "American" it's useful to distinguish between its use as a nationality and an ethnicity. Everyone who is born in the US has American nationality, but the definition of American as an "ethnicity" is much narrower - mostly those White people without a clear connection to their European roots. I would count myself as an American ethnic, because I really have no knowledge of my family connections to Europe (Alsace, Belgium, western Germany, and England). I've quite often heard "White" shorthanded as American, particularly when talking about "Mexicans".

 

That swath of pale yellow below the Ohio River are counties where a plurality of people claimed "American" ethnicity.

 

112D77164C9978E7698EFD

^That is simply a matter of self-identification.  To the extent you intend it to mean that you have melted into the pot, that is the case with most people who are not 1st or 2nd generation Americans.  And it certainly can't be limited to white people.  What about the mixed race Americans?  Their ethnicity is more unique to this country than any white person.  If your white, you might not know from where, but chances are 100% or damn near of your ancestry traces back to Europe.  For those southerners contemplated by that map, I would strongly suspect that the ancestry is specific to western and northern Europe.

 

 

I'll take this time to point out how this map shows Cincinnati to be distinctly northern :P

The map shows Comanche County, Oklahoma to be black majority, but Wikipedia has it as 65% white.

The map shows Comanche County, Oklahoma to be black majority, but Wikipedia has it as 65% white.

 

It shows African American plurality, not majority.  Whites are split amongst multiple ethnicities, so none of them must top 35%.  The same is true for Cuyahoga County.

^That is simply a matter of self-identification.  To the extent you intend it to mean that you have melted into the pot, that is the case with most people who are not 1st or 2nd generation Americans.  And it certainly can't be limited to white people.  What about the mixed race Americans?  Their ethnicity is more unique to this country than any white person.  If your white, you might not know from where, but chances are 100% or damn near of your ancestry traces back to Europe.  For those southerners contemplated by that map, I would strongly suspect that the ancestry is specific to western and northern Europe.

 

 

My experience talking about this is strictly above the Ohio River. But my guess is that out of 100 people who claim American ethnic ancestry, 90% would be melting-potted Whites. Just look at the counties where there is a plurality - they are "Southern" and White - at least the ones I know well in Indiana.

 

I don't agree that it's all self-identification. Since WWII, when European immigration essentially ended, European-Americans are gradually losing connections with their European roots. However, they are never interrogated about those roots either in the same way that a person of color (think, the Asian "perpetual foreigner") is. Usually people who are mixed race in the US are made quite conscious of what that difference is. In my experiences, certainly after WWII, very rarely does a White person get asked, "just what kind of European are you?" I'm not saying that a mixed-race person or, I hate this term, a "non-White" person can't be just or more American than a Kentuckian, but the way that race and ethnicity is defined in the US makes me think that most are taught to identify as something other than just plain American. But I'd love to hear of contrary examples.

 

Despite what this map suggests, after Native Americans, African-Americans whose ancestry comes through slavery are the most American, IMHO. As mentioned earlier, most European immigration happened after the Civil War, but the slave trade was at its peak in the 1600s and 1700s, and stopped by the early 1800s. So, there was very little 'new' African, uh, immigration until the 1960s. Thus, if we're arguing about how long and to what degree the whole of a group has been here, Blacks are more 'native' than Whites. I love watching some of my White students' eyes get REALLY WIDE when I say that in class. 

The fact is that virtual nobody is pure blood anything.  Take the Italians for example.  People claim to be "Italian" in ethnicity, but chances are they are a mosh-posh of different ethnicities given the movement and trade around the mediterranian, with influences from the middle east, northern Africa, and other parts of Europe.  Both of my wife's parents immigrated from Greece.  That would mean her ethnicity is Greek, right?  But if we trace her ancestry, we can find roots in Greece, Turkey, Lebanon, etc.  My Dad's family came over three generations ago from various parts of the former USSR.  Whether they were from Ukraine, Belarus, Russia, Poland, we are not sure.  I always assumed I was 1/4 Irish because my mom's father claimed that as his ethnicity.  Turns out, however, that only his dad was Irish and his mother was from the Canary Islands.

The fact is that virtual nobody is pure blood anything.  Take the Italians for example.  People claim to be "Italian" in ethnicity, but chances are they are a mosh-posh of different ethnicities given the movement and trade around the mediterranian, with influences from the middle east, northern Africa, and other parts of Europe.  Both of my wife's parents immigrated from Greece.  That would mean her ethnicity is Greek, right?  But if we trace her ancestry, we can find roots in Greece, Turkey, Lebanon, etc.  My Dad's family came over three generations ago from various parts of the former USSR.  Whether they were from Ukraine, Belarus, Russia, Poland, we are not sure.  I always assumed I was 1/4 Irish because my mom's father claimed that as his ethnicity.  Turns out, however, that only his dad was Irish and his mother was from the Canary Islands.

When are Americans going to accept the fact that they are Americans, and claim American as a nationality.  When are people in Italy going to say, "I have some American in me also".  I think it will finally happen in my Childrens generation. 

The fact is that virtual nobody is pure blood anything.  Take the Italians for example.  People claim to be "Italian" in ethnicity, but chances are they are a mosh-posh of different ethnicities given the movement and trade around the mediterranian, with influences from the middle east, northern Africa, and other parts of Europe.  Both of my wife's parents immigrated from Greece.  That would mean her ethnicity is Greek, right?  But if we trace her ancestry, we can find roots in Greece, Turkey, Lebanon, etc.  My Dad's family came over three generations ago from various parts of the former USSR.  Whether they were from Ukraine, Belarus, Russia, Poland, we are not sure.  I always assumed I was 1/4 Irish because my mom's father claimed that as his ethnicity.  Turns out, however, that only his dad was Irish and his mother was from the Canary Islands.

When are Americans going to accept the fact that they are Americans, and claim American as a nationality.  When are people in Italy going to say, "I have some American in me also".  I think it will finally happen in my Childrens generation. 

 

Because people confuse nationality with ethnicity.  Example, Latino is not a race.  You're only "Hispanic" if you were born on the isle of Hispanola, period!

The fact is that virtual nobody is pure blood anything.  Take the Italians for example.  People claim to be "Italian" in ethnicity, but chances are they are a mosh-posh of different ethnicities given the movement and trade around the mediterranian, with influences from the middle east, northern Africa, and other parts of Europe.  Both of my wife's parents immigrated from Greece.  That would mean her ethnicity is Greek, right?  But if we trace her ancestry, we can find roots in Greece, Turkey, Lebanon, etc.  My Dad's family came over three generations ago from various parts of the former USSR.  Whether they were from Ukraine, Belarus, Russia, Poland, we are not sure.  I always assumed I was 1/4 Irish because my mom's father claimed that as his ethnicity.  Turns out, however, that only his dad was Irish and his mother was from the Canary Islands.

When are Americans going to accept the fact that they are Americans, and claim American as a nationality.  When are people in Italy going to say, "I have some American in me also".  I think it will finally happen in my Childrens generation. 

 

People actually say this in South Korea, the American ancestry thing.  It's a mixed bag:  some of the conservatives disapprove of them, but look at the popular musicians there (especially the women) and tell me some of them don't have some serious American blood.

^^I think that might be a fairly American belief. Reading about Romania & Greece, their national heritage seems very tied to racial ethnic heritage.

^^I think that might be a fairly American belief. Reading about Romania & Greece, their national heritage seems very tied to racial ethnic heritage.

 

Keep in mind that America is one of a few nations (others being Australia and Canada, any others?) where you can move here and if you assimilate, after awhile you are just as American as anyone.

  • 9 months later...

Ugh.  I see this every day.  It drives me insane. 

  • 9 months later...

 

When I was a teenager, I was profiled all the time.  Why?  Because that's what I was - a teenager who might potentially do stupid things.  It's not always right to judge a book by its cover, but it's not always wrong either.

When I was a teenager, I was profiled all the time.  Why?  Because that's what I was - a teenager who might potentially do stupid things.  It's not always right to judge a book by its cover, but it's not always wrong either.

 

When you are acting under the color of the law, it is absolutely wrong to judge a book by its cover....... so long as the 'cover' you are referencing is some suspect classification such as race, age, gender, etc.  So says the U.S. Constitution.

When I was a teenager, I was profiled all the time.  Why?  Because that's what I was - a teenager who might potentially do stupid things.  It's not always right to judge a book by its cover, but it's not always wrong either.

 

Was doesn't equate with am.  I was a teenager isn't the same as I am an Arab.  Either case is still absolutely wrong.

"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

Create an account or sign in to comment

Go to topic listing

Recently Browsing 0

  • No registered users viewing this page.