If they accuse your kid, accuse theirs too. Or if they have money, just sue the sh!t out of them...

 

 

False accusations should result in immediate castration and seizure of all assets. Call it a wash.

On 6/3/2022 at 4:15 PM, Boomerang_Brian said:

Children shouldn’t be subjected to genital inspection to play sports. It’s important to note that OHSA already had a policy that ensured a transgender girl wouldn’t be able to compete until after transitioning. (D&S posted the relevant policy in the other thread discussing this, reposted below)
 

 

 

When I was playing ball, we had to have a physical, and "turn your head and cough" was definitely a part of it.  This is redundant at best and I would agree it's way too easy to abuse.

30 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

 

When I was playing ball, we had to have a physical, and "turn your head and cough" was definitely a part of it.  

What was the purpose of that procedure?

GOP Legislation Requiring Transgender “Genital Exams” Deemed as Extreme Overreach by Ohio Doctors

 

Adding to the criticism from the medical field about bills attempting to restrict transgender health and inclusion in Ohio, doctors Thursday expressed grave concerns about a bill that would ban trans youth from participating in their chosen sports.

 

During a press conference led by Democratic state representatives, Dr. Anita Somani held up a speculum, used for vaginal exams, as she explained the details of procedures that could be required of children if a coach, official or even a parent questions the gender of child on a sports team.

 

“It’s invasive and uncomfortable even for adults who have a trusting relationship with their physician,” Somani said.

 

She said the requirements in House Bill 151, the bill that would ban trans youth from sports and allow gender verification regulations, go beyond typical sports physical examinations would be “legally forcing children to undergo medically unnecessary exams.”

 

More below:

https://columbusunderground.com/gop-legislation-requiring-transgender-genital-exams-deemed-as-extreme-overreach-by-ohio-doctors-ocj1/

1 hour ago, LibertyBlvd said:

What was the purpose of that procedure?

 

Check for hernia.   But it definitely verified gender.

On 6/3/2022 at 3:29 PM, LibertyBlvd said:

It is not a non-issue. Biological males should not be competing with biological females.  

We don't need to legislate EVERYTHING that citizens "should not" do.  You understand that right?

On 6/13/2022 at 3:13 PM, E Rocc said:

 

Check for hernia.   But it definitely verified gender.

What if one of your teammates had both?  

Ohio AG Dave Yost Files Lawsuit to Allow LGBTQ+ Discrimination

 

Ohio Attorney General Dave Yost filed a lawsuit Tuesday against the Biden administration, joining Ohio with 21 other states to protest guidance that prohibits discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender identity.

 

On May 5, the U.S. Department of Agriculture’s (USDA) Food and Nutrition Service (FNS) announced that they would be interpreting the prohibition on discrimination found in Title IX to include discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender identity.

 

Officials explained that the guidance would  promote nutrition security, particularly in the LGBTQ+ community who, according to the U.S. Census Bureau’s Household Pulse Survey, is experiencing food insecurity at a 6% higher rate compared to non-LGBTQ+ populations.

 

“USDA is committed to administering all its programs with equity and fairness, and serving those in need with the highest dignity. A key step in advancing these principles is rooting out discrimination in any form – including discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender identity,” said Secretary of Agriculture Tom Vilsack. “At the same time, we must recognize the vulnerability of the LGBTQI+ communities and provide them with an avenue to grieve any discrimination they face. We hope that by standing firm against these inequities we will help bring about much-needed change.”

 

More below:

https://columbusunderground.com/ohio-ag-dave-yost-files-lawsuit-to-allow-lgbtq-discrimination-bf1/

 

Ohio Lawmakers Ranked Based on Equality

 

Equality Ohio released their 2022 Ohio Lawmaker Equality Scorecard on Tuesday, grading all Ohio state senators and representatives.

 

The grades represent a Final Ally Score, which was determined by averaging the Solidarity Score (sponsorship & voting record for bills that affect inclusion, equity & access for all races, genders, religions, income, age, or other demographic identifier) and Queer Score (sponsorship & voting record for bills specific to LGBTQ+ issues).

 

There also was a Boost, which could raise or lower a legislator’s score by a full letter grade or more if the legislator made noteworthy public statements & actions related to LGBTQ+ issues.

 

More below:

https://columbusunderground.com/ohio-lawmakers-ranked-based-on-equality-bf1/

Ohio Cities Banning Conversion Therapy While State Efforts Stall

 

As a statewide ban on conversion therapy has stalled out in the Ohio legislature, several local municipalities have taken steps to outlaw the discredited practice within their city’s limits.

 

Conversion or reparative therapy is any attempt to change a person’s sexual orientation, gender identity or gender expression. The universally discredited practice — denounced by every major medical and psychological organization — has been shown to increase suicidal ideation, depression and illegal drug use.

 

Rep. Mary Lightbody (D-Westerville) calls the practice “wrong and cruel” and introduced HB 420 on September 14, 2021. The bill would prevent health care professionals from using the practice on Ohio’s vulnerable youth.

 

More below:

https://columbusunderground.com/ohio-cities-banning-conversion-therapy-while-state-efforts-stall-bf1/

 

Legislation to Protect LGBTQ+ Ohioans Gets First Senate Hearing

 

Last Wednesday, the Ohio Fairness Act (Senate Bill 119) received its first hearing in the Ohio Senate.

 

First introduced in 2008, the bill would protect LGBTQ+ Ohioans from discrimination in housing, employment and public accommodations based on gender identity and sexual orientation.

 

State Senator Nickie J. Antonio (D-Lakewood) — the first out LGBTQ+ person to serve in the Ohio state legislature — has sponsored a version of the bill every year since she was first elected in 2011.

 

More than a decade later, statewide protections for LGBTQ+ people have garnered more bipartisan support than ever before.

 

Last month, legislators heard public testimony in the Ohio House from a surprising co-sponsor of the bill: conservative State Rep. Brett Hillyer (R-Uhrichsville).

 

More below:

https://columbusunderground.com/legislation-to-protect-lgbtq-ohioans-gets-first-senate-hearing-bf1/

 

Ohio Board of Education Passes Anti-LGBTQ+ Resolution

 

Over the past four months, hundreds of LGBTQ+ students, allies, educators, healthcare professionals and community leaders have stood before the Ohio State Board of Education.

 

Each testified against a sweeping anti-transgender resolution that would officially reject Title IX language designed to protect LGBTQ+ students from discrimination in Ohio’s public schools.

 

Last Tuesday — in a move that defies mainstream research and guidance concerning LGBTQ+ youth — board members voted to pass the resolution 11-7.

 

The “Resolution to Support Parents, Schools, and Districts in Rejecting Harmful, Coercive, and Burdensome Gender Identity Policies” was first proposed by conservative Madison County State School Board member Brendan Shea in September.

 

More below:

https://columbusunderground.com/ohio-board-of-education-passes-anti-lgbtq-resolution-bf1/

 

56 minutes ago, ColDayMan said:

Ohio Board of Education Passes Anti-LGBTQ+ Resolution

 

Over the past four months, hundreds of LGBTQ+ students, allies, educators, healthcare professionals and community leaders have stood before the Ohio State Board of Education.

 

Each testified against a sweeping anti-transgender resolution that would officially reject Title IX language designed to protect LGBTQ+ students from discrimination in Ohio’s public schools.

 

Last Tuesday — in a move that defies mainstream research and guidance concerning LGBTQ+ youth — board members voted to pass the resolution 11-7.

 

The “Resolution to Support Parents, Schools, and Districts in Rejecting Harmful, Coercive, and Burdensome Gender Identity Policies” was first proposed by conservative Madison County State School Board member Brendan Shea in September.

 

More below:

https://columbusunderground.com/ohio-board-of-education-passes-anti-lgbtq-resolution-bf1/

 

This ought to stir up some good hateful GOP rhetoric in the legislature!  

2 hours ago, Cleburger said:

This ought to stir up some good hateful GOP rhetoric in the legislature!  

 

This stuff has been percolating since the Bush Era; we all forget the institutionalized racism, the idiocy, and the cronyism because it was overshadowed by what was to come. The backlash may have opened the door for a historical first like Obama. But now everyone thinks of Bush as a sweet old Grandpa who does paintings of his feet. Bush left the Republican party weak, which I celebrated at first, until I saw the power vacuum filled up with Maga.

Some good news...

 

Trans Youth Sports Ban Voted Down in Ohio House

 

When the Ohio House voted down HB 151 at 2:30am last Thursday morning, the issue of banning trans youth from athletic participation was put to rest for the time being.

 

After the bill passed out of Senate committee last Wednesday afternoon, the full Ohio Senate passed HB 151 at 10:30pm after Republicans added more than 2,000 pages of education reform to the bill, gutting the powers of state Board of Education. They also added an amendment that prohibited schools from discriminating against a student who has not had a COVID vaccine.

 

In their 2:30am vote, the House did not ratify the Senate’s changes. There has been significant resistance in the past few weeks to the proposed education reform, particularly from conservative Ohioans who thought the bill would restrict homeschooling.

 

Ohio lawmakers had previously said this would be their last working week of 2022, so it appears likely that HB 151 is dead. For now.

 

More below:

https://columbusunderground.com/trans-youth-sports-ban-voted-down-in-ohio-house-bf1/

 

New Ohio House Committee Assignments Aren’t Looking Good for LGBTQ+ Legislation

 

The members of the Ohio House of Representatives were given their committee assignments last week.

 

With a Republican supermajority, there was zero chance that a sudden march to equality — in the form of the quixotic Fairness Act? — would plow ahead.

 

Still, the surprise defeat of a hugely-conservative candidate for Ohio House Speaker by a still-pretty-conservative Ohio House Speaker at least provided a sliver of hope.

 

Then the committee assignments were released and that sliver of hope became even more slivery.

 

More below:

https://columbusunderground.com/new-ohio-house-committee-assignments-arent-looking-good-for-lgbtq-legislation-bf1/

 

This thread is so depressing. I was just chatting with a colleague who is planning to move to Michigan and commute to Ohio because the environment - social and political - is just so poor up here in the Northwest. 

Ohio Ranked as “High Priority to Achieve Basic Equality” in Annual HRC Report

 

The Human Rights Campaign Foundation and the Equality Federation Institute released their 9th annual State Equality Index (SEI) this week.

 

The SEI is a comprehensive report that groups states into several broad categories regarding the type of advocacy that occurs there and details statewide laws and policies that affect LGBTQ+ people and their families.

 

Ohio was rated “High Priority to Achieve Basic Equality.”

 

States in this category have advocates focusing on raising support for basic LGBTQ+ equality, such as non-discrimination protections in employment, housing and public accommodations, all of which Ohio lacks. These states are most likely to have religious refusal or other anti-LGBTQ+ laws. Advocates often further LGBTQ+ equality by focusing on municipal protections for LGBTQ+ people or opposing negative legislation that targets the LGBTQ+ community.

 

More below:

https://columbusunderground.com/ohio-ranked-as-high-priority-to-achieve-basic-equality-in-annual-hrc-report-bf1/

 

Hilliard Schools Files to Dismiss Anti-LGBTQ+ Lawsuit Files by Parent Group

 

Hilliard City Schools filed a motion last week asking a federal judge to dismiss an anti-LGBTQ+ lawsuit brought against the district by eight parents earlier this month.

 

In the filing, Jessica Philemond, a Columbus attorney specializing in representing school districts, argued that the parents lawsuit was “riddled with careless mistakes” that would lead any judge to dismiss the case outright.

 

“The (parents’) complaint consists of thread-bare assertions, innuendo, rumor, and spurious legal conclusions,” the school district argued.

 

More below:

https://columbusunderground.com/hilliard-schools-files-to-dismiss-anti-lgbtq-lawsuit-files-by-parent-group-bf1/

 

Ohio Republicans Introduce Trans “Sports Ban” Legislation

 

A bill to keep trans athletes from participating in women’s sports in college and youth athletics was introduced in the Ohio House on Wednesday.

 

State Rep. Jena Powell’s House Bill 6 came to the House Higher Education Committee, where Powell spent her testimony emphasizing the biological differences between males and females, and decrying a “biological male” ending up with a gold medal or championship in a women’s sport.

 

“I am passionate about this issue because we cannot allow girls’ dreams of being a gold medal athlete to be crushed by biological males stealing their opportunities,” Powell told the committee.

 

The bill requires separate single-sex athletic teams and allows athletes to file a civil lawsuit “if the participant is deprived of an athletic opportunity or suffers harm as a result of a violation of the bill’s single-sex participation requirements or if the participant is subject to retaliation for reporting such a violation,” according to an analysis by the Legislative Service Commission.

 

More below:

https://columbusunderground.com/ohio-republicans-introduce-trans-sports-ban-legislation-ocj1/

 

These people's obsession with endlessly attacking such a small minority is disgusting. Last year there were what, 2 trans athletes in all of Ohio? 

 

OHSAA has already adopted a common sense policy. There's no need for the legislature to involve themselves at all except for virtue signaling to bigots who have never met a trans person in their life - The result of which continues to pile hate and discrimination on one our state's most vulnerable group of kids

 

Also many adults continue to take recreational youth sports way too seriously, likely because it was their personal life peak. Sad all around

 

Edited March 11, 20232 yr by NW24HX

Public Testifies on Ohio Transgender Sports Ban Legislation

 

On Wednesday, Rep. Jena Powell (R-Arcanum) gave sponsor testimony on House Bill 6, which would ban transgender girls and women across the state from competing in team sports from kindergarten through college.

 

The bill was introduced last month as part of Ohio House Republicans’ list of priorities for the 135th General Assembly.

 

In past legislative sessions, Powell has attempted to pass the bill — dubbed the “Save Women’s Sports Act” — without vetting it through an assigned committee.

 

More below:

https://columbusunderground.com/public-testifies-on-ohio-transgender-sports-ban-legislation-bf1/

 

Ohio GOP Proposing Anti-Trans Day

 

Last week, Representative Gary Click (R-Vickery), a Baptist pastor, submitted legislation to designate March 12 as an LGBTQ-related observance throughout Ohio. 

...

Click is the primary sponsor of HB 68, a bill that would deny gender-affirming care to Ohio’s youth.

 

Last year, a similar bill – HB 454 – trudged through the legislative process, but never made it out of committee. For this new general session, Click has said that HB 68 is a priority for the Ohio Republicans who hold the supermajority in the Ohio House. 

...

The concept of detransitioning – defined as stopping or reversing gender transition, which can include medical treatment or changes in appearance, or both – lies at the core of Click’s arguments in favor of HB 68. 

 

At a February press conference introducing the bill, Click argued that 85% to 95% of trans youth will outgrow those feelings. 

 

More below:

https://columbusunderground.com/ohio-gop-proposing-anti-trans-day-bf1/

 

1 hour ago, ColDayMan said:

Ohio GOP Proposing Anti-Trans Day

 

Last week, Representative Gary Click (R-Vickery), a Baptist pastor, submitted legislation to designate March 12 as an LGBTQ-related observance throughout Ohio. 

...

Click is the primary sponsor of HB 68, a bill that would deny gender-affirming care to Ohio’s youth.

 

Last year, a similar bill – HB 454 – trudged through the legislative process, but never made it out of committee. For this new general session, Click has said that HB 68 is a priority for the Ohio Republicans who hold the supermajority in the Ohio House. 

...

The concept of detransitioning – defined as stopping or reversing gender transition, which can include medical treatment or changes in appearance, or both – lies at the core of Click’s arguments in favor of HB 68. 

 

At a February press conference introducing the bill, Click argued that 85% to 95% of trans youth will outgrow those feelings. 

 

More below:

https://columbusunderground.com/ohio-gop-proposing-anti-trans-day-bf1/

 

There's no hate like Christian love

Ohio House Passes Transgender Athlete Ban

 

The controversial bill that would prevent trans athletes from participating in Ohio women’s sports and youth athletics passed by a 8-6 vote in the Higher Education Committee on Wednesday morning. 

 

All five Democrats on the committee and state Rep. Gayle Manning, R- North Ridgeville, voted against the bill. 

 

State Rep. Jena Powell, R-Arcanum, introduced House Bill 6 in February, dubbed “Save Women’s Sports Act” saying it’s a fairness issue. 

 

“All that girls are asking for is a fair shot, and to be given the chance to play and win by the rules in the sports that they love,” Powell said in a news release. “That opportunity is being ripped from them by biological males.”

 

HB 6 would require separate single-sex athletic teams and allows athletes to file a civil lawsuit “if the participant is deprived of an athletic opportunity or suffers harm as a result of a violation of the bill’s single-sex participation requirements or if the participant is subject to retaliation for reporting such a violation,” according to an analysis by the nonpartisan Legislative Service Commission.

 

There are only six transgender high school female student athletes in Ohio, and of those, only three have been approved to play in the current spring sports season, the OCJ previously reported.

 

Currently, if a trans girl wants to play on a team with cis girls, she must go through hormone treatments for at least one year or show no physical or  physiological advantages, according to the Ohio High School Athletic Association.

 

The bill, which now awaits further consideration in the House, has received lots of pushback from parents, students, activists and clergy members. 

 

Twenty-one legislatures across the country have enacted their own versions of the Save Women’s Sports Act. 

 

More below:

https://columbusunderground.com/ohio-house-passes-transgender-athlete-ban-ocj1/

 

In case anyone hadn't heard: The ODP just created an official Pride Caucus.

https://thebuckeyeflame.com/2023/05/01/the-ohio-democratic-party-is-putting-power-behind-creating-a-statewide-pride-caucus/

Ohio GOP Introduces New Transgender Bathroom Ban Legislation

 

A bill banning transgender students from being able to use the bathroom and locker room that aligns with their gender identity was recently introduced by a pair of Ohio Republican legislators. 

 

House Bill 183 — introduced by state Rep. Beth Lear, R-Galena, and state Rep. Adam Bird, R-New Richmond — would require K-12 schools and colleges to mandate that students could only use the bathroom or locker room that matches their sex assigned at birth. It would also prohibit schools from allowing students to share overnight accommodations with the opposite sex. 

 

“No school shall permit a member of the female biological sex to use a student restroom, locker room, changing room, or shower room that has been designated by the school for the exclusive use of the male biological sex,” the bill’s language reads. “No school shall permit a member of the male biological sex to use a student restroom, locker room, changing room, or shower room that has been designated by the school for the exclusive use of the female biological sex.”

 

Lear did not respond to the OCJ’s request for comment. Bird, who was unable to speak to the OCJ, posted on Twitter that the bill is about protecting children.

 

“Protecting them from what?” Erin Upchurch, Executive Director of Kaleidoscope Youth Center, said in response. “Nobody is being protected with this bill.”

 

The bill says this would not prohibit a school from having single-occupancy facilities. It also says this would not apply to someone helping a person with a disability or a child younger than 10 years old being assisted by a parent, guardian, or family member.

 

Other states like Kentucky, Tennessee, and Iowa have laws that ban K-12 transgender students from using bathrooms that match their gender identity. Kansas and Florida both recently passed laws with bathroom bans that go beyond schools. 

 

More below:

https://columbusunderground.com/ohio-gop-introduces-new-transgender-bathroom-ban-legislation-ocj1/

 

4 hours ago, ColDayMan said:

Ohio GOP Introduces New Transgender Bathroom Ban Legislation

 

A bill banning transgender students from being able to use the bathroom and locker room that aligns with their gender identity was recently introduced by a pair of Ohio Republican legislators. 

 

House Bill 183 — introduced by state Rep. Beth Lear, R-Galena, and state Rep. Adam Bird, R-New Richmond — would require K-12 schools and colleges to mandate that students could only use the bathroom or locker room that matches their sex assigned at birth. It would also prohibit schools from allowing students to share overnight accommodations with the opposite sex. 

 

“No school shall permit a member of the female biological sex to use a student restroom, locker room, changing room, or shower room that has been designated by the school for the exclusive use of the male biological sex,” the bill’s language reads. “No school shall permit a member of the male biological sex to use a student restroom, locker room, changing room, or shower room that has been designated by the school for the exclusive use of the female biological sex.”

 

Lear did not respond to the OCJ’s request for comment. Bird, who was unable to speak to the OCJ, posted on Twitter that the bill is about protecting children.

 

“Protecting them from what?” Erin Upchurch, Executive Director of Kaleidoscope Youth Center, said in response. “Nobody is being protected with this bill.”

 

The bill says this would not prohibit a school from having single-occupancy facilities. It also says this would not apply to someone helping a person with a disability or a child younger than 10 years old being assisted by a parent, guardian, or family member.

 

Other states like Kentucky, Tennessee, and Iowa have laws that ban K-12 transgender students from using bathrooms that match their gender identity. Kansas and Florida both recently passed laws with bathroom bans that go beyond schools. 

 

More below:

https://columbusunderground.com/ohio-gop-introduces-new-transgender-bathroom-ban-legislation-ocj1/

 

 

 

Aside from the GOP's cruel and cynical politics with all that they're doing... their BS social crusade is in no way helping a state that needs to attract business and talent. I guess that they don't care. They push hate in this gerrymandered state knowing that's how they maintain power and can grift, but jfc. This bad on so many levels.

10 minutes ago, ohpenn said:

 

 

Aside from the GOP's cruel and cynical politics with all that they're doing... their BS social crusade is in no way helping a state that needs to attract business and talent. I guess that they don't care. They push hate in this gerrymandered state knowing that's how they maintain power and can grift, but jfc. This bad on so many levels.

It has already been established that these bills do not help nor will they deter people from moving to Ohio. People do not come to a state because they have a bathroom bill nor do they move away for the same reason. Ohio's struggling job issues transcend any social issue debate. 

Edited May 30, 20232 yr by Brutus_buckeye

5 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

It has already been established that these bills do not help nor will they deter people from moving to Ohio. People do not come to a state because they have a bathroom bill nor do they move away for the same reason. Ohio's struggling job issues transcend any social issue debate. 

 

Ohio's issues transcend this, yes, but this in no way helps. This isn't 1990, or even 2000. Younger professional Americans have strong views that disagree with these policies, greatly. Does that mean they wouldn't accept a job offer? Maybe not, but Ohio needs people to look to Ohio as a place to want to live and help build a pipeline. I don't see how this helps. All things being equal, states that pull this s**t, are hurting themselves.

Is this the most important thing for our state to do?  To bully its vulnerable citizens?  This is sad, pointless cruelty for cruelty's sake.

1 hour ago, ohpenn said:

 

Ohio's issues transcend this, yes, but this in no way helps. This isn't 1990, or even 2000. Younger professional Americans have strong views that disagree with these policies, greatly. Does that mean they wouldn't accept a job offer? Maybe not, but Ohio needs people to look to Ohio as a place to want to live and help build a pipeline. I don't see how this helps. All things being equal, states that pull this s**t, are hurting themselves.

They may have strong views, but at the end of the day, what moves the needle to attract people are reasonable cost of living and good job opportunities. Progressives may not like this, but it wont stop the majority of them from relocating to Ohio for a good opportunity. 

 

Ohio struggles really have nothing to do with these type of bills. They are centered around a archaic tax system that preserves tiny municipalities as well as the fact that 40 years ago, Ohio missed the curve (just like Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin, West Virginia, Pennsylvania and New York when it came to attracting the next generation industries to establish a hub and locate in the state. It is easy to see why with Ohio being a big manufacturing state and the need to continue to assist the big job creator in the state but the economy turned and Ohio was not well positioned (just like the other states) to attract top IT, biotech, etc. businesses as they had footholds in other areas. 

This is where Ohio's top educated professionals went. The lower educated ones went to the sunbelt because, why deal with Ohio winters (especially NE Ohio winters for $20/hr when you could make similar in Florida/NC/TN/GA and have a lower cost of living and better weather. 

15 hours ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

They may have strong views, but at the end of the day, what moves the needle to attract people are reasonable cost of living and good job opportunities. Progressives may not like this, but it wont stop the majority of them from relocating to Ohio for a good opportunity. 

 

Ohio struggles really have nothing to do with these type of bills. They are centered around a archaic tax system that preserves tiny municipalities as well as the fact that 40 years ago, Ohio missed the curve (just like Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin, West Virginia, Pennsylvania and New York when it came to attracting the next generation industries to establish a hub and locate in the state. It is easy to see why with Ohio being a big manufacturing state and the need to continue to assist the big job creator in the state but the economy turned and Ohio was not well positioned (just like the other states) to attract top IT, biotech, etc. businesses as they had footholds in other areas. 

This is where Ohio's top educated professionals went. The lower educated ones went to the sunbelt because, why deal with Ohio winters (especially NE Ohio winters for $20/hr when you could make similar in Florida/NC/TN/GA and have a lower cost of living and better weather. 

 

 

Maybe if the GOP who controlled the state actually attempted to attract talent and create jobs, but it's pretty s**tty at that and worse, they don't seem to care to do that. They manufacture outrage to get votes from their base. Rinse. Repeat. No need to govern in any meaningful way or improve the state.

18 hours ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

It has already been established that these bills do not help nor will they deter people from moving to Ohio. People do not come to a state because they have a bathroom bill nor do they move away for the same reason. Ohio's struggling job issues transcend any social issue debate. 

 

I mean I'm sure this is something conservatives want to believe, that their social crusades and growing anti-democratic fascism doesn't move the needle at all for anyone making regional or national moves, but the reality is not so simple. People do tend to move for practical reasons like the economy, schooling or family, but the base policies of a state can indeed affect the choices of people moving when there are 49 other states to choose from. Ohio doesn't have the weather, reputation, economics or amenities to be a regressive conservative hellscape without consequences. 

Edited May 31, 20232 yr by jonoh81

16 hours ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

They may have strong views, but at the end of the day, what moves the needle to attract people are reasonable cost of living and good job opportunities. Progressives may not like this, but it wont stop the majority of them from relocating to Ohio for a good opportunity. 

 

Ohio struggles really have nothing to do with these type of bills. They are centered around a archaic tax system that preserves tiny municipalities as well as the fact that 40 years ago, Ohio missed the curve (just like Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin, West Virginia, Pennsylvania and New York when it came to attracting the next generation industries to establish a hub and locate in the state. It is easy to see why with Ohio being a big manufacturing state and the need to continue to assist the big job creator in the state but the economy turned and Ohio was not well positioned (just like the other states) to attract top IT, biotech, etc. businesses as they had footholds in other areas. 

This is where Ohio's top educated professionals went. The lower educated ones went to the sunbelt because, why deal with Ohio winters (especially NE Ohio winters for $20/hr when you could make similar in Florida/NC/TN/GA and have a lower cost of living and better weather. 

 

And yet Ohio's growth is now negative. How do these policies make the state more attractive? If the state legislature gave any thought whatsoever to attracting people, they would be trying to attract as many people as possible, not creating a hostile environment for women, minorities, and to anyone who values a functional democracy. 

1 hour ago, ohpenn said:

 

 

Maybe if the GOP who controlled the state actually attempted to attract talent and create jobs, but it's pretty s**tty at that and worse, they don't seem to care to do that. They manufacture outrage to get votes from their base. Rinse. Repeat. No need to govern in any meaningful way or improve the state.

Both parties are equally guilty of this. The problems have been an issue for over 50 years now yet both sides just want to engage in culture wars that play to their bases because it is easier to fight the culture war that placates the base than actually do something to fix the systemic issues. Plus, there is zero incentive to fix the systemic issues because to do so would likely create short term pain for a long term benefit that may not be realized for another generation, oftentimes when most of those politicians are out of power. That does not help win elections in the short term. 

11 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

Both parties are equally guilty of this. The problems have been an issue for over 50 years now yet both sides just want to engage in culture wars that play to their bases because it is easier to fight the culture war that placates the base than actually do something to fix the systemic issues. Plus, there is zero incentive to fix the systemic issues because to do so would likely create short term pain for a long term benefit that may not be realized for another generation, oftentimes when most of those politicians are out of power. That does not help win elections in the short term. 

 

Worthless both-sideism that is not based in any tangible reality or facts, meant to obfuscate and gaslight about actual harmful policies being passed by Republicans. Republicans, by the way, who have almost exclusively controlled the fortunes and direction of the state for the majority of those 50 years, especially in the last half. When should we expect Republican leadership to have any positive outcomes for Ohio? What things have actually gotten better in the state? What problems have been solved by the GOP? What accomplishments do they have aside from making murdering schoolchildren and wrecking the environment easier?

 

Edited May 31, 20232 yr by jonoh81

7 minutes ago, jonoh81 said:

 

I mean I'm sure this is something conservatives want to believe, that their social crusades and growing anti-democratic fascism doesn't move the needle at all for anyone making regional or national moves, but the reality is not so simple. People do tend to move for practical reasons like the economy, schooling or family, but the base policies of a state can indeed affect the choices of people moving when there are 49 other states to choose from. Ohio doesn't have the weather, reputation, economics or amenities to be a regressive conservative hellscape without consequences. 

jon, you seem to think that if only the conservatives were not in charge Ohio would be a shining beacon of light on the hill and people will flock here and sing kumbaya. That is an extremely naive and ignorant view of things. People are not leaving Ohio because of conservative policies. People were not coming to Ohio when they were a more liberal state either.  People have been steadily leaving Ohio for much of the last 50 years and the reason has little if nothing to do with their LGBT policies or which party controls the legislature.  It is about jobs and opportunity, that is it. 

 

Why were people flocking to North Dakota 10 years ago? It is a frozen tundra and run by conservative politicians that probably did not have a strong LGBTQ policy. But it did have jobs, and those jobs paid pretty well. And it had a low cost of living, so people wanted to move there.

 

People left Ohio and detroit, and Buffalo, Rochester, etc. because the mills closed, it was not efficient to manufacture in Ohio and the new industries in the economy led to the ability to work other places and make it more attractive to move. It really is as simple as that. 

 

Look at boomtowns, look at areas that have growth over the last 50 years. people come there for jobs and opportunity. You could create a perfect LGBTQ utopia in Ohio and it could be the most perfect community for all LBGTQ people to live in wonderful harmony and you still will not get people in the LGBTQ population to move from Florida to Ohio because Florida offers more JOBS and opportunity.  

 

 

4 minutes ago, jonoh81 said:

Worthless both-sideism that is not based in any tangible reality or facts, meant to obfuscate and gaslight about actual harmful policies being passed by Republicans.

Funny how you always seem to lack any facts in your arguments. 

 

The problem is that Ohio's population decline is not something that has occurred in the last 10 years or even 20 years because of GOP policies. This has been going on for 50 years. And yes, the GOP leadership does bear responsibility, but so do Democrats who have also stymied many good ideas over the last 50 years, both when they were in the majority or even from the minority. 

 

jonboy, your biggest problem is that you are always looking for a bad guy to blame. You look at things as a black or white good vs bad and you have manufactured in your head that the GOP is always the enemy and that if only Dems were in charge all the problems would go away and things would be wonderful. Unfortunately, that view is devoid of reality and things are not that simple. If you can't recognize or even admit to the flaws on the Dem side and can see where both sides have contributed to this issue (as well as other outside economic forces outside of both parties control) then you clearly do not understand the issues at play or your analysis is too jaded to draw a proper conclusion. 

2 hours ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

jon, you seem to think that if only the conservatives were not in charge Ohio would be a shining beacon of light on the hill and people will flock here and sing kumbaya. That is an extremely naive and ignorant view of things. People are not leaving Ohio because of conservative policies. People were not coming to Ohio when they were a more liberal state either.  People have been steadily leaving Ohio for much of the last 50 years and the reason has little if nothing to do with their LGBT policies or which party controls the legislature.  It is about jobs and opportunity, that is it. 

 

Why were people flocking to North Dakota 10 years ago? It is a frozen tundra and run by conservative politicians that probably did not have a strong LGBTQ policy. But it did have jobs, and those jobs paid pretty well. And it had a low cost of living, so people wanted to move there.

 

People left Ohio and detroit, and Buffalo, Rochester, etc. because the mills closed, it was not efficient to manufacture in Ohio and the new industries in the economy led to the ability to work other places and make it more attractive to move. It really is as simple as that. 

 

Look at boomtowns, look at areas that have growth over the last 50 years. people come there for jobs and opportunity. You could create a perfect LGBTQ utopia in Ohio and it could be the most perfect community for all LBGTQ people to live in wonderful harmony and you still will not get people in the LGBTQ population to move from Florida to Ohio because Florida offers more JOBS and opportunity.  

 

 

 

I think my feelings on conservatives and their policies are well-established at this point. But regardless of who's in charge, the state legislature is responsible for passing an agenda that will actually solve problems, or in some way make Ohio tangibly better for its citizens. The GOP is spectacularly failing in this regard. Banning trans people from sports and bathrooms doesn't fix anything and doesn't make the state more attractive to anyone outside of trashy bigots. And there are states doing the trashy bigotry much "better", so Ohio won't even win on that front. 

So what is the GOP leadership in the state actually doing to improve Ohio? Whatever I think might be better under a more progressive legislature and party, the reality is that conservatives are firmly in control. So what are they doing? Punishing rape victims and attacking democracy aren't going to win over converts to the cause, and it's not going to improve the economic realities of the state. 

North Dakota gained about as many people in the past 30 years as Columbus gained just in the last decade. Its percentage growth rate was high only because the population was already one of the lowest in the country. It's not nearly as impressive as you seem to think it is. And with the gradual move away from fossil fuels, those jobs aren't going to last forever, and when they're gone, what is North Dakota going to be left with except oppressive conservatism and severe winters? Economic opportunities and tax rates only go so far when those conditions exist in many other places. When Disney announced they were going to build a billion-dollar HQ building in Orlando and move employees from California, many people just decided to quit because they didn't want to move to a more conservative state. And these were 6-figure jobs in what would have been a lower cost-of-living state. Luckily for those people, DeSantis' fascism helped kill that project, so no one has to move. 

The point is people have options, a lot of them. Given the choice, a lot of people don't want to live in a repressive, regressive environment, even if that sometimes means they have to pay a bit more. Ohio isn't offering anything that other states aren't, and the state legislature is doing absolutely nothing to help. 

You won't get LGBTQ people moving from Florida to Ohio, true, because both places are showing the same overt hostility to that demographic. But you will see LGBTQ people moving from Florida to places that aren't trying to legislate them out of existence. Unemployment rates are low, there are labor shortages everywhere. Finding a job is not that hard. If Ohio and Florida don't want these people, plenty of other places would be happy to have them. 

Edited May 31, 20232 yr by jonoh81

I feel the entire point from the last post has gone completely over your head and you do not seem to grasp the concept.

 

1 hour ago, jonoh81 said:

North Dakota gained about as many people in the past 30 years as Columbus gained just in the last decade. Its percentage growth rate was high only because the population was already one of the lowest in the country. It's not nearly as impressive as you seem to think it is

Of course Columbus is going to gain more with a smaller growth rate, it started from a much bigger position. Same can be said about Boise Idaho, another growth town. The point is that you have a state in North Dakota that is growing despite what you may perceive is a major detriment of having conservative politics and being located in the great white North. 

 

1 hour ago, jonoh81 said:

You won't get LGBTQ people moving from Florida to Ohio, true, because both places are showing the same overt hostility to that demographic. But you will see LGBTQ people moving from Florida to places that aren't trying to legislate them out of existence. Unemployment rates are low, there are labor shortages everywhere. Finding a job is not that hard. If Ohio and Florida don't want these people, plenty of other places would be happy to have them. 

The hypo was if Ohio was this wonderful LGBTQ world with progressive governance and @jon81oh as the governor and chief policy maker in Ohio, that even in this perfect utopia, you still wont get many LGBTQ individuals to relocate to Ohio. 

 

 

Regarding your Disney example, again it is not as simple as you seem to want to make it out to be. Now I do not want to fully discount your take, as there could be some truth to it, but instead of swallow that full throat consider that maybe 1) Disney did not pull the plug because an employee revolt, they pulled the plug because their economic fortunes had changed. As a company, they were hemorrhaging money and have announced massive layoffs across the company. 2) Building and relocating the talent at this time was an expensive proposition that would take up considerable cash at a time where you would want to save and protect the cash. 3) Moving to Florida presented the company with many long term tax benefits but would take a number of years to realize and only after they spend a lot of money up front.   Now, certainly, a silver lining for Disney is throwing egg and DiSantis face when they pulled the plug but do you really think that Disney pulled the plug because of Florida policies or is it more plausible that it was the overall economic issues going on with the company who had recently replace their CEO for failing to deliver to shareholders. And a 4th nugget to consider in this process. Disney would be around in Florida much longer than DiSantis would be governor so dont you think their influence could whether the storm and come out ahead? 

1 hour ago, jonoh81 said:

I think my feelings on conservatives and their policies are well-established at this point.

Yes, bigotry and hatred can take many forms. 

Anecdotal- I have a large amount of friends from college that all stayed here in Ohio after graduation in the early 1990's. Every single one of them who had an opportunity to go somewhere else over the years has taken it. Not one stayed here....even with family connections. Now that doesn't mean we have all left.

Now during Covid- four more were presented the opportunity to go on remote work. All four left, one each to FL, CA, WA,OR.

I say four, but keep in mind they took their entire families with them. That's 11 people I no longer see about once a month.

12 minutes ago, TheCOV said:

Anecdotal- I have a large amount of friends from college that all stayed here in Ohio after graduation in the early 1990's. Every single one of them who had an opportunity to go somewhere else over the years has taken it. Not one stayed here....even with family connections. Now that doesn't mean we have all left.

Now during Covid- four more were presented the opportunity to go on remote work. All four left, one each to FL, CA, WA,OR.

I say four, but keep in mind they took their entire families with them. That's 11 people I no longer see about once a month.

 

https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/fastest-growing-states

 

In fairness, your friends who moved to Washington, Oregon, and Florida moved to some of the fastest-growing states in the country.  In the other hot thread today, there's a lot of dust up about anecdotes vs. statistics, but three out of four of those you just mentioned are part of well-documented larger statistical trends.

 

And in still other threads here, earlier this month, I believe, both and I and others who are politically very different from me were generally cautiously optimistic that that trend could reverse here in Ohio based on neither economic nor social attributes, but physical ones, particularly having to do with fresh water availability in the generation to come.

 

Florida has been a great growth story and its governor certainly intends to try to capitalize on that in 2024.  But it wouldn't surprise me if in 2044, the growth stories are the Great Lakes states (including both the blue and red ones).

1 hour ago, Gramarye said:

 

https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/fastest-growing-states

 

In fairness, your friends who moved to Washington, Oregon, and Florida moved to some of the fastest-growing states in the country.  In the other hot thread today, there's a lot of dust up about anecdotes vs. statistics, but three out of four of those you just mentioned are part of well-documented larger statistical trends.

 

And in still other threads here, earlier this month, I believe, both and I and others who are politically very different from me were generally cautiously optimistic that that trend could reverse here in Ohio based on neither economic nor social attributes, but physical ones, particularly having to do with fresh water availability in the generation to come.

 

Florida has been a great growth story and its governor certainly intends to try to capitalize on that in 2024.  But it wouldn't surprise me if in 2044, the growth stories are the Great Lakes states (including both the blue and red ones).

I've been in great hopes our Great Lakes will save our butts some day. The one who went to FL considered AZ, but didn't because of the water issue. They now are questioning the FL move due to skyrocketing insurance costs.

1 hour ago, TheCOV said:

I've been in great hopes our Great Lakes will save our butts some day. The one who went to FL considered AZ, but didn't because of the water issue. They now are questioning the FL move due to skyrocketing insurance costs.

Agreed. The Midwest had its day. It will likely have its day again when migration patterns change again.  For now, there are limited options to spur the high growth that other areas are seeing. I think the Intel plant in Colubmus can be a big boost to the entire state. The Amazon hub in Cincinnati is another driver of employment too as they spur a lot of entry level jobs. 

7 hours ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

I feel the entire point from the last post has gone completely over your head and you do not seem to grasp the concept.

 

I feel like you drastically overestimate the profound insights of your posts. 

 

7 hours ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

 

Of course Columbus is going to gain more with a smaller growth rate, it started from a much bigger position. Same can be said about Boise Idaho, another growth town. The point is that you have a state in North Dakota that is growing despite what you may perceive is a major detriment of having conservative politics and being located in the great white North. 

 

You were arguing masses of people were moving to ND for jobs despite its conservative politics. Factually, the growth was not impressive, either from a state or local level. 

Also, and maybe I'm wrong, but I would imagine that the political makeup of of people working in oil and gas are not particularly progressive. 

 

7 hours ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

The hypo was if Ohio was this wonderful LGBTQ world with progressive governance and @jon81oh as the governor and chief policy maker in Ohio, that even in this perfect utopia, you still wont get many LGBTQ individuals to relocate to Ohio. 

 

You'd get more than you get now, and that's the point. In a state that is now in decline, any policies that drive or keep people away are a problem. 

 

7 hours ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

Regarding your Disney example, again it is not as simple as you seem to want to make it out to be. Now I do not want to fully discount your take, as there could be some truth to it, but instead of swallow that full throat consider that maybe 1) Disney did not pull the plug because an employee revolt, they pulled the plug because their economic fortunes had changed. As a company, they were hemorrhaging money and have announced massive layoffs across the company. 2) Building and relocating the talent at this time was an expensive proposition that would take up considerable cash at a time where you would want to save and protect the cash. 3) Moving to Florida presented the company with many long term tax benefits but would take a number of years to realize and only after they spend a lot of money up front.   Now, certainly, a silver lining for Disney is throwing egg and DiSantis face when they pulled the plug but do you really think that Disney pulled the plug because of Florida policies or is it more plausible that it was the overall economic issues going on with the company who had recently replace their CEO for failing to deliver to shareholders. And a 4th nugget to consider in this process. Disney would be around in Florida much longer than DiSantis would be governor so dont you think their influence could whether the storm and come out ahead? 

Yes, bigotry and hatred can take many forms. 

 

Disney specifically mentioned politics as a reason why they decided not to move forward, though. It could've been more than that, but politics absolutely played a role. And do we really need to go into the stupidity of a governor attacking one of its largest economic powerhouse corporations because they hate the LGBTQ community so much? Conservatism is the death of common sense. 

2023 Guide to Anti-LGBTQ+ Legislation in Ohio

 

Over 490 anti-LGBTQ+ bills have been introduced in state legislatures across the United States since the start of the year.

 

This is both a new record and more than double the number introduced in 2022, according to the ACLU.

 

Due to squabbles about leadership within the Republican party in the Ohio House of Representatives, the Ohio legislature got off a slow 2023 start in keeping pace with other states’ anti-LGBTQ+ efforts. But they now seem determined to catch up.

 

To help you differentiate one House Bill (HB) from another, we have put together this easy-to-use reference guide to the most prominent LGBTQ+ bills. We will continue to update this guide as the bills move forward.

 

Unlike years past, there are zero pro-LGBTQ+ equality bills being considered at present: there is no version of the Fairness Act currently on the table nor any efforts to ban conversion therapy statewide.

 

See all below:

https://columbusunderground.com/2023-guide-to-anti-lgbtq-legislation-in-ohio-tbf1/

Ohio GOP Wants Parental Warnings Before School Lessons Featuring Gender Ideology

 

A controversial bill in the Ohio Statehouse would force educators to out students to their parents and require public schools to give parental notification before teaching “sexuality content.” 

 

House Bill 8 was introduced by State Reps. D.J. Swearingen, R-Huron, and Sara Carruthers, R-Hamilton, in February and opponents are saying it’s another anti-LGBTQ bill. 

 

Amendments recently made to HB 8 changed the bill’s original language from “sexually explicit content” to “sexuality content” which is defined as “oral or written instruction, presentation, image, or description of sexual concepts or gender ideology.”

 

The bill, also known as Enact the Parents’ Bill of Rights, would require public schools to notify parents about sexuality content materials, give parents a chance to review them, and give parents the option to request alternative instruction. 

 

“What the most recent amendment did was specifically identify that school districts need to essentially give families an opt-out from sexuality content,” said Cynthia Peoples, director of Honesty for Ohio Education. “It also specifically identified that districts must out any student that identifies as transgender, gender diverse or non-binary, which we know can cause so much harm and danger to the child.”

 

HB 8 started off as a fairly neutral education bill that has since morphed into anti-LGBTQ legislation through these amendments, said Kathryn Poe, spokesperson for Equality Ohio.

 

“What the committee has done, which has been really disappointing to watch, is they have basically made this a ‘Don’t Say Gay’ bill targeted very explicitly at the LBGTQ community,” Poe said. “What this bill really does is label LGBTQ topics as something that is perhaps inappropriate for the classroom.”

 

Way more below:

https://columbusunderground.com/ohio-gop-wants-parental-warnings-before-school-lessons-featuring-gender-ideology-ocj1/