The sculpture is up at the West 14th roundabout - honestly, I think it leaves a lot to be desired. The concept would work in a setting like Lincoln Park where people could walk/bike around it and get the effect. Instead, it's in a place where people can't actualy appreciate it since they're zooming by at 25mph.

 

 

And for sh!ts and giggles, the swath of parking as seen from the hill - the next phase is in the foreground:

 

And the impressive "interpretive center" :lol:

I like the position of the sculpture. It helps make a bland turnabout into something interesting. You wouldn't expect it to be there while you would it expect it to be in Lincoln Park. Therefore, you get more bang for you art buck.

My problem is the "interactive" component. I love works by Agam and others that force the viewer to move in order to experience them, but in this case it's not like pedestrians can walk completely around the roundabout safely. It's also not like drivers can slow down and enjoy the sculpture either. It's a good spot for certain kinds of work - but not this, where it would be more appropriate in a calmer space.

Isn't the whole perspective in favor of the driver who is coming from Tremont on West 14th. Since that is a fairly straight road, it seems the driver/passenger would have plenty of time to observe the image the sculpture is supposed to reflect... unless they are going really, really fast.

I haven't driven by there since last week, so I can only speak of what the artist has said in the past.

 

Isn't the whole perspective in favor of the driver who is coming from Tremont on West 14th. Since that is a fairly straight road, it seems the driver/passenger would have plenty of time to observe the image the sculpture is supposed to reflect...

 

I believe that to be the idea, however, IMHO, the sculpture should be raised a few feet in order to allow clearer sight lines. The current view, when approaching from W. 14, is blocked by a melange of directional street signs. Therefore,  I think the major flaw resides in the placement/installation.  Do you suppose anyone actually checked out the sight lines from the W. 14 approach before they 'glued' the thing in place?

 

 

On a separate topic, regarding the bike path that connect to the W. 14 sidewalk, I noticed a stroller jogger on the trail a few days ago.  Better landscaping would go a long way in making this connector more appealing/attractive to runners, cyclists, etc.  Anyone aware of such plans?

In fact, the whole SYC area could benefit tremendously from 'best-in-class' landscaping.  While it looks like Mr. Schneider has alloted fairly generous space for landscaping, I'm not convinced it's going to be much more than trees and grass.  Wouldn't that steep hillside look great planted in wildflowers?  Yes, I realize it could get mangy and hold onto blowing trash, but I for one, would like to see the SYC management take a serious look at such 'out-of-the-box' ideas and ensuing strategies for maintenance.

Since that is a fairly straight road, it seems the driver/passenger would have plenty of time to observe the image the sculpture is supposed to reflect... unless they are going really, really fast.

 

Sounds as though it may be a "traffic calming sculpture" designed to make drivers slowdown.

^ I drove by it this morning.

I completely agree. The scale is way off. I would raise it at least ten more feet.

"Sounds as though it may be a "traffic calming sculpture" designed to make drivers slowdown."

 

Great in theory, but if that was the goal they should have made four of the "hands" and set them up to rotate like a revolving door :lol:

Isn't the whole perspective in favor of the driver who is coming from Tremont on West 14th. Since that is a fairly straight road, it seems the driver/passenger would have plenty of time to observe the image the sculpture is supposed to reflect...

 

I believe that to be the idea, however, IMHO, the sculpture should be raised a few feet in order to allow clearer sight lines. The current view, when approaching from W. 14, is blocked by a melange of directional street signs. Therefore,  I think the major flaw resides in the placement/installation.  Do you suppose anyone actually checked out the sight lines from the W. 14 approach before they 'glued' the thing in place?

 

 

 

 

 

And here is he proof. Man am I disappointed.

 

These are all taken going south on West 14th.

 

 

 

Whoa, I didn't realize it was that bad!

those other signs make it difficult to see the sculpture.

Why do those shots look like they were taken in the Nevada desert? I had no idea that area was so desolate.

those other signs make it difficult to see the sculpture.

 

Exactly

 

 

Why do those shots look like they were taken in the Nevada desert? I had no idea that area was so desolate.

 

They're not. This is the top of the valley. Just beyond is Steel Yard Commons, Old Brooklyn, South Hills, etc. Behind me is Tremont and downtown.

The picture were taken just after sunrise.

I don't think that the sculpture should be higher. I think its fine where it is. I do think that the signs really suck.

 

They will soon be landscaping the area around the sculpture.

i drove through that roundabout last week and i forsee there being alot of accidents there.

i drove through that roundabout last week and i forsee there being alot of accidents there.

 

Why?

I agree, I foresee a lot of accidents as well.  I do have to say, I kind of like the big radio tower looking "Steelyard Commons" signs along the highway.  Just unique, that's all.  

I don't think that the sculpture should be higher. I think its fine where it is. I do think that the signs really suck.

 

They will soon be landscaping the area around the sculpture.

 

But there is nothing that can be done about the signs. They pretty much have to be there or all of the drunks will go the wrong way and kill people - not just the stupid ones. (sorry for the bad taste)

 

The area will look nicer when the landscaping and lighting is installed, but it still should be a few feet higher.

 

 

i drove through that roundabout last week and i forsee there being alot of accidents there.

I agree, I foresee a lot of accidents as well.  I do have to say, I kind of like the big radio tower looking "Steelyard Commons" signs along the highway.  Just unique, that's all. 

 

 

Seriously... why?

Besides the horrible accident by previously mentioned idiot, it is a proven fact roundabouts actually prevent accidents (see diagrams below).

However - and this is a big however - there is an admittedly higher instance of accidents in the first year of operation for roundabouts, particularly when the roundabout in question is a city's first one.

 

Moral of the story: SLOW DOWN!

 

to me it just doesnt seem like a very smooth setup.  one of the ramps coming into the loop juts to the left right as you approach it. doesnt seem like it will flow well. im jus comparing it to my experience with the one on MLK which i like and seems to operate very smooth.

to me it just doesnt seem like a very smooth setup.  one of the ramps coming into the loop juts to the left right as you approach it. doesnt seem like it will flow well. im jus comparing it to my experience with the one on MLK which i like and seems to operate very smooth.

 

Are you referring to the circle at MLK and E105? That might be the worst traffic circle ever conceived.

maybe im jus backwards. though whenever i drive through there (MLK + 105) it works well for me.

^have you been reading at all about the re-design of that circle?  Check out the University Circle threads to learn more about it. A lot of institutions and foundations are putting up some big money to get that thing changed. 

^Yeah everytime I pass thru "Suicide circle" there is almost an accident of some sort.

 

As for the Steelyard roundabout, the ramps coming in from the freeway to the roundabout seem to be the part I would think most accidents would occur. I think it would be alot smoother if all entry points were like W 14th.

I don't see any problem with either "roudabout".....if you can read, then you should be able to navigate it. 

 

The roundabout at UC does seem a little srtange to me though...usually the circle traffic is constant and oncoming traffic yields...but not the case there.

 

As for the wrong way driver comment earlier.....I was on the scene the other night when that woman ran head on into that poor guy.....it took forever to cut him out of the car.  The woman that was at fault claimed she got on the highway at St Clair...not the roundabout.....maybe the story has chaged since that night?

I suppose that best articulates why I think high accident -- just the feel of coming off of the freeway to the roundabout -- speed to slow, people are still just thinking "go".  I think roundabouts in general are fine and probably not more prone to accidents.  

Best Buy opens this Friday.

i was at SYC this weekend. I really like two things: the metal square signs that greet you and the rusty steel beams that support the store names. Pretty cool for a big box development.

They also put the landscaping around the roundabout.

Could someone please take some photos of this development?  I have a difficult time envisioning what it looks like now that it just about complete.

Take a picture of any large, suburban shopping center, add a few decorations reminiscent of the steel mill that had occupied the site, and you've got Steelyard Commons.

This is a view from the hill leading down from the "vortex of death" (aka the roundabout). On the left is one of the former bridges from the steel mill, now used as an accent to the entrance drive. In the background is the main "strip" of stores, in the foreground is the site of Phase 2:

....the "vortex of death" (aka the roundabout)....

 

LMAO!!! 

Here is a slightly altered version of a view from steelyardcommons.com:

 

 

Also, one thing I noticed about the roundabout pattern musky posted and SYC's roundabout - if SYC's was one lane, I think it would be safer. Instead, it's two lanes coming in (and leaving) and two lanes around the entire circle.

Mmmmmm, Vortex's!!!

Good lord, I have never heard urbanists ever complain so much about that circle. I think its pretty cool and quite easy to manuever. You would think that you guys were talking about the E105/MLK circle.

I think its pretty cool and quite easy to manuever.

 

In and of itself, it's not bad - but factor in other drivers (and that in general, most people are idiots behind the wheel), not one but two highway offramps (and an onramp), and that most people are accustomed to one-lane roundabouts...

 

I'm not the only one... from newsnet5.com:

 

Bigger Sign Erected After Complaints At Roundabout/Yield Sign Part Of Improvements

 

CLEVELAND -- Police are investigating what could be one of northeast Ohio's most dangerous intersections. The roundabout at West 14th Street in Cleveland has generated numerous complaints from the thousands of drivers who use it every week, reported 5 On Your Side Troubleshooter Joe Pagonakis.

Ted John Ogle of Cleveland lives near the roundabout and he shared his insight.

 

Pagonakis: "What have you witnessed here?" Ogle: "There are accidents everyday, collisions here constantly."

 

Ogle lives just 250 feet from the relatively new roundabout. It was put into service at Interstate 71 and West 14th Street on city's west side this past August because of the new Steelyard Commons shopping complex.

 

Read More...

No sh!t sherlock, but do engineers EVER take the human condition into consideration?!?

 

*cough* *cough* <puts on his engineer hat> Well, GOOD engineers are supposed to. Whenever designing anything that interfaces with humans in any way, it's standard dictum to take into consideration humans are highly error prone, easily confused, and generally lazy. So the KISS rule applies doubly. In Canada I believe professional engineers are given rings made out of a bridge that catastrophically failed resulting in many (hundreds?) dead. This is intended to remind them of their commitment to safety and good design. Maybe ODOT engineers should be forced to carry around a chunk of asphalt or something in their back pocket :wink:

 

  I still don't quite get what the big deal is?  I have driven that thing many times and it seems pretty easy to me.  I guess I should take into consideration all the people out there that drive slow in the passing lane, turn left from the right lane (not using the turn lane), don't stop at an intersection when the traffic signals are out (it becomes a four way stop), put their turn sugnals on when they get TO the turn instead of before, block the right turn lane when going straight, swerve over two lanes without looking to get to their exit, etc etc etc....

JDD, notice the part of my post - "and that in general, most people are idiots behind the wheel". That's 90% of the problem but the ODOT engineers are responsible for the other part.

In Canada I believe professional engineers are given rings made out of a bridge that catastrophically failed resulting in many (hundreds?) dead.

 

Uh, do they hand out rings a lot?

 

This is intended to remind them of their commitment to safety and good design. Maybe ODOT engineers should be forced to carry around a chunk of asphalt or something in their back pocket :wink:

 

I think ODOT engineers take that chunk of asphalt and cuddle up in bed with it. Like a teddy bear.

  I still don't quite get what the big deal is?  I have driven that thing many times and it seems pretty easy to me.  I guess I should take into consideration all the people out there that drive slow in the passing lane, turn left from the right lane (not using the turn lane), don't stop at an intersection when the traffic signals are out (it becomes a four way stop), put their turn sugnals on when they get TO the turn instead of before, block the right turn lane when going straight, swerve over two lanes without looking to get to their exit, etc etc etc....

 

 

I drive it at least twice a week. I never have seen any problems.

 

I am fairly certain I have stated a few times, the DOT handbook on roundabouts clearly states that whenever a new modern roundabout is built in a city (a city that has not had one previously - that is, modern roundabouts, not the traditional traffic circles), the accident rate actually goes up for the first year then drops off significantly.

^ That would make sense about the drop off.. But I have to agree with the other folks -- IMO, there's just something about this roundabout that's harder than others to navigate. It's like there's too much information to process too quickly or something. I wonder if perhaps the radius of the circle is too small? A larger radius would provide more space between the various entry points, as well as allow them to space the _many_ signs a little better.

I agree. I get information overload at that roundabout. I think the circle at East 105th and MLK is easier to negotiate. And, certainly, the circles in the heights are easier still, as the circles are large and thus, not so tight.

Our corportate headquarters in Maryland is built on a mixed use complex with offices, housing, and shopping.  The place has at least 5 roundabouts and a speed limit of 35MPH which means people go 45.  Not too many accidents but there are signs that tell which lanes are required to "yield" to the other lanes.  In addition, none of those lanes are lanes that come directly form a freeway.  I think that is part of the problem -- high speed and then BOOM, here is the roundabout. 

Dots open, Wal-Mart is coming

Thursday, June 14, 2007

By Ken Prendergast

Brooklyn Sun Journal

 

CLEVELAND As women's clothing store Dots opened Wednesday at Steelyard Commons, Wal-Mart has begun hiring as many as 375 employees for its super center at the retail complex.

 

As part of Dots' grand opening, a New York-style fashion show was held. The $1 million store is located between Target and Marshall's. Its 400th store nationwide represents a new look and store layout for the retail chain based in Solon and founded 20 years ago, according to a written statement by store officials.

 

"Stores that open in 2008 will follow the new look and layout while existing stores will be fully or partially transitioned over time," the statement said.

 

Meanwhile, the Wal-Mart opening in late October at Steelyard Commons will be one of the retail giant's largest stores. It will measure more than 200,000 square feet, said Ron Mosby, senior manager of public affairs for Wal-Mart. In addition to providing discount merchandise, the super center will feature a full line of groceries, including fresh meat, seafood, fruits, vegetables and a delicatessen.

 

"Our focus is to provide the greatest amount of convenience," Mosby said.

 

The store will not be open 24 hours like Wal-Mart's first super center in Cuyahoga County, located in Bedford. However, specific business hours for the Steelyard Commons store haven't been decided. Only recently was the store's manager, Chris Jones, hired.

 

Also, as part of redeveloping a polluted brownfield property or locating in an economically distressed area, Wal-Mart recently named the entire city of Cleveland as part of its Jobs & Opportunities Zone program. Chicago was named by Wal-Mart last year as the first city in the program.

 

"It's an evolving program where we give assistance to small businesses," Mosby said. "We'll be giving workshops on doing business with Wal-Mart and will select five businesses per quarter to give a business spotlight on our in-store network."

 

The selected businesses could be some that have nothing to do with Wal-Mart, he added. Officials at corporate headquarters make the selections. The first business spotlights at the Steelyard Commons store will begin Nov. 1.

 

He also said construction is on schedule for the new store, which will take five weeks to stock. Thus, that is why hiring is already getting under way. Employees, or associates as Wal-Mart calls them, can expect to see a different health insurance program from that which was offered by the retailer in the past.

 

Wal-Mart reduced the waiting period to for new employees become eligible for health insurance from one year to six months for full-time employees and from two years to one for part-time employees. Even with the change, Wal-Mart's workers still pay monthly premiums upwards of $11 per person and large deductibles. The average pay for a Wal-Mart employee is less than $20,000 a year.

 

Must've liked the article -- you posted it twice!  :wink:

You know me. 8-)

 

fixed

According to a listing in this month's Properties Magazine (www.propertiesmag.com), a 75K sq. ft. Dick's Sporting Goods will be part of Phase II (the northernwestern section) of Steelyard Commons - construction possibly beginning in 2008.

All but officially ruling out my hopes and dreams for an REI...

You know what looks really awful at Steelyard?  The demising walls in some spots are right in the middle of storefront windows.  If you look in some windows, you can see inside two stores at once.