^I know I am beginning to think this person is a real live troll. I am regretting attempting helpful advice. For the record, steel mill issues are semi on topic.

hmmm... Tower City did not make the list. Maybe it isn't so bad afterall.

 

 

Investigation Exposes Crime At Local Malls

 

POSTED: 1:52 pm EST November 15, 2007

UPDATED: 11:33 am EST November 20, 2007

 

 

CLEVELAND -- A 5 On Your Side investigation reviewed hundreds of crime reports, went undercover at local malls, and ranked the safest and most dangerous malls all over Northeast Ohio. Investigator Ron Regan found everything from stolen cars to sex predators.

 

"He was saying sexual comments to me and (I) kept saying, 'Dude, leave me alone,'" said Valerie Lasko as she described her visit to a nail salon in a local mall just before it closed.

 

Lasko was in the salon alone with the man who was giving her a manicure. He tried to assault her.

 

Read More...

 

^an exact same investigation was done in Cincy. I can't find the link. And I thought radio stations lacked originality.

Given the tens of thousands of people the visit those malls in a given year those numbers are ridiculously minuscule and statistically identical. Aside from the rapes, there's nothing there news worthy.

^And as I've often said - you hear about the car break-in, but you don't hear how the "victim" left their purse, valuables in plain sight, etc. I'm not saying they're the majority but there are things that can be done to help prevention.

Given the tens of thousands of people the visit those malls in a given year those numbers are ridiculously minuscule and statistically identical. Aside from the rapes, there's nothing there news worthy.

 

So true.  I'm actually really surprised how low all those numbers are.

"Question to you Cleveland, though I doubt you'll answer. If the burbs are where you love to be so much, why are you here, and why do you care so much about highrises and condos being built in downtown as evidenced in your frequent postings about those subjects in other threads?"

 

Because the worse Cleveland gets, the worse the suburbs get.  Look at Cleveland Heights.  Hell, look at South Euclid these days.

 

Plus surburbanites view themselves as Clevelanders. 

"Because the worse Cleveland gets, the worse the suburbs get.  Look at Cleveland Heights.  Hell, look at South Euclid these days."

 

Yeah, they both remind me of Baghdad :roll:

^Thank you.  I get kind of tired hearing about the demise of the Heights...which has been discussed for about 40 years now.  Cleveland Heights may not have the public school system it had 30 years ago, but it's not going to turn into East Cleveland anytime soon.

Because the worse Cleveland gets, the worse the suburbs get.

 

Glad you realize that.

 

Cleveland's comments aren't helping anything though, plus they're based on nothing. No break-ins in the 'burbs? Give me a break.

 

To get back on topic here...

 

Does anyone know what's going in next to the substation across from Target and south of Best Buy?

 

I'm somewhat surprised that Steelyard doesn't have a gas station yet planned.  It'd be a prime location for one. 

"Does anyone know what's going in next to the substation across from Target and south of Best Buy?"

 

Have you seen the lease plan? Are you referring to something that's not labeled or am I thinking of somewhere else?

 

PDF - large file:

http://www.steelyardcommons.com/pdf/SiteLeasePlan1.pdf

^ The spot I'm talking about is labeled on the lease plan as an available outlot.  There seems to be some sitework happening there, complete with the staking of a building footprint. 

 

I saw that Starbucks next to Chipotle opened last week. 

 

 

It might be the Key Bank ATM stand.

I saw that Starbucks next to Chipotle opened last week.

 

in case people were worried, steelyard commons now has two starbucks coffeeshops.  coffee and burritos...what a combo!

 

I am kind of relieved that starbucks has been slow to inundate the cleveland market.  without their overwhelming presence, we have been treated to great independent places like gypsy, lucky's, civilization, talkies, phoenix, etc. 

I believe peabody posted that in response to Cleveland's statement regarding "I don't have to worry about my car getting stolen, getting mugged or picking up some weird disease."[/i]

 

That said...

 

BACK

 

ON

 

TOPIC!!!  :whip: :whip: :whip:

 

I've covered a lot of newsbeats in Greater Cleveland, including in those so-called new suburbs in surrounding counties, as well as in the city of Cleveland. Let me tell you there isn't much difference between them. Most know their stuff and most care very deeply about the communities they're responsible for.

 

Everyone likes to pick on Cleveland and its inner-ring suburbs as somehow mismanaged. Well, I would love to see one of these "star" suburban mayors like Westlake's Dennis Clough or Pepper Pike's Bruce Akers do a better job. I doubt they or anyone else could.

 

Why?

 

For the same reason that every Ohio city, and for that matter every older industrial city in the Midwest and Northeast has a core city with decaying infrastructure, urban sprawl, and poverty rates that are at least 20 percent of the core city's population.

 

So are Cleveland's leaders responsible for the same problems affecting so many other cities like it? Of course not!! So what's the common thread?? Federal and state policies which allow, and even encourage the outflow of wealth and taxbases to newer communities rather than give older cities the tools and resources they need to repair, update and/or replace aging infrastructure, housing stock and commercial inventory.

 

Get to know those you blame, those you admire and then try to understand on a day-to-day basis why one person succeeds while the other one doesn't. As they say, walk in their shoes first, or at least by their side and experience what they experience before you pass judgment. I suspect your conclusions will be different -- if you open your eyes, your mind and use both.

I've been to Steelyard Commons twice. Once for the grand opening week of Dots and that is the best Dots that I've shopped at! It looks like a nice, legitimate store (instead of one of those hole in the walls where you get fake designer clothes). The clothing in that Dots seemed nicer too. Then when I was home for break a few weeks ago, I decided to venture into the WalMart Supercenter. I thought it was nice too.

 

Although I shop at "big box" national chains, I prefer to support local places. I still think that Steelyard Commons wasn't a completely awful idea. So many people went to the suburbs and frequented those stores anyway and at least they are putting innovation into the planning (the whole "steelyard" theme, the towpath, etc.). It could have been the typical, bland boxes found in suburbia.

 

Wolstein is proposing Heinen's in the flats. Downtown Cleveland doesn't need Wal mart neccessarily, and some of the new developments are proposing new stores to cater to neighborhoods. All of this goes back to Mayday's post about population. If the population isn't there, retailers won't think its viable and won't build, in the coming years there should be more new retail as more residences are built.

 

That's perfect for the Flats! Heinen's is local and the prices are competitive.

 

 

So....

 

Has there been any news on whether a JCPenny or a Kohl's will open there?

Okay, for the love of god, can we keep this discussion related to the development aspect of Steelyard Commons?

 

You want to discuss the environmental impacts of living/working in an industrial area? Take it elsewhere.

 

Final Warning for all of you.

 

 

i highly doubt that a jcpenny's or Kohl's will move to SYC i haven't heard anything about it but people in Cleveland look for cheap stores. I don't see how they could move to SYC

i highly doubt that a jcpenny's or Kohl's will move to SYC i haven't heard anything about it but people in Cleveland look for cheap stores. I don't see how they could move to SYC

 

Is anything you say based on fact?  You're really annoying!

 

JCPenney's and Kohl's are mid tier departments stores that would be a good fit for SYC.

 

They provide lots of "general" needs on top of clothing that is not currently available to city shoppers.

Glad the ignore feature is back!

 

I'm guessing we'll here publicly if JC Penney or Kohl's is coming when they officially announce tenants for the second phase. JC Penney has been moving away from the Mall format into a stand alone store format, so SYC could be a good site. Maybe they're waiting to see how the development does in its first year before signing leases.

come on now think about it if you were a store owner would you build in a city that had an average income of $23,000 and 26.3% of the population and 22.9% of families are below the poverty line. It just doesn't make any sense why do you think randall park mall failed, that place use to be one of the top malls in the nation now its just about gone. the reason people who live around there have much lower income and they DO NOT spend the money. why does southpark mall and beechwood mall and Great Northern do so well because people have money where they are built. SYC is going to be low-grade stores

Harlem to Heights, I've warned you before, final warning, no personal attacks.

come on now think about it if you were a store owner would you build in a city that had an average income of $23,000 and 26.3% of the population and 22.9% of families are below the poverty line. It just doesn't make any sense...

 

Then explain the existence of Steelyard Commons, since you Clearly have it all figured out.

 

 

I think that is "median income" which means that half make more and half make less but a low number none the less. I think JC Penney and Kohl's are a good fit for SYC. Don't forget that it is in close proximity of Downtown, Tremont, OC, and Edgewater that have segments of the population with higher than average incomes.

Harlem to Heights, I've warned you before, final warning, no personal attacks.

 

It wasn't a personal attack. 

 

Is there something you can do to prevent an individual from posting inaccurate information?  The posts are a major disservice to the urbanohio population at large.

come on now think about it if you were a store owner would you build in a city that had an average income of $23,000 and 26.3% of the population and 22.9% of families are below the poverty line. It just doesn't make any sense why do you think randall park mall failed, that place use to be one of the top malls in the nation now its just about gone. the reason people who live around there have much lower income and they DO NOT spend the money. why does southpark mall and beechwood mall and Great Northern do so well because people have money where they are built. SYC is going to be low-grade stores

 

If this link has been posted before, my apologies -- they are demographic/income numbers the developer is using to pitch the project:

 

http://www.steelyardcommons.com/demo.asp

 

It wasn't a personal attack. 

 

You Said:

 

Is anything you say based on fact?  You're really annoying!

 

 

Is there something you can do to prevent an individual from posting inaccurate information?  The posts are a major disservice to the urbanohio population at large.

 

I'd love to quit my job, and spend time researching every single "fact" ever posted on UO. How about you refute him through intelligent discussion instead of making me the post fascist. You're bickering and whining is a disservice to the community.

 

 

I think that is "median income" which means that half make more and half make less but a low number none the less. I think JC Penney and Kohl's are a good fit for SYC. Don't forget that it is in close proximity of Downtown, Tremont, OC, and Edgewater that have segments of the population with higher than average incomes.

 

There are also a large number of middle-class residents in Old Brooklyn and Cuyahoga Heights. Plus SYC is next to the Jennings Freeway which is a route used often by Parma residents. My sister stops at Steelyard Commons on her way back to Flamingoland.

 

Here's another stat you're overlooking, Cleveland... Retailers have been awakening to the fact that median income of a surrounding area can be deceiving. If there's 10,000 households earning an average of $30,000/yr within 2 miles of a potential store site and 25,000 households earning $20,000/yr within 2 miles of another potential store site, which one has the higher total purchasing power?

 

That's why high-population density neighborhoods, even if they have a lower income, can draw some respectable retailers.

if its a half-good indication for Cleveland: Detroit proper is getting a JC Penny (or was it Kohl's?). Granted its going to be on the fringe near the inner ring burbs, but if the average household income is there (and downtown's seems to be growing)....

JC Penney was at one point listed on the site plan as a proposed tenant.  However, that was removed a while back and it now justs lists the spot as "major retailer."

And about a year ago. Mitch Sneider (SP?) hinted he was talking with Kohl's... IIRC.

Since when did JC Penny's and Kohls not get put in the category of "low grade stores"?

I'd say Penny's is more "middle class" than low-grade.

Believe it or not JC Penny and Kohl's have been "upgrading" and trying to get a new image especially amongst younger buyers, though they are no Nordstrom to be sure.

Doesn't Kohl's sell Vera Wang now... not that means anything.

OK, I had to chime in on the Wal-Mart hiring news. This was my column in this week's papers....

 

Swarm for Wal-Mart jobs no cause for concern

Dec. 13, 2007

Write of Way

Ken Prendergast

 

So it was all gloom and doom when local media reported that Wal-Mart had more than 6,000 applications for just 350 job openings at its new supercenter at Steelyard Commons.

 

“Another sign of a stagnant local economy,” was the general theme of the news reports.

 

Sadly, little investigation or analysis was done to see how many job applicants were received at other Wal-Mart stores around the country. After all, such investigation might lead to putting the numbers into context. Or are we so down on Greater Cleveland that we in the media simply assumed that it could only mean bad news?

 

After all, our economy isn’t booming like Chicago’s, right? Chicago is a city some in Cleveland wish we could emulate.

 

When it came to the job application frenzy at Wal-Mart, we did — at least on a per-capita basis.

 

There were 25,000 applicants for 325 jobs at a smaller Wal-Mart opened nearly two years ago in Evergreen Park, Illinois, one block south of Chicago’s city limits. Chicago City Council shot down a Wal-Mart proposal 18 months earlier to build the store in its city. All but 500 of the job applicants listed Chicago addresses, according to a Jan. 26, 2006 article in The Chicago Sun-Times.

 

The same article noted that 11,000 people applied for jobs at a Wal-Mart store that opened in Oakland, Calif. Wal-Mart officials said they’re happy when they get 3,000 job applications at a new store. In populous urban areas, it’s easy to see why the numbers go up. It sure would have been nice to get that context in local news reports.

 

Chicago, Oakland and Cleveland, have been going through painful, often not voluntary transitions from a manufacturing-based economy to one based more on services. Once the bleeding stops on the manufacturing side, our local economy should start growing again.

 

Consider this employment data recently posted on the Cleveland Public Library’s Web site. The first set of data was compiled by the Plain Dealer in 1965 on Greater Cleveland’s largest non-governmental employers and their numbers of employees in the early 1960s:

 

General Motors — 17,900

Ford Motor Co. — 12,213

Republic Steel — 10,067

TRW — 9,405

General Electric — 7,843

Ohio Bell — 6,954

May Co. —5,450

Chrysler Corp. — 5,209

U.S. Steel Corp. — 4,182

Standard Oil Co. — 3,829

 

Just two service-based employers (May and Ohio Bell) made the top 10 largest employers in Greater Cleveland. The list from the Cleveland Public Library’s site was longer, showing the 25 biggest employers, including names like Higbee Co., Halle Brothers and, at No. 20, the largest bank, Cleveland Trust Corp.

 

The top 10 largest employers in Greater Cleveland bears little resemblance to one compiled from 2006 data by Crain’s Cleveland Business:

 

Cleveland Clinic — 27,755

University Hospitals — 16,611

Progressive Corp. — 9,017

Key Corp. — 6,397

National City — 6,051

MetroHealth — 5,503

CWRU — 5,075

Ford Motor Co. — 4,910

Sherwin-Williams — 3,176

Continental Airlines — 2,892

 

Just two manufacturing-based employers (Ford and Sherwin-Williams) made the top 10 in 2006. And Ford was the only company common to both lists. Thus, in just four decades, Greater Cleveland’s largest employers did a complete reversal.

 

Is this a bad or good thing? Since the metro area hasn’t grown in population since the 1960 Census, it’s not a good thing. But while steel-dominated Youngstown or car-dominated Detroit collapsed, Greater Cleveland diversified its economy and stayed even.

 

Once the economic shakeout winds down, we should see more economic growth locally. And we’ll probably continue to see more people flooding new employers with job applications like what happened at the Steelyard Commons Wal-Mart.

 

But it’s not unique to Cleveland. Nor is it necessarily a bad thing.

Somebody seen the light! ;)  Good Job!!

Cleveland had a Chrysler plant?

 

Oh, and nice work KJP

 

Thanks. I suspect the list referred to the Chrysler Twinsburg plant. The list is for Greater Cleveland non-governmental employers, not just Cleveland employers. And some automakers had subsidiaries that made parts, like AC Delco and Fisher Body were both GM subs. Don't know what Chrysler subsidiaries are (other than Plymouth and Dodge).

 

Anyway, BACK ON TOPIC, POPE!!

Likely that was the Chrysler Twinsburg plant, which opened in the 1950s.  They didn't really have the subsidiary operations like GM (don't forget GM also operated what's now called the IX Center ... first as an aircraft factory under Fisher Body, then as a tank plant operated by Cadillac (later operated by Allison, also a GM subsidiary).

 

Sorry, I'm just a history geek and like adding to the story ...

 

KJP, do you or anyone know of how successful (or not) SYC has been so far?  Has anyone done surveys or has the developer ever released any numbers?  Anectdotally, I was shocked when I went by a few weeks before the holidays and saw the Super Wal-Mart absolutely jammed with people.  The parking lot was absolutely filled ... as was the parking in front of Target.  That surprised me (especially since there's a new Target only a few miles away at West 117th), so I'm wondering if SYC is considered successful ... or is it such a work in progress that we'll be unable to know until more retailers open up, and the "Phase II" portion is completed?

 

 

^I remember hearing that the numbers were higher than expected.

Ditto. That goes for the smaller retailers and restaurants there. Sounds like it's time for an article, though, to chronicle the progress.

 

Safety-wise, I have to say another thing, too. I used to cover North Olmsted police news, so I got to see all the crime reports at Great Northern Mall. And thus far, the amount of shoplifting at Steelyard Commons seems to be similar to what happens at Great Northern. And come to think of it, I can't recall a single car being stolen from SYC thus far. Car thefts and thefts from cars was pretty much an epidemic at GNM -- but seemed to happen in waves.

I only really ever go to Target and Best Buy, but they always seem normally crowded compared to other Targets and Best Buy.

 

One exception, though was on the day after xmas.  We went to SYC to make some returns at Target, Best Buy and Marshalls.  At all three there was exactly zero people in line at the return counters.  It was awesome.  I'm not sure why...it was like 2pm on Dec 26th.  I thought I was heading into the meatgrinder, but I was in and out of there in about 30 minutes.

Returns are going down in numbers because of the increase in gift card sales.

Judging from their success in securing tenants, I'd say it's either doing very well, or they're making a strong case that it will do very well. There are only two retail spots left in Phase 1 ... one just south of Target and one in an outlot on the north end of the development, next to TMobile. By my count, that's 34 of 36 spots filled in Phase 1. Wonder how they're doing on leasing in Phase 2?

 

Assuming the retail demand is as strong as we think, and assuming that the Towpath gets connected to the Harvard terminus and the Scenic Railway comes north, wonder what the likelihood is that Steelyard could eventually get a mixed-use lifestyle center facelift? I remember discussions early in this thread about it being unfit as a residential environment due to pollution concerns (although I don't recall how much of that was personal opinion and how much was fact), but with the environmental remediation of the site, I wonder if that scenario is different now. And I wonder how the market would respond to residential components in the shadows of the steel mills, compared to in the faux downtown of Cracker Park.

I think when we were talking about residential or mixed-use potential in the site, it was more opinion. I still feel that the site is unattractive for any residential component with ISG in plain view.

I think when we were talking about residential or mixed-use potential in the site, it was more opinion. I still feel that the site is unattractive for any residential component with ISG in plain view.

 

i can't find a cite right now, but i'm pretty sure that cercla / ohio brownfield law has a range of cleanup based on the level of contamination, the contaminants, and the future use of the property.

 

i'm pretty sure that there is a legal reason why there is no residential built or planned for that area, regardless of whether of not anyone would want to live there.  i believe tt was cleaned up to the level necessary for commercial use only.