Posted May 1, 200718 yr So Cleveland makes yet another top negative list. As Archie Bunker would say: Woopdie damn doo.. This I pulled from AOL; I don't even know who the hell is the source. Bottom line is: I don't buy it. It's crap, based on pure stereotype and some yayhoo’s opinion. Most of those smokestacks they talk about have been torn down, like those of LTV Steel -- so really, these creeps are living in the past... I raise this topic mainly to thumb my nose at it... Let's see, looking at these lists in recent years: we're the poorest; fattest; dirtiest, dumbest and fastest shrinking. In actuality, only the last is closest to being true.. ... we need to stand up to these national 'list' fools and say collectively: enough already!
May 1, 200718 yr The PD picked up on the AP story, too (from the American Lung Association.) Here's the list of worst air-polluted metropolitan areas: 1. Los Angeles, CA 2. Pittsburgh 3. Bakersfield, CA 4. Birmingham, AL 5. Detroit 6. Cleveland 7. Visalia, CA 8. Cincinnati 9. Indianapolis 10. St. Louis http://www.cleveland.com/newsflash/national/index.ssf?/base/national-7/117799409423520.xml&storylist=national The data is a little outdated, since it's from 2003-2005, but it's not that old. Personally, I don't think our pollution levels are all that bad, except around the few remaining factories on the east side. I have to wonder, though, how New York City didn't make the list with all those cars. Even with all the people who take public transportation in NYC itself, the entire region is still something like 19 million people, and that's a lot of drivers...
May 1, 200718 yr The PD picked up on the AP story, too (from the American Lung Association.) Here's the list of worst air-polluted metropolitan areas: 1. Los Angeles, CA 2. Pittsburgh 3. Bakersfield, CA 4. Birmingham, AL 5. Detroit 6. Cleveland 7. Visalia, CA 8. Cincinnati 9. Indianapolis 10. St. Louis http://www.cleveland.com/newsflash/national/index.ssf?/base/national-7/117799409423520.xml&storylist=national The data is a little outdated, since it's from 2003-2005, but it's not that old. Personally, I don't think our pollution levels are all that bad, except around the few remaining factories on the east side. I have to wonder, though, how New York City didn't make the list with all those cars. Even with all the people who take public transportation in NYC itself, the entire region is still something like 19 million people, and that's a lot of drivers... Or how Atlanta, Jacksonville, Tampa, Milwaukee, Houston, Boston, Metro NY . Seems like another pick on the Mid West (rust belt region) and Southern Cali (smog belt) are not healthy places to live list. clvlndr - I agree, enough is enough already!
May 1, 200718 yr New York and Atlanta did make the list: 1: Los Angeles-Long Beach-Riverside, Calif. 2: Pittsburgh-New Castle, Pa. 3: Bakersfield, Calif. 4: Birmingham-Hoover-Cullman, Ala. 5: Detroit-Warren-Flint, Mich. 6: Cleveland-Akron-Elyria, Ohio 7: Visalia-Porterville, Calif. 8: Cincinnati-Middletown-Wilmington, Ohio, Ky., Ind. 9: Indianapolis-Anderson-Columbus, Ind. 10: St. Louis-St. Charles-Farmington, Mo., Ill. 11: Chicago-Naperville-Michigan City, Ill., Ind., Wis. (tie) 11: Lancaster, Pa. 13: Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Gainesville, Ga., Ala. 14: York-Hanover-Gettysburg, Pa. 15: Fresno-Madera, Calif. (tie) 15: Weirton-Steubenville, W.Va., Ohio 17: Hanford-Corcoran, Calif. (tie) 17: New York-Newark-Bridgeport, N.Y., N.J., Conn. 19: Canton-Massillon, Ohio 20: Washington-Baltimore-Northern Virginia, D.C., Md., Va. (tie) 20: Charleston, W.Va. 22: Louisville-Jefferson County-Elizabethtown-Scottsburg, Ky., Ind. 23: Huntington-Ashland, W.Va., Ky., Ohio 24: Philadelphia-Camden-Vineland, Pa., N.J., Del., Md. (tie) 24: Hagerstown-Martinsburg, Md., W.Va. 24: Rome, Ga.
May 1, 200718 yr Maybe we should change the heading, since we're not in the top 5 from 2003.... Actually, the crappy AOL sight I pulled this from (which had no attribution) had Cleveland as Top 5, along w/ Detroit, LA, Atlanta and Pittsburgh...
May 1, 200718 yr Maybe we should change the heading, since we're not in the top 5 from 2003.... Actually, the crappy AOL sight I pulled this from (which had no attribution) had Cleveland as Top 5, along w/ Detroit, LA, Atlanta and Pittsburgh... OK...I checked. This is a forbes magazine series. AOL is just a distributor of many companies information. When you got the article, google re-directed you to Forbes. So my friend...AOL is not at fault.
May 1, 200718 yr I found a slideshow on the Forbes website: http://www.forbes.com/2007/03/21/americas-dirtiest-cities-biz-logistics-cx_rm_0321amdirt_slide_2.html Cleveland is the 8th slide, after Atlanta, and this is what they had to say: Cleveland's pollution problem is very much a regional issue, as it is close to many industrial pollution sources. It also has a serious smog problem that is to some extent a highway (Route 90 for instance) as opposed to a smoke stack problem. I wasn't aware that we had a smog problem, but apparently our city looks like this: so I guess I shouldn't be that surprised.
May 1, 200718 yr According to Forbes... Pittsburgh has Ohio to blame for its air pollution! Damn you, Ohio!!!! ;) "The cities of Pittsburgh and New Castle count on the winds from Ohio and West Virginia to bear the majority of their fine particles."
May 1, 200718 yr Rome GA is 25, that is a very very tiny city In a mountain valley where bad air gets trapped.
May 1, 200718 yr According to Forbes... Pittsburgh has Ohio to blame for its air pollution! Damn you, Ohio!!!! ;) "The cities of Pittsburgh and New Castle count on the winds from Ohio and West Virginia to bear the majority of their fine particles." So it's saying that you're Ohio and West Virginia's trash dump. "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
May 1, 200718 yr According to Forbes... Pittsburgh has Ohio to blame for its air pollution! Damn you, Ohio!!!! ;) "The cities of Pittsburgh and New Castle count on the winds from Ohio and West Virginia to bear the majority of their fine particles." No, it's actually saying that winds from Ohio and West Virginia carry most fine particles away from Pittsburgh. We're cleaning up your mess- you're making it all by yourselves. ;)
May 1, 200718 yr so then whos getting all of pitts waste and pollution? It goes both ways. But who cares about this, imo, theres nothing like a good layer of smog to add to a neighborhoods charm and sex appeal :-)
May 1, 200718 yr According to Forbes... Pittsburgh has Ohio to blame for its air pollution! Damn you, Ohio!!!! ;) "The cities of Pittsburgh and New Castle count on the winds from Ohio and West Virginia to bear the majority of their fine particles." No, it's actually saying that winds from Ohio and West Virginia carry most fine particles away from Pittsburgh. We're cleaning up your mess- you're making it all by yourselves. ;) http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_328731.html "For both airborne particles and ozone, the region's main problem is upwind sources of pollution. About 84 percent of the airborne particles measured in Allegheny County between 2001 and '03 arrived from upwind sources, mainly coal-fired power plants, Westman said. Those same power plants contribute the nitrogen oxides that combine with volatile organic compounds to form ground-level ozone or smog. For the same three-year period, the ozone readings of air coming into the county already exceeded federal standards, Westman said." ... "upwind" means "Ohio"
May 1, 200718 yr Indeed. "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
May 1, 200718 yr According to Forbes... Pittsburgh has Ohio to blame for its air pollution! Damn you, Ohio!!!! ;) "The cities of Pittsburgh and New Castle count on the winds from Ohio and West Virginia to bear the majority of their fine particles." No, it's actually saying that winds from Ohio and West Virginia carry most fine particles away from Pittsburgh. We're cleaning up your mess- you're making it all by yourselves. ;) http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_328731.html "For both airborne particles and ozone, the region's main problem is upwind sources of pollution. About 84 percent of the airborne particles measured in Allegheny County between 2001 and '03 arrived from upwind sources, mainly coal-fired power plants, Westman said. Those same power plants contribute the nitrogen oxides that combine with volatile organic compounds to form ground-level ozone or smog. For the same three-year period, the ozone readings of air coming into the county already exceeded federal standards, Westman said." ... "upwind" means "Ohio" Which really mean "Appalachia" in general, as the Ohio River is a huge resource of pollution itself (West Virginia, Ohio, AND Pennsylvania). But I suppose we can all make excuses for higher levels of pollution. Perhaps Cleveland can blame Detroit? Chicago blame Milwaukee? Los Angeles blame China? Or perhaps the greatest of all! Houston blaming SAN ANTONIO!!! "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
May 1, 200718 yr "Upwind" also means "Pennsylvania:" http://webpub.alleg.edu/employee/c/cwaggett/fcehi/mercury-03evaluation.htm Map: http://webpub.alleg.edu/employee/c/cwaggett/fcehi/assets/PowerPlantLocations.jpg Wow! Just look at all of those plants in the counties surrounding Allegheny!
May 1, 200718 yr Hell, look at Wooster! They even have a plant! "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
May 1, 200718 yr onced again this is utter bs. what do i keep telling you guys about forbes magazine? i met them...they totally throw darts and make that shite up on these top 10 lists. even if we are to try to take them (or the ala?) seriously they obviously are going on outdated info. no freakin way clev air is worse than nyc anymore. no way. i have the infamous schmutz on the window sills and thick dust everywhere in the apt every day -- even if you try to clean it daily. usually you can see the grit in the air its so thick. between the cars and the utterly constant construction dust, ugh. and thats not even the worst air pollutant...its home heating oil use. it was just in the local news: MORE BAD AIR DAYS FOR CITY 'HEAT' OIL WORSENS POLLUTION By CHUCK BENNETT Click to enlarge April 30, 2007 -- Take a deep breath - or maybe don't. New York's air is getting dirtier. A report scheduled for release by the American Lung Association tomorrow will show New York City's air is even more polluted than it was last year. "Air quality in New York City is not getting better. It is, in fact, getting worse," said Louise Vetter, chief executive officer of the American Lung Association of New York City. Of particular concern Vetter said is particle pollution. "It is a very fine soot that gets caught in the lungs causing cardiovascular disease, heart attacks and lung cancer. It's very, very, very serious," she said. Last year, New York City was ranked the 15th-worst region in the country for daily particle pollution. Pollution levels are even worse this year, according to the report. The Bloomberg administration wants to reverse this trend. Its "PlaNYC" for 2030 seeks to cut air-pollution emissions by 40 percent. While praising the overall thrust of the mayor's ambitious plan, Vetter said it doesn't adequately address the most common pollutant: home heating oil. Twenty-nine percent of all New York City emissions come from heating fuel - more than the amount from vehicle traffic and power plants combined. More than 1 million households in the five boroughs use oil heat, a fuel that is dirtier than truck diesel. Indeed, diesel trucks were federally mandated this year to switch an ultralow-sulfur fuel that emits just 15 sulfur parts per million. By contrast, homes in New York use heating oil that emits anywhere from 2,000 to 10,000 ppm of sulfur, a far more toxic mix. "PlaNYC" calls for gradually switching home heating oil supplies over to 500 ppm, not the 15 ppm variety. And of the 487 schools that use the heaviest and dirtiest fuel available, only 100 will converted to cleaner fuel by 2017. "It's a good step in the right direction, but at just 10 new boilers a year, a lot more should be done. We are going to advocate for the best, and 500 ppm is not the best," Vetter said. The mayor's office did not rule out an eventual switch to a cleaner fuel. "In the future, we could look at further reducing the sulfur content to 15 ppm, particularly as the price for this fuel drops," said Bloomberg spokesman John Gallagher.
May 1, 200718 yr onced again this is utter bs. what do i keep telling you guys about forbes magazine? i met them...they totally throw darts and make that shite up on these top 10 lists. even if we are to try to take them (or the ala?) seriously they obviously are going on outdated info. AMEN!! If its not verified by Time Mag, CNN, Fortune or Fortune Small Business or Money Mag. Its to be taken with a grain of salt. Forbes, USAToday and Newsweek are only worthy of being bird cage liner!
May 2, 200718 yr i wasnt aware we had a smog problem. Unfortunately, we do. Greater Cleveland is an EPA air quality non-attainment area. Most of the pollution comes from mobile sources -- cars and trucks. But most Ohio metro areas are in non-attainment. Ironically, Honda wouldn't consider putting a new plant in an Ohio metro area because new factories cannot increase emissions to those already emitted by mobile sources and, to a lesser extent, factories and power plants. So Honda chose Greensburg, Indiana rather than have to install air pollution control devices. I suppose it also didn't want to risk having the EPA slap fines on it or require more emission control equipment in case it didn't comply with a surprise mandate. It's the same story for other prospective industries looking for new plant locations. They're staying away from metro areas in non-attainment. And EPA regs will get tougher starting in 2009. Unless we can clean up our mobile-sourced air pollution, you won't see any new emission-belching factories opening up in Greater Cleveland for a long time. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 2, 200718 yr Forbes, Smorbes; how about the American Lung Association ratings? http://lungaction.org/reports/sota07_cities.html
May 2, 200718 yr I'm surprised that so many of you are "suprised" by this rating. From reading these posts most, if not all, of you live in Cleveland - as do I. There are many mornings when the smell from the industrial valley is overwhelming. Downtown often reaks as do many of the neighborhoods surronding the valley. When I lived in tremont, i sometimes closed my windows and turned A/C on b/c the smell was so bad. Even now when i live in Old Brooklyn, the smell is BAD - especially sunday mornings for some reason. No surprises we made this list.
May 2, 200718 yr Go to Port Huron, Michigan on a muggy day, take a deep breath and look to Canada just over the river. Now, THAT, is pollution. It makes you wretch. Seriously.
May 2, 200718 yr Rome GA is 25, that is a very very tiny city In a mountain valley where bad air gets trapped. the metropolitan statistical area population is 95,000
May 3, 200718 yr I'm surprised that so many of you are "suprised" by this rating. From reading these posts most, if not all, of you live in Cleveland - as do I. There are many mornings when the smell from the industrial valley is overwhelming. Downtown often reaks as do many of the neighborhoods surronding the valley. When I lived in tremont, i sometimes closed my windows and turned A/C on b/c the smell was so bad. Even now when i live in Old Brooklyn, the smell is BAD - especially sunday mornings for some reason. No surprises we made this list. I've written a couple of articles on allegations about Mittal Steel's emissions. Some of the residents near the industrial valley complain of chronic asthma and other medical problems. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 3, 200718 yr the sad thing is that we could be doing so many smaller things to make a difference. for instance, i believe that all of the construction equipment is using 500ppm sulfur fuel on euclid ave. now, this is legal, but in an urban area where we have our buses running on ULSD it kind of defeats the purpose. plus the age of some of this equipment is quite old. maybe on a subdivision plot in medina county, but in the middle of the city? if everyone made some small steps to think differently about how we operate (fuel choices, idling, age of equipment) it would have a major impact, perhaps much larger than getting the "obvious" Mittal's of the world to clean up their act. we seem to have it backward, as this could be an area where Cleveland and the region innovates to find solutions. I rarely hear of this though, and I witness it even less (despite some initial attempts by the city to use B5 blends in some vehicles, anti-idling, a few token hybrids, etc).
May 3, 200718 yr Don't blame only the industries and power plants. Fact is, most of a region's polluters are typically on the highways. We all may have these really neat catalytic converters in our cars, but they don't start working until the engines warm up. That's when cars do most of their polluting. So all these people who drive to transit park-n-rides or stick to roads with computer-synchonized traffic signals thinking they're cutting pollution and doing the right thing aren't doing much at all. Toledo is in non-attainment. In fact, 33 Ohio counties were designated nontattainment for EPA’s health-based standards for 8-hour ozone pollution. There are different levels for non-attainment -- marginal, moderate, serious and severe. The following 25 Ohio counties are in marginal non-attainment: 1. Stark County Canton-Massillon, OH Area 2. Butler County Cincinnati-Hamilton, OH-KY-IN Area 3. Clermont County Cincinnati-Hamilton, OH-KY-IN Area 4. Clinton County Cincinnati-Hamilton, OH-KY-IN Area 5. Hamilton County Cincinnati-Hamilton, OH-KY-IN Area 6. Warren County Cincinnati-Hamilton, OH-KY-IN Area 7. Delaware County Columbus, OH Area 8. Fairfield County Columbus, OH Area 9. Franklin County Columbus, OH Area 10. Knox County Columbus, OH Area 11. Licking County Columbus, OH Area 12. Madison County Columbus, OH Area 13. Clark County Dayton-Springfield, OH Area 14. Greene County Dayton-Springfield, OH Area 15. Miami County Dayton-Springfield, OH Area 16. Montgomery County Dayton-Springfield, OH Area 17. Allen County Lima, OH Area 18. Washington County Parkersburg-Marietta, WV-OH Area 19. Jefferson County Steubenville-Weirton, OH-WV Area 20. Lucas County Youngstown-Warren-Sharon, PA-OH Area 21. Wood County Toledo, OH Area 22. Belmont County Wheeling, WV-OH Area 23. Columbiana County Youngstown-Warren-Sharon, PA-OH Area 24. Mahoning County Youngstown-Warren-Sharon, PA-OH Area 25. Trumbull County Youngstown-Warren-Sharon, PA-OH Area These eight counties are in moderate non-attainment: 1. Ashtabula County Cleveland-Akron-Lorain, OH Area 2. Cuyahoga County Cleveland-Akron-Lorain, OH Area 3. Geauga County Cleveland-Akron-Lorain, OH Area 4. Lake County Cleveland-Akron-Lorain, OH Area 5. Lorain County Cleveland-Akron-Lorain, OH Area 6. Medina County Cleveland-Akron-Lorain, OH Area 7. Portage County Cleveland-Akron-Lorain, OH Area 8. Summit County Cleveland-Akron-Lorain, OH Area "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 3, 200718 yr ^That's a lot of counties! I guess I'm one of the lucky ones who grew up in a clean air county!
May 3, 200718 yr Greater Cleveland polutes the most, but over half the state's mass transit riders live in the area. Interesting.
May 4, 200718 yr I just noticed the following in the list I copied over from the EPA... 20. Lucas County Youngstown-Warren-Sharon, PA-OH Area Ooops! "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 6, 200718 yr Yes. I suspect they just tagged it with the wrong MSA. Let's put it this way: If Allen and Stark counties are in marginal non-attainment, I don't know how Lucas would not be. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 6, 200718 yr NOACA published a few reports this week regarding helping NE Ohio air quality this summer. Some of the info is interesting and actionable, some of it seems geared toward an enthusiastic 1st grader who likes playing outside. National Air Quality Awareness Week: What are Air Quality Forecasts? National Air Quality Awareness Week: Ozone and Particle Pollution National Air Quality Awareness Week: Keeping Your Lungs and Heart Safe National Air Quality Awareness Week: What Causes Poor Air Quality? National Air Quality Awareness Week: Ozone and Particle Pollution Links to the information can be found here: http://www.noaca.org/newsreleases.html It also never ceases to amaze me that no one seems to publicize the reductions in air polution that have taken place. there are some innovations and hard work going on. i wish people/agencies would publicize this data . Can anyone answer these questions? 1. Since the RTA began replacing buses with the new clean air deisel engines and ultra low sulfur fuel, the entire fleet has collectively reduced... 2. Since the City of Cleveland implemented its anti-idling policy.... 3. Since the Cleveland Public Schools retrofitted their diesel school buses with particle traps.... 4. Since the Port of Cleveland began participating in a pilot program to retofit diesel port equipment, ... I think people would like to know about the positives that are happening, while being reminded that more needs to be done. otherwise, it just seems like never ending negative focused articles are press releases.
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