i don't really ever post anytyhing - but this discussion has been amusing.  I live in the Tremont neighborhood and love it because I can walk to the library, park, restaurant, bars and be so close to downtown, etc.  However, me like most of my neighbors, are incredibly HAPPY to have SYC as a neighbor!  No more 20 minute drives to the suburbs to do shopping that can't easily be done in the city already.  Once an eyesore, the area will be a welcoming area and even make the urban neighborhoods more attractive to people considering moving back to the Cleveland. 

 

It is amazing how all these heated discussions are chimed in by people that may (an assumption) live in the surburbs and have no idea what a pain it is to have to drive to Parma/Brooklyn or other cities to do most of the shopping.  Regardless of what you think about this development - the people that will actually use it, the CITY residents, are excited to finally have it as an option.  Plus - the extension of the towpath is going to be great!

Once an eyesore, the area will be a welcoming area and even make the urban neighborhoods more attractive to people considering moving back to the Cleveland. 

 

This poster is absolutely correct. As with all of my previous posts on this thread I am 1000% behind this project. There are acres and acres of land in the industrial flats that could be demo`d and put to better use. Hopefully this is the start of something that may change the face of an area that literally chokes the life out of us everyday. Just because it has been industrial over the last 150 years, doesn't mean that is it's future.  The dilapidated mills have dragged down the progress of this city for many years-it is time to move on.  Lets return the valley to something more livable for everyone. The days of the big city industry is over, it does nothing but repel those who want to be a part of an urban area. SYC is a start, and maybe one day it will be surrounded by more habitable areas that we all can enjoy. As Bill Walton might say "Tear it down big fella, tear it down"

Once an eyesore, the area will be a welcoming area and even make the urban neighborhoods more attractive to people considering moving back to the Cleveland. 

 

I respectfully disagree.  Massive parking lots are equally eyesores and wastes of space.  Since SYC won't actually be in a neighborhood, it won't make any neighborhoods more attractive.  It will benefit people already living in nearby neighborhoods, though, because of its proximity.

 

As far as "attracting" people back to Cleveland--Macedonia et. al. already exist for people who want big box shopping.  Why would anyone move into the city because of this project?

 

The days of the big city industry is over, it does nothing but repel those who want to be a part of an urban area.

 

Let the days of the big city $6/hr wage slave begin!

There is a more expensive and thorough remediation process that must be followed for residential uses.

 

I understand. I just can't figure out why. I spend more time at work than I do at home, as with most of us poor people who have to work more hours or jobs to make ends meet.

I don't consider the area is as isolated as some do. There will be a bicycle/walking path coming down the hill from Tremont at the north end. And, a walkway built over I-71 from MetroHealth on the west end would improve access to/from its 6,000 workers, plus the neighborhood.

 

As for residential, I also don't think it's as bad a site as some suggest. Keep in mind that the remaining steel mills are to the east of SYC. Rarely is there an east wind in this city and when it does happen, it's in winter when most are indoors. Brownfield contaminants are a concern, but why aren't they a concern for retail workers who will spend eight hours a day at SYC? I think some subsidized housing, live-work, day care, business incubators, and a tech college/continuing education would make for a nice welfare-to-work economic engine at that site.

 

i would think the contaminant allowances are not the same for residential as for business. also, kjp??? oh man as someone who lived near a steelplant as a kid, toured them and has memories of orange skies day and night and of wiping orange soot off the windows regularly, i am no shrinking violet on the smoke, smells or any part of it, but you don't want to live on top of a former steel plant -- believe me.

 

On that score, I don't think I'd want to spent most of my day working on top of one either.

 

Freethink, we still have to manufacture things. It's extremely dangerous to rely on other nations to build things for us, if not for national security than for ensuring good wages and a decent standard of living. Remember, not everyone is a brainiac to work in the technology or health care fields. They still need to be able to make a good living, and that usually means manufacturing, placed near a large labor supply and near water resources.

 

The decline of manufacturing in America is a key part of America's decline, just as it was England's a century ago. Now it's our turn, rooted in our own failed policies. And just as we were there to take over as the #1 economy from England, China appears poised to take over from us. That is, unless we get our house in order including offering more modern, efficient and environmentally friendly manufacturing facilities. And the Flats is as appropriate a place to put them as any.

^ I agree in part. But industry does not have to "equal" rusted out, 100 year old dilapidated structures that destroy the quality of life of those that surround it. No one type of manufacturing should be able to dictate to us how we should be able to enjoy the land that is around us. It's not being a good neighbor-especially when those that benefit from it the most are physically far removed from it-when the closest they get to it is their weekly conference call. I am all for manufacturing, but until this country can produce products that we can actually afford, we have to explore other ways. This city has enormous brain potential, probably more than most-I believe the industrial flats can be put to better use-with a mix of nature,recreational, residential and light industry. But the type of industry that has been in the flats for the last 150 years should not be within a densly populated area.

Whose waterway would you put steelmaking next to?

KJP you had mentioned the option of putting a Tech Center in the Welfare-to-Work mode. I think that's a good idea. Yet SYC will exactly be that in a way...it will open up opportunites to people that currently can't find employment now. And however meager it is...it provides an improvement in living standards for people in Cleveland.

 

As for CostCo....if CostCo really gave a shit about this project...they would've signed on. Yet they seem to be focused on suburban areas of fast growing metros. They're basically trying to 'raise' the living standards of high school kids and immigrants that live in these areas. I'm no fan of CostCo until they take a view like a Home Depot...and are willing to take a few chances in not so pretty neighborhoods around the country.

Whose waterway would you put steelmaking next to?

somewhere I can't see it... hey how 'bout DC-they've got a river. What a better way to display our country's manufacturing might. Let them deal with it for a while.

Then it's just a matter of beauty in the eye of the beholder? I think those huge steel mills are some of the most awe-inspiring creations of man. It causes me great pain to see them fade away from the Cuyahoga Valley, and almost completely disappear in the Mahoning Valley. I guess we as a nation could always keep building an economy on delivering pizzas to each other, rather than show our engineering, manufacturing, marketing and systems integration prowess as we had before.

 

Those mills were such striking signs of our nation's economic power that Hitler and Tojo wanted them destroyed militarily. Their more peaceful successors instead used economics to destroy them, just as we were complicit in making ourselves vulnerable to this new world war, er, order. Instead, we'll use those mill sites to sell goods made in other nations -- the things we used to make in this nation. Then, after work making minimum wage, we can ride our bicycles down the Towpath Trail to a nice secluded spot where our grandfathers once labored, and fought with his union brothers for decent pay so he could join the ranks of the middle class. Now there are fewer of us in the middle class, and more in poverty. But we can all feel better after hugging a tree in the Cuyahoga Valley...

This is a very interesting thread.  There is two points I would like to make:

 

1. We as a nation don't make anything anymore.  The private non-good producing industries account for approximately 70% of total economic activity in the US.  http://www.census.gov/econ/www/servmenu.html  These non-good producing industries include retail trade, wholesale trade, and the service industries.  The loss of manufacturing will mean the loss of the middle class.  There is nothing around it.  I believe there be a time in the short future we will revert back to manufacturing.  There has to be, we cannot sustain ourselves like this.   

 

2. Now, with that being said, I am not against SYC.  I think it will provide a vital amenity for the surrounding neighborhoods.  I live in Old Brooklyn, and if I want to do any shopping, lets say Lowes or even Koles. I am off to Parma.  This at least lets me shop in the city.  There is pretty much 0 percent shopping options, especially in OB.   No grocery stores, no retail, no nothing.  I have to go to Parma for everything.  If it is used to keep people shopping in the city, I like it.  We all go to these places anyway, the difference now is it will be in Cleveland.  Let’s be honest about another thing.  Everyone wants to attract people from the suburbs, to do that you have to offer something they are accustomed to.  This kinda retail is it.  My spending habits will be EXACTLY the same; now instead of Parma getting my money it will be Cleveland.   

Steelyard Commons takes form

Wednesday, July 12, 2006

Christopher Montgomery

Plain Dealer Reporter

Construction of Steelyard Com mons -- the $120 million, 1-million-square-foot open-air shopping center in Cleveland's Industrial Valley -- has reached the halfway mark.

 

Its developer, Lyndhurst-based First Interstate Properties Ltd., is still on track to open the shopping center's first phase, 650,000 square feet of retail space and four freestanding restaurants, by spring. An additional 250,000 square feet will be added after that.

 

"When you get into site work on 125 acres that were formerly part of a steel plant, there are going to be some physical challenges," said Mitchell Schneider, First Interstate's president. "But so far, there's been nothing insurmountable, nothing budget-breaking and nothing that's created a serious time delay."

 

...

 

Schneider said the exhibit building will sit alongside a small park that will have ticket booths for the Cuyahoga Valley Scenic Railroad, which plans to extend its rail line into downtown Cleveland, and a comfort station for users of a proposed extension of the Towpath Trail.

 

Read More...

 

 

 

I agree that retaining some manufacturing in America is crucial; however, manufacturing has changed a great deal.  Instead of giant plants and complexes where things are made, nowadays most manufacturing is actually done in small shops and facilities (usually where individual components and subassemblies are made), and then if there is a big plant, it's where everything is finally assembled.  So Cleveland can still be a major manufacturing center, but the days of huge complexes like TRW, White Motors, Warner and Swasey, Cleveland Twist Drill, National Acme, Republic Steel, et al, are over.  That's just the way it is.

 

And while steel is still important, no one's building the very large integrated steelworks complex any more.  The only new steel mills in America have been minimills, which are extremely compact.  And most of those have been built in more labor-friendly (i.e., places where organized labor isn't as strong as it is in the old Rust Belt) areas than in traditional steel centers.  This is why Indiana's the biggest steel-producing state in the US.  Not just for the giant mills on the northern shore of Indiana around Gary, but for the numerous minimills like Nucor in Crawfordsville.  Cleveland's been lucky to still retain Mittal's Cleveland Works (nee ISG, LTV, Republic, Corrigan McKinney), which is an infinitely leaner and meaner operation than 50 years ago.  Nowadays, a few thousand can outproduce the decades when tens of thousands worked there.

 

It's almost like the passing of an era, with old industrial Cleveland making way for something new and unknown, but these things happen.  Before the steel mills, the Cuyahoga valley was all farm and orchard ... and undoubtedly when the steel mills went up in the 1910s, many people mourned the loss of those farms and orchards, much like people today are mourning the loss of the mills.  And in a few generations, Steelyard Commons will be plowed under for something else, and people will mourn it.  It's a neverending chain.

 

And while I've not lived in Tremont (though I do remember the days back in grad school when my buddy lived there in a house that sold for $13,000), I do agree that SYC is a boon to the area, because it finally gives the folks who live around there nearby shopping options.  They don't have to waste the gas or time to haul out to the suburbs now for their shopping, which is a plus. 

 

And I think the shopping center may do some revitalizing of the area.  Look at the "Waterfront" shopping center in Pittsburgh, built atop what was once the mighty Homestead Works of US Steel.  It's kinda bland, as far as shopping goes (it's a mix between a strip shopping center and a faux-neighborhood "lifestyle center," a la Crocker/Legacy), but last time I went by, the place was packed.  And it is exactly what an economically-depressed area like the boroughs of Homestead and Munhall need. 

 

The mills aren't going to come back; if there's a chance to redevelop the property into something that will generate revenue, then it should be pursued.  Yes, the wages in retail aren't like the wages in the steel industry; but then again, the steel industry only has a fraction of the employees that it once did, so those jobs are few and far between.  That ship has sailed.  Let's see what's on the horizon.

 

That said, I'm also glad for the VERY small museum there (except that it should be a HELL OF A LOT BIGGER), because at least it will introduce some folks to the industrial heritage of the site, and hopefully they'll learn about the history and importance of the steel industry to Cleveland's development and growth.  There's a hell of a lot of us in this city today who are here because our ancestors came here to work in the mills.

 

I just wish Schneider had saved a bigger building than a little tiny grease house (that's what the building was originally used for, not offices), so that the exhibit could be bigger than a six hundred square feet (I heard it's actually smaller than that).  There's plenty of films, photos, and artifacts available to make a really good exhibit ... but not enough space in that little shack.

 

I'm registering a renewed vote of excitement for this project... Glad to hear that progress is being made!

redbeard that was a fantastic reply. you said it all so much better than i ever could.

Lots of thoughtful posts on this thread; a very good discussion.  Just a reminder that industry came up on this thread not as a lament for Cleveland's changing economy (although manufacturing is still a very large part of our economy) but to rebut the notion that big box development is the only type of development suitable for this site.  New industrial projects are still built in our region.  I don't think anyone was holding out for a new giant plant with 10k union jobs.

 

All to say that I am happy the city is getting much-needed retail and I would surely suck it up and shop there if I lived nearby, but I'm saving my excitement for retail development that is little more neighborhood accessible.

 

There is an interesting tension between the eye-sore factor of a development like this (which makes me want to hide it away from the 'hoods- like SYC) and its accessibility/integration with the city (like Church Square, for example).

I'm assuming that the SYC section of the towpath is contingent on the section between Harvard Road and SYC being built? Who is overseeing the effort to build that section and what is the status? (Perhaps this is a question for another thread.)

I'm pissed. I had an article about SYC sitting in our computer at Sun and wasn't published for two weeks due to lack of space. Now, the PD has an article out today and mine won't come out until tomorrow. I could've scooped the PD by two weeks if....  arrrg!

^ kjp get on the blower and give your editor j. jonah jamison the what for!!!

WKYC report on the new W14th Quigley connector

http://wkyc.com/video/player.aspx?aid=26007&bw=

Its on the front page of the wkyc website-if the link doesn't work.

wow, obie really wasn't prepared for that interview!  maybe that's because it was like 5:00 in the morning!

 

^ kjp get on the blower and give your editor j. jonah jamison the what for!!!

 

I wish my editor was Jenna Jameson! Talk about getting on the blower!

any news on this front?

TOWPATH EXTENSION DETAILS

 

click through to the ODNR press release which has a blurb about how $$ will be used to fund the 3/4 mil

http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/news/oct06/1004cleanohio.htm

Two gigantic towers advertising the center have gone up along 176. I didn't have a camera, but they're tall steel (colored towers) with "STEELYARD" in large red lettering. And they're ginormous.

 

Glorious.  I've always looked for ways to support big box retail without having to travel so far from my house.

I saw the signs today on my way downtown.

I like the retro look to them. I can see how many people will not like them much, but those people probably complain about everything and are the smae people who do not like the Cleveland Trust tower :-D

 

Anyway, I could not get my camera out in time, but did see this on WKYC:

 

http://www.wkyc.com/news/rss_article.aspx?ref=RSS&storyid=58072

I kinda like 'em!

There is a picture of them in this mornings PD.  They are not billboards...I like them.

It makes me think of the scene in Rocky Horror at the end when the giant RKO Radio Tower is on stage.

I saw them this morning (as I was taking the cat to the animal hospital at 3am). They looked cool. A true suburban-style sign would look so out of place in that location.

Like this

I saw them this morning (as I was taking the cat to the animal hospital at 3am). They looked cool. A true suburban-style sign would look so out of place in that location.

 

Yes, because suburban-style buildings won't look out of place at all.... 

They remind me of the Biltmore antenna/radio towers.

from the WKYC site:

 

CLEVELAND -- The new shopping complex, Steelyard commons, is really taking shape.

Tuesday morning, cranes lifted two 150-foot tall signs at the site -- that's 15 stories to you and me.

 

The towers will be the main landmarks and welcome signs for the new shopping center.

 

Steelyard Commons is scheduled to open in spring of 2007 and generate 1,800 jobs.

 

 

Steelyard Commons center is taking shape

Thursday, October 19, 2006

By Ken Prendergast

Brooklyn Sun Journal

 

Weather permitting, two 150-foot-tall lighted sign towers were scheduled to be erected this week at the Steelyard Commons retail center.

 

The two sign towers are as tall as 15-story buildings and, once lit, will appear as beacons along Interstate 71 and the Jennings Freeway.

 

One word will appear vertically on both sign towers _ Steelyard. They will be lit with red lights and serve as the official welcome signs at the north and south ends of the complex, one of the largest open-air retail centers ever built in Cuyahoga County.

 

Read More...

Criticise big-box retail as much as you want but this project seems like it's being put together really well. It's unique and pays homage to the area's heritage which is the best thing we could ask for when it comes to a shopping center like this.

I didn't realize it was openning so soon. maybe time just flies.

It was supposed to open by Christmas, but they had to remove more contamination than they had previously estimated. Imagine that. ;)

  I wonder if they were using vision and put some red light/speeding cameras on those towers?  :roll:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but with the SYC investment in the Towpath, along with the recent funding secured on the state level, the trail's extension to the north end of SYC is already financed?  If that's correct, that's really awesome...  I can definitely ride my bike to this point and continue on from there.  I wonder if the state funding would have been attainable this round without the planned investment from First Interstate.

^That is correct MGD. The "missing link" between SYC and where the path current ends at Harvard Road is 3/4 of a mile, and funding was secured pretty recently (details in the towpath thread). It is a huge deal!

 

Edit: Ah, here we go, I found the info. From an Oct. 7, 2006 Beacon Journal article posted by grasscat:

 

The Ohio & Erie Canal Towpath Trail has received two financial boosts toward expansion.

Metro Parks, Serving Summit County, will get $250,000 to build a section of the trail in southern Summit County, and Cuyahoga County Engineer Robert Klaiber is to receive $425,000 for a section at the southern edge of Cleveland.

Both grants came from the final round of Clean Ohio Trail Funds.

...

The grant will fund construction of three-fourths of a mile of trail from Lower Harvard Avenue north into the Flats area of Cleveland, [Tim Donovan of Cleveland's Ohio Canal Corridor] said.

That extension will connect with an additional one mile of trail at Steelyard Commons being built by a private developer, First Interstate, he said.

The trail must be extended six miles through the Flats area before it will end at Cleveland's planned Canal Basin Park. That extension will likely cost $44 million. To date, about $25 million has been pledged.

So there will be six miles remaining because it has to wind around so much?  That sounds like a lot of mileage!

blinker thx for clarifiying the towpath progress. its great news so far. being around $20m from completion is not bad, i had thought the cost would still be much more.

 

i like the look of the new syc tower signage, that's pretty cool.

Ok, this is great project, I guess.  Why didn't this get built on Euclid (I didn't read the entire thread  8-)) , is there going to be rail access?  I look like a rail line is running to it.  Will this mall be easily accessible to downtown residents?

If the Cuyahoga Valley Scenic Railroad has its way, there will be rail access from downtown to Steelyard Commons and southward. The CVSR has acquired from New Jersey Transit some 1950s-era Rail Diesel Cars (at least one of which has been refurbished). Their concept is to use these cars for events for smaller groups, as well as for a possible shuttle train service between downtown and the north end of the Cuyahoga Valley National Park. I don't know how often it might run, and I suspect CVSR doesn't yet know for certain either. But I would bet something running hourly is possible. Gotta get the OK from CSX to use their tracks north of Independence -- and that's the tough issue to crack.

Images from this weekend:

 

View from Jennings Freeway (I-176) northbound - new signage at left:

 

Northern section:

 

Looking to the south:

 

 

Glorious...thanks for the shots MayDay!

 

Hey, promising news on the CVSR, KJP!

I would think having direct rail access from W25 & Tower City  to SYC would make it that much more successful.