October 18, 200618 yr If they can't get a convention center or casino. I wouldn't be surprised if FCE started talking condos. Of course, it would only be talk.
October 18, 200618 yr If they can't get a convention center or casino. I wouldn't be surprised if FCE started talking condos. Of course, it would only be talk. BINGO! When I was in LA....a friend of a friend happen to live in a FCE loft in downtown LA. www.metlofts.com. Although they lack "personality", look poorly made, mass manufactured and the amenties suck (the pool was about 2' feet wide) ... I have to say, at least FCE has invested in somebodies downtown! Although its in investment, i would not want to see that type of crap from FC in Cleveland.
October 18, 200618 yr If they can't get a convention center or casino. I wouldn't be surprised if FCE started talking condos. Of course, it would only be talk. isn't that all they know how to do in cleveland, talk?
October 18, 200618 yr About 15-20 years ago, my parents knew an executive at Forest City who was fired for taking a risk with a project that ultimately worked out for the project and FCE -- but it sure didn't work for the executive! Apparently his superiors were miffed that they weren't fully informed of the risks involved with the project. He later told my parents that if his superiors were aware, they never would have approved it. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 20, 200618 yr Green City Blue Lake had good coverage of the Stark forum: Stark speaks about Pesht Bob Stark, the self-titled "poet developer" who created a more elegant Lifestyle Center at Crocker Park, is bringing together his grand plan for a $1 billion urban, mixed-use development that starts in Cleveland’s Warehouse District and extends to the Lakefront. “This is the Creative Urban Neighborhood,” Stark told an audience at Levin College on October 17. “I’m tired of suburbia. I’ve done my time. I want something that challenges me creatively, and I want to do it now.” http://www.gcbl.org/planning/warehouse-district/bob-starks-vision-for-the-warehouse-district/stark-speaks-about-pesht
October 22, 200618 yr This is amazing. Downtown will be totally off the hook! People will probably flock downtown once this is finally announced. I could totally see myself buying a place here!
November 21, 200618 yr Anything going on with Stark's project? I heard that "after the elections" we'd hear some news. Is this thing still alive?
November 22, 200618 yr Wha... ? Sorry, I was sleeping. <<yawn>> Let me get my slippers on and go into the other room to make some calls. On another note, I hope to learn more soon about that other project downtown that's been conflicting with others. I'll see if they're going to be more inclusive than they have been... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 22, 200618 yr Sorry. I just didn't want to tip my hand about that certain project we were talking about last week. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 22, 200618 yr no no no... see, KJP's cryptic posts are getting people riled up! There may or may not be news about another one of the existing big projects in the near future. Keep your eyes on UO... it all hits here first!
November 22, 200618 yr ok thats still confusing, i think this is the only major project proposed downtown unless the flats and stonebridge count in all that as well
November 22, 200618 yr Well, your definition of Downtown is a bit smaller than mine if you don't include the Flats, Avenue District, Convention Center, East 4th Street and the Euclid Corridor! (Just to keep this as confusing as possible)
November 22, 200618 yr Enough! I apologize for getting people crazy here. Besides, this project has little to do with Pesht anyway. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 22, 200618 yr Enough! I apologize for getting people crazy here. Besides, this project has little to do with Pesht anyway. oh..............you tease, you!!! :cool2:
November 22, 200618 yr what the? do i take we have another biggie project on the way? wow...i think? hmm. i guess we just have to wait and see.
November 22, 200618 yr to the best of my knowledge, limited as it may be, this is not a project that is new to UO. It should fit nicely into one of a number of existing threads!
November 22, 200618 yr hmmm... if its not new to UO then why is it such a secret?? is it more specific like an office tower? hotel? residential building?
November 22, 200618 yr hmmm... if its not new to UO then why is it such a secret?? is it more specific like an office tower? hotel? residential building? It's the location of KJPs new penthouse! Are you happy now?!
November 22, 200618 yr Kids, let's not waste bandwidth :-) clevelandskyscrapers.com Cleveland Skyscrapers on Instagram
November 22, 200618 yr It's the location of KJPs new penthouse! Are you happy now?! OK, is this simple enough for ya?? http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=1823.0 http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=7120.0 Additional messages on this subject should be posted at either of those two threads. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 24, 200618 yr ^you got it, pesht and wolstein's flats project are certainly looking very banks-ish. in other words don't hold your breath. so from kjp's links the mystery project that will move forward sounds like lighthouse landing?
November 24, 200618 yr I'm not sure I understand why such skepticism is rearing its ugly head so soon. I haven't followed the Banks situation closely, so I don't know how long that thing has been kicking around. And just because we're not hearing as much news publicly with Pesht or FEB in the last few months as we did in prior months, doesn't mean stuff isn't happening. They're into the nitty-gritty with both projects, which isn't necessarily newsworthy. Keep in mind, a large project like Crocker Park was first announced in 1999. Construction didn't start until 2004. We didn't hear the first details about Pesht until a year ago, though Stark's downtown inclination was revealed in prior months. Patience, people. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 24, 200618 yr I've got to agree with KJP. I really think momentum downtown is building with little projects all over the place. These big projects are going to take time. edit: I can only imagine how long this sort of thing takes to complete. I'm very positive about this!
December 4, 200618 yr From: http://www.gcmba.net/calendardesc.aspx?rid=48 Commercial Lunch Date: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 Time: 11:30-1:30 Location: Union Club Speaker: Bob Stark, Stark Enterprises Registration: 11:30, Lunch: 12:00 Members $30.00, Non Members $40.00, Students $25.00 Print the Luncheon Registration Form http://www.gcmba.net/LuncheonRegForm.pdf "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 4, 200618 yr (continued from above) Maybe Stark can provide more details like some he shared near the end of this article (population estimates, etc.)... _________________ This is a national publication out of Atlanta: http://www.shoppingcenterbusiness.com/articles/SEP06/story16.shtml Feature Article, September 2006 Cleveland’s Warehouse District Gets A Lift Stark Enterprises pitches development plan that will take Cleveland’s Warehouse District to the next level. Susan H. Fishman Cleveland’s historic Warehouse District has been a work in progress for about 10 to 15 years. It began with the conversion of historic warehouse buildings into loft living and working spaces on the upper floors and has grown to include cafes, restaurants, coffeehouses and clubs along its streetscape. But the Warehouse District is missing two key components to be a sustainable and ultimately successful urban neighborhood, says Bob Stark of Stark Enterprises, who is spearheading an initiative to take the Warehouse District to the next level. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 4, 200618 yr I saw mention of Lighthouse Landing in that article and it poses the question as to what stage that project is in presently?
December 4, 200618 yr Lighthouse Landing makes too much sense, both in terms of location and design. Hopefully, it will become a reality.
December 4, 200618 yr Stay tuned on Lighthouse Landing, or see it's thread there (or the Flats East Bank thread). "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 4, 200618 yr good find -- nice to see all that project info down in one concise article. how funny it had to come out via atlanta tho rather than a local outlet.
December 5, 200618 yr Interesting to hear what Stark considers the Warehouse District's market: Rocky River to Bratenahl. I think that's rather conservative, actually... Already people come in from Mentor, Akron and farther to go clubbing. If Stark's project happens, the area will have an even greater pull.
December 5, 200618 yr He told me his market was from Toledo to Erie to Canton. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 5, 200618 yr I wonder what the article's author's definition of "underway" is? The majority of the projects listed toward the end of the article are just pretty pictures.
December 6, 200618 yr I wonder if this is the origin of Stark's idea to extend the warehouse district's street grid to the lake "Designer Scott Richardson and Cleveland Institute of Art professor Daniel Cuffaro, whose idea also placed in the top five, want to create a huge land bridge over the railroad tracks from West Third Street to East 12th Street and to extend the grid of downtown streets all the way to the shoreline north of the football stadium." This quote references the design competition that was held as part of the lakefront plan http://www.cleveland.com/lakefront/index.ssf?/lakefront/more/1069497211181301.html
December 7, 200618 yr Interesting. Stark also claimed credit for lowering the Shoreway to street level through the Warehouse District. I told him "that was in the Lakefront Plan." He looked at me kinda funny! I don't care who gets the credit for this stuff as long as it gets done. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 7, 200618 yr Some of the info cited seems like wishful thinking at best. The 4k residential units along the ECP and the tripling of the daytime population in the WHD from 167k to 566k in 5 years... I;d love to see that happen, but that seems pretty unrealistic. What's the daytime population of all of downtown Cleveland today?
December 7, 200618 yr ^off the top of my head the CBD comes in at the low 100s in terms of workers. As for mind giving me a definition of CBD, sorry.
December 7, 200618 yr Some of the info cited seems like wishful thinking at best. The 4k residential units along the ECP and the tripling of the daytime population in the WHD from 167k to 566k in 5 years... I;d love to see that happen, but that seems pretty unrealistic. What's the daytime population of all of downtown Cleveland today? I don't know the stat, but Downtown Cleveland has the 7/8 largest daytime population in the county
December 7, 200618 yr after five seconds on google, i call "BS" on the Fairmount Properties Research: In addition, more than 380,000 commuters travel to downtown Cleveland on a daily basis, infusing local retail, restaurant and entertainment destinations with their disposable income. http://www.fairmountproperties.com/retail-developments.htm
December 7, 200618 yr That number is a little less than 3x the amount of downtown workers. I understand that a lot of people connect through downtown via RTA busses and trains, but I agree that the number seems too high. Are they counting cars that heading thru the innerbelt and on to places east (like PA and NY)??
December 7, 200618 yr Even so, the Inner Belt has 160,000 cars per day, and ODOT said a majority of that traffic was exiting at downtown ramps (some going downtown, some to UC, etc). That Fairmount Properties statistic is way out of line. I'd love to hear their explanation of it. Even if you include all the sporting events, CSU students and various conferences, it still doesn't add up. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 7, 200618 yr What, don't you see the infusion of disposable dollars on local businesses downtown? We got ourselves a Subway AND Quiznos downtown.
December 7, 200618 yr What, don't you see the infusion of disposable dollars on local businesses downtown? We got ourselves a Subway AND Quiznos downtown. Yeah but the Subway on public square closed, what does that say?
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