SCOPE:

I heard that Stark is moving his offices to the Warehouse District.

 

Details please.  What exactly did you hear and who is the source? 

SCOPE:

I heard that Stark is moving his offices to the Warehouse District.

 

Details please.  What exactly did you hear and who is the source? 

 

Also do you know if it was a move to an existing office building or one that doesn't exist yet?

His offices aren't that big. I doubt it would require new construction.

^True,there's probably enough vacancy in the CDB to house his offices, but I was trying to see if maybe he was moving into his own project in the future.

SCOPE:

I heard that Stark is moving his offices to the Warehouse District.

 

That is awesome news. This definitely can create new ideas/improvements since they'll be working there everyday.  Great to see his plans for the heart of it all.

I came up with an estimate based on the Warehouse District's masterplan for the area between West 3rd, West 6th, Superior and St. Clair. I posted that in a message somewhere in this thread. But when I used the search function on this site to find it, nothing came up. I think it was something like 400-500 units??

 

He's building 3 million sq. ft. of office/residential.  So unless that is going to be skewed very heavily office, I'd say that's a low number.  At a 50/50 office/residential mix and 1,000 sq ft a unit, he'd be building 1,500 units.  That's just a ballpark figure based on big round numbers of course.  But I put it out there because it gives an idea of the scale he's working on.

I'd like to double-check that 3-million square-foot figure. I can't do it right now, but I'd like to look at the phase one site and see if 3 million square feet of leasable space can fit into it while still conforming to the Warehouse District's masterplan. Stark says he wants to conform to the masterplan. His plan includes having several levels of parking sandwiched into the middle floors of buildings, while still staying under 4-6 floors at the northwest corner, rising to near 20 stories at the southeast corner.

There's also supposed to be a million sq ft of retail.  I don't know if those are "leasable" or "gross" numbers.

I heard that they are moving their 25 or so employees into a existing building ... West 3rd & St. Clair. 

I heard that they are moving their 25 or so employees into a existing building ... West 3rd & St. Clair. 

 

sky whats your source.  You know we like concrete details around here.  :-D

I heard that they are moving their 25 or so employees into a existing building ... West 3rd & St. Clair. 

 

they got that little building? i remember hearing that the owners wouldn't sell to Stark. So is he renting or did he buy it? If that is in fact the building, that raises some interesting questions.

^I *think* the holdout people were at the opposite side (West 6th and Superior) with the parking deck. The former "Titanic Tower" (heehee) at West 3rd and St. Clair has had their signage removed so interesting indeed...

^I thought that they both were holdouts. Maybe Stark has since bought them. I doubt he would choose to be a tenant in the building of a hold out landowner.

One way to find out.

It's Stark's!!!

And the other is still holding.

 

 

Yay! He finally bought "Titanic Tower"!! That's worth an article. I'm on it.

^I'm assuming, by Titanic Tower, you mean 1350 W. 3rd.  Is the plan to bulldoze this building?...

 

Wow, this is the 1st tangible evidence (to me, anyway), Stark really is more than just talk... This being the case, why can't the guy get going and start building something.  With the increasing strength of the WHD -- and, indeed, downtown in general -- something (mixed use, preferably) screams to be built on this land... As there ANY talk of an announcement?  A timetable?  Proposal before the Commissioners?  ... something?

Yes, his plan is to demolish it. I wonder if he might move his offices to that building first, then as he starts building stuff, he would move into one of those buildings. Then he would demolish the Titanic Tower. Just guessing.

 

But I was told he's waiting for the Port's island study to be done before making the formal announcement. He also was working on some TIF agreements with the city (for property/income taxes) and with the county for sales taxes. I'm not aware of where things stand regarding those negotiations/agreements.

^very good news, indeed... I can't wait.  To me, THIS is the BIG ONE.

I'm sorry, this is off topic, but... Holy crap, that might be the cheesiest web banner I've ever seen. That's akin to putting your picture on business cards. I love it.

You don't visit government websites very often, do you? ;) Especially sites for agencies/departments run by an elected official. Their pictures and names are always on them.

 

Return to Pesht....

I love the move downtown. "Putting your money where your mouth is", I think this dude is going to at least get the ball rolling in the WHD, if not leave a huge footprint himself. Now, how 'bout Scott Wolstein bringing DDR downtown (into his own project?) **KJP, has Wolstein ever mentioned anything like this? Has he been asked? I would think DDR would bring a sizable office presence downtown.

Also, how will the Port's interest in attracting container cargo affect their plans to move west of the river? Will that alter Stark's plan in any way?

 

^DDR would be great. But DDR is corporate where Stark is private. Its a bit more complicated with the corporate structure.

Nothing yet from Wolstein regarding any move.

 

As for the port, see:

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=2591.msg68612#msg68612

 

and

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=2591.msg70057#msg70057

^^^And DDR is not developing the East Bank, Wolstein is through this his Wolstein Group.  DDR is a publicly traded company that just built a massive second headquarters building in Beachwood.  It would be nice if Wolstein could influence the location decision of the company of which he is the CEO, but I think it would be a conflict of interest for him to try to move DDR to a location that he privately owns and would profit from.

^^^That makes sense. One can hope, though.

**I was in Detroit last week for a night and caught last friday's Detroit News; in it was Dan Gilbert's announcement that he was going to consolidate Quicken's HQ in downtown Detroit. The interesting part of the announcement, however, was his statement that he wasn't coming down there by himself; the deal was contingent on him bringing other companies downtown with him. It was going to be a "package deal". I had to read it again. What if Peter Lewis were to do something like that? What other suburban hq's would be viable candidates to come downtown? Hyland Software? Moen? DDR? Who else?

I don't think they are a "viable candidate" to move downtown since they just expanded in Mayfield Hts. but I would like to see Parker Hannifin

I came up with an estimate based on the Warehouse District's masterplan for the area between West 3rd, West 6th, Superior and St. Clair. I posted that in a message somewhere in this thread. But when I used the search function on this site to find it, nothing came up. I think it was something like 400-500 units??

 

He's building 3 million sq. ft. of office/residential.  So unless that is going to be skewed very heavily office, I'd say that's a low number.  At a 50/50 office/residential mix and 1,000 sq ft a unit, he'd be building 1,500 units.  That's just a ballpark figure based on big round numbers of course.  But I put it out there because it gives an idea of the scale he's working on.

 

I found this message of mine. Note that a hotel was considered part of the WHD masterplan. If you take the number of hotel rooms and replace them with housing units, the total for the Superblock/Powerblock (Stark's assumed Phase One) would be a shade more than 1,000 housing units...

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=2591.msg67705#msg67705

 

In the Historic Warehouse District's revised masterplan (2002), it proposes for the Powerblock surrounded by W.3rd, W.6th, Superior and St. Clair (they call it Block 8 ) five buildings, a mid-block parking deck, plus an underground parking deck for an office building in the adjacent "Jacobs Block" on Public Square.

 

Here is a breakdown of their proposal, per building:

> 8 story building with five facing St. Clair, 346 housing units, 50,500 square feet of retail, 275 structured parking spaces;

> three more buildings (plus interior parking deck) within block, 20 stories, 12 stories, and 7 stories with 5 facing the street, 242 total housing units, 9,100 square feet of retail, 760 structured parking spaces;

> Hotel facing Superior, 10 stories, 430 hotel rooms, 66,000 square feet of meeting rooms, 59,800 square feet of retail.

> Underground parking deck off Superior for office building in neighboring "Jacobs Block" and other uses - 1,600 parking spaces.

 

I don't think they are a "viable candidate" to move downtown since they just expanded in Mayfield Hts. but I would like to see Parker Hannifin

 

Sorry to say, it won't happen.  I was at Parker last month, they're just opening up a huge new wing on their campus.  They're there to stay.

 

Dan Gilbert's the man. I think we're lucky to have him here. I hope he can hope he can help stir the pot around here.

^^ Wait, I'm confused.  How is Dan Gilbert helping us?  by setting an example in D-town?

Dan Gilbert's the man. I think we're lucky to have him here. I hope he can hope he can help stir the pot around here.

 

WHAT?  :wtf: :wtf:

^well, I'd love to see someone here do what Dan is doing in Detroit.

KJP, I thought Phase I included more than just the superblock.  I thought it included land on the east side of W. 9th between St. Clair and Frankfort and the vacant lot on the west side of W. 9th St.

^well, I'd love to see someone here do what Dan is doing in Detroit.

 

Just because we didn't steal the headquarters doesn't mean we're not reaping the rewards. He brought 600 high-paying jobs to downtown Cleveland that didn't exist three years ago. If you average $60,000 per person salary, that's $36 million of payroll each year. I don't see why that can't grow or we can't take on some other capabilities. Just because we didn't get the whole deal doesn't mean we can't be Quicken's second home.

 

I like Gilbert because he's bold and creative. He thinks BIG and he understands the importance of details. Remember when he came here? He brought the whole office from Detroit to Cleveland to party. He also seems to be willing to wield his power for the betterment of the community. I am very hopeful he's setting an excellent example for the business people around here who seem to be clueless.

 

I think it's an excellent opportunity to have a powerful CEO in Detroit and Cleveland. We're so close, we should think of teaming up on stuff, and he could be that bridge.

Some info on Dan Gilbert and then back to the topic...

 

"Dan became majority owner of the Cavaliers in March, 2005. In the short period of time he has owned the team, he has led a complete overhaul of the basketball front office, coaching staff, player personnel, and game presentation.

 

In addition, he has led the ownership group’s $30 million investment in renovations at the Quicken Loans Arena. These investments include over 20,000 new seats, state-of-the-art scoreboards, video systems, sound systems, new lighting technology, arena graphics, signage, security, player locker rooms, new partner entertainment facilities, as well as brand new administrative offices for the entire Cavalier and arena business teams.

 

Dan has also led the investment and planning of a new $20-25 million player development center, named Cleveland Clinic Courts. The facility is currently under construction and is located in nearby Independence, Ohio. It will provide the Cavaliers with the highest quality and most advanced year-round practice and training center in the NBA.

 

Most importantly, Dan has instilled a championship caliber culture throughout the entire Cavaliers organization. This unique anti-bureaucratic, common-sense, people empowering approach is the foundation for the rejuvenation of the franchise and arena.

 

The fan base and corporate community have responded strongly with a high level of confidence in the direction of the team on and off the court. The Cavaliers currently rank near the top of the league in revenue per capita, making them one of the most successful business operations in the NBA.

 

Quicken Loans recently opened a new Internet Home Lending Center in downtown Cleveland. Once fully operational, the nearly 50,000 square foot operation will house 350 new high-paying mortgage banking jobs which are expected to create more than $30 million in annual compensation for its Cleveland staff.

 

Dan's companies employ more than 5,000 people. Quicken Loans Inc. has been ranked a Top 15 "Best Place to Work" in America by FORTUNE magazine for the past three years and ranked the #1 place to work for technology employees in the United States by Computerworld Magazine two years in a row in 2005 and 2006."  -nba.com

 

Also...

 

"He then purchased the American Hockey League's Utah Grizzlies and brought them to Cleveland, and renamed them the Lake Erie Monsters."  -wiki

 

 

Now back on topic:

 

Based on Eaton and Crocker, I'm also excited about the potential architecture.  Stark does seem to care about both what it looks like and as well as making money.

 

 

 

 

 

I was hopeful, but realistic about Gilbert/Quicken. 

 

I love the kind of owner he is for the Cavs -- Lord knows, we need a rich, aggressive, young, competent bottom-line guy.  The absence of such an owner has been a big reason we haven't won anything since 1964 – I think that w/ LeBron and Gilbert as owner, the drought will end... But I figured he'd consolidate Quicken in downtown Detroit.  It's his hometown; it's where he made his billions; where his connections and business relationships are.  I'm sure there was some grumbling that he left town to buy and rebuild a nearby, rival NBA team. 

 

Owning a rival team is one thing (and it would probably be contentious was it not for the fact the Pistons are a championship club and we’re still trying to get there) But to ask Dan to steal away thousands of jobs from a town more distressed than ours (forget the much touted, Cleveland-leading poverty study), esp from a downtown only beginning to show life – not nearly as strong residentially and entertainment/activity-wise as Cleveland’s -- would make him a turncoat pariah in his hometown... and that would be lot for us to of Gilbert.

 

I’d love Quicken’s HQ here, but I’m content with a elite, financially competitive basketball team as the Cavs are, today, under Gilbert.

 

^Oh yeah, ... I forgot about the LE monsters.  Hockey's not my cup of tea, but you've gotta respect Gilbert's trying to raise interest here and more activity downtown -- Can't hurt the economy.

Forget the much touted, Cleveland-leading poverty study.

 

FYI, according to that study, Detroit's poverty rate was statistically indistinguishable from Cleveland's, which only reinforces your point. 

KJP, I thought Phase I included more than just the superblock.  I thought it included land on the east side of W. 9th between St. Clair and Frankfort and the vacant lot on the west side of W. 9th St.

 

It might, but I seem to recall the superblock is Phase 1.  Don't trust my memory, though. Not anymore.

 

Also, neither Stark, Asher, Khouri/Kassouf or any other Stark partners own properties west of West 6th and south of St. Clair. At least not since the last time I checked some months ago.

 

On ABC's telecast of the Cavs-NJ game today, the analysts mentioned how the Cavalier organization has become of the most professional/classiest organizations in the league.  I thought that was pretty special! 

I wasnt' really sure where to put this.....

 

 

RESIDENTIAL REAL ESTATE

A Grand Arcade place to live

 

By ZACHARY LEWIS

 

6:00 am, May 7, 2007

 

When Barry Nelson walks through his downtown loft in the Grand Arcade, he sees nothing but choices he made. Every detail, from its wood floors to its sleek metal ceiling fans, reflects his taste.

 

Article Removed

"Loft life may not be for everyone, but there’s still a strong contingency of people like Mr. Nelson who are willing to give it a try"

 

Suburban cul-de-sacs aren't for everyone either, but you wouldn't read this sort of disclaimer in an article about someone living that way.  Why the implication that loft living is an oddity that one can "try"?

^well said.

Loft-living. That's too edgy! Next thing you know, people wil be smoking crack pipes, playing bongos and talking about Rothko on their stoops!

Many who might move downtown are seduced by the suburbs and the agents who sell there. Mr. Nelson was nearly one of them. When he moved to Cleveland, his real estate agent told him most people don’t live downtown and advised him to look elsewhere.

 

That real estate agent should be flogged!!

^ i agree to a point. realtors of course only push what they have as their own listings. if all they had were suburban real estate listings that's all that guy was gonna hear about and they would even go out of their way to downplay everything else. so what we need are more realty agencies like pure pimping downtown. i hope that will change for the better as soon as the avenue goes up, wolstein at least gets it going and more housing units come online.

Ok fellow urbanites, chew on this: Last night a member of the Port Authority told our group that A) the ferry service/terminal to Canada is picking up serious steam from the Canadian side and they want Cleveland as the U.S. terminal. The Canadians felt that "Cleveland was the best location for this on the lake."

.....And the reason I'm posting this on the Pesht thread; B) The PA is not focusing on this "port island" scheme any longer; they have their eyes on Burke. They have come to the conclusion that the port island will be too expensive and not a timely, realistic option for them. This PA member gave stats on Burke's financial performance (not good) to the city and flight activity. Only about 3,000 of Burke's 86,000 flights were commercial, revenue-generating activity. The rest were training and recreational. The Burke site offers quick access to the highway, access to rail, and plenty of room for potential container/intermodal operations. The ferry terminal and staging area would be located there as well.

The PA's relocation to Burke is much more realistic than the port island and could happen in a matter of years, not decades.

I believe the implications of this plan regarding Pesht are obvious. This is going to happen. :-D

Pretty good stuff, huh?

I dont know what this has to do with pesht (this subject does have its own thread) and i bet the majority of those 3000 revenue generating flights are government related.

 

 

Can we keep this on subject about pesht and discuss the ferry in its own thread?

^^^Correct me if I'm wrong, MTS, but why is the Port looking to vacate their current location in the first place? Isn't this location (the port) part of Stark's plan?

        In my humble opinion, if Burke is to be used for anything other than an airport, I would think the PA working with the city could get this done; even if it means utilizing the waterfront section of this land as the port and leaving the airport as is. There is a lot of vacant land(fill) to the north and east of the airport proper.

        The bottom line is that the Port is looking to make their land available for development, and sooner rather than later. That's encouraging.