I know when I walked by there a couple of weeks ago, there were no renderings, just a low aerial of Downtown.  I looked very closely in hopes that they would have something up.

I'm currently lacking a life right now. Maybe I'll swing by there this weekend.

I walked past yesterday after work, peered in all the windows, and saw nothing that I hadn't seen in the PeeDee over the last year ..

 

:(

I scoped out the building as well - I saw a skyline shot on the wall in their conference room facing St. Clair. It wasn't altered in any way, shape or form - it was an aerial view from the west, but there was nothing superimposed on it.

 

I also saw two easels - one I couldn't see, the other had the same "conceptual" rendering we've seen all along. So where was this alleged new rendering? :-)

I went by there after the concert as well and saw two photographs in the conference room facing St. Clair.  One large one with the city as it stands right now and a second smaller one with red and blue computer generated buildings of what they are hoping will one day exists.

I apologize to everyone.  I was talking about the red and blue compluter generated buildings in the skyline picture.  I did search the thread for the rendition and could not find it, so I assumed it was a newer picture.  Either way, I'm happy it is now in the window for all the passerbys and I hope I didn't cause anyone to go too far out of their way.

Umm....I'm going to take back my apology, at least a little bit.  I just walked past there and it was exactly how MayDay described.  this means that the picture ragarcia and I saw is no longer in the window...?? 

 

If anyone has the image of the red and blue computer generated buildings incorporated into the skyline, then please post it.  What we saw was a newer rendition of about a dozen buildings superimposed into the Cleveland skyline from an arial westside view. 

 

If no one posts anything, we may be seeing a new rendition coming out shortly. 

^ mysterious that they took something like that down.

Someone's creepin' on UO :-)

Stark hopes to start building by next spring, according to:

(Look at the bottom right) and zoom in

 

 

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/1396/stopgohj0.jpg

 

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/wide/index.ssf?0725bizmain.html

I took a walk by Stark's offices today, and peeking in the window I saw some new renderings. They were for a building across W. 6th from the Rockefeller building.  It was about as tall and large as the Rockefeller, or maybe a little larger.  Very modern/glass cube style, though the massing looked like it was broken up some at the bottom few floors.  I tried taking a picture with my cellphone camera, but it didn't really turn out.  Oh yes, and in the corner of the display boards were the words "Earnst and Young".

Ahhhhhhhh........so the cannibalizing for the greater good begin!

 

So if they move out of the Huntington Building, will that also mean they are expanding?

 

X, did it appear they would be the sole tenant of just an occupant of major space in the building?

There isn't any way to tell from the renderings.  At least not while peering at them from a distance though a dirty, glaring window.

Does Stark actually own that parcel?  I was under the impression (and actually don't really know where I got this impression other than this board or the newspaper) that of the entire block between Superior and St. Clair and W.3rd and W.6th, he and his partners had failed to gain control to date of the small parcel across form the Rockerfeller Building where that ugly parking garage and check cashing store is located.  Maybe I am wrong.  Anybody know for sure.

 

Also, surprised that such big news (Ernst and Young moving) has not been leaked or announced yet.  That would leave a big void in the Huntington Bldg.

^If Pesht were a sure thing, then I'm sure that Stark would have announced it by now.

If the two properties comprising the shabby parking garage and check cashing business were sold, the auditor's site doesn't show it yet.

 

Then again, Stark owns only one property in the W6th, W3rd, St. Clair, Superior powerblock, the one where his new offices are. The rest is through his partnership with property owner Tony Asher. Perhaps he has a new partnership with the owners of the parking deck/check cashing place. I guess we'll have to wait and see. Here is what I discovered in the waning days of 2005 about that part of "Pesht"...

 

One of the three parcels has an old parking deck on it, and is owned by several partners, including the estate of Irving Chelm and another guy named Ed Kowit. The parking deck has been on the market before and, in the early 1990s, was the site for a 15-story office building designed by Richard Fleischman that got preliminary approval from the city. The office market soured and the plans were scrapped. Another parcel is within the parking deck, and was the former Hoty's restaurant, now a check-cashing business. It is owned by Ed Kowit. I spoke to Kowit, and he said he hasn't been approached by Stark or Asher yet.

 

Also, regarding Ernst & Young, remember what Joe Cimperman said. This is from an article I wrote in mid-May:

 

Cimperman said Stark's relocation downtown from eastern suburban Woodmere is more practical than symbolic. Locating downtown will put Stark's sales staff within walking distance of 10 major law and accounting firms whose leases are due to expire within the next five years.

 

The first of those leases to expire is for law firm Baker Hostetler. Although it has offices nationwide, Baker is headquartered in Cleveland and employs 455 people here. The firm leases 164,000 square feet and eight floors at National City Center on East Ninth Street and Euclid Avenue.

 

Its lease expires in late 2008 and may need up to 200,000 square feet to accommodate future growth, according to several real estate brokers. Baker is being sought after by Stark, Wolstein and other developers to help anchor their projects.

 

"And Baker is just one of 10," Cimperman said.

Ahhhhhhhh........so the cannibalizing for the greater good begin!

 

I like the way you put that MTS!  I'm also hoping though that Stark and Wolstein are able to fill a large portion of their office space (1/3 to 1/2 maybe?) with tenants that are A, from out of the region, or B, from the 'burbs.

since when is cannibalization a  good thing?

 

remember BP?

To clarify, I thought it was inciteful that he was calling it cannibalization.  If a good portion of the new office space is filled by out of region or out of market tenants, then the rest of the new space might represent a more appropriate amount of space for some of the organic growth going on in the market.  Another ~1 million sq. ft. as else equal would just flood the market.

since when is cannibalization a  good thing?

 

remember BP?

 

Damnit Pope - thanks for reminding me of the coup and ruining my morning!!  What those unclef*ckers at BP did to us at SOHIO is totally different!   

organic growth=good

 

cannibalization=always a losing game.

It's cannibalization unless the company that's moving is growing and the office market is tight enough that large blocks of available space in existing buildings aren't available.

 

Now THAT's a run-on sentence!

Yep. there are two building renditions currently in the window...one is sort of a rounded glass top about 18-25 stories and the other one is about the same height as rockefeller.  I didn't want to report it two days ago in case the images would disappear again...

 

The first building would add a great shape and of course some more height to the skyline.  It will be interesting to see if these will be the first built in the project.

 

I took a walk by Stark's offices today, and peeking in the window I saw some new renderings. They were for a building across W. 6th from the Rockefeller building.  It was about as tall and large as the Rockefeller, or maybe a little larger.  Very modern/glass cube style, though the massing looked like it was broken up some at the bottom few floors.  I tried taking a picture with my cellphone camera, but it didn't really turn out.  Oh yes, and in the corner of the display boards were the words "Earnst and Young".

Pictures please

All I have is a damn cell phone camera...I'll see what I can do later today

I went by today but it's absurdly hot today, and the glare on the windows wasn't conducive for photos. Sorry!

if only i was still working downtown id get some shots...

I went by today but it's absurdly hot today, and the glare on the windows wasn't conducive for photos. Sorry!

 

wow...something preventing the HBIC from taking a picture!  Now that's news worthy.

My contact at First Energy, said the engineering department has been contacted by Stark about a 5-8 million Square foot project that they'd like to start discussing.

^If true then this is just more evidence that this whole Pesht thing is in the touchy-feely stage.  This sounds like "lets start preliminary negotiations" regarding rates and the like for a project that may involve over the course of the next 20 years.  I would be more excited if the engineer said that Stark had contacted then regarding design plans for a 400,000 sq. foot building.

Dude, do you really even know what your talking about?  This is the same situation that the St. Ignatius Performing Arts is in, (negotiations with CPP for electric rates for the project), and it will start construction in January.  So I don't think this sort of contact should be looked at as being in a so called "touchey feely stage."  They know they are going to have to pay for power, so why else would they want to know unless they are srious about getting somehing going?

^easy there tiger.

^easy there tiger.

 

Well, rumor has it Htsguy is an undercover City Architecture operative.....

 

 

:shoot: :shoot: :shoot: :shoot: :shoot: :shoot:

 

8-)

W 28th you seem to be having a problem understanding my comments (above and in the University Circle thread as well...check my reply there).  Maybe I am not articulating very well and if that is the case I apologize for that.  My point is that you ACTUALLY DO the leg work Stark is doing if you are building 5-8 million square feet.  And you do it early on.  Right now they are plugging in numbers for the whole proposed project and the electrical aspect is only one of hundreds of issues they should be considering at this stage.  That is what I meant by touchy feeling because if they were serious about building shortly they would be approaching the engineer about issues that relate to the initial phase, not 20 years of building.  That is why I said this is not evidence of something happen shortly.  Questions regarding the provision of power to say a 400,000 square building would, in my mind, be an indication that construction on the first phase is in the near future. 

 

Maybe I am wrong but perhaps you should take a deep breath.

Actually Jamiec, City Arch. (and a former neighbor who is very talented) designed the townhouse I live in (which has won awards). By admitting this if I am found dead in my bed you now all know who did the dirty deed. :lol:

Stark is doing this right. Lots of people in control of huge projects wait until they absoulutely need the services of the electric utility to do work. This puts the electric company and construction company in a bind, because typically the Electric ute can't drop everything and run to work on that other project. This in turn puts the construction company in a bad spot due to delays. He could be talking about starting things for the first phase, which he wants to start by next spring, and planning on getting things prepared for the next phase.

5-8 million square feet?  That's quite a range.

5-8 million square feet?  That's quite a range.

 

Well thats alot of miles to walk,Like I said by spring this thing is flying and I am not a co-pilot.I piss off

For what it's worth, I was contacted by a local architecture firm who wanted to buy hi-res photos of the site. They happily bought image licenses, so I can only imagine they're being used for renderings of the site :-)

Consider the nature of the request to First Energy. The request isn't about Phase One (Powerblock) of the whole "Pesht" thing. Nor is it just about the Warehouse District portion. At 5-8 million square feet, that IS the whole "Pesht" thing -- from Superior Avenue north to the lake; from the Cuyahoga River's mouth to north of Cleveland Browns Stadium. Why would you need to evaluate the First Energy's capacity to handle the power needs for a part of downtown that once had buildings on them -- in the Warehouse District. When you're looking at adding 50,000+ housing units, a million or two square feet offices and at least as much retail space for all phases of Pesht, you're basically asking First Energy what they need to handle the power needs of building a new city where one has never existed before.

For what it's worth, I was contacted by a local architecture firm who wanted to buy hi-res photos of the site. They happily bought image licenses, so I can only imagine they're being used for renderings of the site :-)

 

A long night last night Htsguy, I see your points moer clearly today.

Can you elaborate on who the firm is?

Consider the nature of the request to First Energy. The request isn't about Phase One (Powerblock) of the whole "Pesht" thing. Nor is it just about the Warehouse District portion. At 5-8 million square feet, that IS the whole "Pesht" thing -- from Superior Avenue north to the lake; from the Cuyahoga River's mouth to north of Cleveland Browns Stadium. Why would you need to evaluate the First Energy's capacity to handle the power needs for a part of downtown that once had buildings on them -- in the Warehouse District. When you're looking at adding 50,000+ housing units, a million or two square feet offices and at least as much retail space for all phases of Pesht, you're basically asking First Energy what they need to handle the power needs of building a new city where one has never existed before.

 

5-8 million square feet wouldn't hold all that- a housing unit averages about 1500 sq ft so at 50,000 units the housing alone would make up 75,000,000 sq ft of space.  I thought he wanted 50,000 total residents- including current units, but the point still holds, that can't be the whole project.  But 5-8 million sq ft is larger than I thought the power block was going to be.  Maybe he is playing around with the size some, but that has to be the power block, or at most the power block plus some other, limited portion of the project.

Damn. My math sucks.

^^Maybe he's doing something over in Dubai  ;)

did anyone take pictures of these renderings in the window?

god you guys are needy.

^so you're saying you didn't take any pictures?^

Just asked Cimperman about the Ernst & Young renderings (I have a call into Stark's PR guy). Joe had no specific knowledge about a building for them, but noted the following six downtown companies (or divisions) are "taking a look at their leases" and are candidates for new office space:

 

> KeyBank's System Accounting Division (now in the May Co)

> Baker Hostetler

> Eaton

> Huntington

> Squires Sanders Dempsey

> Ernst & Young

 

Some biggies in there. Four more companies will be looking at their leases in the coming years but I don't know which ones.

^While Squires lease my be up soon (seems like they just moved in) I doubt they will move from Key Center.  It is a great location is Cleveland's premier building and they have much invested in a very nice space with great views.

So, I was browsing the bialosky firm website, and I noticed on their "projects" page they attached an image to their "urban design" category. Its definately Stark's warehouse district plan. Unfortunetly, the project is not named and no other images are to be found on their website. Its only a glimpse so don't get excited: http://www.bialosky.com/index.cfm/projects