I just glanced at the letter and noticed one of the lawyers that works with Finney is an OTR resident, oddly enough, as COAST always seems entirely anti-city and anti-OTR especially. 

I just glanced at the letter and noticed one of the lawyers that works with Finney is an OTR resident, oddly enough, as COAST always seems entirely anti-city and anti-OTR especially. 

Another one is president of the Northside Business Association

Meanwhile, PG is really slumming now with his just-announced show on the Buzz.

Blue Line, if you think we are mistaken about Sittenfeld, why don't you explain to us what we should be liking?

 

The pocket veto vote, for one.

 

No issues should be relegated to a dusty shelf. It doesn't matter if you don't agree with those issues. It's not democracy if you can choose WHAT is addressed, but HOW to address it.

Funny that whenever some of you hear an opinion that differs from your own,  it is assumed to be anti OTR!

Funny that whenever some of you hear an opinion that differs from your own,  it is assumed to be anti OTR!

 

COAST went off the deep end long ago.  They aren't anti-tax and anti-spending, they're anti-spending on very specific items - ones that benefit the dense, urban areas of the city.  COAST stopped being just a differing opinion long ago, and now just seems like a real life troll to me.

 

I'm on the fence about the particular issue at hand here (the change to council rules), but that's another debate.

Congressman Sittenfeld?

http://www.citybeat.com/cincinnati/blog-2749-whoops__not_quite_so_fast.html

Here we go again. Every politician makes mistakes, but this wasn't even his mistake. I'm sure many of you will run with it anyway though.

^ so now posting a link to a news article makes you get all upset about people's opinions of PG?

 

Of course it's just a mistake- a funny one that does no harm to anyone, provides a nice laugh, but it's also a bit strange and worth talking about- I've used Constant Contact for various jobs for about 5 years straight.  There is no "auto title" where you can click on something and have Constant Contact name your email "Office of Congressman ________".  You type it in by hand- there is no person at a Constant Contact Office who is changing things on your email and accidentally mis-titling it. You click SEND and it SENDS.    Constant Contact doesn't have "Office of Governor _____ or "Office of Senator ______" tabs for them to mess up.  It's just text that you type directly into the email. 

 

If Roxanne Qualls or anyone else made a similar mistake it would be fair game for a little light hearted fun/questionining

As long as it's not signed by President Boehner, it's all good.

Well, sure. As long as it's lighthearted fun, there's no problem at all. I just see stabs at politicians made daily--ones I like and ones I don't like--and they're relentless, regardless of what they've done or what they've said.

Apropos of nothing, except trivia....Louisville connections to Cincy politics:

 

City manager Doheney was deputy mayor of Louisville.

 

Chris Seelbach is a Louisville native, attened St X highschool before going on to that other X, Xaivier U

^ so now posting a link to a news article makes you get all upset about people's opinions of PG?

 

Of course it's just a mistake- a funny one that does no harm to anyone, provides a nice laugh, but it's also a bit strange and worth talking about- I've used Constant Contact for various jobs for about 5 years straight.  There is no "auto title" where you can click on something and have Constant Contact name your email "Office of Congressman ________".  You type it in by hand- there is no person at a Constant Contact Office who is changing things on your email and accidentally mis-titling it. You click SEND and it SENDS.    Constant Contact doesn't have "Office of Governor _____ or "Office of Senator ______" tabs for them to mess up.  It's just text that you type directly into the email. 

 

If Roxanne Qualls or anyone else made a similar mistake it would be fair game for a little light hearted fun/questionining

 

P.G.'s stance on the Streetcar is stupid and craven, but CityBeat calling attention to this is clearly meant to be derisive.  Let's say it was done on purpose; what information does the public gain by knowing that Sittenfeld aspires to be a Congressman?  Could we not already infer that someone who raises over $300,000 to become a City Councilor at 27 without any sort of theory to his candidacy (what I got from him was, "I passed up better opportunities at Google and in the private sector to come back home.  Vote for me because I love the City!") is ambitious for higher office?  This story is just as worthless as any Enquirer story because it doesn't give the reader any new information that he can do anything with.  The gist of the story is: Sittenfeld is ambitious.  Wow, great job breaking that one wide open.

 

And the title of the story, as well as the line, "Thanks partially to a series of TV commercials that appeared to air nearly nonstop this fall" are pretty clear indicators that the only joke the author wants us to laugh at is P.G.

 

It's a very petty and shows clearly why CityBeat is just as much a piece of trash as the Enquirer.  They could have written an interesting story on an actual issue, such as P.G.'s difference with the mayor on the City Hall atrium project (which Seelbach also voted against) but instead they decided to talk about how silly and self-absorbed politicians are, and consequently aren't we all so much better than these snake oil salesmen?

Resident Files Complaint Against Smitherman

"A resident has filed a complaint with the City Law Department, alleging that Christopher Smitherman’s dual role as a Cincinnati city councilman and president of the NAACP’s local chapter constitutes an abuse of corporate powers"

 

http://www.citybeat.com/cincinnati/blog-2811-resident_files_complaint_against_smitherman.html

Dan Monk's take:

 

Streetcar supporter questions Smitherman's ethics

 

For the second time in two months, Cincinnati’s streetcar project has inspired a request for legal action from Cincinnati Solicitor John Curp.

 

Last month, we told you about the founder of the anti-tax group, COAST, requesting a lawsuit to stop the streetcar to prevent the infringement Hamilton County property rights.

 

Now, local attorney Casey Coston has asked Curp to seek an Ohio Ethics Commission advisory opinion on whether Christopher Smitherman is violating state ethics rules by holding dual roles as a member of city council and president of the Cincinnati NAACP.

 

Because it is a 501 ©(4) corporation, the local chapter “can participate in political campaigns and elections,” Coston’s attorney, Tom Hodges, argued in a Jan. 19 letter that was emailed to Curp and the Business Courier. That “raises serious concerns of irreconcilable and impermissible conflicts of interest” that “would represent an abuse of the corporate powers” if the city left unchecked.

 

Cont

 

 

Crossposting to the Cincinnati Streetcar News thread

oh, for the love of God, is EVERYTHING political in Cincinnati automatically tied to the goddamned streetcar?

oh wait, there's race.....

Yeah, I really don't like them tying this to the streetcar when Casey explicitly said that this is not about the streetcar.

What's most egregious is defining Casey as "streetcar supporter" in the title. Not an attorney, not a city resident, not a local journalist, but "streetcar supporter".

 

Frankly, I expect better from the Courier. I am disappointed. I was actually considering getting a subscription with them using the Urban Cincy discount, but this type of trash is exactly what made me give up on the Enquirer.

Every blog and publication has an agenda or twist. It's still a great read.

What's most egregious is defining Casey as "streetcar supporter" in the title. Not an attorney, not a city resident, not a local journalist, but "streetcar supporter".

 

Frankly, I expect better from the Courier. I am disappointed. I was actually considering getting a subscription with them using the Urban Cincy discount, but this type of trash is exactly what made me give up on the Enquirer.

 

The courier news feeds appear on 700wlw everyday.  I believe they have some sort of partnership.  Dan Monk was just on Cunningham's show this week talking about council and 'streetcar costs'.

 

Its safe to say there is a narrative

Dan wrote that at first without even talking to me.  He did speak with Smitherman, who told him it was "about the streetcar." When we spoke, I indicated it was not.  He asked me why I included the video of Smitherman going apoplectic at City Council last May (which was a streetcar hearing that went badly for him).  I said I included that because it demonstrated his fiery, literally over-the-top advocacy (purportedly) on behalf of the NAACP in front of Council. 

 

Given that, I had a hard time seeing how he could reconcile his two roles--one as crazy, out of control lobbyist and the other as sitting councilmember.

 

Dan made some subsequent revisions after we spoke.  I made it clear to him that I am in no way affiliated with the streetcar, but I do support it, as do the citizens of Cincinnati as evidenced by the two most recent elections.

 

I don't have a problem with the piece. The Courier wanted to call me a "local blogger." I told him that I do not have a blog. He corrected that.

Dan wrote that at first without even talking to me.  He did speak with Smitherman, who told him it was "about the streetcar."

 

The Courier wanted to call me a "local blogger." I told him that I do not have a blog. He corrected that

 

And there's the problem right there.  Lazy journalism.  Pieces are being written and published without speaking to the subjects and without checking assumptions to be certain that they are factual.  Weak.

Dan wrote that at first without even talking to me.  He did speak with Smitherman, who told him it was "about the streetcar."

 

The Courier wanted to call me a "local blogger." I told him that I do not have a blog. He corrected that

 

And there's the problem right there.  Lazy journalism.  Pieces are being written and published without speaking to the subjects and without checking assumptions to be certain that they are factual.  Weak.

 

I wouldn't call it lazy since Dan immediately called up Smitherman and investigated the claim...I'd call it biased

The courier news feeds appear on 700wlw everyday.  I believe they have some sort of partnership.  Dan Monk was just on Cunningham's show this week talking about council and 'streetcar costs'.

 

Its safe to say there is a narrative

I'm not sure what direction they've taken recently, but their former editor Doug Bolton often wrote great positive pieces that you would never see in the Enquirer. They also have an agreement with UrbanCincy where they sometimes publish our longer, more-researched articles online and in print. I can't really give you any more details than that; I don't handle any of the business side of UrbanCincy.

The Fishwrap weighs in on the complaint.

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/AB/20120120/NEWS0108/301200126/Letter-Smitherman-has-conflict

City wasting money it doesn’t have

01/11/12 at 11:47am

 

Why are we rushing to build an atrium over a courtyard at City Hall? You would think that the city is awash in money. This is simply the latest monument to Mayor Mallory and his administration. I applaud Christopher Smitherman, who I have historically opposed, and his efforts to have a meeting on a number of foolish and extraordinarily costly plans that the city is looking at. The pension fund is at a huge deficit and the infrastructure is failing yet we are spending money on an atrium, a streetcar that will always and forever run in deeply in the red, and multilingual street signs. What fools. Would an adult please step up and join Smitherman?

 

It is sad that this council has spent every dime that the casino will bring to our town.

 

Allen Williams

 

West Chester

 

 

So what part of that letter do you disagree with? Seriously, where do you think all that money is coming from? Do you just have a problem with the fact he doesn't live in the city?

 

He probably works in the city and pays income tax. I love the argument that these taxes only pay for the employees use of city facilities. The city is getting a very large benefit from that person working in the city and patronizing city businesses.

>So what part of that letter do you disagree with?

 

All of it, especially the part in red. 

 

 

>Seriously, where do you think all that money is coming from?

 

Not all of a city's revenue is drawn from taxes.  Some of it is from lease payments, such as the city's lease of the Southern Railroad to Norfolk-Southern, which generates almost $20 million annually.  So like a mini version of that railroad, which the city built with municipal bonds back in the 1870s, the city will use revenue from the rental of the atrium space to repay it's construction, then pocket the rest. 

 

>Do you just have a problem with the fact he doesn't live in the city?

 

The problem is that someone who doesn't even live in the same county, who has a folksy notion of municipal workings based on talk radio and water cooler talk, is given an audience of 100,000 while letters I write are tossed. 

 

 

>He probably works in the city and pays income tax.

 

He probably swindled his siblings out of the will and used their money to buy his house in West Chester.

 

 

>I love the argument that these taxes only pay for the employees use of city facilities. The city is getting a very large benefit from that person working in the city and patronizing city businesses.

 

Get a freaking clue.  Cities have to charge income tax because they are mandated by state and federal laws to provide various services that simply cannot be funded through property taxes alone, because state law caps municipal property tax rates, and because many high profile properties do not pay property tax.  The appearance of municipal earnings taxes proliferated after WWII with the growth of non-profits who do not pay property tax.  Not just churches, but also hospitals, universities, etc., which in Cincinnati's case employ upwards of 100,000 people.  There are also situations where non-profits own valuable land and are not taxed for their revenue-generating activities.  For example, St. Xavier High School is no longer located in the city, but generates $300,000 annually from the parking lot where the school used to be located downtown.  They do not pay property tax on that parking lot, which is worth several million dollars.   

 

THEN, there is the whole matter of incorporated areas paying for infrastructure in unincorporated areas like the nebulous West Chester, but I've already blown your mind so that'll have to wait for next time. 

 

Jake, I have a freaking clue. What is the foolish comments about the guys will? You really affect your own credibility. Be proud of how hard you've worked to get where you are and get over the fact that other people have money and you don't.

Moderator Note

 

Put a lid on it, Dan. Jake has every right to attack the things you write, as long as he doesn't attack you personally. Speculating about Jake's income, however, is a personal attack and will not be tolerated. End of story.

  For example, St. Xavier High School is no longer located in the city, but generates $300,000 annually from the parking lot where the school used to be located downtown.  They do not pay property tax on that parking lot, which is worth several million dollars.   

 

I've been giving some thought to the city vs. suburb debate, and Jake, I think you are on to something. I'm beginning to think that what the City of Cincinnati really needs is not more infrastructure like streetcars, not more attractions like stadiums, convention centers, or The Banks, and certainly not more social programs, but real tax and election reform. If the core problems can be solved, the other problems will solve themselves.

  For example, St. Xavier High School is no longer located in the city, but generates $300,000 annually from the parking lot where the school used to be located downtown.  They do not pay property tax on that parking lot, which is worth several million dollars.   

 

I've been giving some thought to the city vs. suburb debate, and Jake, I think you are on to something. I'm beginning to think that what the City of Cincinnati really needs is not more infrastructure like streetcars, not more attractions like stadiums, convention centers, or The Banks, and certainly not more social programs, but real tax and election reform. If the core problems can be solved, the other problems will solve themselves.

 

And real tax and election reform would have to occur at the state level... so Cincinnati's hands are sort of tied in that regard. So in the meantime, they must work within the constraints they have and do what they can to generate revenue AND value for its residents (and potential future residents to move in to the city).

^Not to mention the federal level. Just the federal war on drugs adds millions to the city (& county & state) budget.

Ya-- What does that comment even mean?????

 

What is real "tax & election" reform mean with regards to Cincinnati...

 

The 2.1% earnings tax?

The small property tax people pay to the City?

 

The way City Council is elected every two years and the mayor is elected every four?

 

 

You realize EVERY major city in america has Convention Centers, Stadiums, attractions & infrastructure. 

 

Don't throw every concept of what a City has to offer out the window and say- just replace all that with tax & election reform and every things great without explaining what you mean. 

 

Cuz if you do mean State or Federal reform, are you saying Cincinnati should just sit on its hands, ignore EVERYTHING and wait for someone else to reform taxes??

The core problem is that the US Constitution did not anticipate cities, nor did the constitutions of the states.  So unlike all of the countries in the world whose governments are younger than their cities, our cities, from the very beginning, had very little power to affect their course because they control relatively little of the public policy and public money that is spent within their borders.  Case in point: NO american city, with the exception of New York City, had enough of a tax base to build expressways OR subways on a large scale.  In 1956 the federal government was persuaded to fund local transportation in the cities in the form of highways, not subways.  So if a city rejected funds for expressways -- they were lost.  A city was not free to choose what was best for its situation -- it was highways or nothing.   

And that's how it should be. The people have the power, not the government.

No, the wealthy have the power, not the proletariat.  In the United States government is the only way for the people to check big business, but big business has tricked the proletariat into thinking that "government" is the problem. 

The wealthy should have the power. They are the  ones who keep this country moving. Didn't the Soviets try your approach?

 

Without the people, there would be no Obama. In fact there would have been no Clinton, no Strickland, no Sherrod Brown, no Cincinnati city council. In fact there might be no Democratic Party.

 

Now knock it off. All of you.

The police audit is in. Some stuff looks good. Some, I don't know what good it will do. Like renaming the Vortex unit.....

Hiring pros to do IT work, better record keeping & better dissemination of info to officers all sound good.

I didn't see anything that said it really costs $1M to manage overtime or not. The linked article quotes the FOP boss as saying the city council made up that number but it was acting chief Jahnke who delivered the number to the council who thought it had to be less.

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20120123/NEWS/301230074/

The core problem is that the US Constitution did not anticipate cities, nor did the constitutions of the states.  So unlike all of the countries in the world whose governments are younger than their cities, our cities, from the very beginning, had very little power to affect their course because they control relatively little of the public policy and public money that is spent within their borders.

 

This isn't exactly right.  There were several American cities that are older than the federal government.  The big change happened in the late 19th century, when the law in the U.S. changed considerably because of both the U.S. economy became more of a national economy and the federal supremacy had been definitively established post civil war.  Laws of general incorporation, which actually became typical in the 1830s and 1840s also probably had something to do with the changing legal view.  Ultimately though, cities became viewed as wholly creatures of the state government, which really was a remarkable change but sort of went unnoticed because what really was different in those days were those powerful railroad companies and then the trusts.

What is real "tax & election" reform mean with regards to Cincinnati...

 

Jake and others are correct that the City of Cincinnati doesn't control the state or federal government, which have a huge influence on the city.

 

What I had in mind for tax reform is Jake's example of the parking lot owned by a non-profit. I don't know why non-profits are exampt from property taxes, but they are, and the City of Cincinnati is paying for infrastructure and police and fire service to support those properties but not collecting any revenue.

 

Non-profits include government property, such as stadiums, interstate highways, and government buildings. I suppose that it would be silly for a government to pay taxes to itself, but we are talking about different governments. If it was fair, Hamilton County would be paying property taxes on the stadiums to the City of Cincinnati. (They do make some payments by agreement.) ODOT would be paying taxes on the acres and acres of urban land consumed by highways; this might also make them think twice about expanding I-75.

 

To make up for the lack of property taxes, the City of Cincinnati charges an income tax. This has the effect of pushing businesses outside of the city to avoid the tax, and allowing the poor to fill in the gap because the poor don't pay any income tax if they don't have any income. 

 

On election reform, in Ohio people vote where they sleep. Why not vote where they work, or where they own property? At the time of the writing of the Constitution, the founding fathers considered giving the right to vote to property owners only. In the 1992 presidential campaign, Ross Perot suggested that people vote in proportion to the taxes they pay, something like most corporations do. As it stands in Cincinnati, we have political candidates pandering to the poor, because they make up a big voting block, while they contribute little if any to the economy and taxes. We also have big businesses in the city that contribute a lot to the economy and taxes, but don't have any say because the owners live outside of the city. It doesn't make much sense when you think about it.

 

If residents and businesses were flocking to Over-the-Rhine and the city had a healthy budget, we wouldn't need to argue about the streetcar. We could just build it using property tax revenue without begging for money from the state or anyone else.

 

That said, it will be very difficult politically to make any real changes. "If you want to make enemies, try to change something." - Woodrow Wilson

 

 

 

 

Businesses have plenty of influence over city government. Not necessarily through votes, but through campaign funding and simply threatening to leave, as well as access to media. If businesses didn't have a "vote", they would not be offered so much money in incentives all the time by elected officials!

 

Employees of city companies who do not live in the city, likewise, are represented by their employers. It is, after all, through their role as employees that they have formal ties to the city.

Eighth & state, you need to do some research before you speak. Property taxes bring in 8% of the City's revenue.

 

8%.

 

Income tax is about 80%. Even if all the governments & highways paid property taxes you MIGHT get to 13%. 

Businesses have plenty of influence over city government. Not necessarily through votes, but through campaign funding and simply threatening to leave, as well as access to media. If businesses didn't have a "vote", they would not be offered so much money in incentives all the time by elected officials!

 

Employees of city companies who do not live in the city, likewise, are represented by their employers. It is, after all, through their role as employees that they have formal ties to the city.

 

Exactly. When was the last time a group of 500 poor people got a $50 million incentive package to stay in the City.

 

To say our city's major companies have no influence is absurd.

I don't think there's any proof that Cincinnati's earnings tax pushes business out of the city, especially since nearly all other cities in the metro area also have earnings taxes.  Cincinnati's is 2.1% and Blue Ash's is 1.25%, for example.  All things being equal, then yes a business would choose the lower tax municipality, but Blue Ash versus Cincinnati are two completely different situations.   

I wonder who the two council members are!?

 

Council duo feeling dissed

Democratic majority likened to bullies

 

Written by

Jane Prendergast

 

he clash between Democrats with all the power at Cincinnati City Hall and two fiery, hyperbolic councilmen who have none, went down like this Wednesday:

 

The majority passed a new rule that means committee chairs have to agree before any new item can be discussed in their committee.

 

Charlie Winburn, council’s lone Republican, and Christopher Smitherman, who won without a party endorsement, missed the council meeting because of “scheduling conflicts.” Winburn, a pastor, said something came up at his church. Smitherman couldn’t be reached about why he couldn’t come. Without them, P.G. Sittenfeld cast the only no vote on the extra committee chair power.

Apparently Smitherman sent out an email lying about the incident.  This morning Sittenfeld was on 550 to refute Smitheman's claims.  The host was like "...so Smitherman lied?" yeah Brian because Smitherman always lies!

Winburn, Smitherman and Sittenfeld were the only three city council members not present at today's streetcar groundbreaking.

Believe it or not they were having a special meeting on potholes during the streetcar groundbreaking!