October 7, 200816 yr This ratings crap is garbage. I'm beginning to wonder how many people look at good ratings and say the same thing. I can't say for sure because I don't know what city schools are like, but if several different reports say the same things from several different sources, I think it's cause to stop and wonder if there's any validity.
October 7, 200816 yr As far as the "they were good enough for me" argument goes...for MY children, I don't want what was good enough for me...I want better. That's exactly why I would rather have my children in Major Work in Cleveland than in Westlake schools.
October 8, 200816 yr if a kid is smart enough, he or she can sidestep the 'these schools suck' complaint by post-secondary enrollment at a nearby college, and pick up credits that actually matter (and on the state's dime). anecdote time: my AP US history class (6 students total) had a perfectly normal exam score distribution: 1, 2, 3, 3, 4, 5. if the teacher or class or district or what have you were such a strong influence on grades, why weren't they all 5s or 1s? it all has to do with the individual. cliche time: bloom where you're planted. the good thing about mediocre districts is that it's easy to be the valedictorian. 8^)
October 8, 200816 yr It's all about what the students and parents make of it. I've noticed that if the individual students don't put forth the effort to get into these programs, the education and study skills they receive still has a bit left to be desired, but I don't think that it's any worse than what my suburban public school friends got. It's all about taking advantage of opportunities presented to you, and in the CMSD, there are plenty, and the number is growing by the day. Amen, doc. I see that too with the student that I mentor in CMSD with him & his friends.
October 29, 200816 yr Cleveland school building plans on hold because of credit squeeze, Ohio opposition Saturday, October 25, 2008 / Thomas Ott / Plain Dealer Reporter The collapse of the credit markets threatens to further slow a Cleveland schools construction program that is already up to 20 months behind schedule. One piece of the program - construction of an additional West Side high school - faces a different kind of roadblock. The state, which pays two-thirds of the building campaign costs, says it may be cheaper to renovate and expand an existing school. More at cleveland.com http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/122492353686970.xml&coll=2
October 31, 200816 yr Wow my cousins attended and their children now attend two schools on this list. Cleveland's lowest-performing elementary schools to receive help Posted by dsims October 31, 2008 00:01AM Ten of Cleveland's lowest-performing elementary schools will get special attention as they try to shake off years of failure. The idea is to provide more resources that will help the struggling schools to improve. If they don't, the district could eventually opt to replace the whole staff and start over. Greg Henderson, one of the district's seven assistant superintendents, will focus exclusively on what are being called "turnaround schools": Albert B. Hart, Andrew J. Rickoff, Audubon, Buhrer, Carl and Louis Stokes Central Academy, Joseph M. Gallagher, Luis Munoz Marin, Nathan Hale, Patrick Henry and Wilbur Wright. More at cleveland.com http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008/10/clevelands_underperforming_ele.html[/hr]
October 31, 200816 yr Wow my cousins attended and their children now attend two schools on this list. So how are they from an "insider's" perspective?
October 31, 200816 yr So how are they from an "insider's" perspective? One of my cousins has mentioned that because of the "language" barrier, some students are not doing as well as their counterparts in other City schools or the ‘burbs. When we were growing up, we had no choice but to learn both English and Spanish. Yet there was a generation right after us, that was apart of the “lets not lose our heritage” movement. They are the children of first generation Latinos that live in the barrio and never learned or rarely use English. Now adults, they’ve never learned or are not English proficient and their children and school suffer (based on test results, etc.) because of that. I forgot which but 3/4 of the elementary schools on the Westside have administrations that are heavily Latino and looking from the outside, which could be part of the problem, because it filters up to Lincoln West. My grandparents and uncles moved to Cleveland, they decided to move to the near Westside from the Eastside barrio (near South High), where my mother and Aunt first lived because Lincoln-West & LMM were (at the time) “new” and multilingual. I think at one point Lincoln-West was the most culturally diverse school in Ohio. I do remember that the makeup of the student body speaks approxiametly 50 different languages. There is a rumor that they are going to start an “interpreters program” since they have so many children that speak so many languages. My cousins don’t have a problem with the High Schools as most of the older kids are freshman or sophomores. The one thing none of my cousins like is the elimination of middle/junior high schools. On the Westside most the kids go to Lincoln-West and a few go to the Graphic/computer design school at Max Hayes. Most of my family in Glenville has children that go to Glenville but quite a few are in the specialized schools, since the kids have clear ideas as to what they want to be/do when they graduate and didn’t want to go to “regular” school. They attend the “specialized” schools such as Success Tech, CSoTA, the Culinary Academy, School of Design, John Hay & Ginn. The one child that went to East High’s design school left because she didn’t feel safe in the school. Hopefully she’ll be able to get into the program at John Hay. [/color]
December 24, 200816 yr They have built numerous new schools in Cleveland. Has student performance improved? Like its traditional college rankings, U.S. News & World report now ranks American high schools, judging 1,900 schools. The gold are the top 100 schools in the country, Chagrin Falls High School is the only school from NE Ohio to make it. The following are ALL schools in NE Ohio that received awards for their academics. Notice how many CLEVELAND schools are on that list and how many SUBURBAN schools are missing. Seems like what they are doing is starting to work. Good job CMSD. Silver: Aurora High School, Avon Lake High School, Bay High School, Beachwood High School, Brecksville-Broadview Heights High School, Cleveland School of the Arts High School, Highland High School , Hudson High School, Kirtland High School, Revere High School, Rocky River High School, Solon High School, West Geauga High School, Westlake High School Bronze: James Ford Rhodes High School, Jane Addams Business Careers High School, John Marshall High School, Lakewood High School, Lorain Southview Pride High School, Martin Luther King Jr. High School, Max S. Hayes High School, Mayfield High School, North Olmsted High School, SuccessTech Academy School Charter School, Whitney Young High School (PD missed this one), Woodridge High School http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008/12/chagrin_falls_high_school_retu.html
December 24, 200816 yr So of the 25 NE Ohio high schools to make the rankings, 8 were in the Cleveland school district? That's one-third (32 percent) of all the NE Ohio high schools in the rankings. Questions are, what percentage of all NE Ohio high schools are in Cleveland, and what constitutes NE Ohio? "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 24, 200816 yr To your NE Ohio list, please add Canfield (bronze), Youngstown Chaney (bronze), Columbiana (bronze), Dalton (bronze), Hiland (bronze), North Canton Hoover (silver), Massillon Jackson (silver), Uniontown Lake (bronze), Norton (bronze), Norwayne (bronze), and Wooster (silver). http://www.usnews.com/directories/high-schools/index_html/state_id+OH/page_number+1/page_size+10/sort+alpha/name+/award+1+2+3+4/school_name+/county+/detail+less
December 24, 200816 yr So of the 25 NE Ohio high schools to make the rankings, 8 were in the Cleveland school district? That's one-third (32 percent) of all the NE Ohio high schools in the rankings. Questions are, what percentage of all NE Ohio high schools are in Cleveland, and what constitutes NE Ohio? Well KJP, it's a source of pride for many parents/children in the CMSD. My cousins who have children at L-W, Max Hayes, Glenville and CSoTA, let my family in Cleveland Hts., Shaker Hts. & Beachwood "have it" because their children were doing very well when CH, SH and Beachwood have high taxes and a history of good education but not on the list. My cousin thinks that CMSD get such a bad rap as they have so many school compared to suburban districts with have one maybe two high schools. Now with people demanding better schools and responsible school administration, schools appear to be improving. Also kids in the district now seem to have more opportunities to internships and non athletic scholarships.
December 24, 200816 yr There were roughly 90 schools in Ohio that were recognized out of approximately 800 PUBLIC high schools in the state (940 Public and Private for the record). So Cleveland represents roughly 10 percent of all High Schools in the state that received recognition. Pretty good for me.
December 29, 200816 yr John Hay Campus schools live up to expectations, get 'excellent' rating from state Posted by Thomas Ott/Plain Dealer Reporter December 28, 2008 21:30PM Cleveland's John Hay Campus isn't what it used to be. And to many people, that's a good thing. The former John Hay High School used to be known for test scores so low they trailed even the district's modest averages. Suspensions ran high; so did teacher absences. More at cleveland.com http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008/12/john_hay_campus_schools_live_u.html
December 29, 200816 yr My cousins daughter was denied entry to the school of architecture. From what I was told John Hay is now more competitive than the CSOA. This is a good thing. This standard at John Hay should be applied to all schools.
December 29, 200816 yr This is a good thing. This standard at John Hay should be applied to all schools. I don't think it should be applied to all schools. This would make them inaccessible to the general public, and that wouldn't be a positive thing. However, I do think that all CMSD schools should have that level of quality in education.
December 29, 200816 yr This is a good thing. This standard at John Hay should be applied to all schools. I don't think it should be applied to all schools. This would make them inaccessible to the general public, and that wouldn't be a positive thing. However, I do think that all CMSD schools should have that level of quality in education. The John Hays standard learning minimums should be the standard at every School.
December 30, 200816 yr This is a good thing. This standard at John Hay should be applied to all schools. I don't think it should be applied to all schools. This would make them inaccessible to the general public, and that wouldn't be a positive thing. However, I do think that all CMSD schools should have that level of quality in education. The John Hays standard learning minimums should be the standard at every School. As a requirement to get into the Cleveland schools?
December 30, 200816 yr This is a good thing. This standard at John Hay should be applied to all schools. I don't think it should be applied to all schools. This would make them inaccessible to the general public, and that wouldn't be a positive thing. However, I do think that all CMSD schools should have that level of quality in education. The John Hays standard learning minimums should be the standard at every School. As a requirement to get into the Cleveland schools? NO!!! ugh...nevermind
January 21, 200916 yr Lincoln-West High School rich in culture, but sparse in tools to teach English Posted by Thomas Ott/Plain Dealer Reporter January 20, 2009 21:41PM Principal Edward Muffet calls Lincoln-West High School a little United Nations. Students attending the school on Cleveland's near West Side hail from more than 30 countries and speak more than two dozen languages. In recognition of its international heritage, Lincoln-West celebrates every fall with a parade of flags, ethnic food, music and dancing. But the cultural riches also are a liability. More at cleveland.com http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/01/lincolnwest_high_school_rich_i.html
January 22, 200916 yr OneCommunity wants companies to donate computers for schools Donate old computers, help schools Thursday, January 22, 2009 / Shaheen Samavati / Plain Dealer Reporter OneCommunity, the local nonprofit broadband provider, has a new goal of putting 50,000 computers in Northeast Ohio schools over the next five years. The idea behind the "green computing" initiative is to give students technology skills for the workplace and, in turn, drive economic development in the region. The organization is calling on corporations to donate computers and other equipment so they can be refurbished and given to schools in 22 counties in Northeast Ohio. More at cleveland.com http://www.cleveland.com/business/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/business-11/1232616663110550.xml&coll=2
January 22, 200916 yr IS there any way they could spread this to people instead of just companies? I have two computers I could donate, not that old, and I'm sure that there are plenty of other people out there with the same situation. Does anybody have any direct contact info to somebody at one community? Otherwise I'll just send them a general email.
January 22, 200916 yr I looked at their website: www.onecommunity.org .. it doesn't look like they provide this for individuals, but you should definitely give them a call or drop them an e-mail: 216-923-2200, or [email protected]. Maybe they'll still take them if you drop it off yourself? Or maybe they can direct you to who would do this for individuals. Post whatever you find out here, so other people can get this information, too!
January 22, 200916 yr Lincoln-West High School rich in culture, but sparse in tools to teach English This story is so close to home for me. My uncle, went to Lincoln-West when it was first opened. When my grand parents moved here to Cleveland, they chose the westside because it was the "newer" barrio. When my grand parents moved here, the men in my family spoke little to no English and my Uncle had to learn English in 2.5 months in order to be admitted into the Cleveland School district. At that time, they didn't have any bilingual classes. My Grand mother and mothers youngest sister had to help him with his homework every day for a year and a half. Back then it was embarrassing not to have a working knowledge of English and it was equated as being "stupid". Even today, when you have an accent, some people look at you strange. As if you're not good enough. When my cousins attended L-W, there were lots of first generation Latinos', Italians, Irish, eastern European, etc. that were at Lincoln-West. At times when I visit the area I see, PR, Dominican, El Salvadorian, Cuban, Honduran, Colombian, etc flags or cliques of people. Now my cousins' children are/will be attending L-W, and it along with Lakewood are two of the most diverse schools. I think that those children will have an advantage later in life.
January 26, 200916 yr Instead of being praised, people are actually upset with this guy. This is what happens when people speak the truth. http://cbs13.com/local/nevada.chancellor.education.2.917428.html Backlash Erupts Over NV Chancellor's Comments LAS VEGAS Republicans have sharply criticized university system Chancellor Jim Rogers' comments about parents in his State of the System address. Rogers, who has been fighting Republican Gov. Jim Gibbons' proposed drastic budget cuts to higher education, took aim at an apathetic public in Friday's speech. "Your only relationship with the education system is to ship your unprepared kids to school, not with the expectation of success, but with the demand that an education system, inadequately funded, develop and/or repair children that you as a parent did not prepare for school or support while your children attended school," Rogers said. In a joint statement, Assemblyman Ed Goedhart, R-Amargosa Valley, and Nevada Republican Party Chair Sue Lowden said it's unfair to blame parents for education failures. "Jim Rogers owes every caring parent in the state a public apology," they said. "For Chancellor Rogers to blame the failure of the government-run education system on parents is nothing short of outrageous." Andy Matthews, vice president of communications for the conservative think-tank Nevada Policy Research Institute, said legislative spending on higher education increased 60 percent between the 2002 and 2007 fiscal years. "Chancellor Rogers provided an outstanding example of what happens when Nevada's public officials choose to engage in finger-pointing at the expense of taking responsibility or offering innovative solutions to our fiscal challenges," Matthews said in a statement. Rogers, in his address, said parents might have to face tax increases and sacrifice so that their children can go to college. "You have to take part in your child's education," Rogers said. "Your responsibility does not stop as they walk out the door to catch the bus." State Senate Majority Leader Steven Horsford, D-Las Vegas, said in a statement that some sacrifices, including cuts to education, might be necessary. But Horsford said Gibbons' proposed overall 36 percent cut to higher education is "too much." Under the governor's plan, the cuts would be roughly 50 percent at University of Nevada campuses in Las Vegas and Reno.
January 26, 200916 yr I thought republicans were in favor of personal responsibility. Apparently that only applies to political opponents. Parents are the number one reason some kids and districts do better than others. New buildings and computers don't have nearly as much to do with it.
January 26, 200916 yr I know, you'd think these proponents of so-called "family values" would be for actually raising their kids right. I guess for many of my fellow Republicans, "family values" really doesn't mean much more beyond god, guns, gay bashing, and anti abortion agendas.
January 26, 200916 yr Yeah, if I were in charge of promoting a "family" agenda, I would go about it an entirely different way. They use it as code for a batch of unrelated issues. I would focus on what makes a family unit functional, and what families can do that is positive.
February 4, 200916 yr Cleveland schools CEO Sanders outlines plan to upgrade district By SHANNON MORTLAND 3:06 pm, February 3, 2009 Despite a projected deficit that could range from $18 million to $83 million in the 2009-2010 school year, Cleveland Metropolitan School District CEO Eugene Sanders outlined an ambitious plan to become what he called a “premier” school district. The five-point plan that will be implemented in the next 12 to 24 months includes focusing on turning around 10 of the district’s lowest-performing schools, curriculum innovation and choice, safety and security, technology and constituent engagement. More at crainscleveland.com http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20090203/FREE/902039952
February 4, 200916 yr I wish Mr. Sanders wouldn't be afraid of offending people and just focus on the real problem with Cleveland Public schools. Many kids don't want to learn; other kids are afraid of learning or else they'll be considered sell outs. And a lot of their parents refuse to parent. Instead of Mr. Sanders cracking down on teachers, security, and technology, THIS is what he should be focusing on. It's not like if a bunch of Westlake and Beachwood and Hawken teachers started working at the Public Schools there would be any real difference. Perhaps some nominal one, but things would not improve until the kids get their act together and the parents start giving a s**t. Now how Mr. Sanders can go about doing so - how I have no clue. Perhaps saving the ones you can is a start i.e. isolating the quality students, the ones who would succeed if not for peer pressure or fears of being abused by their peers. Certainly etiquette rules that go beyond dress codes i.e. no cell phones, no talking back to the teacher, no fights or else an immediate suspension or expulsion. Didn't the DC Schools' Superintendent (or whatever the title is) do something similar with good results?
February 4, 200916 yr I think that getting new teachers could actually be a good idea, and I think segregating kids is a horrible one, and one that could open them up to even more persecution. Good teachers know how to inspire kids to learn. And at the end of the day, that's what troubled kids need. They need someone who's willing to mentor them, to lead them, to nurture them, regardless of what their background is like at home. It takes passion, and a commitment to these students, a lot of whom have troubled backgrounds. Which is why I think Sanders' plan to integrate social workers is a good idea, too. I'm not saying that parents don't play a part. They play a huge part. But how do you force parents to love their kids? Some of these kids are just completely unloved, and a lot of them don't know how to parent correctly. And so they need to be given a chance. Someone who believes in them. It's hard work. And quite honestly, people would rather not do it. That's why these types of kids constantly suffer .. because it's easy, as a teacher, to get bitter. I can certainly understand that. But ultimately, in order for there to be any change or signs of growth, I think strong people need to come alongside them and mentor them, inspire them. They should not get cast aside.
February 4, 200916 yr I think that getting new teachers could actually be a good idea, and I think segregating kids is a horrible one, SCRETCHING HALT! Segregating kids in terms of reading, mathematical, and all other educational ability is essential to a school system. You need to separate those who want to learn and those who don't immediately, along with specific curriculum's tailored towards vocational, college prep, and honors students.
February 4, 200916 yr Segregating kids in terms of reading, mathematical, and all other educational ability is essential to a school system. You need to separate those who want to learn and those who don't immediately, along with specific curriculum's tailored towards vocational, college prep, and honors students. I would say that's true to an extent. But separating them completely can make them feel like outcasts, I think. I dunno. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it is more helpful to separate them.
February 4, 200916 yr Segregating kids in terms of reading, mathematical, and all other educational ability is essential to a school system. You need to separate those who want to learn and those who don't immediately, along with specific curriculum's tailored towards vocational, college prep, and honors students. I would say that's true to an extent. But separating them completely can make them feel like outcasts, I think. I dunno. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it is more helpful to separate them. That happens at every school. There are some misconceptions about CPS, there are lots of bright students. Tbideon, do you have children or children in the system? All schools have standard, expanded and advanced placement classes.
February 4, 200916 yr I wish Mr. Sanders wouldn't be afraid of offending people and just focus on the real problem with Cleveland Public schools. Many kids don't want to learn; other kids are afraid of learning or else they'll be considered sell outs. And a lot of their parents refuse to parent. Instead of Mr. Sanders cracking down on teachers, security, and technology, THIS is what he should be focusing on. It's not like if a bunch of Westlake and Beachwood and Hawken teachers started working at the Public Schools there would be any real difference. Perhaps some nominal one, but things would not improve until the kids get their act together and the parents start giving a s**t. With all due respect: Sanders is not god; he can no more solve the social problems that turn out unmotivated kids than you or I can. I'm guessing that his policies focus on schools and teachers not because he's afraid of offending people or because he's stupid, but because he is, by all accounts, a competent and realistic school administrator. Now how Mr. Sanders can go about doing so - how I have no clue. Perhaps saving the ones you can is a start i.e. isolating the quality students, the ones who would succeed if not for peer pressure or fears of being abused by their peers. Certainly etiquette rules that go beyond dress codes i.e. no cell phones, no talking back to the teacher, no fights or else an immediate suspension or expulsion. Didn't the DC Schools' Superintendent (or whatever the title is) do something similar with good results? This is why it must be torture to be an education policymaker...because everyone has been to school, everyone has an opinion, no matter how uninformed, about what's wrong with "the schools" [as if they were a monolith] and and an idea how to fix them. This isn't to single you out- I have no more idea than you do-but I suspect neither of us will come up with some big idea- like separating the motivated from the unmotivated students, or enforcing rules, that isn't already being done to some extent. The most unmotivated kids already drop out. I suspect there are lots of expulsions as it is. And I suspect that this theoretical bright line between unmotivated and motivated kids is much, much fuzzier than we make it out to be.
February 4, 200916 yr ^What I do know from my teacher friends is that presently it is very difficult to expel the bad kids even if they're on the phone in class, screaming out racial epitaphs at each other, listening to music, intimidating students and teachers, fighting with each other and security guards (from what I understand, attacking teachers are expellable offenses but I have heard mixed things on this), etc. I think explulsion should be automatic for virtually all of these acts (or at least if repeated a certain number of times), and then while the concern would be where they go next (different schools, on the streets, juvenile detention centers/halfway houses/some kind of "home", etc), at least the rest of them, perhaps the majority of the class, along with the teachers will be spared this insanity and get the education without feers of reprisals from these parasites.
February 4, 200916 yr ^I hear ya that it's unfair that bad kids hold back good kids. And I think you point to the biggest problem with zero tolerance policies: what to do with all those expelled kids. I guess I just disagree with your assumption that Dr. Sanders doesn't understand this problem or hasn't been wrestling with this question. It would actually pretty interesting to hear him respond on this point.
February 4, 200916 yr I would say that's true to an extent. But separating them completely can make them feel like outcasts, I think. I dunno. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it is more helpful to separate them. Better they feel like outcasts than bring down those who are interested and show the aptitude for learning. And perhaps that same negative social pressure that they would apply to students who are interested (i.e., calling someone a sell out for doing well in school) will have the same, but opposite, affect on them (I better focus so I don't get left behind). You are tested right from the get go, even in your elementary class, to join various levels of reading and math groups. This continues throughout all education, even at the highest levels. Think about college - the application process evaluates what level of student you are. K-12 is no different, except you aren't rejected, you're just assigned to your appropriate level so you can receive the appropriate level of instruction. They also do this so they can identify the really bad problem kids and make sure classes aren't overloaded with too many of them.
February 4, 200916 yr Better they feel like outcasts than bring down those who are interested and show the aptitude for learning. Hmmm .. maybe this is one of the reasons that they don't do well, don'tcha think? Because people keep them putting them down, labeling them, marking their identity as underachievers. What they need to hear is the exact opposite, that they have a future, that someone actually gives a FUCK about them. They need someone to inspire them. I'm not saying that they don't need special attention. Maybe a lot of them do. And maybe they need to be separated so that it doesn't constantly drag other students' learning down. But they need the RIGHT special attention .. not someone who's going to constantly tell them that they're less than anyone else just because they struggle to learn like everyone else. A lot of kids' brains are different, and they just learn differently. Whether these students are separated or not, I think they need to be treated with the same type of care as other students. But obviously, that's a much more complicated beast to tackle because, unfortunately, the rest of the world has no patience for these types of students, either.
February 10, 200916 yr Pioneering high school on GE's Nela Park campus focuses on science, math Posted by Thomas Ott/Plain Dealer Reporter February 10, 2009 03:00AM Categories: Education, Real Time News EAST CLEVELAND — An unused four-story building on GE's Nela Park campus in East Cleveland sprang back to life Monday as a pioneering public high school. MC2 STEM High School, operated by the Cleveland district, is preparing 82 ninth-graders for the key career fields of science, technology, engineering and mathematics. The school opened last summer and held classes in the downtown Great Lakes Science Center until the GE space was renovated with $4 million from foundations and business groups. More at cleveland.com http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/02/electric_atmosphere_for_learni.html
February 10, 200916 yr Jpop, I think that is ridiculous. That sounds like my friend who lives out in Palo Alto who tells me that in their t-ball leagues, no one wins or loses the game. The reality of life is that there are winners and losers. Some kids are born brighter, some are born with better parents who increase the kids chances of succeeding, and some, unfortunately, are born with neither. I volunteer at CMSD twice a month, and I can tell you, there is absolutely little chance for the kids who actually want to succeed. Hell, even the ones that are "excelling," can usually not hold a candle to a kid from a suburban/parochial school. I'm not blaming the kids, but I am going to blame the parents. Another mistake the CMSD made was when they did away with the multi-track plan. This denial of legitimate differences in educational capabilities was absurd. Some kids are meant to excel in school, some aren't. For the ones that aren't, it makes a lot more sense to begin teaching them skills for them to succeed. These kids have little interest in school and will only bring down the ones who do. Call this cruel, I'll call it reality. If these kids were just shown "extra attention" or that "we care," it generally would make no difference.
February 10, 200916 yr I still think that everything should be done to try and inspire these kids to learn. I'm not saying it's easy. But you're just tossing them by the wayside and saying, "Fuck them." This is something that has happened all their lives. This is a culture they've been brought up in. That's why they have difficulty learning .. because they're surrounded by people who don't believe in them. I know it seems that the obvious response is to just reject them because "they don't want to learn". I'd be willing to bet that these kids do want to make something of themselves, but their environment hasn't encouraged them properly. Your callous attitude stinks, though. Please don't continue to volunteer at CMSD. I think you're exactly what they don't need. Also, this line of discussion looks like it was edited because it went off-topic, and it occured several days ago. I'm not really interested in opening this up again, but if you want to continue this, please PM me.
February 10, 200916 yr "Please don't continue to volunteer at CMSD." JPOP AKA: "If you do not agree with me, then everything you do, regardless of its virtue, I will denigrate." "I think you're exactly what they don't need." JPOP How in the world would you know? Do you want to ask my little from Big Brothers Big Sisters? Do you want to ask the kids at Glenville and South High I have taught? I devote time to those kids and try my absolute best to inspire them to learn. Just because I have a realisitic view (err am in disagreement with you) does not mean I am what they "don't need." You act like I go there and tell them that the odds are they are not going to succeed in life. Regardless, virtually everything you said I agree with. However, I simply think some of these kids are unsalvageable (not "fluffy" enough of a word?). Therefore, we need to focus on the ones who, when put in the proper environment, will take advantage of it. Furthermore, by denying that a lot of these troublesome kids will only harm the ones that are achieving, you are also sacrificing the achievers in the name of trying to do something that likely won't work. Yes, there are always great examples of kids who beat the odds, and I applaud that. However, the reality is that a majority of the ones who start down that path, do not turn around. So please, it does absolutely no good attacking me personally for a viewpoint which, albeit different than yours, is perfectly rational.
February 10, 200916 yr Gonna have to agree with Palijandro here, for the most part. I know a lot of teachers and the points he's making are made by all of them. I recently read a report commissined by the Cleveland Schools in the wake of the 2007 SuccessTech shooting, and it made similar points. With some kids the problems at home are severe enough that expecting them to perform in school is irrational. Their coping mechanisms are not conducive to anyone learning, or to civilization generally. This problem goes far beyond the schools and so must the solution.
February 10, 200916 yr Gonna have to agree with Palijandro here, for the most part. I know a lot of teachers and the points he's making are made by all of them. I recently read a report commissined by the Cleveland Schools in the wake of the 2007 SuccessTech shooting, and it made similar points. With some kids the problems at home are severe enough that expecting them to perform in school is irrational. Their coping mechanisms are not conducive to anyone learning, or to civilization generally. This problem goes far beyond the schools and so must the solution. Exactly. And I'm aware of that. Like I said before, I don't pretend that this is a small problem, with easy, magic answers. It's not at all. It's a huge, deeply complicated problem I just feel like a lot of people have responded with an attitude of "Well, they're troublemakers, they're lost, so forget it. It's pointless. They're not willing to learn." I don't think the response should be as quick or simple as that, though. It's my opinion (and I've never pretended that anything I've said in regard to this is anything but .. if I've come across as too strong or offended anyone, I apologize .. especially you, Palijandro), I'm only speaking from the desire to see every student get a chance to succeed, and if some kids need extra help, I'd like to see them get that help in the school system rather than see them swept under the rug. It's probably a bit hypocritcal on my part because I don't personally involve myself proactively in bettering kids like this, and I admit that. But there are people who are gifted in reaching students in such a way that it inspires them to learn despite their circumstances, and we need more of those people teaching, not just taking any teacher that comes along. And if people aren't willing to inspire whatever student comes their way, they shouldn't be teaching. That's a strong statement, but I believe it to be true. Obviously, that's tricky because the pool is small, but so often, people who are true heroes are the ones who are willing to do what it takes to save people .. stuff that most other people wouldn't be willing to do because it requires a deep selflessness that most people don't have. A lot of students do come from very troubled backgrounds, and that isn't a teacher's fault. But to take a teaching job, especially in an urban school system, without realizing that there are going to be kids with troubled pasts is certainly naive, and teachers (again, especially in an urban school system where so many of these problems are generally more prevalent) should take those jobs wanting to make a real difference. It's certainly not for the glamour or the paychecks. What other reason is there, then, really? They could go and do something else, quite frankly. Something they enjoy more.
February 10, 200916 yr A lot of students do come from very troubled backgrounds, and that isn't a teacher's fault. But to take a teaching job, especially in an urban school system, without realizing that there are going to be kids with troubled pasts is certainly naive, and teachers (again, especially in an urban school system where so many of these problems are generally more prevalent) should take those jobs wanting to make a real difference. It's certainly not for the glamour or the paychecks. What other reason is there, then, really? They could go and do something else, quite frankly. Something they enjoy more. Agreed whole heartedly. It's a very difficult problem, and it requires superman-esque teachers. I am just worried that teachers do not get paid enough to attract an abundance of these people. I understand teachers need to be motivated by something other than $$, but it plays a very important role.
April 4, 200916 yr Some decent (though incomplete) journalism from the PD about the high salaries of the top execs at CMSD: http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/04/cleveland_schools_administrati.html I have trouble getting bent out of shape about specific high salaries if overall, the money going to admin is not out of line with other districts, which article hints might be the case. But I was definite a bit surprised so many admins made such big paychecks...
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