Curosity led me over to Steelyard Commons for the first time a couple of weeks ago.  I wasn't sure what to expect, though I must say I was pleasently surprised.  Though it still resembles your typical suburban shopping center, I love the added touches with the steel bridge over the road and the other pieces of art using steel throughout the complex.  I've never really been down  by the steelmills before, so that was also neat; I didn't realize that SC was so close to some of the actual mills.

The really cool part will be when the Steel Museum opens. I can't wait for that.

don't we already have a museum of industry out in ytown?

I don't know. I do know that this one is focusing only on steel. The Western Reserve Historical Society is working on it. It's not opening soon I don't think, but they are doing a workshop on steel this summer: http://www.wrhs.org/docs/steel07.pdf

target is open now for a "soft opening."  stopped in friday afternoon and was impressed. 

 

so you don't have to wait until sunday to check it out.

^Apparently, word leaked out. I was on the free way and noticed the parking lot full of cars today.

 

Crains:

 

Target ready to open Steelyard doors

 

By STAN BULLLARD

 

3:35 pm, March 9, 2007

 

The city of Cleveland is about to catch up to the rest of the world of contemporary retailing.

 

The city will get its first Target store when the retailer opens at 8 a.m. this Sunday, March 11, at Steelyard Commons. The open-air shopping center is near Tremont and downtown Cleveland.

 

The 127,280-square-foot upscale discount store is the second retailer to open at Steelyard Commons. Home Depot opened Feb. 1. The Steelyard location is the home improvement retailer’s second outlet in the city proper.

 

Read More...

"The city of Cleveland is about to catch up to the rest of the world of contemporary retailing."

 

Gotta love the PD.  Start off any and all stories with a knock on Cleveland.

 

^Except it was in Crain's.

 

Which is probably worse.

I thought Bullard wrote for the PD, sorry!

Tax break may not apply to Steelyard

Thursday, March 08, 2007

By Ken Prendergast

West Side Sun News

 

According to several state officials, properties and structures at Steelyard Commons may not be eligible for state-authorized property tax breaks, after all. But the retail complex's developer Mitchell Schneider said the question ultimately is irrelevant if all property owners opt out of the tax exemptions.

 

City officials said they are taking another look at state laws to see if the retailers are eligible for the tax breaks.

 

Schneider's First Interstate Properties and Wal-Mart announced in February they are opting out of a state-authorized 10-year tax break that they would otherwise receive automatically. Two other big-box retailers Target and Home Depot apparently haven't decided whether to opt out of the tax exemption.

 

The exemptions would mean a significant loss of property tax revenues to the Cleveland schools and hurt city improvements to neighborhood commercial districts.

 

Steelyard Commons, built on the site of a polluted steel mill, was cleaned up using funds from the Ohio Environmental Protection Agency's Voluntary Action Program. Dubbed the "Brownfield" program, the complicated program contains incentives to redevelop polluted, including a covenant not to sue if more pollutants are discovered in the future and two provisions for property tax breaks.

 

"The property owner is entitled to a (property tax) exemption for the increase in the value of the land and the structures on the land," said Marty Cooper, staff attorney at the Ohio EPA VAP legal office. "The exemption only applies to the land and the existing buildings on the property, not to new buildings on the property. There are exceptions that apply to new buildings."

 

That's where the other, more lucrative tax exemption would apply. It applies to the increased value over 10 years resulting from property improvements made as of Jan. 1, 2006, said Shelley Wilson, executive administrator for property taxes at the Ohio Department of Taxation.

 

"It includes property on the site as of Jan. 1, 2006 that's the reference point," Wilson said. "Over the course of the next 10 tax years, whatever (property value) appreciation exists, that's what gets abated."

 

"A property owner is not supposed to get an exemption on anything he adds," said Gary Gudmundson, communications director at the department of taxation. "It's based on what he adds to what is already there. If there weren't any buildings there on Jan. 1, 2006, it sounds to me like they aren't eligible."

 

Schneider said his attorney informed him that the tax break is awarded on the property improvements and structures added once a covenant not to sue is issued by the state, and the state tax commissioner makes a ruling on what property can be exempted from the tax. But it was his understanding that the improvements made after Jan. 1, 2006 were eligible.

 

"I think the developer (Schneider)would have been eligible for the exemption because he bought the land, remediated the environmental concerns and put in streets (by Jan. 1, 2006)," said Ward 16 Councilman Kevin Kelley and a practicing attorney. "He rightfully chose not to take that (exemption)."

 

"The bottom line here is to have everyone waive the exemption," Schneider said. "Whether the improvements are made before or after Jan. 1 (2006) is irrelevant. We feel confident we're gong to bring this to a conclusion with waivers from all those involved."

 

Wow...I really can't believe that more attention to this!  Wal-Mart and Schneider received all of this praise for turning down  a ten-year tax abatement for which they weren't even eligible! 

 

By the way, KJP, I enjoyed your editorial in this week's Sun News.  Great piece.  I thought it was funny that it was on the same page as the guy writing about how mall parking lots need to be bigger to handle snow.  (Man, I hate that guy's columns).

Thanks. The other media are probably still trying to figure exactly what the law says with respect to Steelyard Commons (as am I -- it's damned confusing!!).

 

As for the column I wrote on the Inner Belt, it's posted at: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=2438.msg168462#msg168462

I was at target sunday, it seem that Cleveland was missing meeting area by over hearing people talk. i heard them said (hi i haven't see you in a long) and best one i heard was from a older lady (thank god i didn't have to drive to Parma any more.)

now, we have a place that all clevelander's can go to and not split us up to Parma and North Ho-stead.

 

It will build a stronger community 

I was at target sunday, it seem that Cleveland was missing meeting area by over hearing people talk. i heard them said (hi i haven't see you in a long) and best one i heard was from a older lady (thank god i didn't have to drive to Parma any more.)

now, we have a place that all clevelander's can go to and not split us up to Parma and North Ho-stead.

 

It will build a stronger community  

 

I didn't understand the first two sentences, can you edit them or explain once again.  :?

^In other words, there's a dearth of civic amenities and street life, something not easily rectified in the private domain.

OMG! Stop the presses!!! Dan said something negative about Cleveland in the Steelyard Commons thread!!!

 

:roll:

 

I'm glad to hear that the place is off to an early success

Was I incorrect?

 

Privately-held property is no substitute for the public domain. 

Dear Dan,

 

Cleveland's library system is consistently voted one of the best in the country.  We also have an incredible metro-park system and Cleveland-Akron is one of only a few cities to possess a National Park in close proximity to the metro area. We are slowly reclaiming our lakefront and river frontages as public spaces, with Whiskey Island being another recent victory.

 

I therefore take offense to your use of the word, 'dearth'

^Again with the lists.  Which brochure is that from?

 

You miss the point entirely.  Street life in Cleveland is diminished from what it used to be, as people spend more time in cars, and public facilities like sidewalks and streets are replaced by privately held POSs like Steelyard Commons.  When was the last time you ran into a friend or co-worker while walking down the sidewalk, on the bus, in the park, walking your dog, or in a coffeeshop?  It's sad that we have substituted schlepping to Target via private automobile for the chance encounter on the street.

 

If my handle were "ILoveCleveland", you know damn well you wouldn't be giving me this difficult a time. 

^Again with the lists.  Which brochure is that from?

 

You miss the point entirely.  Street life in Cleveland is diminished from what it used to be, as people spend more time in cars, and public facilities like sidewalks and streets are replaced by privately held POSs like Steelyard Commons.  When was the last time you ran into a friend or co-worker while walking down the sidewalk, on the bus, in the park, walking your dog, or in a coffeeshop?  It's sad that we have substituted schlepping to Target via private automobile for the chance encounter on the street.

 

If my handle were "ILoveCleveland", you know damn well you wouldn't be giving me this difficult a time. 

 

Good lord, Dan. You've really gone off the deep end. I run into people all the time in Ohio City. Why are you insinuating that it never happens in Cleveland?

Good God............not again! :roll: :roll: :roll:

^Again with the lists.  Which brochure is that from?

 

You miss the point entirely.  Street life in Cleveland is diminished from what it used to be, as people spend more time in cars, and public facilities like sidewalks and streets are replaced by privately held POSs like Steelyard Commons.  When was the last time you ran into a friend or co-worker while walking down the sidewalk, on the bus, in the park, walking your dog, or in a coffeeshop?  It's sad that we have substituted schlepping to Target via private automobile for the chance encounter on the street.

 

If my handle were "ILoveCleveland", you know damn well you wouldn't be giving me this difficult a time. 

 

Um...I live on Shaker Square.  I'm always running into people, walking, biking, shopping, sitting out eating, walking to & from the various train stations, Larchmere or Buckeye..  umm  I need to get to lucy's...anyway...there are areas that are coming back.  S²is one of the most walkable neighborhoods in the country...including any in DC.

 

One project does not make or break the city.  Nor has the city put all of its eggs in one basket.

I come to this thread expecting to read about how cheap toilet paper is at Target and I get this?  Bah!  A waste of my time!

 

Anyone checked out the Towpath segment yet?  I hear it's cage-like.

"When was the last time you ran into a friend or co-worker while walking down the sidewalk, on the bus, in the park, walking your dog, or in a coffeeshop?"

 

Today at lunch downtown, yesterday at Grumpys for brunch, the day before that at the South Side for lunch, the day before that... It's just now warm enough to walk the dogs (pugs, which don't do well in temperature extremes). Never mind the list of regional assets - the immediate area north of Steelyard Commons is home to Lincoln Park (a great park with dog-walking amenities, gazebo, pool and water playground for the kids, and open greenspace for frisbee/catch/whatever), in addition to Civilizations (coffee shop), Prosperity Social Club (bar/restaurant), the South Side (bar/restaurant), Grumpys (late-night restaurant), Lava Lounge (bar/restaurant), need I go on? 

 

"If my handle were "ILoveCleveland", you know damn well you wouldn't be giving me this difficult a time."

 

No Dan, you've earned all the crap that people give you. You make generalizing and inaccurate statements about Cleveland, and what's worse is that you say them to people who already know what is and isn't good planning. Some of us even do things and work in places where we can make the changes needed to steer city planning in the right direction. But when was the last time you acknowledged that? Oh, that's right - you don't focus on what's already working, you're content to only point out the negative. In other words, you're happy to b!tch about what's wrong but unable or unwilling to actually do something about what you're b!tching about. If you have a significant other, they're deserving of sainthood.

 

Plenty of other people manage to present contrarian viewpoints but they seem to command respect from other forumers. Oh that's right - it's not you. It couldn't possibly be you.  :roll:

 

No Dan, you've earned all the crap that people give you. You make generalizing and inaccurate statements about Cleveland, and what's worse is that you say them to people who already know what is and isn't good planning. Some of us even do things and work in places where we can make the changes needed to steer city planning in the right direction. But when was the last time you acknowledged that? Oh, that's right - you don't focus on what's already working, you're content to only point out the negative.

 

If I said something incorrect, please correct me instead of whining about it.  You might notice that there were a lot of responses that inferred QUITE a bit of information from my post.  I offered my interpretation of a post by Robclevoh, and I get a slew of personal attacks based on what folks WANTED to read. 

 

My question is, are you incapable of recognizing complex, interwined relationships within an urban organism, or do you choose to think in overly simplistic terms?  You can't isolate Steelyard Commons from the rest of the city.  There is going to be an impact on the community at whole, for better or for worse.

 

Maybe the snotty attitudes toward "outsiders" or those who dare to think differently beyond your provincial utopia is a big part of why Ohio bleeds college graduates and talent like a hemophiliac.  Possibility?

 

In other words, you're happy to b!tch about what's wrong but unable or unwilling to actually do something about what you're b!tching about. If you have a significant other, they're deserving of sainthood.

 

Plenty of other people manage to present contrarian viewpoints but they seem to command respect from other forumers. Oh that's right - it's not you. It couldn't possibly be you.

 

As you'll note, I never said anything personal.  YOU folks have took it upon yourselves to make it personal instead of addressing the question at hand.  I give you credit for actually answering my question, and I have noted your response.  Negative points for the pompous personal attack, my friend. 

 

And if this gets me banned from your mutually-assuring circle jerk of forum, so be it.  It's your city, so screw it up all you want. 

^Again with the lists.  Which brochure is that from?

 

You miss the point entirely.  Street life in Cleveland is diminished from what it used to be,

 

Dan,  actually you missed your own point.  You said " there's a dearth of civic amenities and street life"  I merely pointed out civic amenities in Cleveland to prove that there is no 'dearth' as you stated. 

"If I said something incorrect, please correct me instead of whining about it."

 

You've routinely said things that are incorrect. We've routinely corrected you. You've routinely ignored it.

 

"Maybe the snotty attitudes toward "outsiders" or those who dare to think differently beyond your provincial utopia"

 

No, the attitudes are only directed at you.

 

"As you'll note, I never said anything personal."

 

Maybe in one post on this page, but in plenty of others.

 

"I give you credit for actually answering my question, and I have noted your response. Negative points for the pompous personal attack, my friend."

 

That's a first. Oh, and pot - meet kettle.

 

"And if this gets me banned from your mutually-assuring circle jerk of forum, so be it.  It's your city, so screw it up all you want."

 

Banned? No. Suspended for a few months? Why not - you need to cool your jets.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And if this gets me banned from your mutually-assuring circle jerk of forum, so be it.  It's your city, so screw it up all you want. 

 

That was a pretty shitty thing to say.  We're here because we care and want to make Cleveland, rather Ohio better.

Folks, please feel free to discuss the merits and flaws of Steelyard Commons and move on from Dan's caustic attitude.

^In that spirit

 

For people who have gone there, and I realize that this is purely opinion, but does the design of the stores/lightposts/signs work with the steelmills across the way, or is it just cheesy flim-flam?

^In that spirit

 

For people who have gone there, and I realize that this is purely opinion, but does the design of the stores/lightposts/signs work with the steelmills across the way, or is it just cheesy flim-flam?

 

I think its a little bit of both.

Honestly, I'd say it's 80% flim-flam. The light towers definitely attract your attention at night, and scalewise are as monumental as the mills, but the rest of the "industrial" motif is simply too small in scale to fit the context. Maybe at build-out it will be a little more cohesive but I have my doubts.

 

For example, the salvaged "shed" for the interpretive/historic/center is a brick building that's about the size of an average two-car garage, surrounded by a small patch of asphalt tucked behind Home Depot. The salvaged bridge across the northern end of Steelyard Drive is interesting but people are too busy navigating the parking lots to really notice. As everyone has pretty much said - it's nice to have the stores available, but it's a garden-variety power center that's made a "meh" attempt at evoking an industrial motif.

I guess you forgot your camera when you made these observations :cry: :wink:

I was with my S.O. and some friends. He's very understanding but the friends don't quite understand why I would take photos of a Target.

^huh?

I belive for the average so called citizen of cleveland -

danin Dc was correct. :-o

they schlep over to target and meet and great.

 

For people on this site,that does not ahppen. You people are citizens and movers of this city. :whip: :whip:

 

   Now target is in the world of everyone has that shirt mentality.I dont follow  :drunk:

 

   There is a new store opening up in the galleria,thats a place I will be probaly at. :clap: :clap: :clap: :-D

 

 

 

???

best post ever

Perhaps a good time for a little SYC promo. Love it, hate it, its your choice. At the very least appreciate the gorgeous photography and video shots of Cleveland. I would hope that this is one thing we all can agree on.

 

http://www.steelyardcommons.com/video.asp?id=dvd

^ btw I'm not talking about the quality of the video...

I have a lot of mixed feeling about SYC (well, not about walmart..don't get me started).  However the fact is, since I moved into the city, we started spending a a LOT less on on consumer items b/c we were really committed to spending every possible $ in the city, and if we wanted certain things we ended up having to go to the burbs as a last resort which I abhor on many levels (supporting their economy, the wasted energy to get there). I am pretty sure we made up for this by purchasing consumables (food and drink) as well as services (scooter shop to dry cleaning and so on) in the city neighborhoods.

 

The botton line is with SYC myself and others really can further support commitment to the city.  I am still going to get what I can at independents such as Sutton's Hardware b/c it is locally owned and has good service, but there are just certain things they don't have that I will now not have to go so far for (IE the home depot on w117). Same goes for Target (rocky river). I think I have been 2x in the last two years. I am sure that will change. Not to mention the Staples and Petco. Even though we were only going to the burbs on a max of a quarterly basis to pick things up, I see that dropping real close to zippo now (come on Trader Joes...move into the city-can you imagine how well one would do there?)

 

Now clothing. I am not a clothes horse or a person that has high end needs, but the situation in all of Cleveland is bleak for people who like interesting clothing (at affordable prices). I cannot afford to keep going to NYC 2x a year, so any improvement and that scene would be welcome.

 

I went to the Home Depot Sunday. the store looked good and the service was uncharacteristically great. They were getting plenty of business too. The streets around there were very screwy IMO, but loved the haunting industrial scape

Most likely a just a rumor. However Target has opened in several struggling malls here in S. FL. A downtown mall? That’s a horse of a different color.

that was a decent promo video. nice shots and at least they were really promoting the towpath trail toward the end.

From the above link:

 

Formats

Target operates three store formats: 

General Merchandise stores (P04) are typically one-level, free-standing stores within major community or regional shopping districts.  This is our most prevalent store format which is approximately 126,000 square feet in size.  Our merchandise offering includes general merchandise and selected grocery products and may also include other amenities such as photo processing services, a pharmacy, a Food Avenue® restaurant and often a Starbucks®.

General Merchandise stores (P+) are a somewhat expanded version of our general merchandise store for use in higher traffic trade areas, representing approximately 145,000 square feet in size.

SuperTarget stores extend the Target brand beyond fashion and home décor by providing guests with a pleasant and convenient grocery shopping experience in addition to the traditional Target store experience.  SuperTarget offers a full grocery line, including a bakery and deli, meat and produce selections.  With an average size of 174,000 square feet per store, SuperTarget’s mix of grocery and merchandise delights our guests by offering the convenience of one-stop shopping.

 

 

So, which is SYC's Target?

Mayday you really should start a thread with just your "back on topic please" photoshops.:)

I stopped there on my way home yesterday for the first time to pick a few things from Target. My first impression of it was "Eh" at the best. The view going down the hill into SYC of the mills is great but once you are down there it is just another shopping center because you can't see anything over the buildings. Overall it is good for the city if it just gets rid of the "you have to drive to the exurbs to get anything mentality" excuse against living in the city or inner rings. Now if we can get rid of the desire for white vinyl fence in backyards...

^there should be and observation like tower be built down there.

 

I'm not talking hundreds of feet, just something like 50 ft or so. Gotta be some great views.

 

Either that or me and my ladder will be climbing onto the roof of home depot.

^Actually Pope, there is a really good view from the roof of the Best Buy on Ridge Rd if you are interested. 

me and my ladder are going to be very busy.

 

One more slightly off-topic, but still interesting.

 

Mall of America asks state, local help for $1.8B expansion

Officials promise return in new taxes as well as construction and permanent jobs

BY BILL SALISBURY

Pioneer Press

Article Last Updated: 03/23/2007 02:45:29 PM CDT

 

Here's the deal the Mall of America is pitching to Minnesota legislators: Invest $222 million in public money now to expand the giant shopping complex, and in return the enlarged megamall will generate $80 million a year in new state and local tax revenue.

 

Mall representatives made that offer to the Senate tax and business committees Wednesday in their first public pitch to lawmakers, and many senators found it appealing. But the lawmakers said they have to figure out how they can afford it before signing off on the deal.

 

"Next week, we'll talk about how we'll pay for it," said Senate Tax Committee Chairman Tom Bakk, DFL-Cook.

 

Read More...

Subsidizing the car at one (admittedly large) retail complex to the tune of $181 million? I don't ever want to hear Magyar bitch about subsidies to transit again!!