i believe is was when they built the justice center....imagine what we'd have now if that never happened...i could shed a tear.

i believe is was when they built the justice center....imagine what we'd have now if that never happened...i could shed a tear.

I don't think it was that long ago.  To my recolection, Justice Center went up probably mid to late 70's give or take. 

^I'm sorry, you may be correct.  They did do an addition to the justice center probably in the early to mid 90's.  I think it was a jail addition. 

The buildings came down one at a time, and over many years. Depending on the Warehouse District area you're willing to count, the first buildings started coming down in the 1950s, but those were closer to West 9th. The demolitions accelerated after the Justice Center was built in the 1970s and continued until just a few years ago when the old Greyhound warehouse was demolished in or about 2000.

The buildings came down one at a time, and over many years. Depending on the Warehouse District area you're willing to count, the first buildings started coming down in the 1950s, but those were closer to West 9th. The demolitions accelerated after the Justice Center was built in the 1970s and continued until just a few years ago when the old Greyhound warehouse was demolished in or about 2000.

 

I was specifically talking about the blocks directly accross from where the AT Tower was to be built.  However, you're correct about the tear downs.

That's why I qualified my remarks to avoid another long back-and-forth sharing of clarifications to reach a mutual understanding.

I will certainly be at this shindig even though I'm not technically a "professional".

For those attending the "Professionals in the City - Clevelands Re-Development" event tonight, please remember to:

 

1. Take notes - good notes.

2. Take photos - don't worry about hosting them (I can help).

3. Feel free to invite people to your wonderful forum at UrbanOhio.com :-)

Feel free to share a few photos with Sun Newspapers since our West office is sans-photographer! Contact me via private messenger to find out more details.

crap, that's tonight?

 

Guess i wont be making it.

I forgot all about this until I was pleasantly reminded at the coffee shop. It should be an interesting talk. Shouldn't have scheduled a dinner meeting for tonight.. oh well.

 

Look forward to reading about it here!

I'm going. I forgot my camera, though !

Ha! no dinner meeting, I'll see you there.

 

WW

Well, Stark laid the smackdown in his opening remarks. He basically said out loud that all of the "old guard" needs to "step aside". He quoted names such as Stokes, Pinkney, Jacobs, and Wolstein. And then he pretty much belittled the other developments in progress avenue district, flats, etc. Saying that we needed a bigger, more transformative mindset.  It was quite the opening. More news and detail later. It's tough typing on the BB.

^Ha My mom attended a luncheon at Landerhaven two weeks ago, where I believe Sam Miller was the speaker. He said the same thing about the "old Guard" needing to step aside and even blamed his generation for not investing enough in Cleveland.

^^If the above comments accurately reflect what Stark said, that is a lot of "talk" from somebody that really, in the scheme of things, has not done that much himself. 

it was pretty accurate. Something not mentioned in Strak's opening talk: the need to work with each other instead of building these isolated, walled in projects.

 

Cleveland needs to connect, not just add new top tiered developers.

Yep, he'll called 'em out. ::nerdy voice:: I blogged about my impressions clevelandada.blogspot.com.

 

He said he wants to start Pesht next year. 1 million sq.feet of residential; 2 million sq. feet of office. $1.5 billion dollar development.

Yep, the above comments are correct about Stark's opening comments.  Was it just me, or did Zambera seem like he was gonna fall out of his chair, either cuz he was drunk or really tired?  Anyways, not much new in the way of news as far as the projects that we already know about... Stark stated that he would like to start construction by this time next year, finishing in 2010 ro 2011.  Ari gave a rundown of all of the new restaurants that will be opening in the flats, including a jazz bar and another type of concert venue, along with a Mediterranean restaurant.  He also said he was for joining the quadrants of Public Square into one large square to make a smooth transition between the Warehouse District, Public Square, E.4th and Playhouse Square and up Euclid to University Circle with the Euclid BRT.  Whoever the guy was that was representing the East Bank project mentioned having things in the project that would be "uniquely Cleveland", such as some of the shops that would be included with the project, and noted that they are moving forward with the demolitions.  Someone asked him about his thoughts on the Hustler Club, and he said he couldn't talk about that since they are in the process of trying to acquire that property through litigation. There was also a woman representing the Fairfax CDC, giving reference to the library that is being redone along 79th St., which will be LEED certified gold, with a 6000 sq. ft. extension including a green roof. 

I noted two other new-er comments before I left:

-Wolstein's rep Strnisha said "500 housing units" and he also said that it would be a mix of rental and condo and a mix of incomes would be sought.  We had already heard the 500 I think, but I'm not totally sure.

-Zaremba said "600" units when Avenue District is all said and done.  This must reflect the new land acquisition he made on the west side of e. 12th.

 

I left pretty early, but it was pretty annoying to me in there.  It was very loud with most people hanging out in the back near the bars and mingling.  It was difficult to hear the speakers and frankly I felt bad for them at points that they had to deal with it.  I think the event would have worked better in a quieter, more subdued setting.

^^ Agreed on the bad setting for this event. It would have been better at CSU.

 

Plus I didn't get the girl from the CVB (I think) who let me sit next her's phone number because I couldn't determine if her friend was a boyfriend or just a friend, thus sending me home in a disappointed mood.

 

I took notes on everyone, but here are my notes on Stark:

 

Construction to begin April to May 2008

Completion slated for 2011

 

1 million sq ft retail

2 milion sq ft office space

1 million+ sq ft residential

 

$1-1.5 Billion

 

very outspoken--best presence and speaker there (although Ari Maron, Doug Price, and Steve Strnisha did very well too)

 

"first american bike city..." "create a new city"  "old guard needs to get out of the way...time to step aside"

 

This event had a lot of potential to be very interesting.  However, it may have been better called "Un-Professionals in the City".  Apparently 1.5 hours of "networking" prior to the discussion is too much time for people to remember why they came in the first place.  It is really a shame and was embarrasing for the org. that put it on to see so many idiots that would not shut up, ruin it for the rest of us.  It looked at times that Bob Stark was going to explode or walk off the stage due to the vocal noise coming from the bar. 

 

You would of thought that everyone at this event would of been engaged in the discussion - but for about 200 of the people, they were at it for a happy hour...and it wasn't even an open bar! 

no open bar? glad I didn't go!

My friend and I agreed that it probably wasn't a wise idea to have people standing around drinking for two hours before a lecture. Also, it seems like Cleveland is getting pretty liberal about this "young" professional thing ... there seemed to be a lot of folks in their 40s and 50s. Glad to see these people interested in development and in young professional events, but this new platform is supposed to be less about networking and more about identifying a common agenda that will serve the needs of Cleveland's 20- and 30-something. Seems incongruous to have so many people NOT in that age group getting buzzed and eating all the appetizers (sorry ... I was starving last night).

 

I, too, felt that the event reflected poorly on Cleveland's young people. I think it was Stark at one point who said something along the lines of "If you're talking up there in the back, you're going to miss some interesting news". To no avail, of course. A certain unnamed Urban Ohio forumer actually took the mic during Q & A to beseech people to shut up. A bizarre, bizarre night.

After countless forums at Levin, I've found that developers never really say anything that we don't already know on UO. Glad I missed it. Sounds odd.

 

I wish that Stark would say something new. His bravado gets kind of old. I know that it really should take a while to get his project off the ground, but he needs to temper his words to adequately reflect a realistic timeline or else he'll start to lose credibility.

 

 

By the way, I keep on hearing 455 total residential units on the East Bank.

I didn't attend for the same reason.

I attended and wished I didn't.  After getting there at 6pm and waiting around for 45 minutes, I left because the event STILL did not start.  Whoever organized the event has their head up their ass! 

Thank you folks for those who attended - I'm sorry you had to endure it. It's really disappointing that the organizers couldn't control the crowd and it's disrespectful and insulting to both the speakers and those who were genuinely hoping to learn something.

Nothing to report that hasn't already been said.  I will agree with those here who stated that we really weren't presented with anything that hadn't already been discussed on this forum.  There was an opportunity to ask the panel questions, but it was the usual suspects who got to the mic.  Ed "Citizen" Hauser and Kevin "Cleveland Bikes" Cronin were among them, but to me, this sort of forum format is not a great opportunity to get down and dirty with the developers.  Anytime there are cameras and 1,000 people watching, you're going to get a boiled down, PC response.  Are you exploring sustainable building techniques?  Of course!  Is the waterfront important to your development plans?  Of course it is?  But there was really no chance to get down to the nitty gritty of what was being done to address these things.

 

Of course, there could've been a dozen great questions and enlightening responses, but I wouldn't know because I didn't have a wristband that would allow me to get into the VIP section or the balls to tell everyone to shut the hell up so I could hear. 

Ugh... what an utter waste of time that was.  Mingling from 6-7:35, then the guy from Nat'l City gets up there b/c they helped sponsor the thing and gives a 5 minute speech including the details of how great their free checking and debit cards are!  The panel itself lasted no more than an hour, although, as others have mentioned it was hard to hear above the din.  Would have been much better, too, if the moderator had done more than just pass the mic around.  Have someone up there who actually knew something and could moderate the discussion by asking good questions and leading a discussion instead of relying on whichever self-serving wacko grabbed the mic.

 

Stark was very unimpressive to me.  Lots of trite blabber. At first he came off as provocative, but when just about every comment was in the same generic, over-the-top vein, he ended up just sounding like a blowhard.  Doug Price and Ari Maron were the most impressive of the bunch.

"the guy from Nat'l City gets up there b/c they helped sponsor the thing and gives a 5 minute speech including the details of how great their free checking and debit cards are!"

 

Please tell me you're kidding! I've seen that at other events and it's absolutely tacky to shill your company like that - unless it directly relates to the presentation. 

Yeah, kicking off with the National City promo speech, you could almost hear an inaudible collective groan from the audience..."oh god, is this what the entire event is going to be...?"

 

I appreciated the guys like Ari Maron and the lady from Fairfax Dev. who actually talked details about what they are working on, rather than just generalizations and boosterism talk, which is what it seemed like Stark was doing.  And it didn't seem productive to me to bash developers by name regardless of what you think of them.  This is a small town, you may need to work with some of these people one day.

 

And I agree, the talking and mingling was very distracting and rude to the speakers and people who were trying to listen.  Who was the UOer who got up and tried to get everyone to stop talking?

Yeah, kicking off with the National City promo speech, you could almost hear an inaudible collective groan from the audience..."oh god, is this what the entire event is going to be...?"

 

I appreciated the guys like Ari Maron and the lady from Fairfax Dev. who actually talked details about what they are working on, rather than just generalizations and boosterism talk, which is what it seemed like Stark was doing.  And it didn't seem productive to me to bash developers by name regardless of what you think of them.  This is a small town, you may need to work with some of these people one day.

 

And I agree, the talking and mingling was very distracting and rude to the speakers and people who were trying to listen.  Who was the UOer who got up and tried to get everyone to stop talking?

 

Cleveland is not a small town!

 

 

However, I think, what you might be trying to say is the circle of people he is working or could potentially work with is "small".

 

Is that a fair statement?

^I'd say so.

You know how many times I said, "this is a small town," while living in New York?  It's a figure of speech!  When you find that you're butting heads with the same 5 property owners every time you try to acquire a piece of land, "it's a small town!"  Or when you get on the L train at 14th Street during rush hour and find that you're on the same damned car as the people who are staying at your apartment that weekend and who you haven't seen since you left home that morning, "it's a small town!"

You know how many times I said, "this is a small town," while living in New York?  It's a figure of speech!  When you find that you're butting heads with the same 5 property owners every time you try to acquire a piece of land, "it's a small town!"  Or when you get on the L train at 14th Street during rush hour and find that you're on the same damned car as the people who are staying at your apartment that weekend and who you haven't seen since you left home that morning, "it's a small town!"

 

I had one of those moments in NYC a few years back. I ran into a friend from college in Brooklyn that I hadn't seen in five years. Later in the day, I ran into her again on the subway.

cue Disney song- "It's a Small World, Afterall"

 

Last time I went to DC I randomly bumped into a friend of mine from Seattle who I'd lost contact with while I was walking on the Mall.  He was taking an audio tour, otherwise he wouldn't have been there, as he neither lived nor worked in that part of town.  He had moved there some time after finishing up school.  Turns out another friend of mine from Seattle had also moved out there seperately.  So later that week I went out in DC with my friends from Seattle, who I hadn't seen in years.

 

Anyways, this is preemptive:

 

BACK ON TOPIC, PLEASE!!!!!

However, I think, what you might be trying to say is the circle of people he is working or could potentially work with is "small".

 

Is that a fair statement?

Yes, that's what I meant when I called it a small town.

Whole thing seemed like a pep rally. 

And who was that drunk dude that quoted the Bone Thugs-n-Harmony song by saying, "...common Cleveland.  Cleveland is the city where we come from..."  It was at this point that the MC and several others swooped in and escorted him from the joint.  Stark looked entertained though.  Hilarious.

Drinks for almost 2 hours before an event where crowd control is needed is not a good idea.

appetizers first, then talk, then booze

I was not at the presentation (or lack there of), but I have been to previous YP meet-ups. If I had gone my comments would likely echo many of the previous posts. My only additional comment would be that this event is always promoted as a networking event before it is an informational event. The last one I went was at the Botanical Gardens in the fall when newly elected Mayor Jackson spoke. The same things happened. More people were interested in talking with each other then they were in what he had to say. Although in this case, his speech was in an area different from most of the socializing.

musky that thing gives me a migrane!

 

I can't read your posts anymore  :(

 

 

 

I love your avatar, Musky. Don't let anyone convince you to remove it!

Thank you.

I feel better now.

 

 

EDIT:

 

I was just thinking - Hey, that didn't sound very genuine. So I wanted to make sure you get the correct feeling implied.

 

 

I heart blueberrie's,  its my favorite upper-middle class brand ;)

Does anyone have a ball park figure for the # of housing units that Stark has planned for phase I?

I came up with an estimate based on the Warehouse District's masterplan for the area between West 3rd, West 6th, Superior and St. Clair. I posted that in a message somewhere in this thread. But when I used the search function on this site to find it, nothing came up. I think it was something like 400-500 units??

SCOOP:

I heard that Stark is moving his offices to the Warehouse District.

SCOPE? or, SCOOP?!