Can someone who's to Lunken recently post some details about the status of the facilities there? How many regional jets could Lunken handle without needing to invest in additional facilities?

Well, it depends on what you mean by "facilities."  Airside facilities are in pretty good shape for an RJ, many of which are similar in size to the corporate jets that already use the airport.  In fact, a Boeing Business Jet (737-based) has little trouble on 6200 feet, except maybe on a really hot day with a full load.

 

The real issue is the landside.  The terminal is not equipped for TSA, nor does it have anything in the way of baggage handling/screening areas or passenger hold areas, check-in desks, office space.  An RJ has somewhere between 31 and 90 seats, most commonly the 50 or 70 seat variants.  Lunken would basically need a larger, more modern terminal to handle what you're thinking about.

 

But none of this gets to the real problem - RJs are being phased out by many airlines.  The economics aren't what they used to be when fuel was cheaper.  Even Allegiant here wants to come in with 160-seat aircraft.

 

Edit: another thing I thought of is that this is a big political hot potato.  In order to upgrade or replace the terminal for this RJ service, the city would probably have to apply for an FAA grant, which entails changes to the master plan, an environmental review, and a public comment period.  Mt. Lookout, and to a lesser extent Mt. Washington and Madeira, have always been vocal in its opposition to increased activity at Lunken (nevermind that an RJ is much quieter than propeller planes of old - the 70 DNL noise contour for an RJ is entirely on the airport).  Getting that service off the ground would be a nightmare.  It's probably not something the city wants to get into.

You mention RJs being phased out, but at CVG, the opposite is true. Delta is the only carrier left operating full-sized jets. I think this positions Lunken well if the city chooses to get into this business.

You mention RJs being phased out, but at CVG, the opposite is true. Delta is the only carrier left operating full-sized jets. I think this positions Lunken well if the city chooses to get into this business.

 

I think you are on the wrong page. The RJ, or regional jet, is being phased out all over. Remember Comair, remember Concourse C at CVG? These were all designed around the RJ, and more specifically the product of Bombardier of Canada. Comair was their biggest customer. The reason the RJ is disappearing from airline usage is due to their terrible fuel consumption. As airline fuel prices have gone up their favor has gone down.

You mention RJs being phased out, but at CVG, the opposite is true. Delta is the only carrier left operating full-sized jets. I think this positions Lunken well if the city chooses to get into this business.

 

I think you are on the wrong page. The RJ, or regional jet, is being phased out all over. Remember Comair, remember Concourse C at CVG? These were all designed around the RJ, and more specifically the product of Bombardier of Canada. Comair was their biggest customer. The reason the RJ is disappearing from airline usage is due to their terrible fuel consumption. As airline fuel prices have gone up their favor has gone down.

 

Correct analysis. CVG may really be in trouble in the next 5 years as Delta has indicated they will remove all 50 seaters from the fleet and move to large regional jets (70+ seats) & small mainline jets like the Boeing 717.

Delta and others are phasing out the 50 seat RJ but continuing with, and taking new inventory of, the 70 seat plus RJs, correct????

Delta and others are phasing out the 50 seat RJ but continuing with, and taking new inventory of, the 70 seat plus RJs, correct????

 

That was my understanding too. Wasn't there just some news that United (could've been American, maybe?) was eliminating their last mainline route from CVG and replacing it with an RJ?

You mention RJs being phased out, but at CVG, the opposite is true. Delta is the only carrier left operating full-sized jets. I think this positions Lunken well if the city chooses to get into this business.

 

I think you will find out the so-called RJ, anywhere from 30, to 50, to 70 seats is biting the dust. They are just not fuel efficient. So as fuel costs rise they are disappearing. Comair was one of the pioneers of the RJ and flew many of the 50 and 70 passenger models. They were one of the biggest customers of Bombardier out of Canada who built them. Since Comair bit the dust, just how many articles have you read concerning these RJs? They may be shipping them down to South America or somewhere, but I hear very little about anyone operating them in the US.

 

I think you are on the wrong page. The RJ, or regional jet, is being phased out all over. Remember Comair, remember Concourse C at CVG? These were all designed around the RJ, and more specifically the product of Bombardier of Canada. Comair was their biggest customer. The reason the RJ is disappearing from airline usage is due to their terrible fuel consumption. As airline fuel prices have gone up their favor has gone down.

 

Correct analysis. CVG may really be in trouble in the next 5 years as Delta has indicated they will remove all 50 seaters from the fleet and move to large regional jets (70+ seats) & small mainline jets like the Boeing 717.

Allegiant Air kicks tires at Lunken

Chris Wetterich Staff reporter- Cincinnati Business Courier

 

 

Allegiant Air, the ultra-low-cost carrier that provides flights to vacation destinations from small U.S. cities, had several employees visit Lunken Airport recently but there is no word yet whether it will start flights out of the East End.

 

“They kind of looked around the airport, taking it in,” said Lunken Airport manager Fred Anderton.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2013/08/06/allegiant-air-kicks-tires-at-lunken.html

Can you visualize taking a low cost vacation flight out of Lunken with the wife and al the kids? Wives always have to take the kitchen sink with them on any vacation trip. So where are the facilities at Lunken to handle any amount of luggage? Hell they don't have the facilities to handle luggage period. You carry yours on to the plane and then pick it up and carry it into the terminal when you disembark. They are terribly equipped to handle any real baggage handling. Cincinnazti should stay out of the commercial airline business. Lunken is a great and convenient business plane facility, serves our local corporate private jets very well. But as a commercial faciliity, forget it. Why? What is the advantage? CVG is a very capable facility and should serve the commercial needs of Cincinnati. Anything else dilutes the needs of the entire area. And it also speaks of local government hipocrisy. We have a beautiful facility at CVG and it should be used to the advantage of the entire Greater Cincinnati area. Anything else is just across the river politics which should have no place in our future.

 

This post is full of so many wrong things its insane.

 

"Cincinnati should stay out"? Foolish. The other constant complaint is tha CVG SUCKS and cincinnati doesn't do anything about it. If Allegiant air and the city can find a way to add 3-6 flights a week the rest will be figured out. You think Allegiant would say yes if they didn't figure out the luggage, etc? Seriously?

 

There are huge advantages. Cheeper parking, way smaller airport, Etc. have you ever flown out of Long Beach airport in LA? It's amazing. It's maybe 3 times the size of Lunken and its Jet Blue's LA hub.

 

The city can't MAKE CVG better. They can offer another option to people. That's wha they're doing.

Every time I say something against intraregional business poaching, kjbrill is there to tell me how great corporate welfare competition is. But when it comes to offering an alternative to Delta's stranglehold on CVG, with a unique product that CVG can't really offer, it's a bad thing because it's intraregional competition. I sincerely don't get it.

 

If anyone wants to use this post as a springboard to talk about corporate welfare, I'm sure there's a better thread for that.

Yeah, kjbrill, you make it sound like this would be the first-ever general aviation airport that gained commercial service and had to build facilities to serve it.  That is not the case.  CVG was a tiny general aviation/ex-military airport before it gained airline service, and they built out the terminal just fine as demand dictated.  The aviation consulting industry was born right here in Cincinnati because Kenton and Boone counties didn't have the expertise to develop CVG, and there is now a nationwide body of knowledge, as well as FAA guidance, on the very issues you mention.  It won't be without challenges, of course, but it's not impossible by any means.

 

As a recipient of federal aviation grant funding, Lunken (and the city) are bound to certain assurances, one of which is that it must accommodate any aviation user that can safely operate at the airport.  Obviously a 747 can't operate at the field because the runway is too short, and the airport can make certain restrictions on operating hours by certain classes of aircraft to appease neighbors, but it can't put a blanket prohibition on commercial activity.  See the saga of Dallas-Love Field for an example of the pitfalls of a city attempting to prevent commercial service at an airport.

 

And as for "what is the advantage" of limited commercial service being added to a GA airport, ask a traveler at Akron-Canton, Islip, White Plains, Orlando-Sanford, or any other number cities that successfully developed a small amount of service at reliever airports outside of big cities.  OCtoCincy mentioned a few with lower costs and a shorter transit time through the airport, but I'd add these airports are often closer to the homes of the very suburban families for whom low-cost/vacation carriers are particularly appealing.  It's one thing for a solo business traveler to fly on an expensive Delta flight somewhere, it's entirely another for a family with kids to do so.  Give a family of five the option to fly from a smaller, less crowded airport for a lower price than Delta at CVG, and you've got your answer as to the advantages.

They fly out of Rickenbacker in Columbus.  All of their flights are non-stop direct flights to mostly Florida destinations from this region so it would be a great service for families going to Orlando to see D World. 

I fly a lot for work, sometimes to the middle of nowhere, and a lot of the smaller airports that I end up at in the little CRJ 50 seat planes are the size of Lunken or smaller and manage to handle typical luggage.  You exit the plane onto the tarmac and wait while they load the luggage onto a cart and drive it over. Some airports have an indoor area where you wait, and the luggage truck drives up to some sliding doors.  It's pretty low-tech but it works just fine. I imagine Lunken would function similarly.

Lunken is more centrally located than many small airports with commercial flights. That seems like a huge advantage. It's certainly more central than CVG, too.

I'd love to see Allegiant at LUK.  My primary concern is lack of parking, everything else is just about a non-issue.

We already have air shuttle service from Lunken to I believe Chicago and New York City serving the business community. This is the kind of service which belongs at Lunken, business people making one day trips with either no or minimal luggage in the form of an overnight bag. Fast convenient departures to the business traveller without the hassle of security checks. That has value to the Cincinnati business community, and as usage permits be expanded.

 

Take a look the hangers around Lucken housing the corporate business jets. P&G just keeps expanding theirs. They extended one of the runways at Lunken not to handle 747s but business jets with the range to handle transoceanic flights. The business hangers have exhausted about all the available space, already intruding into the Reeves golf course. These facilities are very valuable to the Cincinnati business community. That is where Lunken serves Cincinnati and serves it very well.

 

Better pay attention to the business community rather than some family wanting a cheaper flight to Disney World.

 

Of course Cincinnati cannot MAKE CVG do anything. But they surely can stop all the grousing and bickering and figure out ways to encourage lower cost alternative commercial carriers there as Delta continues to shrink their operation. Everyone continues to bash Delta concerning their ticket rates out of CVG. What I never hear about are the takeoff/landing fees they have to pay at CVG compared to other airports. How did CVG manage the costs of all the expansion which was taken on? Do they still have long term debt to the point their takeoff/landing fees are exhorbitant compared to other airports? Why do we never read any reports on that aspect of the business other than our inept news media.

We already have air shuttle service from Lunken to I believe Chicago and New York City serving the business community. This is the kind of service which belongs at Lunken, business people making one day trips with either no or minimal luggage in the form of an overnight bag. Fast convenient departures to the business traveller without the hassle of security checks. That has value to the Cincinnati business community, and as usage permits be expanded.

 

Take a look the hangers around Lucken housing the corporate business jets. P&G just keeps expanding theirs. They extended one of the runways at Lunken not to handle 747s but business jets with the range to handle transoceanic flights. The business hangers have exhausted about all the available space, already intruding into the Reeves golf course. These facilities are very valuable to the Cincinnati business community. That is where Lunken serves Cincinnati and serves it very well.

 

Better pay attention to the business community rather than some family wanting a cheaper flight to  World.

 

Of course Cincinnati cannot MAKE CVG do anything. But they surely can stop all the grousing and bickering and figure out ways to encourage lower cost alternative commercial carriers there as Delta continues to shrink their operation. Everyone continues to bash Delta concerning their ticket rates out of CVG. What I never hear about are the takeoff/landing fees they have to pay at CVG compared to other airports. How did CVG manage the costs of all the expansion which was taken on? Do they still have long term debt to the point their takeoff/landing fees are exhorbitant compared to other airports? Why do we never read any reports on that aspect of the business other than our inept news media.

 

I'm a Cleveland bystander but interested in this thread because I follow the aviation business (and am a fan of Martha Lunken's writings in Flying Magazine!).

 

One thing to not over look is the commercial service will actually help the FBO's service the business community better.  There will be a minimal number of flights causing ground traffic, but they are in line to get all the fuel and maintenance work.  So someone at LUK will stand to improve their bottom line, and with it the service they can provide their biz jet clients. 

 

I'm not sure of the financing at CVG but it would be interesting to hear one of those consultants take on the increased competition in the region.  I'm sure there are lots of case studies to contribute, including the competition between CLE and CAK up north here.

Can you visualize taking a low cost vacation flight out of Lunken with the wife and al the kids? Wives always have to take the kitchen sink with them on any vacation trip. So where are the facilities at Lunken to handle any amount of luggage? Hell they don't have the facilities to handle luggage period. You carry yours on to the plane and then pick it up and carry it into the terminal when you disembark. They are terribly equipped to handle any real baggage handling. Cincinnazti should stay out of the commercial airline business. Lunken is a great and convenient business plane facility, serves our local corporate private jets very well. But as a commercial faciliity, forget it. Why? What is the advantage? CVG is a very capable facility and should serve the commercial needs of Cincinnati. Anything else dilutes the needs of the entire area. And it also speaks of local government hipocrisy. We have a beautiful facility at CVG and it should be used to the advantage of the entire Greater Cincinnati area. Anything else is just across the river politics which should have no place in our future.

 

 

Yes I could picture this. The terminals are small so you don't need luggage and people movers. I used to fly into Ft. Walton Eglin, before they renovated

their terminal, often and it was great. If they can share runways with an Air Force base no issue adding a few daily commercial flights at Lunken.

 

Lunken wasted thousands of dollars, says audit

 

Cincinnati has lost hundreds of thousands of dollars that could have gone toward improvements at city-owned Lunken Airport, because of poor contract management and technology problems.

 

A recent internal audit by the city highlights five problems, including:

 

• The Metropolitan Sewer District, which stores byproducts created at a nearby treatment plant on airport grounds, owes the city $420,000 for six years in back rent.

 

• The city didn’t collect landing fees for a “couple years” because of a poor tracking system. The estimated loss, if the problem continued for two years, was $120,000.

 

• The city is charging Sky Galley restaurant about $1,000 less in monthly rent than city law requires. City law also requires Lunken to collect a higher percentage of the restaurant’s gross revenue than the city has been collecting. Result: The city lost more than $105,000 in revenue.

 

• Landmark, the airport’s fixed-base operator that provides services such as fueling and aircraft rentals, has not paid a 1 percent fee on all revenues since 2011.

 

• Leases have expired on an unspecified number of hangers and other buildings at the East End airport. The city is collecting rent on the properties on a month-to-month basis, although auditors said the city might be able to raise rates if leases were actually in place.

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artikkel?NoCache=1&Dato=20130828&Kategori=NEWS01&Lopenr=308280107&Ref=AR

Can you visualize taking a low cost vacation flight out of Lunken with the wife and al the kids? Wives always have to take the kitchen sink with them on any vacation trip. So where are the facilities at Lunken to handle any amount of luggage? Hell they don't have the facilities to handle luggage period. You carry yours on to the plane and then pick it up and carry it into the terminal when you disembark. They are terribly equipped to handle any real baggage handling. Cincinnazti should stay out of the commercial airline business. Lunken is a great and convenient business plane facility, serves our local corporate private jets very well. But as a commercial faciliity, forget it. Why? What is the advantage? CVG is a very capable facility and should serve the commercial needs of Cincinnati. Anything else dilutes the needs of the entire area. And it also speaks of local government hipocrisy. We have a beautiful facility at CVG and it should be used to the advantage of the entire Greater Cincinnati area. Anything else is just across the river politics which should have no place in our future.

 

 

Yes I could picture this. The terminals are small so you don't need luggage and people movers. I used to fly into Ft. Walton Eglin, before they renovated

their terminal, often and it was great. If they can share runways with an Air Force base no issue adding a few daily commercial flights at Lunken.

 

What Air Force base are you speaking of? Where is an air force base even close to Lunken? If you are speaking of WPAFB there is absolutely no connection. I trhink you are off in some neverland somewhere.

He pretty clearly says Ft Walton Eglin.

Lunken wasted thousands of dollars, says audit

 

Cincinnati has lost hundreds of thousands of dollars that could have gone toward improvements at city-owned Lunken Airport, because of poor contract management and technology problems.

 

A recent internal audit by the city highlights five problems, including:

 

• The Metropolitan Sewer District, which stores byproducts created at a nearby treatment plant on airport grounds, owes the city $420,000 for six years in back rent.

 

• The city didn’t collect landing fees for a “couple years” because of a poor tracking system. The estimated loss, if the problem continued for two years, was $120,000.

 

• The city is charging Sky Galley restaurant about $1,000 less in monthly rent than city law requires. City law also requires Lunken to collect a higher percentage of the restaurant’s gross revenue than the city has been collecting. Result: The city lost more than $105,000 in revenue.

 

• Landmark, the airport’s fixed-base operator that provides services such as fueling and aircraft rentals, has not paid a 1 percent fee on all revenues since 2011.

 

• Leases have expired on an unspecified number of hangers and other buildings at the East End airport. The city is collecting rent on the properties on a month-to-month basis, although auditors said the city might be able to raise rates if leases were actually in place.

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artikkel?NoCache=1&Dato=20130828&Kategori=NEWS01&Lopenr=308280107&Ref=AR

 

You want to complain about a few hundreds of thousands of dollars claimed to be lost by management at Lunken? Another city government bashing tirade. The fact is the operating costs of a commercial airport runs into the millions of dollars. If you want to question the efficiency of the Lunken management, question the City. But that has virtually northing to do with whether Lunken should host commercial flights. That is strictly a city government question. And if they cannot manage an airport aimed at business corporate travel usage, how in the world can there be anything but a disaster at bringing commercial traffic in?

I trhink you are off in some neverland somewhere.

Can you visualize taking a low cost vacation flight out of Lunken with the wife and al the kids? Wives always have to take the kitchen sink with them on any vacation trip. So where are the facilities at Lunken to handle any amount of luggage? Hell they don't have the facilities to handle luggage period. You carry yours on to the plane and then pick it up and carry it into the terminal when you disembark. They are terribly equipped to handle any real baggage handling. Cincinnazti should stay out of the commercial airline business. Lunken is a great and convenient business plane facility, serves our local corporate private jets very well. But as a commercial faciliity, forget it. Why? What is the advantage? CVG is a very capable facility and should serve the commercial needs of Cincinnati. Anything else dilutes the needs of the entire area. And it also speaks of local government hipocrisy. We have a beautiful facility at CVG and it should be used to the advantage of the entire Greater Cincinnati area. Anything else is just across the river politics which should have no place in our future.

 

 

Yes I could picture this. The terminals are small so you don't need luggage and people movers. I used to fly into Ft. Walton Eglin, before they renovated

their terminal, often and it was great. If they can share runways with an Air Force base no issue adding a few daily commercial flights at Lunken.

 

What Air Force base are you speaking of? Where is an air force base even close to Lunken? If you are speaking of WPAFB there is absolutely no connection. I trhink you are off in some neverland somewhere.

 

Don't make it personal. Ft. Walton Eglin, in Florida, for years had a tiny terminal but a good amount of commercial flights. They share runways with the

contiguous Air Force Base called Eglin. Adding a small amount of commercial flights is not difficult or bothersome to the Corporate activity at Lunken.

Someone caught the hair of the dog this morning.

Someone caught the hair of the dog this morning.

 

I'll admit I missed the fact he was talking about an airport in Florida. Just kind of flew right past me when the name of an unknown airport four states away is thrown out there when discussing Lunken.

 

I will just repeat my contention Lunken is a great asset to Cincinnati as a corporate jet and business travel airport. The air shuttle flights aimed at business travelers are a reasonable addition and could be expanded. Very little luggage or other personal amenities is involved there.

 

But I just don't see a need for opening up ordinary commercial flights out of Lunken just because someone is upset with the cost of their vacation flights to Disney World. There is Columbus, Dayton, and Indy to put pressure on Delta.

 

And the remarks the residents around Lunken knew that was a airport there when they bought their houses is unfair a it has been decades without discussion of Lunken traffic expansion and they should not have to put up with any significant increase in noise now.

Someone caught the hair of the dog this morning.

 

And the remarks the residents around Lunken knew that was a airport there when they bought their houses is unfair a it has been decades without discussion of Lunken traffic expansion and they should not have to put up with any significant increase in noise now.

 

Residents of the west side have felt the brunt of changes in air traffic patterns at CVG.  Heaven forbid east siders have to deal with any of the dirty work associated with the operations of a metropolitan economy.

And the remarks the residents around Lunken knew that was a airport there when they bought their houses is unfair a it has been decades without discussion of Lunken traffic expansion and they should not have to put up with any significant increase in noise now.

 

The noise contours for Lunken, generated under an FAA-approved procedure, are much smaller now than in past decades.  The specific noise contour that would trigger abatement is entirely on airport property.  That is, while there is no doubt some noise over Mt. Lookout, jets are quieter now than the 70s/80s and much quieter than turboprops that used to make up more of Lunken's fleet mix.

 

So yes, when the fleet mix at Lunken is quieter now than 20 years ago, and nearby residents still complain, I have to point to the fact that they knew an airport was there when they bought.

 

This is all abstract anyway; with any of these vacation operators, we're looking at no more than one arrival/departure a day, in daylight hours.

And the remarks the residents around Lunken knew that was a airport there when they bought their houses is unfair a it has been decades without discussion of Lunken traffic expansion and they should not have to put up with any significant increase in noise now.

 

10 years ago Lunken had 150,000 take offs a year.

 

It has steadily decreased to 70,000 last year.

 

Adding 6, 20, or 50 commercial takeoffs a week isn't going to kill anyone.

 

Waiting for Columbus, Indy and Dayton to get better IS what has currently been happening. How's it working?

 

 

And the remarks the residents around Lunken knew that was a airport there when they bought their houses is unfair a it has been decades without discussion of Lunken traffic expansion and they should not have to put up with any significant increase in noise now.

 

10 years ago Lunken had 150,000 take offs a year.

 

It has steadily decreased to 70,000 last year.

 

Adding 6, 20, or 50 commercial takeoffs a week isn't going to kill anyone.

 

Waiting for Columbus, Indy and Dayton to get better IS what has currently been happening. How's it working?

 

 

 

Could not agree more. I live in the decent glide path of Lunken and the noise is very little. If the city-lunken and Allegiant can get a deal done that would be great.

..........There is Columbus, Dayton, and Indy to put pressure on Delta.

You would think.....but if that hasn;t happened by now, well....

 

DAY, CMH and IND have been vying for flyers for years now, and with great success. DAY is 45 minutes from the northern part of Cincy and is small enough to navigate quickly so the home to plane time is equivalent to CVG.

 

..........There is Columbus, Dayton, and Indy to put pressure on Delta.

You would think.....but if that hasn;t happened by now, well....

 

DAY, CMH and IND have been vying for flyers for years now, and with great success. DAY is 45 minutes from the northern part of Cincy and is small enough to navigate quickly so the home to plane time is equivalent to CVG.

 

 

Even from my dad's house in the Blue Ash/Evendale area, it takes about the same amount of time to get to DAY as it does CVG.  Neither one of them is a in a very convenient location, though.  An airport either on the north side of Cincy, or the south side of Dayton would be ideal. But, alas, this has been discussed before...

Did Kroger ever approach Cincinnati for this? It would have been huge for Lunken and the city.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/news/2013/09/03/1200-job-project-eyes-atlanta-westside.html

At the end of the article it mentions that it would be a regional distribution facility, so what they are planning there likely can't be put in Cincinnati.

Allegiant Air wants to launch at Lunken Nov. 29, city says

 

Low-cost airline Allegiant Air wants to launch flights at Lunken Airport by the end of November, according to a document obtained by The Enquirer.

 

The Las Vegas-based vacation airline – which has targeted Cincinnati as part of big expansion plans in the Midwest and East Coast this year – hopes to launch service by Nov. 29, Lunken Airport Manager Fred Anderton told Federal Aviation Administration officials in a meeting Sept. 12.

 

The meeting was to initially discuss a federally mandated environmental assessment, necessary for commercial flights to launch at Cincinnati-owned Lunken Airport. Allegiant Air was not represented in the meeting, according to the meeting minutes.

 

Cont

Can 4 flights a week really hurt property values as much as everyone is thinking it will?  I think its insane to whine over property values when you knowingly bought a house near an airport or it's flight paths. 

Yeah I never got that. I'm a huge roller coaster enthusiast and can't stand when parks aren't allowed to build something because the neighbors think it'll be too tall or noisy or whatever. You moved next to an amusement park...what did you expect?

 

Or the street my parents live on. Typical mcmansions. The end of the street abutted a woods when the houses were built. My parents researched who owned that property since they were interested in a house on the cul de sac and found out it was owned by the massive apartment complex subdivision behind and would be apartment buildings eventually. So they bought a house somewhere else on the street. The people who did buy those houses tried to file a lawsuit against the apartment complex saying their property values were hurt. It didn't get very far since it was known from well before the street was built that that property was going to be apartments eventually.

 

Point being, people don't want to take any sort of responsibility for where they chose to live. They want things to just stay the way they were when they purchased their house and think they are entitled to nothing changing.

 

Also, yeah, four flights a day. Is that even going to be noticeable? Especially considering most of those will probably be during the hours when people are at work/school.

Can 4 flights a week really hurt property values as much as everyone is thinking it will?  I think its insane to whine over property values when you knowingly bought a house near an airport or it's flight paths. 

 

Some politicians will say that it is only 4 flights but that will lead to 40 flights. I do not believe this to be true because the City owns the Airport.

This guy is running for city council and posted this on his website,

"However. . . .if Lunken’s status is changed, then the City will have NO authority to restrict the amount of commercial traffic that comes in & out of the airport.  No authority.  Why?  Because the type of FAA status Lunken would need to bring in Allegiant Air would prohibit them from denying landing privileges to any carriers"

http://www.mikemoroski.com/2013/09/1634/

 

Don't know if that is true, but nonetheless it isn't like the infrastructure exists at Lunken where all of a sudden you have a bunch of carriers

fighting for slots.

Airport chief: Allegiant at Lunken 'not even close to a done deal'

Chris Wetterich - Staff reporter - Cincinnati Business Courier

 

While Allegiant Air has told him it would like to be up and running at Lunken Airport by late November, airport manager Fred Anderton said the earliest a necessary environmental impact study could be finished would be in May.

 

“We might be able to get it out by May or June, but that would be if all the stars lined up, which I never expect,” he said. “If that happens, I’ll be down at the casino playing roulette.”

 

The Cincinnati Enquirer reported today that Allegiant wants to start flying from Lunken on Nov. 29.

 

Anderton said he told Federal Aviation Administration officials that in a conference call about the environmental study but also noted the likely length of time a study would take.

 

Cont

Can 4 flights a week really hurt property values as much as everyone is thinking it will?  I think its insane to whine over property values when you knowingly bought a house near an airport or it's flight paths. 

 

That's silly. So a person shouldn't complain if a highway is to be built when they knowingly bought a house near a road?

Not the same thing at all. They aren't turning a rural farm runway with six landings a week into CVG.

 

It would be as if a warehouse that existed before you moved to your home wanted to increase the number of deliveries from 300 trucks to 304 each day.

In 2000 there were nearly 130,000 takeoff/landings a year at Lunken.  In 2012 there were roughly 70,000.  That is a DRAMATIC decrease.  hell, even adding 50 flights a week only brings us up to 2,600 more for the year. 

 

Unfortunately, the City is doing a horrible job reaching out to the residents to calm them down and Cranley has said he would basically shut lunken down- so this helps cranley.

Can 4 flights a week really hurt property values as much as everyone is thinking it will?  I think its insane to whine over property values when you knowingly bought a house near an airport or it's flight paths. 

 

Some politicians will say that it is only 4 flights but that will lead to 40 flights. I do not believe this to be true because the City owns the Airport.

This guy is running for city council and posted this on his website,

"However. . . .if Lunken’s status is changed, then the City will have NO authority to restrict the amount of commercial traffic that comes in & out of the airport.  No authority.  Why?  Because the type of FAA status Lunken would need to bring in Allegiant Air would prohibit them from denying landing privileges to any carriers"

http://www.mikemoroski.com/2013/09/1634/

 

Don't know if that is true, but nonetheless it isn't like the infrastructure exists at Lunken where all of a sudden you have a bunch of carriers

fighting for slots.

 

This is mostly true. But if they are looking to add that many flights at tiny Lunken they would end up at CVG.  Lunken isn't big and doesn't ahve much parking at all. 

In 2000 there were nearly 130,000 takeoff/landings a year at Lunken.  In 2012 there were roughly 70,000.  That is a DRAMATIC decrease.  hell, even adding 50 flights a week only brings us up to 2,600 more for the year. 

 

Unfortunately, the City is doing a horrible job reaching out to the residents to calm them down and Cranley has said he would basically shut lunken down- so this helps cranley.

 

Yeah seems like typical politico scare tactics.

People around Lunken, just keep fighting and since you live in the City email every politicean you can get a name of. You purchased property in the neighborhood with the understanding Lunken would remain just what it is, a nice accessible airport for business planes traffic out of Cincinnati. Jump up and down, and more importantly than that inquire as to whose political campaigns you can adversely affect if they continue on this commercial expansion idea for Lunken. Let's face it, political clout is the single most important aspect at this point in time in the US.

You know no "people around lunken" are reading this and you're just saying that to anger everyone on here who knows that 4 new flights a week when we're down from 130k to 70k isn't going to be noticeable.  it's the typical mason/cranley ideology that stops good ideas.

You know no "people around lunken" are reading this and you're just saying that to anger everyone on here who knows that 4 new flights a week when we're down from 130k to 70k isn't going to be noticeable.  it's the typical mason/cranley ideology that stops good ideas.

 

Who cares if the number of flights at Lunken have been reduced from 130K to 70K. If that relates to the fact private flight lessons have been reduced by 50% due to the economy, so what? You do know every short term small aircraft takeoff/landing for training purposes is recorded as just that - a flight. I have observed small craft there taking private lessons perform over 6 takeoff/landings an hour, each one is a recorded flight.

 

The important part is whether the fees paid by the business aircraft owners are paying for the upkeep, maintenance, and costs of the current employees to support the airport. If they are there is absolutely no reason to increase commercial traffic. If not, just raise the fees, I am relatively sure the business clients will pay them.

 

Lunken is an attractive facility to the corporate business interests of Cincinnati who fly private aircraft. Why are so many hell bent on disrupting this? We read many comments on how Cincinnati needs to upgrade being attractive to new talent locating here. And here is a topic just begging the corporations for a reason not to stay here.

Were people that live around Lunken Airport of Clermont County Airport upset when the Blue Ash airport closed? Because that closure could have increased traffic at Lunken or Clermont, in theory. But I would assume there was little to no outrage.