In yesterday's paper there was a write up on how the developer of legacy village wants to build a mall/lifestyle center on the west side of the river in Cleveland across from Scranton peninsula.  The mayor is very excited becasue it might include things like curcuit city and a grocery store, things that DT redisents must go to the burbs to find, which in turn will anchor more and more development.  And, if it looks anything like Legacy it should be very nice and certainly an improvement over the dilapidated steel/concrete mills that it will replace.  Ill find the article if possible.  Anyone else see this?

Chances are, it won't look like Legacy with the Circuit City and Grocery store going there. It sounds moreso like a big-box power center (aka fancy strip mall) but hey, atleast it gives residents in the neighborhoods to STAY IN THE CITY.

Thats what I said bu the article mentioned a mall, didnt say to my recolection whether that was inside or outside. I hope outside. Anything is an improvement.

Unless the article said something about Forest City Enterprises, nothing's going to happen. FCE owns about 90% of Scranton peninsula, and has been holding it hostage in hopes it can force the city to build a convention center on it's land behind Tower City (riverview parking lots, right next to Sherwin Williams).

 

Ideally, FCE would build a convention center on the riverview site, and across the Cuyahoga River (i.e. Scranton peninsula) they would put in about 3,000 housing units, some retail, and new infrastructure.

 

PS -- FCE had no involvement in the Legacy Village project.

FCE has the city by the balls, and it hurts. No one in city council, nor the mayor has the heart to demand use of this land from FCE. The city could use eminent domain, but I'm sure that FCE has city employees paid off (I believe that they gave Campbell campaign contributions when she was running for mayor) so nothing of that sort will EVER happen.

damn ratners

Are you guys sure about the project being on the Scranton Peninsula? Articles from Cleveland.com and NewsNet5.com say it's planned to go up somewhere near the Jennings Freeway.

 

Anyway, I'm new here. :)

 

EDIT: On closer reading of the articles, and reading some maps, it's probably going to be somewhere between Holmden and Denison Avenues, maybe across the highway from MetroHealth.

Ill quote myself to answer the above, "across from Scranton peninsula". Seeing as this includes anything on the west side of the river in the north direction that would include parts of the jennings freeway.

As I've been following the development of the project I can assure it's not going to be on the Scranton Road peninsula.

 

The area in question is east of 176 (Jennings Freeway) and south of I-490. I know that covers a wide area but it's well south of the Scranton Road Peninsula. I have mixed feelings on this because I see the positives (revenue stays in the city, new jobs) and the negatives (suburban-style center in the city, more retail that won't be in downtown).

 

Btw, welcome to the forum Equillibrius!

I believe this is the project your speaking of.  From Ohio.com (AP), 10/2/04:

 

 

Cleveland hoping for suburban-type shopping center downtown

Associated Press

 

CLEVELAND - With closed department stores sitting empty downtown, the city hopes to revive its retail business with a suburban-style shopping mall featuring "big-box" stores at a former steel yard.

 

The idea has been tried successfully elsewhere, including the Brooklyn, N.Y., Gateway Center, which has been fully leased since it opened two years ago.

 

More at Ohio.com:

http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/news/state/9819845.htm

I think they're planning on adding a Wal-Mart supercenter...from a Yahoo! story originally run by channel 5 in Cleveland:

 

 

Wal-Mart May Build Super Center In Cleveland

 

There are no firm plans yet, but Wal-Mart may build a super center in the city of Cleveland, NewsChannel5 reported.

 

The retail giant is reportedly looking at opening a store in the old LTV site in Cleveland's industrial valley. The store would be part of the proposed Steelyard Commons."

 

More at Yahoo.com:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=387&e=1&u=/koco/20041206/lo_wews/2485083

 

I hope its outdoor and NOT boxy.  Please do something right planning commision...  Somehting like Legacy might look nice...

Down here in Mississippi, a Wal-Mart was trying to get into one of the new richy suburbs.  This suburb, Madison, has extremely strict design codes.  Every building has to be made of brick, or at least a brick facade.

I guess Wal-Mart originally balked at changing their look, but the city stayed firm.

The Wal-Mart here is made out of brick, the only one in the world at the time it opened.  I will try to take a few pics tonight.

 

The point, if the city sticks to its guns, even big box retailers like Wal-Mart will conform to a design standard.

 

^ I think a lot of communities cave in to the fight because--deep down--their biggest fear is that Wal-Mart will walk away.

Something troubles me here. Where does it say big boxes have to be built big horizontally rather than big vertically? Or that nothing can be built on top of a big box built big horizontally. In Seattle, a large supermarket was built near the city center with townhouses on top of it.

 

Steelyard Commons' developer First Interstate proposes something like a 4,000-car surface parking lot. Why? The US Census shows about half the households in the city of Cleveland don't have a car. How can transit effectively serve that site? The Tremont Community Circulator? Extending the Cuyahoga Valley Scenic Railroad through the site to RTA's rail hub at Tower City Center? Wouldn't it make more sense to build a couple of parking decks with fewer spaces, more transit and more room left over for light industrial/commercial development that CWRU espouses?

 

This project could really be terrific, but lacks imagination or sense of urbanity. Instead,  First Interstate is taking a photocopy of its suburban real estate blueprints and seeing how it can physically fit in large enough an urban space. Seemingly, they merely see a vacant piece of land surrounded by population density. But they don't seem to understand the interconnected, synergistic characteristics that successful urban developments have with their urban surroundings. I just don't see First Interstate trying very hard to do this, and Cleveland city officials are desperate enough to give them a pass.

 

KJP

Down here in Mississippi, a Wal-Mart was trying to get into one of the new richy suburbs. This suburb, Madison, has extremely strict design codes. Every building has to be made of brick, or at least a brick facade.

I guess Wal-Mart originally balked at changing their look, but the city stayed firm.

The Wal-Mart here is made out of brick, the only one in the world at the time it opened. I will try to take a few pics tonight.

 

The point, if the city sticks to its guns, even big box retailers like Wal-Mart will conform to a design standard.

 

 

Walmart just opened a new "supercenter" several miles NE of the LSU campus here in Baton Rouge and it is all brick facade as well.

KJP, In North Olmsted, just outside of Cleveland, they are building a Target store with 50 apartments on top of it and condos around it at the corner of Brookpark and Great Northern Blvd.  I think all over the country, we are going to see more of that.  With the price of real estate in hot areas, you need to do more then build a 80, 000 sq ft building and parking on all that land.

nsc, I'm sorry to say that the North Olmsted project has been revamped to eliminate the above-retail apartments. I can't recall exactly where I read that but I definitely remember they scrapped the apartment component :(

The apartments were supposed to be built above the Target?!  That would have been a sight to see. 

 

Having driven by the area over the weekend, I don't think that piece of land is large enough to house more than a big-box store and maybe one or two strip malls.  Are they still thinking of building condos on it?

 

For what it's worth, Target sure has balls for building a store directly across the street from an existing Wal-Mart.

No, the housing was eliminated from the plan after the developers heard the "wisdom" of North Olmsted's city fathers. I guess they felt it would detract from the ugliness of the rest of the city -- already one of the ugliest in NE Ohio. :?

 

I say let's tear down a few buildings in North Olmsted and fill in those spots with more pavement. Then, Greater Cleveland could again have the largest airport landing pad in the world (like it did back in the 1930s)! Or, it would have the broadest expanse of impervious soil -- no wonder they have problems with extensive water run-off in their storm sewers (see the Georgette Sewer Project, which almost bankrupted the city).  :whip:

 

KJP

Shopping center set for old steel mill site

Saturday, January 08, 2005

Tom Breckenridge

Plain Dealer Reporter www.cleveland.com

 

 

Plans for Cleveland's Steelyard Commons earned final approval from the city Friday, promising an unprecedented 1 million square feet of shopping and a safe route for future users of the Towpath Trail.

 

Planners like the "trailblazing," $90 million project that developer Mitchell Schneider and First Interstate Properties Ltd. want to build west of the ISG steel mill, below Ohio 176, known as the Jennings Freeway.

 

The retail center would feature four big-box stores, a supermarket and a bevy of retailers and restaurants arrayed east and west of a curving route that would connect Quigley and Jennings roads...

 

© 2005 The Plain Dealer. Used with permission.

 

Sounds like a good thing for now, Cleveland needs some more retail in the city limits.  It may be big box stores etc, but they are reusing an old industrial park and not tearing down urban-oriented retail or anything like that.  I don't see industry being a big part of Cleveland's future economy, at least not like it was in the past, and this is a good thing because we see what being a big steel/industry center got us after the industry collapsed.  Decades of population decline and jokes about being the mistake on the lake.  I think Cleveland has learned from its past and will not allow a single type of industry to dominate it's economy again.

Interesting.  Any development news is good news...although this would make no headlines if it was being built in Macedonia or Avon or Strongsville.

 

Wonder what the restaurants will be.

Maybe the developer will throw in some residential.

Part of the reason the industrial sector in Cleveland is declining is because there's little land to retain businesses seeking to expand. This is a site that's ideally suited for manufacturing. Problem is, Cleveland doesn't yet have a city-wide development masterplan backed by a zoning code that hasn't been updated in decades, nor a revolving loan fund to assist in land assembly, environmental remediation, etc.

 

Given the lack of the above, the city didn't have much of a say in where desperately needed inner-city retail should go, nor did the developer have meaningful options of where else to put a retail complex.

 

All that being said, since half of all Cleveland households do not have a car (and those that do often have only one), I hope RTA will reroute some nearby bus lines to serve Steelyard Commons, so that inner city residents can shop there. But I suspect the huge parking lot will be larger than it needs to be, and fear it will become a trash-strewn, windswept eyesore.

 

KJP

KJP,

  Is there any potential to put a rapid transit stop on any of the existing lines near there?

 

  Just wondering

 

 

No, none of the Rapid lines passes near the site. However....the Cuyahoga Valley Scenic Railroad is working to extend its line north from Independence to Tower City using CSX tracks. Their goal, as I understand it, is to use their newly rebuilt Rail Diesel Car acquired from New Jersey Transit to provide frequent shuttle service between downtown and Independence (Rockside Road) and have a couple of stations enroute (Steelyard Commons, Canal Visitors Center and maybe Old Harvard Road).

 

Here is a picture I took last fall of their new RDC...

 

 

This may be a way for NE Ohio to get "a foot in the door" to a commuter/regional rail service, but would be a very low-density version of it. But, it could be a modest, yet important first step.

 

KJP

That's a good example of synergy that could exist between tourist train/rail museum operators and regional commuter rail to enhance the opportunities for both. It ties in nicely with the idea of using vintage trolleys from the Trolleyville collection on the waterfront line. Since the apparently successful trial runs in 2003, I haven't heard anything more about the relocation of Trolleyville, though.

From the 2/18/05 Plain Dealer:

 

 

 

City to hold back Wal-Mart grocery

Steelyard compromise bars expansion before 2013

Olivera Perkins

Plain Dealer Reporter

 

Council President Frank Jackson said Thursday that he will shelve a bill that the developer of Steelyard Commons said jeopardized the $90 million shopping center project.

 

Jackson said at a City Hall news conference that new legislation would be introduced in council Feb. 28, but he gave few details about the proposal.

 

To reach this Plain Dealer reporter: [email protected], 216-999-4868

 

© 2005 The Plain Dealer. Used with permission.

 

More at clevleand.com:http://www.cleveland.com/business/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/11087229179612.xml

 

so maybe now the campbell administration and the council could work together to help out marous with district and battery park, eh?

 

it's not time to rest on laurels for getting a glorified strip mall project done.

 

as for stores right off the top there had better be a home depot in that mix. kohls and the rest of the 1st interstate clients....who cares? they suck and worse it just duplicates the burbs. if only they would lure an ikea...that is such a perfect spot for one! bed bath & beyond? container store? meijers? andersons? whole foods? point being something at least a bit new and unique to the area that might draw some 'burbites back into the city. is that too much to ask or expect? siiigh.

 

 

^Good find

 

thanks punch.....

 

theres more info at....

http://www.goodmanrealestate.com/property.asp?idProperty=32#

^ Yeah...once they were told they couldn't open until 2013, I expected they'd back out.  Now they'll just build in another part of town.

 

From the sounds of the article I posted a few days ago, it sounded like they were ready and able to move forward without the Wal-Mart store.

On the map I posted, Wal Mart had already been "penciled in"....

 

that leads me to believe Wal Mart definetly WOULD have opened a store there, if it had not been for all the opposition.

I don't think there's any question that Wal-Mart wanted to open a store there.

Oh goodness no! Now the citizens of Cleveland will have to settle for other retailers instead...

 

:clap:

 

Fyi, I strongly doubt that Steelyard Commons would have had both a Target and a Wal-Mart. Here's why. 1. The two are willing to share anchor status in a shopping center like I'm willing to share the last swig of my morning coffee, and 2. Target has already announced plans to open in the shopping center at West 117th and I-90 (a Rysar development) - there is no way they'd have stores at Steelyard, West 117th *and* the Center Ridge store in River.

 

 

Today's PD headline was ammusing:  "Wal-Mart pulls out of huge development

Future of Steelyard Commons jeopardized?" 

 

Wal-Mart: anchors of all anchors!  :roll:

Wal-Mart pulls out of huge development

Future of Steelyard Commons jeopardized

Tuesday, March 01, 2005

Olivera Perkins

Plain Dealer Reporter

 

Wal-Mart will not open a store at Steelyard Commons, dealing a serious blow to the huge shopping center proposed for Cleveland.

 

Wal-Mart announced its decision in a letter sent Monday to city leaders. The decision comes as City Council worked on a bill to prevent a supercenter -- complete with a full-service grocery store -- from opening at the Steelyard Commons before 2013. The site is west of the International Steel Group mill.

 

Plain Dealer reporter Christopher Montgomery contributed to this story.

 

To reach this reporter: [email protected], 216-999-4868

 

© 2005 The Plain Dealer. Used with permission.

 

More at Cleveland.com:

 

http://www.cleveland.com/cuyahoga/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/1109673054323530.xml

If this project falls through simply because there isn't a Wal-Mart, I'd say it's more a commentary on what's wrong with the retail industry (and Wal-Mart's growing monopoly) than anything else. Is our society so 'feast or famine' that a shopping center can't work unless there's a Wal-Mart? There are plenty of shopping centers around the country without a Wal-Mart and miracle of miracles - they're successful - who'da thunk? :wtf:

Sounds like WalMart's plans were far from definite and it's the developer that's trying to use scare tactics. If he was counting on WalMart, I say let the project die and get someone with more imagination to develop the site.

 

I never liked Steelyard Commons as it is designed. It's better suited for an exurban setting, not an urban setting. Schneider needs to take a ride out to Cedar-Warrensville to see how big-box retail can be accomplished in a more pedestrian-friendly way. The design of Steelyard Commons has zero attraction to me.

 

I also fear the big retail development on West 117th, just north of I-90, will be designed in a similarly uninspired way. If you design it for access primilary by cars, that's exactly what they'll get -- more traffic congestion. The end result is that the pedestrian and transit rider gets screwed again. Do they know their customer base in that neighborhood?

 

KJP

I won't shed a tear if this development does not go through.  One positive to SYC was that they were going to put in a mile's worth of the towpath.  That is a very worthy project that needs to happen quickly.

I agree with what you have all said about this project.  Its just so lowest common denominator.  We should expect more in an area with a unique and important history and geography.  Of course, in this respect, see also the new development being put up in Garfield Heights.  One of the best views in NE Ohio, and I think that is going to be where they put the loading docks.  How can some developers be so blind.  That's value THEY'RE losing, for chissakes!  Steelyard Commons is similarly a missed opportunity to do something different and unique and therefore more valuable as real estate.

When ever and where ever one of these Wal-Marts are proposed there is opposition.  Well 90% of the time anyways.  The most frequent argument against the store is that it will put others, around it, out of business.  In this case its the other way around, No Wal-Mart = no other development :?. 

 

In Amherst, a Wal Mart was recently proposed, residents petioned against the plan.  The main argument was that nearby businesses would close (K-Mart, Giant Eagle, Bobels ect.) ..... within the next 6 months, THREE new shopping centers, totalling 1,000,000 square feet are proposed.  Go figure?!!?  Doesn't seem to be hurting business much....

 

I'm sure there are other examples of this happening .... it seems Wal-Mart is not an inhibitor of development but rather attracts other "big-box stores"

 

Just an observation.

But Amherst has an expanding retail market.  If a retail market isn't expanding (aka Cleveland) than any new retail development is taking from something else.  The key is how you create a retail mix in the city so that you aren't losing retail dollars to the suburbs, and are in fact drawing them in, while still making it possible for locally owned neighborhood retail to thrive. 

 

A greater percentage of any dollar spent at locally owned stores circulates within its community, because the profits and wages stay in that community, and the vendors and services they use are more likely to be local as well.  This creates more jobs in that community.  As an added bonus, the jobs at these local places tend to pay better, which means that they pump more money into the pockets of the community, which gets spent in the community.  Its a happy little circle.

 

Walmart's model is to cut much of this out.  Deal only with the largest international vendors who can produce merchandise at rock bottom prices (umm...child labor anyone?).  Get services (advertising, accounting, etc) on a national level.  Pay low wages, with few benefits, and force your suppliers to do so also.  This results in fewer dollars floating about the regional economy.  Yes, things are somewhat cheaper, but it doesn't even out for us as a community because much of the difference in Walmart's costs aren't translated as lower prices to our community, they are returned to Walmart as profit.  And don't even get me started on the actual distribution of the costs and benefits of this system.

 

This was all a very cursory look at regional economics, but it is 11:00.  But I will say this-one of the most immediate things we can do to bring back our regional economy is to buy locally whenever possible.

Sorry, I just posted some similar stuff on another thread that still exists...maybe someone with the know-how should combine the two? 

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=1759.0

 

I just read that one before this one.  Oops!

 

The other thread is general Wal-Mart talk.  This one is site-specific.

I got this off of Cleveland.com. It's back:

 

From WKYC.com...CLEVELAND -- A big development project once given up for dead has new life.

Video: New life for Steelyard Commons project

 

The Steelyard Commons project hit a wall when Wal-Mart bowed out of the deal earlier this year.

 

City council tried to put limits on the store.

 

Read More...

 

I think this will preclude better quality downtown retail development.  I am not happy to see this development revived.

I think this will preclude better quality downtown retail development. I am not happy to see this development revived.

 

I am on the fence again!  I want (better) retain options for the downtown/near downtown communities but i think this will drain any walkable shoppers.

 

These stores could be new built on streets in the flats or current warehouse district parking lots.

 

This project could also be built on hamilton avenue which would allow for drivers to pickup packages, have access to the express way and expand the waterfront line further east.  it would bridge and help housing development in the sterling-payne hoods.  CSU students would flock there for jobs.  this area is dying for a jumpstart.