^i thought that the Steelyard TIF avoids taking any dollars that would go to the schools.

 

Don't want to veer OT (per Pope) but often times the schools are made whole in some other way, some other taxes are kicked their way. This may have been the case with SYC -- or maybe they only took a portion of the increase and didn't touch the school system's slice. I believe the legislation for the TIF district usually addresses these details.

 

TIFs are very popular these days as a mechanism for getting large scale projects off the ground. There is an inherent risk in that if the incremental tax revenues in the TIF district don't meet projections over the life of the bonds, for whatever reason, the city would be on the hook to pay off the bonds anyway from its general fund revenue.

exactly.....  Municipalities have come to rely on the use of TIF’s in an era of disappearing federal economic development aid. 

 

Some of the problems include the possibility that increased development within a district will fail to generate sufficient revenues to retire the bonds, leaving the government with the responsibility of servicing the debt from the general fund (not likely an issue in a period of booming real estate development, but if a glut in commercial property were to develop then this would become an issue)

 

Another problem involves the inability of overlying jurisdictions, particularly school districts, to share in the fruits of development until the TIF bonds are retired.  Several states, compensate schools for this loss of access to the tax increment, essentially making state taxpayers subsidize local development. 

 

TIF also freezes a significant portion of a city’s tax base, making it difficult to finance the increased service demands that the new development necessitates.

 

I have also seen cases where TIF's were blamed for leading to an area's gentrification.... Not an issue for Cleveland.

you guys make me smarter, Thanks!

    My port authority source had no knowledge of this arrangement at all, and there isn't too much in the way of development/construction that goes on in this town without him knowing about it or being directly involved.

    That being said, I hope this is one of those rare instances where he is out of the loop. We'll just have to wait and see.

interesting

 

hope theres big news on friday

Pesht isn't a vision or a plan. It has already been decided that it's going to happen. All they need to do now is publicly announce it.

I hope there is an announcement this Friday, but I think Stark has a tendency to get ahead of himself. Until they start ripping up surface parking lots, this is more vision than a happening. If Stark can announce a major tenant, then there is reason to believe this may be real, but it's unclear from where, or who that may be at this point.

There is so much work to be done on this project. I am not expecting much on Friday other than some amended strategy announcement.

The best news I could see out of this is that he would be negotiating with Eaton Corp to move their hdqts there. 

The best news I could see out of this is that he would be negotiating with Eaton Corp to move their hdqts there. 

never going to happen.

There is so much work to be done on this project. I am not expecting much on Friday other than some amended strategy announcement.

very likely.

Could the announcement have something to do with ICSC next week?  Maybe Stark has some meetings lined up with some high-profile prospects or is ready to sign some leases out in Vegas?

 

As an aside, my co-worker and I stopped at the Stark booth at ICSC one year just to pop in and say hello, but his "booth babes" thought we lowly CDC people weren't worthy to bask in his presence.  I've had a bit of a sour taste for him ever since.  Mitchell Schneider was the complete opposite.

Pesht isn't a vision or a plan. It has already been decided that it's going to happen. All they need to do now is publicly announce it.

 

i'll believe it when i see it

Pesht isn't a vision or a plan. It has already been decided that it's going to happen. All they need to do now is publicly announce it.

 

i'll believe it when i see it

 

Let's see what Fri brings.  I do sure-the-heck wish Stark was smaller on drama and larger on actual buildings and/or plans.

I'd just like him to be large on both.  The drama helps rally support, but he needs to follow through as well.

were the initial studies on infrastructure improvement ever completed or reported?  I thought that they were looking at water, sewer, electric, gas, etc. to see what would need upgraded to support the development - perhaps they are ready to tie a number to the improvements required?

Does anyone know if there is going to be an announcement Tommorow?  Hopefully there is because I surely hope that we all did not get too excited over some insde information.

i give more chance of jacobs building a new tallest on public square by 2010 than those parking lots to the west being filled 10 yrs from now

So you give Stark 0 %  chance , Because even if Jacobs started building in the Fall 08  it would take 3 years to complete which would take us to Fall 2011

^for once, I kind of agree with Ctown. I think that Stark has so many difficult details tied to his development that it makes it more difficult. He wants new streetscapes, streets, various different buildings. And he wants to TIF the world in order to make it all happen. I think that as long as Jacobs could land a major tenant or two, he'd have less hurdles to overcome than Stark.

^Agreed

Just heard back from the source. Deals are being done in Vegas at the convention so nothing will get reported until a week or two after they get back -- so it will be at least several weeks before we hear any announcement. Sorry to get you all excited prematurely (wait, that didn't sound the way I meant it!).

^ I'll be in Vegas, too.  If I hear anything through the grapevine from the other Cleveland folks attending, I'll report back.

KJP, any indication that there is anything to report, or even any announcement forthcoming.

Yes

If we've all waited this long, then we can stand to wait another couple of weeks.  I'm just glad to hear there actually is going to be an announcement that might help get this thing rolling. 

Wasn't this thread started by KJP teasing us to near pandemonium.....ah the memories

 

KJP, you can be a bad, bad, man

Why can't you be a sexy, svelt, long-legged, red-headed woman with big boobs saying

KJP, you can be a bad, bad, man

? ? ? ?

 

Hell, I'd be happy with just the "red-headed woman" part! 

If we've all waited this long, then we can stand to wait another couple of weeks.  I'm just glad to hear there actually is going to be an announcement that might help get this thing rolling. 

 

I think we said that last year

I'd just like him to be large on both.  The drama helps rally support, but he needs to follow through as well.

 

But all sizzle and no steak isn't very filling.

If we've all waited this long, then we can stand to wait another couple of weeks.  I'm just glad to hear there actually is going to be an announcement that might help get this thing rolling. 

 

I think we said that last year

 

Yeah, I kinda feel the same, but given KJP's information I'm willing to wait a little more. 

Revamped Stark website this week - in time for ICSC show. Has new rendering of Warehouse District (plus Crocker Park Phase III):

 

www.starkenterprises.com

"soho of the midwest"? vomit.

 

I hate the NY-ification of advertising: NY Style Lofts! Soho of Mansfield!

dwirthwein,

 

Welcome to UO!  Thanks for letting us know.

The one rendering I saw looked nice, was there more than one?

No, just the one rendering. I agree pope, there's hyping up a property with a little hyperbole and then there's "soho of the midwest", or "world-class signage".

 

Thanks for the update, dwirthwein and welcome to the forum!

WE WILL SEDUCE THE WORLD WITH THE MOST STUNNING CITY BLOCKS THIS SIDE OF PRAGUE

 

hyperbole?!  what hyperbole? 

WE WILL SEDUCE THE WORLD WITH THE MOST STUNNING CITY BLOCKS THIS SIDE OF PRAGUE

 

 

I'd be happy if he seduced us with the most stunning from-out-of-town new office tenant leases.

 

 

 

I'd be happy if he seduced us with the most stunning from out of town new office tenant leases.

 

Amen...

 

 

What I don't understand is why he's out in Vegas again? I thought he went last year .. is he trying to get concrete leases this year? Spread the word more? Gamble at the casinos?

 

I just really hope that he follows through on his vision because if he doesn't, he'll look like the biggest snake oil salesman ever. That couldn't look good for his business.

^as a developer, you need to be out there. People need to see that your development is still alive. It is not always about finishing off a deal. You start preliminary conversations/ you continue older conversations, etc. It would be very odd if he weren't out there.

Gotcha.

 

I mean, I'm encouraged by the fact that he's out there. I was just curious .. didn't understand, is all. Thanks.

WE WILL SEDUCE THE WORLD WITH THE MOST STUNNING CITY BLOCKS THIS SIDE OF PRAGUE

 

hyperbole?!  what hyperbole? 

 

I would have gone with litotes.

Alright, I pieced this together from the PDF on Stark's site:

 

 

A nicely designed modern office tower with some interesting living components and retail re-working of Frankfort Avenue? Yes. Most stunning city block this side of Prague? Yeah, I dunno about that.  :|

Perhaps he meant to stay the most stunning city block this side of a surface parking lot?

Either way, I would happily take that tower any day over a surface parking lot, and not just because it would replace a parking lot. I think it's a great rendering of a modern office building.

 

However .. his sales pitch is a TAD exaggerated. But we all knew it would be. :)

Why do I always think of Prof. Harold Hill, when I listen to Stark?

^as a developer, you need to be out there. People need to see that your development is still alive. It is not always about finishing off a deal. You start preliminary conversations/ you continue older conversations, etc. It would be very odd if he weren't out there.

 

Good call.  Sometimes things don't come to fruition until other things are in place first.  And retailers change their focus all the time.  So it's very possible to sign the leases that you weren't able to secure last year or the year before.

 

I'm out here now, and the mood is different from the previous two years that I've been to ICSC.  There's a ton of people, around 50k, but it seems like there's a reluctance to do a high volume of business.  I think a lot of people out here have the same sentiment of Mitchell Schneider in Sunday's PD article.  A lot of people I've spoken to have very viable projects that are already underway, but have little confidence that they'll generate the business that they would like.

 

The City of Cleveland and Cuyahoga County both have representatives here.  Cleveland usually sends one or two people, but did not last year.  This is the first I've seen someone from the county here.

 

Lastly, I've really heard nothing on the Cleveland news front yet. 

What I don't understand is why he's out in Vegas again? I thought he went last year .. is he trying to get concrete leases this year? Spread the word more? Gamble at the casinos?

 

I just really hope that he follows through on his vision because if he doesn't, he'll look like the biggest snake oil salesman ever. That couldn't look good for his business.

 

Don't forget he has a new phase of crocker park to fill and his other retail developments.

Alright, I pieced this together from the PDF on Stark's site:

 

 

A nicely designed modern office tower with some interesting living components and retail re-working of Frankfort Avenue? Yes. Most stunning city block this side of Prague? Yeah, I dunno about that.  :|

 

You'd think he's say "Budapest" instead of "Prague", but whatever.

 

I agree it's a pretty sharp rendering.  I'm kind of surprised none of the tenants in play have jumped on it [publicly]- it's so visible and centrally located.  But we know how complex these things are.

Lol, do my eyes deceive me, or is that a mini Breuer tower behind the glass building?  As for the glass building, maybe if Pesht doesn't come to fruition, K&D could use it (jk) :wink: