I think when we were talking about residential or mixed-use potential in the site, it was more opinion. I still feel that the site is unattractive for any residential component with ISG in plain view.

 

Not just that, but to the south you have the Jennings Freeway (and ramps), to the west you have I-71 (and ramps) and MetroHealth, to the east ISG, and to the north a huge embankment topped by a street of homes in various state of disrepair. When you have so many other less-contaminated and more aesthetically appealing sites to choose from - who would want to live IN there?

I've heard from a very reliable source that Mitchell Schneider doesn't want to do any more development, especially in Cleveland because of the experiences he's had on Steelyard.  Instead, he wants to focus on investing in projects, feeling like he'll get the same returns without having to do nearly as much work.

 

Big box retail, urban, and lifestyle center don't seem to mesh that well in Steelyard's case.  You have to ask yourself, as a diehard Cleveland supporter who would live in the city by choice, if you'd live in a suburban setting near big box national retailers.  In a way, it's contradictory.

 

What would be cool is if some of the junk land uses, i.e. bulk storage yards, along the Towpath out of the shadow of Mittal were ameliorated and redeveloped into something mixed-use.   

Living in the shadows of a steel mill what be pretty sweet, even though it would probably knock 15 years off your life span.

You have to ask yourself, as a diehard Cleveland supporter who would live in the city by choice, if you'd live in a suburban setting near big box national retailers.  In a way, it's contradictory.

 

I certainly wouldn't. And I don't think the people currently living at Crocker Park would, either. But I don't think that means there isn't a niche that would. How large that niche is, how easily developers could reach them and whether together these factors would result in enough pre-sells to make such a project viable. I would also note that, outside of the large anchor tenants, other spots in the commons could draw more upscale tenants, depending on the demographics of the people being drawn in and their buying history over a period of years. Moreover, the proximity to the steel mills is not all that greater than those living on the hill up in Tremont. And since I would guess that most of the pollutant particles rise considerably before settling, I would anticipate that the hills are subject to similar contamination to this site.

I suspect living next to an urban Interstate highway would be similarly unhealthful and noisy, but people do it.

\  You have to ask yourself, as a diehard Cleveland supporter who would live in the city by choice, if you'd live in a suburban setting near big box national retailers.  In a way, it's contradictory.

   

 

Any thoughts on the quasi suburban new urban housing on the northeast corner of severance town center in cleveland hts?

\  You have to ask yourself, as a diehard Cleveland supporter who would live in the city by choice, if you'd live in a suburban setting near big box national retailers.  In a way, it's contradictory.

   

 

Any thoughts on the quasi suburban new urban housing on the northeast corner of severance town center in cleveland hts?

 

I haven't been there in about a year, but from what I remember, everything is still pretty separate.  I really don't see it as true mixed use.  But I guess that part of the appeal is in that, living there, you're not on an island like you'd be in Steelyard.  Residents still have a more holistic sense of community because there's other existing housing, schools, government services, etc.  There, you're buying into more of a community rather than just a development.

 

My hunch is that a large portion of people who want to live in Cleveland by choice (like many of us on UO) value the things like sense of community, urban character, the uniqueness of independent retailers and restaurants, history, and diversity.  Can any of that be recreated in Steelyard?  If it isn't marketable to the coveted young professionals group (when Tremont is two miles north) because it lacks the things that would attract most of them, would families buy into it (when South Hills is two miles south)?  I'm sure there's a niche, but I just can't envision that it would be a large enough market to sustain an entire project.  And if there aren't enough for a critical mass, I can't see anyone buying in...from experience, potential resident don't want to seem to be in a project by themselves.

 

I just can't see Steelyard as a good site for housing. 

^isn't it restricted because they chose to clean it up only to a standard that is sufficient for retail?  If they really wanted to, they could have cleaned it up to the point where residential would be possible. Still, I really don't think that it would have been a good place for new housing.

Living in the shadows of a steel mill what be pretty sweet, even though it would probably knock 15 years off your life span.

 

oh gawd. please dont remind me.

I haven't posted much on UO despite hanging around for a few years (love this site), wanted to make sure I read all the background before posting.  Was forwarded this and thought this would be the appropriate place to post.  It is a link for a petition to try a convince Trader Joe into Steelyard commons.

 

http://www.petitiononline.com/newsteel/petition.html

 

Every little bit helps.

 

Hmm, normally I don't know that our forum policy allows for petitions like this - but if this petition is successful, I have one less reason to go to Cracker Park (and that would mean a Trader Joes within 5 minutes of my house!). So I say it stays! :-)

 

And welcome to the forum!

I hear you,I hate going to the Crock...

Hmm, normally I don't know that our forum policy allows for petitions like this - but if this petition is successful, I have one less reason to go to Cracker Park (and that would mean a Trader Joes within 5 minutes of my house!). So I say it stays! :-)

 

And welcome to the forum!

 

I guess being the HBIC of the forum has its privileges?!   :wink2:

 

I hear you,I hate going to the Crock...

 

First "the prog", now, thanks to Mz. Peabody, crocker park will now be known as "the Crock".  :laugh:

I hate to say it, but the first phase of Steelyard Commons is fully leased, with the last tenants for Phase 1 coming in by the end of 2008. I have an article today in the two Sun papers that serve Cleveland about the last tenants for Phase 1.

 

That means that a Trader Joe's would have to go into Phase 2, for which there is only 250,000 square feet available. According to a First Interstate representative I spoke with, she says there is no start date yet for Phase 2 construction. So if you want a Trader Joe's, I hope you're patient!

There are plenty of outlots that are not part of the phasing.

^ I went to a presentation by a CDC in Pittsburgh that lobbied hardcore for a Whole Foods in a low-income neighborhood with a crime problem, and they ended up getting the store.  The project manager told me that Whole Foods liked 1) the aggregate income within a 5-mile radius, which if I remember correctly, isn't much different than that the same interval at Steelyard; 2) Whole Foods perceived the neighborhood was on the rise; and, 3) there was a plan in place to improve the commercial corridor in the neighborhood, and several parts of it were in the implementation stages (Whole Foods thought it wasn't the only business going in).  I'll try to find the more info online.

 

We really don't know until they say no.

I really can argue for a TJ's. While most needs are met locally at the market and Dave's, I still need to from time to time. For what ever reason they have the only affordable imported wines that do not trigger migraines. Also I can not find fresh flowers that last anywhere locally. Finally they have a couple cheeses and nut mixes also unavailable. I do not think anyone is going to get meat or produce at TJ's when they have the market.  It is kind of like the Target going into SYC- it is an enormous relief not to have to drive to Rocky River for things you just could not get anywhere else. There are always some things I am going to get at TJ's. I would just prefer not to drive so far for them and I want my money to stay in Cleveland if possible. 

I am not sure if I am remembering this correctly, but doesn't Walmart have some soft of deal with the developer to be the only grocer in the complex?  I know when Steelyard was first being proposed, the city only wanted a regular Walmart (non-super) and a Giant Eagle.  Walmart said they would walk unless they could sell groceries....that is when Jane went behind council and worked out a deal with Walmart so they could do a Super and suddenly the whole site was back on track.

This sounds familiar. I think they had some deal where they had to hold out on selling the groceries for a certain time period-probably long enough for the yo's yo 's involved with the deal -not just Jane-to think the hating local public would forget and not make them suffer in the next elections .  Does this sound familiar to anyone? I have not been to Wally World, but do they have "fresh" groceries? I know Target has a limited frozen and canned section. I wish TJ gathered better market data such as zip codes of customers. I know we would have one 44113 by now. I am surprised how many of my neighbors go to TJ's and  Heinen's. I am a WS Market and Dave's loyalist, but the market for these places is HERE. I think Heinen's has listened...but TJ's needs to get with the program.

^ I was just in the Steelyard Commons Walmart for the first (and possibly last time) this past Saturday afternoon.  It was absolutely gigantic-- unbelievably large.  Their grocery section is very-- larger than your typical Giant Eagle.  They did have "fresh" foods there as well.  Who knows how fresh, but they had they had everything there.

yes it looks like a good place for trader Joes it would be exactly in the middle of the two already built in woodmere and one in westlake i can't see why they wouldn't move to steelyard, The only reason they wouldn't move there is because of the income of the people who live around there, they usually want to be in a high income neighborhood (that is why they are located where they are now)

The only reason they wouldn't move there is because of the income of the people who live around there, they usually want to be in a high income neighborhood (that is why they are located where they are now)

 

Are you serious?  Please show me your market demographics.

[/img]

Westlake:

The median income for a household in the city was $64,963, and the median income for a family was $81,228. Males had a median income of $60,429 versus $36,999 for females.

 

Woodmere:

The median income for a household in the village was $32,102, and the median income for a family was $46,250. Males had a median income of $31,364 versus $28,214 for females.

Remember trader Joes in woodmere is placed less than a mile from some of the richest cities in the state

 

And the graph for steelyard commons pretty much proves that there is low income families living 3 miles away and remember those statistics from the steelyard website are 2006 figures Cleveland has taken a huge hit since then those incomes are even lower now. and i don't even know why they show 7 mile radius, if go more than 7 milesyou mine as well just go to Brooklyn and shop or garfield heights or lakewood. And I'm not saying that trader Joes shouldn't move to steelyard but i don't see why they would.

 

Without Walmart, there'd be no Steelyard Commons.

 

As the world's largest retailer and the anchor that all other retailers follow, Walmart has a heck of a lot of leverage to the point where it says jump, the developer asks "how high."  If it doesn't want other grocers in a development, it'll get its way.  So you have to wonder what's in that coveted lease with First Interstate that made the entire Steelyard possible.  Walmart and its hundreds of lawyers are going include whatever it can to ensure that the store is in the best position to succeed, even if it means creating a monopoly for one subset of goods.

 

I'm on the periphery of a deal in which, if Walmart doesn't come, the developer is going to cut his loses and walk away.  The thought is that, if he can't get Walmart, he won't be able to get anyone.  It's funny because one of the demands Walmart is making is that the municipality put a city police station on or near the site, and that's likely not going to happen.     

Cleveland there are some Low Income families in the Immediate area, however, downtown, Tremont, Ohio City and shoreway are the fastest growing neighborhoods in the city and some of the highest and most stable.

 

As proven in the earlier example, just because there are some low income people living withing the target zone that does not mean they have not been expose to higher end/luxury goods or stores.

yes those are the fastest growing neighborhoods but i believe those are the highest forecloser areas too, i mean have you actually drove threw those areas not the main street where they make it look like this is the best place to live go down each of the sidestreets it looks like the Ukraine after the Chernobyl accident.

Thank you for yet another insightful post!

yes those are the fastest growing neighborhoods but i believe those are the highest forecloser areas too, i mean have you actually drove threw those areas not the main street where they make it look like this is the best place to live go down each of the sidestreets it looks like the Ukraine after the Chernobyl accident.

 

If I lived in Dowtown, Tremont, Ohio City or the Detroit-Shoreway neighborhood, I would be offended by your gross generalization.

 

Yes, there are pockets of "questionable" streets and sections of those neighborhoods but comparing them to Chernobyl is misleading and ignorant.

 

Its apparent you post here to start sh*t and bait people into irrelevant, pessimistic discussion a la Cleveland.com style.

yes those are the fastest growing neighborhoods but i believe those are the highest forecloser areas too, i mean have you actually drove threw those areas not the main street where they make it look like this is the best place to live go down each of the sidestreets it looks like the Ukraine after the Chernobyl accident.

 

Yeah, the main street in Ohio City (Lorain) is so much nicer than the Ukraine-type streets of Whitman or Jay.

 

Genius.

Cleveland there are some Low Income families in the Immediate area, however, downtown, Tremont, Ohio City and shoreway are the fastest growing neighborhoods in the city and some of the highest and most stable.

 

 

Don't forget that, directly south of Steelyard is Old Brooklyn, one of the most stable and highest-income neighborhoods in the city.  The 2000 Census said that almost 35,000 people live in the neighborhood, and the median income was over $45,000.

B/C TJ's does not gather zipcodes of their customers they are erroneously thinking the customers are from the immediate area. When Ikea tells me Cleveland does not have a market,I sort of believe it, b/c they are at least gathering the data when you check out. Whoever is doing that campaign should gather info outside TJ's from customers to get a picture of where they live. Before the Crocker Park store opened, westsiders (even far ones) were going to Woodmere. Point being, b/c there are some unique products, people are willing to travel.

As someone who lived in Tremont for seven years (2001-2008), I can firmly say that "cleveland" is full of crap.  The area has only improved since I have been there and new housing is still coming online.  I frankly have no clue what streets you could possibly be talking about looking like Ukraine....oh, I think I know what you are talking about now....St. Theodosius?  :-P

 

 

If all of us agree to ignore him/her as a group, he/she will go away, or hopefully put more insight into posts here.

cd-cleveland yes i know 35,000 people live in the neighborhood, and the median income was over $45,000 but alot has changed since then one of my uncles moved out of old Brooklyn and moved to independence, he made $100,000+, his reason for moving "these damn ni**ers" i really never understood what that meant until i asked him, he said it was just getting hard to sleep thats all you heard every night was yelling and people running down the street chasing each other, He noticed a huge change in the demographics of the people there. I drove down his street to see where his house was and his street when he was moving had 3 houses for sale his and 2 others but now there are over 13 out of 28. i couldn't believe it and he was just amazed. i agree old Brooklyn was the nicest part of Cleveland but it has changed for the worst

Uh, Trader Joe's isn't expensive!  It's cheaper to shop there than Giant Eagle especially when you're looking for something 'different'.  Even a Whole Foods might do fine since it's way easier for 1/2 of metro to get there than to South Euclid/Univ. Hts. but anyways...

 

Please come! 

yes those are the fastest growing neighborhoods but i believe those are the highest forecloser areas too, i mean have you actually drove threw those areas not the main street where they make it look like this is the best place to live go down each of the sidestreets it looks like the Ukraine after the Chernobyl accident.

 

Are you crazy? The highest foreclosure rates are in Slavic Village and on the East. Have YOU actually driven down any of the side streets in Ohio City and Tremont?? I live in OC (and not on Jay and Whitman) and you see more homes being renovated than you see foreclosed on.

Before the Crocker Park store opened, westsiders (even far ones) were going to Woodmere. Point being, b/c there are some unique products, people are willing to travel.

 

Ever walk around the OC on trash day? You'll always see a handful of TJ bags being re-used as trash bags.

cd-cleveland yes i know 35,000 people live in the neighborhood, and the median income was over $45,000 but alot has changed since then one of my uncles moved out of old Brooklyn and moved to independence, he made $100,000+, his reason for moving "these damn ni**ers" i really never understood what that meant until i asked him, he said it was just getting hard to sleep thats all you heard every night was yelling and people running down the street chasing each other, He noticed a huge change in the demographics of the people there. I drove down his street to see where his house was and his street when he was moving had 3 houses for sale his and 2 others but now there are over 13 out of 28. i couldn't believe it and he was just amazed. i agree old Brooklyn was the nicest part of Cleveland but it has changed for the worst

 

Old Brooklyn is a large area. I can see how the portion of the neighborhood that borders on Clark-Metro might look like that. By the way, sounds like you come from a blood line of very open-minded and tolerant people.

 

Nicest parts of Cleveland? I'd say the Edgewater neighborhood, West Park/Kamm's, Little Italy and Shaker Square are pretty nice as well.

Are you crazy? The highest foreclosure rates are in Slavic Village and on the East. Have YOU actually driven down any of the side streets in Ohio City and Tremont?? I live in OC (and not on Jay and Whitman) and you see more homes being renovated than you see foreclosed on.

 

3231, this timeless advice from our beloved KJP applies to Cleveland - "Think first. Then write."  (sidebar:  KJP I think you have a product line in the making  :-))

 

If not, we call test the ignore feature.

3231, this timeless advice from our beloved KJP applies to Cleveland - "Think first. Then write."  (sidebar:  KJP I think you have a product line in the making  :-))

If not, we call test the ignore feature.

 

Such a simple bit of advice, yet apparently so complicated in everyday application.

Where is the "BACK ON TOPIC" post with the pretty picture?

 

I really don't mind Steelyard Commons and think it has a fair niche in the city, but I'd be disappointed if Trader Joe's went in to Steelyard. I'd rather see a TJ on the eastern end of downtown near CSU.

 

Now something like this in Steelyard would be really cool, http://www.junglejims.com/

cd-cleveland yes i know 35,000 people live in the neighborhood, and the median income was over $45,000 but alot has changed since then one of my uncles moved out of old Brooklyn and moved to independence, he made $100,000+, his reason for moving "these damn ni**ers" i really never understood what that meant until i asked him, he said it was just getting hard to sleep thats all you heard every night was yelling and people running down the street chasing each other, He noticed a huge change in the demographics of the people there. I drove down his street to see where his house was and his street when he was moving had 3 houses for sale his and 2 others but now there are over 13 out of 28. i couldn't believe it and he was just amazed. i agree old Brooklyn was the nicest part of Cleveland but it has changed for the worst

 

Ridiculous.  I have some relatives that live in Old Brooklyn, and they have no problem with it.  But I guess that's just because they are not a bunch of ignorant idiots. 

 

Oh, no!  Look at all the scary black people...I'd better move away to the suburbs before they start to corrupt my children and make them do drugs!  (complete sarcasm)

 

Please grow up.  And if you can't grow up, then try building a time machine and going back to a period where people were actually as ignorant as you are.  If nothing else, stop posting stupid stuff here and try your hand at Cleveland.com.  You'll fit in very well there. 

Where is the "BACK ON TOPIC" post with the pretty picture?

 

We aim to please!

its funny that the SYC thread has it's own special back- on- topic picture...mini malls built on allegedly toxic ground in an allegedly bad neighborhood is a hot topic I guess.

It has two, actually - this was regarding the bickering about what stores were beneath MTS's standards:

 

But folks - the next off-topic post gets the perp three days off. Thank you! :-)

It has two, actually - this was regarding the bickering about what stores were beneath MTS's standards:

But folks - the next off-topic post gets the perp three days off. Thank you! :-)

 

HUMPH! :roll: :roll:  :-P

And THAT is exactly what I mean. Sorry, MTS - we warned you.

 

Folks - when Admins or Moderators say "the next person to post something off-topic gets time off" - that's not the best time to add silly commentary. That's when it's best to:

 

 

Okay, I'll get back on topic.  Could a Marc's or a West Elm or Linens 'n Things be a good match for SYC?

West Elm?

 

Maybe elsewhere, but in SYC?

 

I love that store, by the way.