May 23, 201015 yr ^^ Yes, I may have to resort to a long hike! Btw...anyone know what were the tracks in the foreground of the photo where they are removed? Was this a passenger line?
May 23, 201015 yr If you are referring to the photo of the Amtrak Lakerfront station in Cleveland, yes, that was a main track. Both main tracks carried passenger trains for decades.
May 23, 201015 yr ^ Yes, that is the one I was referring to. You mean they only use one track now? How long has that been out of commission. We traveled from Cle. to San Fran via Chicago in '76... was it used then?
May 24, 201015 yr Yes. Same was used then as it is used now. There is just one fewer track because the freight trains from Buffalo and the east that used to pass the station now use the Belt Line through University Circle, Harvard-Broadway and between Brookpark Road and I-480. Norfolk Southern from Pittsburgh and the east still goes past the Amtrak station but is not visible in that earlier picture. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 25, 201015 yr This conference was awesome -- their largest yet. I was a panelist for the CYP Regional Learning Network's discussion on using passenger to unite and ignite the region's technology economy.... Conference Looks Toward Regional Cooperation for Future Last Update: 5/21 8:57 pm This conference was the third of its kind. One topic that is gaining support across the region is developing a passenger train service that connects Cleveland, Youngstown and Pittsburgh. "It's low cost. It's one fifth the cost of driving," said Ken Prendergast, executive director of All Aboard Ohio. "This is going to provide linkages to urban centers. So a lot of the development that we're starting to see in a lot of these town centers, I think will really be ignited by having passenger rail service." Realistically, starting rail service is probably at least two years away. But the group Prendergast said that planning will get underway this summer to make such a service possible. If it happens the service would begin as traditional train service, but with hopes to add a high speed line in the future. READ MORE AT: http://www.wytv.com/content/news/local/story/Conference-Looks-Toward-Regional-Cooperation-for/WsWuJkARSUOVjOUU3q2McQ.cspx What's two years away? The rail service, or the start of construction?
May 25, 201015 yr Hopefully the service. But since everything transportation-related takes longer than we hope it will, I would happy if construction happens by then. Considering that I've been advocating for the Youngstown route since 1988, two years doesn't sound so bad.... Actually, I had started sending letters around to businesses and city officials in the summer of 1988. I had just turned 21. But this is the oldest news article I've scanned that documents our early efforts. Sorry this is so huge, but I find if I shrink it any further it's almost impossible to read... A little more than two years later, I was a "grizzled old veteran"... The day after Valentine's Day in 1991, we're looking over the Ravenna Connection that was idled in 1980 and removed in 1986. Later that night I remember I went to a show on Playhouse Square and drove home in a bad snowstorm... And a month after that the Vindictor published an op-ed piece I wrote. One of the many pieces I wrote since 1988. And the opposition thinks they can outlast us? Or outlive us?? I'm in this until I die... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 25, 201015 yr What would be really valuable is if you could make me look like that again. This is me about 20 years and 50 pounds later: None of you youngin's can escape this fate! You too face this future! OK, back to CLE-PIT... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 25, 201015 yr What would be really valuable is if you could make me look like that again. Consider it done! OK, I promise I'm done. Back on topic. :)
May 25, 201015 yr wow. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 28, 201015 yr http://209.51.133.155/cms/index.php/news_releases/more/cle_ygn_pit_leaders_say_fix_the_gap_in_the_map/ MAY 28, 2010 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: FIX THE GAP IN THE MAP! THREE CITIES UNITE FOR REGIONAL, HIGH-SPEED PASSENGER RAIL AS A CATALYST FOR REVITALIZATION AND COMPETITIVE ADVANTAGE. YOUNGSTOWN, OH. The Cleveland-Youngstown-Pittsburgh region needs better passenger rail connections to compete for jobs and economic opportunities: connections that are vital to rebuilding the cities that built America. Thats one of the clear messages that came from the 2010 Regional Learning Network conference: a meeting of key community, government, and business leaders from Cleveland, Youngstown, and Pittsburgh. One of the conferences major topics of discussion, dedicated passenger rail in the Cleveland-Youngstown-Pittsburgh (CYP) Corridor, gained significant momentum with many leaders stepping forward to advance the initiative. Passenger rail is vital to our shared future, which is why the (Youngstown-Warren Regional) supports it. I am excited by everyones energy, and I think this is the start of some great work between our three cities, said Tony Paglia, Vice President of Government Affairs. Steve Craig, Lawrence County (PA) Commissioner and board member of the Southwestern Pennsylvania Commission added, Ive never seen a turnout like this for this issue. This is great, and I bet we can use this voice to actually change some things in the corridor. All Aboard Ohio Executive Director Ken Prendergast agreed. Its groups like this, tied to our years of work (in Ohio), that give us energy and bring a new future to the region. The regional rail sessions, part of a larger conference to address shared issues and opportunities facing the former manufacturing heartland, started with a morning panel discussion with Mr. Paglia, Mr. Prendergast, Mr. Craig, and Maria Choca Urban of the Center for Neighborhood Technologies. The afternoon agenda, however, was set by a wide array of stakeholders and facilitated by the Pittsburgh Community Reinvestment Group and 10,000 Friends of Pennsylvania. The outcome is an action plan that advances regional rail, brings service to Youngstown, OH and New Castle, PA, and establishes a regional entity to oversee the initiative. High-speed rail will be the ultimate goal but will be pursued incrementally, starting with improved passenger service on enhanced freight corridors. This approach ensures usable service comes to the region much more quickly, thereby building demand for high-speed rail once it comes. It is also a far cost-effective path to rail service that people in the three metros will use. Specifics of the plan include: · Restoration of the 1-mile Ravenna Connection, thereby connecting Youngstown to Cleveland and Pittsburgh - vital to improving ridership and advancing regional rail as an economic catalyst. · Advocating for interim funding to put more trains on-line, vastly improving passenger rail service and adequately linking the region to Chicago and the Northeast. This plan benefits both passenger and freight customers. Currently, only one late-night train covers the region. · Ensuring that the Federal Railroad Administration fills the "Gap in the Map" of the planned high-speed rail network by granting the CYP corridor high-speed designation. For more information, please contact: · All Aboard Ohio Ken Prendergast, Executive Director. (216) 288-4883 · 10,000 Friends of Pennsylvania Grant Ervin, Western PA Director. (412) 471-3727 · Pittsburgh Community Reinvestment Group Chris Sandvig, Project manager. (412) 391-6732 Also, please visit: · The Ohio Rail Development Commission's 2.2MB overview of upcoming planning is available at: http://www2.dot.state.oh.us/ohiorail/Ohio%20Hub/The_Project/PPts/Cleveland-Pittsburgh_PEIS.pdf · All Aboard Ohio's 6.8MB starter service plan is available at: http://freepdfhosting.com/3783f53702.pdf ### "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 14, 201014 yr While the CYP Corridor has only one-fifth of the intercity travel market of 3C Corridor (3.7 million annual trips for 3C, 700K for CYP), the CYP Tech Belt has a strong commuter market of shorter-distance (less than 100 miles) trips that's demonstrated in the following graphic... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 23, 201014 yr I realize this article isn't about a rail project, but it is about the Tech Belt of advanced manufacturing etc. that creates a stronger ridership market for passenger rail. And a growing, revitalized Youngstown in the middle of the corridor is very important to this ridership base. So with that, I remind you all about the thousands of new jobs (11,250 to 18,000 direct and spin-off) coming to the Mahoning Valley this year and next... http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,8297.msg469148.html#msg469148 Add to that this latest bombshell... Campbell land eyed as site for new mill Published: Wed, June 23, 2010 @ 12:09 a.m. Plant would employ 700, companys owner says By Jeanne Starmack [email protected] CAMPBELL A Pittsburgh-based company that owns 113 acres of industrial property in Campbell and Youngstown is planning to build a steel mill there. ... Sherman International Corp. would like to build a mill for cold-rolling coils on the 40 acres it owns in Campbell, said company representatives. ... The plan hinges on the citys obtaining grants for the company to assess and then clean up the site. ... If all goes as planned, Krinos said, the company would like to expand the mill onto its Youngstown property eventually, with the expectation of 3,500 jobs in all. More: http://www.vindy.com/news/2010/jun/23/campbell-land-eyed-as-site-for-new-mill/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 24, 201014 yr Newly released report on the economic opportunities of CYP passenger rail All Aboard Ohio has released a new white paper on the TechBelt thematic economic development benefits of passenger rail development in the Cleveland - Youngstown - Pittsburgh Corridor. The report is for general distribution and sharing, so feel free to distribute this document to others.... http://freepdfhosting.com/898887c48b.pdf (6.9MB) "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 25, 201014 yr My new Avatar. I've always loved this war-propaganda artwork for the Pennsylvania Railroad, which has to be inspired by the awesome industrial might of the Cleveland - Youngstown - Pittsburgh corridor 60-70 years ago and can be had again.... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 27, 201014 yr KJP--very nice report. Nicely written and excellent graphics. One comment--service does not have to be operated by Amtrak. Your report seems to suggest that 'approval' or a commitment from Amtrak to operate more CLE-PIT service is a required step in the process. However, the tracks, right of way, and signaling are owned by CSX or NS, and though Amtrak, under contract, provides the operations for some commuter operations in the country, it does not have to provide all of them, including this route. I don't think getting Amtrak to commit should be part of the steps, as we don't really need their "commitment". If CYP will use their stations, then some form of MOA should be in place that 'if passenger service is built on CYP under the [KJP] alignment, then Amtrak agrees, upon a suitable arrangement for all involved parties, to allow the new commuter operation to use its stations at xxxx, xxxx, and xxxx." Amtrak may well be the best operator, but if getting their full approval to operate it today, without knowing how much they'll be paid for it, will be difficult and likely add months/years to the process.
June 27, 201014 yr Thanks for the compliments. Under federal law, in a travel market where Amtrak is already operating, Amtrak has the right of first refusal to operate any expanded, state-supported services such as those under contract by affected states. Some may argue that, since Amtrak is operating Cleveland-Pittsburgh via Alliance and the proposed service would operate via Youngstown, Amtrak is not already operating in this market. But I believe the law is concerned with a travel market's endpoints (ie: Cleveland and Pittsburgh) and not the route to travel between those two points. See below and decide for yourself.... Rail Passenger Service Act of 1970, P.L. 91-518, 84 Stat. 1327 AMENDMENTS 1997 - Pub. L. 105-134 substituted section catchline for former catchline which read "Operation of basic system" and amended text generally. Prior to amendment, text read as follows: "(a) By Amtrak. - Amtrak shall provide intercity rail passenger transportation within the basic system unless the transportation is provided by - "(1) a rail carrier with which Amtrak did not make a contract under section 401(a) of the Rail Passenger Service Act; or "(2) a regional transportation authority under contract with Amtrak. "(b) By Others With Consent of Amtrak. - Except as provided in section 24306 of this title, a person may provide intercity rail passenger transportation over a route over which Amtrak provides scheduled intercity rail passenger transportation under a contract under section 401(a) of the Act only with the consent of Amtrak." § 24306. Mail, express, and auto-ferry transportation (a) Actions To Increase Revenues.— Amtrak shall take necessary action to increase its revenues from the transportation of mail and express. To increase its revenues, Amtrak may provide auto-ferry transportation as part of the basic passenger transportation authorized by this part. (b) Authority of Others To Provide Auto-Ferry Transportation.— State and local laws and regulations that impair the provision of auto-ferry transportation do not apply to Amtrak or a rail carrier providing auto-ferry transportation. A rail carrier may not refuse to participate with Amtrak in providing auto-ferry transportation because a State or local law or regulation makes the transportation unlawful. ### "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 27, 201014 yr Awesome avatar KJP. That's a messy statute, at least as far as answering the question at hand. It certainly doesn't insist upon identifying routes by endpoints alone. It's not structured as a prohibition... neither (b) nor the auto-ferry bit subsumes (a). And the exception in (a)(1) is fairly broad, as written... no contract, no problem. But it's unlikely that an exception this broad could have been intended, if the goal was to centralize control under Amtrak.
June 27, 201014 yr The text I quoted was pulled from different sections of the statute to address the issue posed by Pugu. The full context might be better understood by reading the whole thing. And you're probably right that the text which refers to "route" could be interpreted that Amtrak is not serving the Cleveland - Youngstown - Pittsburgh corridor. BTW, the report that Pugu referred to has six maps that shows the proximity of the rail corridor(s) to important travel destinations. They are very small in that report, so I'm posting larger versions of those maps here... The Ohio Hub PEIS will nail down routing options, but these are my thoughts as to which route(s) are likely to be used for a start-up service. The start-up service is part of the scope of the PEIS. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 27, 201014 yr Thanks KJP. I wasn't actually familiar with the statutes--which as written, as you state, makes its subject to interpretation as to whether or not it applies.
July 7, 201014 yr Since I did this for 3C Corridor, a former board member of All Aboard Ohio suggested one for Cleveland - Pittsburgh. There were four parallel Cleveland - Pittsburgh routings during the first 60 or so years of the 20th century.... Cleveland - Garrettsville - Warren - Youngstown - New Castle - Beaver - Coraopolis - Pittsburgh (Erie Railroad + Pittsburgh & Lake Erie) 1934 running time CLE-PGH: from 3 hours (10 enroute stops) to 4 hours, 10 minutes (16 enroute stops); 1934 frequencies: CLE-PGH - 6 daily round trips, CLE-YGN - 7 daily round trips, YGN-PGH - 9 daily round trips; 1955 running time CLE-PGH: from 2 hours, 55 minutes (10 enroute stops) to 3 hours (13 enroute stops); 1955 frequencies: CLE-PGH - 3 daily round trips, CLE-YGN - 5 daily round trips, YGN-PGH - 6 daily round trips; Present-day service: none. Cleveland - Ravenna - Niles - Youngstown - New Castle - Beaver Falls - Sewickley - Pittsburgh (Pennsylvania Railroad + Baltimore & Ohio + Pennsylvania Railroad) 1934 running time CLE-PGH: from 3 hours, 15 minutes (12 enroute stops) to 3 hours, 25 minutes (14 enroute stops); 1934 frequencies: CLE-PGH - 3 daily round trips, CLE-YGN - 3 daily round trips, YGN-PGH - 5 daily round trips; 1955 running time CLE-PGH: from 3 hours, 10 minutes (5 enroute stops) to 3 hours, 29 minutes (4 enroute stops); 1955 frequencies: CLE-PGH - 2 daily round trips, CLE-YGN - 2 daily round trips, YGN-PGH - 2 daily round trips; Present-day service: none. Cleveland - Ravenna - Alliance - Salem - Beaver Falls - Sewickley - Pittsburgh (Pennsylvania Railroad) 1934 running time CLE-PGH: from 3 hours (4 enroute stops) to 6 hours, 40 minutes (16 enroute stops); 1934 frequencies: CLE-PGH - 5 daily round trips, CLE-ALI - 6 daily round trips, ALI-PGH - 6 daily round trips; 1955 running time CLE-PGH: 2 hours, 30 minutes (2 enroute stops) 1955 frequencies: CLE-PGH - 2 daily round trips Present-day running time CLE-PGH: from 2 hours, 54 minutes (1 enroute stop) to 3 hours, 11 minutes (1 enroute stop) Present-day frequencies: CLE-PGH - 1 daily round trip Cleveland - Peninsula - Akron - Ravenna- Youngstown - New Castle - Beaver - Coraopolis - Pittsburgh (Baltimore & Ohio + Pittsburgh & Lake Erie) 1934 running time CLE-PGH: from 4 hours, 40 minutes (9 enroute stops) to 7 hours, 35 minutes (10 enroute stops); 1934 frequencies (all trains via Zelienople, PA until 1938): CLE-PGH - 2 daily round trips, CLE-AKR - 3 daily round trips, AKR-PGH - 5 daily round trips; 1955 running time CLE-PGH: from 3 hours, 30 minutes (3 enroute stops) to 3 hours, 35 minutes (3 enroute stops); 1955 frequencies: CLE-PGH - 1 daily round trip, CLE-AKR - 1 daily round trip, AKR-PGH - 5 daily round trips; Present-day service: none except for Cuyahoga Valley Scenic Railroad CLE-AKR. Some interesting summaries from the above data: Cleveland - Pittsburgh total daily round trips among all routes in 1934: 16 Cleveland - Pittsburgh " " " " " " " in 1955: 8 Cleveland - Youngstown total daily round trips among all routes in 1934: 12 Cleveland - Youngstown " " " " " " " in 1955: 8 Youngstown - Pittsburgh total daily round trips among all routes in 1934: 19 Youngstown - Pittsburgh " " " " " " " in 1955: 13 "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 21, 201014 yr Piitsburgh-Cleveland corridor mentioned in this article... Allegheny commuter rail line still distant possibility Project has $171M in financing, but much work remains Monday, July 19, 2010 By Jon Schmitz, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette Once viewed as a possible relief valve during major reconstruction of Route 28, a commuter rail line proposed for the Allegheny Valley remains a distant dream. With construction of the North Side section of Route 28 set to begin next month and disrupt traffic through the fall of 2014, the rail line to Downtown Pittsburgh, talked about for more than a decade, has yet to advance beyond preliminary studies. Robert Ardolino, a consultant to the Allegheny Valley Railroad, which has been offering to provide commuter service along its line since 1999, said the current $220 million to $230 million proposal would provide service from Tarentum Bridge Road in Arnold to the Light Rail Transit station at Steel Plaza, Downtown. Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10200/1073704-147.stm#ixzz0uKY8VdVw
July 21, 201014 yr Warren will be the weak link in the Cle. to Pitt. effort. The city is a disaster when it comes to a progressive idea like this because the leadership, or lack there-of...l is a grand canyon of stupidity and "Joe Smiths". It is so mentally stuck into the auto only thing...and all talk no action. I hope that scenario will not hinder the effort.
July 21, 201014 yr Warren will be the weak link in the Cle. to Pitt. effort. The city is a disaster when it comes to a progressive idea like this because the leadership, or lack there-of...l is a grand canyon of stupidity and "Joe Smiths". It is so mentally stuck into the auto only thing...and all talk no action. I hope that scenario will not hinder the effort. I don't know how it'll be the weak link, if the leadership of Warren doesn't want passenger rail, then Warren will be skipped. There are several routing options between CLE and Pitt and not all pass through Warren.
July 23, 201014 yr Warren is very supportive of passenger rail. The biggest issue for them is that their rail infrastructure was decimated over the past 40 years of rail industry mergers, plant closings etc. That can be a negative, at least as far as providing a start-up passenger rail service, as there is no high-quality passenger-ready rail infrastructure available through the city. Instead, there is a high-quality rail corridor (CSX) passing about five miles south of the City of Warren through Newton Falls, Lordstown and Niles. That can also be a positive, at least as far as providing a long-term "high-speed" passenger rail service, as the former Erie-Lackawanna mainline through Warren would be an ideal routing for 110+ mph passenger trains that's completely separate from heavy freight traffic. Because the CYP Corridor has so much "legacy" rail infrastructure left over from its days as an industrial powerhouse, these legacy lines can be stitched together to create a passenger-only rail corridor almost the entire way from downtown Cleveland to downtown Pittsburgh. That includes the active portions of the former P&LE which was up to four tracks wide over the 30 miles from the Beaver Valley all the way into downtown Pittsburgh/Station Square. CSX uses only 1-2 track spaces here, leaving room for a high-speed track on one of the remaining track spaces. I sense another map coming on.... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 23, 201014 yr Discussion moved from the 3C thread.... How would an interstate system, like Cleveland-Pittsburgh, be constructed? Would each state only be responsible for constructing and running track within their borders? Is it split 50-50? Or would there some larger entity that would control the whole thing? Too early to tell, but lots of options are on the table. For example, CYP (Cleveland - Youngstown - Pittsburgh) stakeholders met as part of the CYP Regional Learning Network and suggested a two-state entity to oversee the operation and funding of CYP passenger rail to simplify coordination issues. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 23, 201014 yr As promised, a map showing what dedicated rights of way might be available.... And the former P&LE which CSX uses from New Castle into Pittsburgh was up to four tracks wide in many places. This is what the four-track P&LE line looks like today between Monaca (pronounced Moe-nah-Ka) and Ambridge along the Ohio River. Plenty of room for additional tracks unlike the 3- and 4-track NS main across the river.... The P&LE was three tracks with room for a fourth through Wampum, PA. Now CSX uses it for its National Gateway Corridor. Here a CSX train with BNSF power heads east under the former PRR (now NS) Youngstown Line prior to its recent rebuilding.... Along the Ohio River, about 11 miles from downtown Pittsburgh, is Coraopolis, PA. The historic P&LE station still stands (barely) but would make a good suburban/airport station location. Only one track of four remains here... The CSX line is double-tracked a little farther upriver at McKee's Rocks, but there's still plenty of room here for a high-speed passenger track or two past the former P&LE railyard site.... Some other under-utilized or abandoned sections of "legacy" rail corridors which could be reactivated for high-speed passenger use: The former double-tracked Erie-Lackawanna Chicago-Hoboken NJ mainline through Ravenna that saw 60 daily freight trains as recently as the 1970s... The Erie-Lackawanna First Subdivision to Cleveland as seen in Aurora... The same line about 10 miles east in Jeddoe Station at the SR700 crossing, now the Headwaters Trail. This line once saw 14 daily passenger trains at 70 mph and Ohio's last commuter train which ended in 1977... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 13, 201014 yr The Youngstown-Warren Regional Chamber of Commerce has added a page to their website about CYP passenger rail. Check it out at: http://regionalchamber.com/CommunitySupport/AdvocacyAndInfluence/AllAboardOhio.aspx BTW, the next meeting at the chamber's offices will be at noon Sept. 9. Brown bag lunch, as always. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 15, 201014 yr Love this to come back and I would ride it a lot... Just beware: Warren.... inept city with severe problems disproportionate to its size will be the weakest link...so, I hope it does not present issues for this project. This has been a personal concern. They were also a road block for the Great Western Reserve Greenway...which ironically, was on an already abandon rail line.
August 16, 201014 yr ^How did this past week's meeting go? It went very well. There were about 25 people there, including reps from the Congress, city, chamber, ODOT, Eastgate COG, YSU, Mahoning Valley Organizing Collaborative, Trumbull County Mobility Management, plus some citizens from Pittsburgh. There was a great deal of interest in restoring the Ravenna Connection track (see images on previous pages) in the near term to enhance the movement of freight to/from the Mahoning Valley and to enhance access to the reactivated Ravenna Arsenal as the Camp Ravenna Joint Military Training & Logistics Center. Since M1A1 Abrams tanks, armored personnel carriers and large artillery pieces cannot be moved on the roads, rail access is essential to this site. Yet trains can only access this site via STRACNET (http://www.tea.army.mil/dodprog/RND/default.htm) corridors from the east..... First the STRACNET access to Camp Ravenna: Then the CSX routing which refined coke has been taking from Mittal's coke plant in Warren to Mittal's Cleveland Works: Then the only rail routes available from the Port of Cleveland and industries in Cleveland to/from the growing industries in the Mahoning Valley (including RTI International Metals-Niles Titanium Group, one of the nation's few remaining titanium plants): And, of course, since this is a passenger rail thread, there is only route between Cleveland and Pittsburgh still intact for passenger rail without the Ravenna Connection. That route has 12 times less population than the Youngstown route which requires restoration of the Ravenna Connection: "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 15, 201014 yr At the risk of making this post sound like a Tweet, I'm off to Pittsburgh in the morning to spread the rail gospel. But from what I hear they're eager to find a new train to ride after the maglev project derailed. We'll see. BTW, All Aboard Ohio's CYP TechBelt passenger rail display has "gone public" in downtown Youngstown at the city-owned Federal Plaza office building and food court on West Federal Street. The display, shown below, is in the center atrium opposite the security/information desk. The City of Youngstown and Ohio House Transportation Committee Chair Bob Hagan (also a CSX locomotive engineer) sponsored the display, and I designed and built it. Thanks so much to the city and Rep. Hagan for sponsoring it, and to the city for displaying it in a prominent, secure location. All Aboard Ohio members Jim Pirko, left, and John Fahnert check out the display during a recent lunch hour at the busy Federal Plaza.... This provides a better view of where the display is located in Federal Plaza.... And if you won't be getting to Youngstown anytime soon and want to see what the display says/shows, here are the display panels in PDF.... LEFT PANEL: http://freepdfhosting.com/bbd69061cf.pdf CENTER PANEL: http://freepdfhosting.com/472c478b07.pdf RIGHT PANEL: http://freepdfhosting.com/499c65597a.pdf "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 15, 201014 yr The Carnegie Mellon smartypants probably will want to have some part to play in this. Perhaps make this a testbed for high speed rail for going up mountains since they are looking at that in Colorado alongside I-70. Maybe overhead rails to be placed alongside highways in some kind of electric or pulse type system.. This could go along I-76 and head to Akron before heading up to Cleveland Hopkins. Certainly this would be far cheaper than a maglev.
September 16, 201014 yr Thanks! BTW, it took me an hour to get out of Greater Cleveland this morning traffic was so bad. I-480 from I-77 to I-271 was stop-and-crawl the entire way. That's what I get for trying to save a couple of quarters by not taking I-77 straight down to the Turnpike... But once I got down to the Turnpike I finally found out how fast my new Hyundai Genesis Coupe Turbo can go (I won't reveal this on a public forum). I managed to make up the 20 minutes I lost in rush hour and got to Pittsburgh on time. The toughest question I got was: "So are you going to give my city a station?!?!" "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 29, 201014 yr Cross-posted from 3C thread..... Development of a rail system in Ohio is worth pursuing Youngstown Vindicator Wednesday, September 29, 2010 People who can remember excursions by passenger train from downtown Youngstown stations to Cleveland or Pittsburgh for a ball game or a day of shopping are fewer and fewer. Seventy-five years ago, special events in Cleveland warranted special trains. Fifty years ago hundreds of kids who performed safety patrol duties near their schools would be rewarded by the Safety Council and Police Department with a train ride and an Indians game. Over the years, those special train rides, as well as daily commuter trains to Cleveland, disappeared. America, it seems, had outgrown trains, at least for trips that could be made by car. And most longer trips were made by plane. Full editorial at: http://www.vindy.com/news/2010/sep/29/development-of-a-rail-system-in-ohio-is-/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 1, 201014 yr Passenger rail will be a great way to experience these cities and bolster the job-producing, quality-of-life activities highlighted in these wonderful videos.... Downtown Cleveland Is Moving It's Happening Here.......Youngstown, Ohio Pittsburgh WOW! Tourism Pittsburgh "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 1, 201014 yr Great videos.... :-) but perhaps an explanation about how this ties in with the thread about passenger rail.
November 1, 201014 yr Done. A tough, demanding crowd here at UO! "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 2, 201014 yr I think we need a briefing by ORDC's technical team of local media before starting a NEPA process for rail. Yes, we do NEPA highway projects all the time for road projects, but we've been doing them for so long that no one in the media pays attention to them anymore. But when a strange new rail project comes along, then they notice. This is editorial by the Warren Tribune Chronicle staff is cross-posted from the 3C thread. What they don't recognize is that 3C is the Midwest's busiest travel corridor between metro areas and that planning for the CYP Corridor will also start with a conventional-speed service because there's never enough money or cultural/political support early on for a strange new expensive project like high-speed rail. The initial speed for CYP will also have a low estimated baseline average speed and the Trib will also recoil in horror at that until the engineering starts and harder numbers are developed. Round and round we go.... High-speed rail timing is puzzling November 2, 2010 When Ohio accepted $400 million from the federal government to begin developing high-speed rail, its political leaders created the so-called Tri-C corridor, a Cleveland-Columbus-Cincinnati route on existing rail lines. Critics, however, pointed out many flaws, the biggest of which was that the rail line would not be high-speed. At an average speed of 39 mph, critics were able to poke serious holes, such as how unlikely it would be that people would ride longer on a train than in a car to get to the same destination. Suddenly, in the midst of the 2010 General Election, which concludes today, the Ohio Department of Transportation announced a revised average speed of 50 mph for the proposed rail. No new analysis was conducted to arrive at this new speed. No new information was obtained from the freight railroads that own the lines to arrive at this new speed. In fact, nothing really changed except the speed. READ MORE AT: http://www.tribtoday.com/page/content.detail/id/549083/High-speed-rail-timing-is-puzzling.html?nav=5007 "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 3, 201014 yr BTW, the Republican Pennsylvania gubernatorial candidate -- who proposed to eliminate the state's $400 million budget for transit -- is winning with a comfortable margin. So between the antics of Kasich and Corbett, things aren't looking good for Cleveland - Pittsburgh passenger rail either. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 10, 201014 yr From: Shari Budge Subject: November 18th All Aboard Ohio Meeting Good afternoon, As a reminder the next All Aboard Ohio meeting is on Thursday, November 18th at 12:00pm in the 17th floor conference room of the Regional Chamber. As always the meeting will be a brown bag lunch and the Chamber will provide the drinks. Please let me know as soon as you are able if you will attend this meeting. Thank you so much, Shari Budge Executive & Governmental Affairs Coordinator Youngstown/Warren Regional Chamber 11 Central Square, Suite 1600 Youngstown, Ohio 44503 Phone: 330-744-2131, ext. 31 Fax: 330-746-0330 [email protected] "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 3, 201114 yr FYI. Our work continues to progress on the Cleveland - Akron - Youngstown - Pittsburgh Tech Belt rail project....... ______________ Happy New Year! As a reminder the next All Aboard Ohio meeting is this Thursday, January 6th at 12:00pm in the 17th floor conference room of the Regional Chamber. Please let me know if you will attend this meeting. Thank you, Shari Budge Executive & Governmental Affairs Coordinator Youngstown/Warren Regional Chamber 11 Central Square, Suite 1600 Youngstown, Ohio 44503 Phone: 330-744-2131, ext. 31 Fax: 330-746-0330 [email protected] "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 3, 201114 yr Economist makes case for stronger Cleveland-Pittsburgh ties Blog entry: January 3, 2011, 1:12 pm | Author: SCOTT SUTTELL Welcome to 2011. A few thoughts and links for the day: It's not a new idea, but an economist at the University of Pittsburgh outlines the case for establishing greater economic ties between Pittsburgh and Cleveland Cleveburgh, as he calls it. Christopher Briem, who works at the University Center for Social and Urban Research, in an op-ed piece in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette says that it may be time to talk about the once-unthinkable: a combined Cleveland-Pittsburgh metro region. READ MORE AT: http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20110103/BLOGS03/110109978 "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 5, 201114 yr The irony is that this is not a new idea at all. The modern Megalopolis concept was introduced in the late 30's and refined in the late 50's. In 2005 dollars, the "GreatLakes" region which would encompass parts of New York, Western PA, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Wisconsin and Missouri would be the second largest economy in the US and the sixth largest economy in the world (though this is far less likely now that Republicans control significant parts of these states). In particular, what has always hurt Pittsburgh is its desire to part of the East Coast (the mountains being a bit of a problem, however), instead of recognizing that its economic future belongs with the rust belt (that an the spillover animosity towards Cleveland and Buffalo arising out of the sports rivalries). That is one reason why the Ohio Hub Project was so critical not only to Ohio, but to the Great Lakes Megalopolis not only in terms of passenger rail but in terms of freight, as well. People who think that rail and barge are "old" ways of doing things don't seem to realize that largest cost of many manufactured goods is the total cost of shipping and that the greatest of these costs is the last mile (to your door). I once did work for steel company during a period where they had just completed evaluating a number of areas in which to locate a new mini-mill (including the Ohio Valley). Next to labor, their single greatest consideration in terms of location was the cost to transport raw and finished materials (including the cost of materials used to produce the electricity that the mill would consume). Without rail and water, there would be no manufacturing in the US yet our national investment in these is pitiful and getting worse.
February 7, 201114 yr To expand upon what I wrote earlier in this thread, at: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,12576.msg317137.html#msg317137 Once upon a time you could save money by moving people and goods by train between Cleveland and Youngstown. Today, no direct rail line exists. There is, however, a 1-mile gap between two high-quality double-tracked mainlines offering top speeds of 79 mph. That gap is located at Ravenna, between Norfolk Southern (former Conrail, before that it was Penn Central, and before that Pennsylvania RR) and CSX (former Chessie System, before that it was the Baltimore & Ohio Railroad)..... That was then: This is now (little has change since 1990 except that the Conrail line is now owned by Norfolk Southern): Well, in the latest issue of The Sentinel (the B&O RR Historical Society's publication), there are two excellent articles about Ravenna with lots of photos. I have several of these photos, taken by an old friend of mine named Ed Beckwith. One of the photos is the best view I have ever seen of the Ravenna Connection area, taken circa 1960. You can see the entire eastbound connection (that has the PRR ore train on it) and you can see a part of the westbound connection (beyond the PRR station). Both connecting tracks were engineered for 45 mph... And, this photo was taken from the caboose of an eastbound B&O freight train powered by a steam locomotive (just visible under the PRR bridge) in about 1955. The eastbound diesel-powered PRR passenger train (likely the overnight Clevelander between Cleveland, Youngstown, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia and New York City) is the on the Youngstown & Ravenna eastbound connection track and is still crossing Diamond Street. It is slowing for a stop at the Ravenna PRR station.... The eastbound connection track was abandoned about 1970 after a derailment. The westbound connection (used for trains in either direction after 1970) stayed in regular service until 1980 and was removed in 1986. I have heard from several potential shippers in the Mahoning Valley who are interested in seeing this track restored. I'm hopeful something comes of it so it could enable the restoration of Cleveland-Youngstown passenger rail service, too. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
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