No, the official term is "Vortex of Death". See below ;-)

 

I travel the "vortex of death" by scooter. Fun times. To answer the question about how city folk feel about SYC, as I have mentioned previously I am very grateful to not have to drive to the burbs for the occasional Target run. I am not a big consumer of non consumables, b/c frankly I hate waste and just don't have room to store a bunch of crap. All that said, I know a lot of people that cannot go for more than a few days w/o going to Target. So if this gets them in the city, more power to Target. We tend to avoid home depot  as Sutton up on St Clair is just fine, but it has come in handy form time to time since Sutton keeps bankers hours.

hey, it's not a vortex of death like the so-called traffic circle at MLK/East Boulevard/East 105th in University Circle.  That is the most insane traffic circle I've ever been in.  Incoming traffic from MLK has to yield to everyone?  What the heck is that about?  Drive around New England, especially Massachusetts.  There are traffic circles everywhere (or roundabouts, as some of the locals call 'em), and they all work efficiently and logically.  Every road leading into the circle yields to traffic in the circle.  The one near SYC is a heckuva lot better than the University Circle one, that's for sure.

All signs point to the 2011 elimination of the University Circle/E.105/MLK traffic circle.

Surprisingly I've never had any real problems getting over to the 176S Steelyard exist coming from downtown. Initially I thought I would constantly miss it, but an opening always seems to miraculously open up just as I'm approaching the point of no return. I am of course putting a double whammy jinx on myself by writing this.  Oh well, I don't mind the W14th path. I don't think I have the courage to try jam40jeff's way, although it's intriguing.

 

I always thought that having a little bit of our New England Charm from the past was a good thing.  For those who don't know our past, we were originally part of Connecticut?!  I think.

Yes, the Western Reserve and points west were claimed by Connecticut at one point.  Some of the land was sold to the Connecticut Land Company which then sent Moses Cleaveland to survey.

 

Nothing wrong with a friendly traffic circle here and there, but I agree that the one at East/MLK/105 is rough.  I don't know what they plan to do there but there was some discussion of it in the big University Circle thread.

 

I've found the Steelyard Vortex of Doom is pretty tame, at least coming from the south on 176.

For what it's worth, if you want to see a little bit of what the Steelyard Commons land looked like when it was occupied by Otis Steel, long before it became the retail wonderland it is, check out a book called "Steel Remembered," which has a bunch of archival photos from the Western Reserve Historical Society of steel mills in Cleveland and northeast Ohio (primarily Otis Steel, Corrigan McKinney Steel across the river, and Republic Steel).  It's available at Cleveland-area Barnes and Nobles, as well as online at Amazon and other fine online retailers. 

 

It's a blatant plug, I admit, but if anyone interested in local industrial history, or likes industrial photographs, it's a good place to start.  And it's an interesting contrast, to see what was there, and the people working in the mill ... to what's there now.

 

 

FYI, Jimmy John's is (finally) open.  It looked mostly completed since late February, and was projected to open around that time.  Anyone have a sense of what took so long?

 

Absolutely nothing looks like it's going on with K&G Superstore.  They've been included on the pole signs since November (if I recall correctly).

Buybacks looks to be opening soon, if it isn't already.  Signage is up on the corner space next to Target, Alltel, and GNC.  From Steelyard Drive, the paper that covered the window looks like it was taken down.

Does anyone know how sales are?  It would be nice to see if they reached or exceeded projections.

 

I'd also be interested any knowing if those initially opposed to SYC, now shop there?  And, have any of the fears brought up, like the impact on neighborhood business, have materialized?  Or, has SYC enhanced traffic/sales at/in neighborhood business?

For us Ohio City and Tremont residents, it has become a very convenient destination. Because I work on my house a lot, I frequent Home Depot. I also rely on Target for a lot of things that I used to go to the suburbs for. I don't shop at the Walmart.

Does anyone know how sales are?  It would be nice to see if they reached or exceeded projections.

 

I'd also be interested any knowing if those initially opposed to SYC, now shop there?  And, have any of the fears brought up, like the impact on neighborhood business, have materialized?  Or, has SYC enhanced traffic/sales at/in neighborhood business?

 

There was an article in this thread from maybe around the holidays that spoke to that.

For us Ohio City and Tremont residents, it has become a very convenient destination. Because I work on my house a lot, I frequent Home Depot. I also rely on Target for a lot of things that I used to go to the suburbs for. I don't shop at the Walmart.

 

I live very close to SYC, yet I don't go there much.  Home Depot is probably the only store that I frequent on a regular basis, but I still prefer going to the locally-owned Ace Hardware in Garfield or Independence.  The problem, though, is that Ace is much more of a drive and doesn't always have everything that Home Depot does. 

 

I go to Target on occasion, but do most of my shopping at Marc's (still).  I think I've been to Best Buy, Staples, and Deals about two times each and Jimmy John's once.  I haven't gone to any of the other stores, including Walmart.

 

The only thing that really inconveniences me as a neighborhood resident is that Steelyard has seemed to bring awareness to the northbound ramp to I-176 at Steelyard Drive/Jennings.  I live off of Jennings, and in the morning people will get off of I-176 at Spring, then take Jennings Road to the other ramp.  Sometimes there's a chain of twenty cars that don't let me get out of my street.  It's a big difference from a year ago.

 

Other than that, no complaints.

good to hear.

Vegas - Schnieder working on Phase 2 at Vegas Convention.  

 

 

Tough times may make deals scarce at shopping center convention

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/business/2008/05/tough_times_may_make_deals_sca.html

 

Posted by Michelle Jarboe May 18, 2008 03:17AM

Categories: ICSC, Impact, Real estate, Retail

 

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Plain Dealer reporter Michelle Jarboe will report all week from Las Vegas.

• Read her blog or subscribe to her RSS feed

 

See which companies are going to the show

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

The glitz of the Strip aside, the mood in Las Vegas could be somewhat somber today as commercial real estate professionals converge on the city for the industry's largest annual gathering.

 

Money is tight. Deals are tougher to swing. Developers are reconsidering projects. Barely a week seems to go by without a major retailer going belly up. And consumers, fearing recession and feeling pressure from rising prices for fuel and food, are cutting back.

 

All that uncertainty, developers say, makes this week's deal-making conference more important than ever.

 

Read More...

So, Wal-Mart has been open for nearly a year, has there been any negeative effects on Cleveland retail?

Well, yes, actually it has. NCB is in a real crunch because of Woodforest inside the new Wal-Mart. And Target's parking lot is half empty whenever Wal-Mart's is half-full! :)

Somehow I doubt its the Woodforest inside Walmart that is causing a "real crunch" to NCB....

 

Also - the customer base between Super Walmart and Target are quite different.  Stop into either store and you will see right away.  I have found the SYC Target to be one of the best around with the largest food selection of its suburban counterparts.  Groceries at SuperWalmart bring in the crowd there.  I've shopped there and find it significantly cheaper then Giant Eagle and the OB Birite - however I stay clear of the produce.

lewarctj, I hope you know I was totally joking around!

Hello all, no actual news to share but I was back in town recently and had a chance to stop by Steelyard Commons for the first time.  We were headed from the Shaker Square area to Parma so it was sort of on the way.  We needed to pick up some presents for a few younger relatives so we stopped at the Target there and walked the Towpath.

 

I was pleasantly surprised.  Any extension of the Towpath is great, of course, but I think they did a good job integrating it into the site.  One great thing about the trail is the range of history you see as you bike through, and the steel mills make a great addition.

 

 

The overall plan is very boring and suburban, but I thought the signs and the storefronts were very cool.  That has to be the best looking Home Depot ever.  Probably the strangest visual is the steel Walmart facade in front of MetroHealth.

 

 

You can see the other photos I took here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jason-morrison/tags/steelyardcommons/

So, Wal-Mart has been open for nearly a year, has there been any negeative effects on Cleveland retail?

I think that is really hard to measure especially given all the other factor that are at play ecomomically.  I think the most interesting way to measure this would be to survey customers and see where they shopped pre Walmart. In my mind I pictured Walmart taking all of Daves and the West Side Markets customers, but I wonder if in reality they were just at Marcs, Save a lot and Aldii's before

imnotjason,

 

Being a regular at SYC, let me tell you how I feel about the whole place!! While I am no fan of suburban stripmalls OR big box stores, this happens to be the only place I'm tolerant of both. While most of my shopping in SYC is work-related, I will admit that I am fascinated by other criteria down there. The setting: in the Industrial Valley with views of factories, downtown, and MetroHealth, all underneath a busy doubledecker freeway makes for a quite unique location. The towpath, interesting facade's, and the history signage also makes it more welcoming to those who want more than a stripmall experience (e.g. people like us!) The implementation of a roundabout, the fact that my tax dollars are going to Cleveland, and the fact that most Clevelander's don't have to leave the city to shop at a big box stores now all make me think SYC is a great asset. To the naysayer's - if SYC was never built, the suburbs as usual would be where the business and tax dollars went.

I was driving up Jennings last night on my way to a show at the Matinee in OC and its just very impressive seeing how lit up SYC is with the steel mills surrounding it and the nifty marketing of the logo right up to the freeway.  I'm now intrigued that I'll have to check it out in the next couple months.  Its nice they don't use billboards that obstruct the view or if they do I didn't notice.  It truly looks like a destination maybe like a tower city annex for big boxes.  The other thing it reminds me of is Valley view but bigger and better planned.  They really did a masterful job with the theme.

I like the signage for Steelyard Commons itself.

 

Great first post, imnotjason .. welcome!

Just came from the Wal-Mart at SYC.  Let's just say that there is quite an interesting customer base there but at the end of the day I'm just like them, I like low prices and wide selection.

 

Jimmy John's was having a $1 sandwich special and as you can expect the line was out the door. 

Nothing too exciting, but the KeyBank branch is under construction.

Potentially some more construction is on the way for SYC.  In the lot to the Northeast of Wal-Mart.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2011/05/with_new_construction_projects.html

 

At the RECon deal-making convention, Schneider will be courting tenants for the second phase of Steelyard Commons, a successful big-box center in the industrial valley. The first phase of the project is about 97 percent filled by tenants including Target, Best Buy and Home Depot.

 

Schneider has a letter of intent from a retailer he will not identify for 70,000 square feet -- slightly more than a third -- of a second phase that could be built northeast of Walmart. He hopes to start construction next spring.

Does anyone have any idea if the announced 70,000 sq ft retailer in Steelyard could be an IKEA?

I would say... not a chance.

The average IKEA store is 4x that size.

My guess, based on absolutely nothing, is Giant Eagle.

^ I would say thats out because of the Super Walmart. If it was just a normal Walmart I could see that but since that Walmart sells food also, Giant Eagle is very unlikely.

I would say... not a chance.

 

Really? Why not? I think all they require is visibility from a freeway and a certain amount of sq footage, which 70K should be plenty.

 

70K is not nearly big enough for an Ikea.

 

http://flatpackohio.com/2004/08

The average IKEA store is 4x that size.

+1.

IKEA stores are usually 250-350k sq. ft - http://www.columbia.edu/itc/architecture/bass/newrochelle/extra/ikea_prop.htm

 

I would think many retailers including have sizes of ~70k sq. feet For what it's worth, Giant Eagle stores are 60-90k.

http://www.gianteagle.com/about/real-estate

I would say... not a chance.

 

Really? Why not? I think all they require is visibility from a freeway and a certain amount of sq footage, which 70K should be plenty.

 

70K is not nearly big enough for an Ikea.

 

http://flatpackohio.com/2004/08

 

Yeah, I did some more research and realized that too. I guess when you hear 70,000 sq ft you don't realize how small it is in comparison to some of those stores. Oh well, one can hope.

Do you really think Super Wal-Mart and Giant Eagle would compete.  I shop at Giant Eagle, but I refuse to set foot in Wal-Mart.

Since we are all guessing I will say Dick's.....or a really big dollar store ;)

Do you really think Super Wal-Mart and Giant Eagle would compete.  I shop at Giant Eagle, but I refuse to set foot in Wal-Mart.

 

Ditto.  I don't view them as competitors for that reason, and I'm sure there's plenty of others.

 

My in-laws live near a Super Wal-Mart, a Giant Eagle, and an IGA.  They shop at Super Wal-Mart for non grocery items, but do all of their grocery shopping at Giant Eagle and IGA.

 

I think there's a market for both.  Some people like the convenience and others don't like the idea of buying their groceries at a Wal-Mart.

Could it possibly be a Kohl's or a JCPenneys. You usually find those stores in a Steelyard Common type development?

Could it possibly be a Kohl's or a JCPenneys. You usually find those stores in a Steelyard Common type development?

 

Maybe Kohl's, although they seem to usually go in in pairs with a Dick's.  And JCPenney's are nearly always an anchor store in an indoor mall.

http://mobile.cleveland.com/advcleve/db_96782/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=3D0rQnnb&full=true

 

70,000 square feet sounds like a grocery store. But like others have said, the Super WalMart and the Target make me question why one would be built at Steelyard.

 

So what retail option is missing in the central city? A Kohl's certainly comes to mind.

 

Maybe Kohl's, although they seem to usually go in in pairs with a Dick's.  And JCPenney's are nearly always an anchor store in an indoor mall.

 

based on SF - i think a Kohl's or JC Penny would be a good bet.  Jam40Jeff - Actually JC Penny's have been relocating from indoor malls to stand alone stores.  They are reinventing themselves and resemeble a Kohls more now (as far as check outs, etc.) then they use to 10 years ago.

 

^The more I think about it the more I think it's a Kohl's.  Or maybe I just hope it's a Kohl's since I tend to shop there quite a bit.  I have a sister in law that works at their corporate headquarters... maybe I'll ask her to look into it.

there's a walmart, target, and giant eagle in close proximity around parmatown, so a giant eagle wouldn't be out of the question, right?

  And JCPenney's are nearly always an anchor store in an indoor mall.

 

That seems to be their old model. Their newer stores seem to be more like a Kohls--a one-level big box in a power center. In Cincinnati, they pulled out of at least two malls to go into these new models.

Bed, Bath & Beyond?

Do you really think Super Wal-Mart and Giant Eagle would compete.  I shop at Giant Eagle, but I refuse to set foot in Wal-Mart.

 

yes, they would compete... In many southern cities grocery chains and walmart compete head to head.  Because the CLE doesn't have the "super-walmart" concept to a large degree, your grocery prices are a good 30% higher than say ATL or CLT because there's no pressure to keep prices competitive.  Beleive me, I know.  It amazes me when I come to CLE to visit and I see the prices that are charged for food!  I have no problem with Walmart.

MD88PILOT, I live in Charlotte. Where in the world do you shop for food when you're in town? The Wal-MArts I have been to here in Charlotte are less than desirable and the produce is disgusting.

 

My family lives in Cleveland and when I come home and go to the store with them, I see similar if not lower prices than Charlotte.

If you go back to the original plans for Steelyard Commons, I thought they had always planned for a JCPenney to be built eventually. I'll put my money on that over any other options being built.

 

Although I would love if they full size gym there (like the Lifetime fitness gym over in Beachwood).