Dick Feagler would likely have to move to Sandusky.

 

I'll support any plan that will get Dick to move away.

"homeless are living in the Quadrangle"

 

hmm.

(this response is about actual homeless and NOT panhandlers)Ok. that said,

I completely agree with 8shades about the need for centralized homeless services, and supported this argument in the offender release programs thread. as much as there is an urge to stick it to strongsville (believe me, I sympathize), we need services that are easy to access if they are to be effective.  However, everyone should be funding them. The homeless are from all over the region. And for you conservatives out there, the "just get a job" folks, I am sure you know reliable stats indicate 1/4 of homeless are vets. So why we geeks sit here on a  forum sanctimoniously accusing people of trying to get a free handout and tell them where to take a sh!t (no where it seems), their future brethren are are out there fighting for our "freedom" as your leader likes to call it. The majority of the rest of them are mentally ill and/or  addicted without supports. I guarantee everyone on this board has been touched by a mental illness  or addiction in some way whether it be self, family,ect and hopefully the person involved had some kind of support system or safety net to get them through it. When you don't, this is what you see.

"One stop" is the way to go. I happen to agree these do not need to be concentrated in a residential area nor public square, but they sure is heck need to be easily accessable on foot or by bus.  It funny with countries that have better safety nets ,you just don't see this, and everyone benefits. I love the rat story. I am not denying that people have seen rats on Public Square  (or that it is filthy-Browns fans piss out there too), but if they have had meal programs for "10 years" why is an issue now?

Speaking of which I see rats all over manhatten, a very popular area btw ,  and they have appreared to reduce the homeless, so explain that.

 

Something tells me that if Chagrin Falls allowed the soup truck to park on their square every night, homeless would eventually be camping in their gazebo.

 

But they would never allow it.

 

So why should we?

 

All I'm saying is this issue needs addressed regionally (there's that word again), not locally. And by regionally, I do not mean everyone in he region agrees to send their homeless downtown.

 

And by the way... I was homeless for almost a year while living in Vegas. Guess what. I got a job.

 

So how do we know they are not experiencing the one year (one week, one month), before the job? I was not handed life on a silver platter either -$0 loans, $0 grants , $0 parental assistance, and worked my way through an advanced degree. But not everyone can do this.  I know we like to think we are special but it is unknown if our gifts will ever be marketable. While there are some very good and sound strengths to the argument that each community should be supporting their own homeless -such as living in a community they are familiar with and can navigate geographically and culturally, most communities in the suburbs have lower ratios of homeless and thus less ability to provide comprehensive supports (mental health, vocational rehabilitation, substance abuse, etc) . Many of us are professionals and know we could not be self sufficient in the suburbs w/o a car, so how can you expect a homeless person at a low wage job to get around in Berea? Some homeless people are working, but just don't have the skills or opportunity to get more work.  The city is a better place for the fully functioning, so it stands to reason it meets the needs for others as well.

I am not condoning merely a meal and a cot, but services that move people off the street. Its win win for all

Why don't these groups who provide the hot meals want to coordinate their efforts?  Wouldn't it make more sense to provide meals near places like 2100 Lakeside, the Cosgrove Center, Salvation Army Harbor Lights, and Care Alliance rather than on some random street corner of Public Square?  Is there no unused city property that could function as a dining hall of sorts?  At least at these locations, there's a restroom and a trash can to use.  How sanitary are these roach coach soup wagon operations anyway?  I'd bet some are candidates for the Dirty Dining award...someone call Action News.

The answer to your question is very simple:  They wouldn't be allowed to preach their word and convert.  These groups for a long time worked with Cosgrove to provide meals indoors but in order to get food you had to listen to the word, and become a born-again.  Cosgrove didn't like this, and it stopped. 

 

The reason it's come up now as opposed for "10 years" is that there are a lot more groups doing it now.  It used to be on Thanksgiving and Christmas, then it became every other day of the week, then 6 days a week in the middle of the lunch hour.  Trust me, my window over looks it.

 

That being said, I completely agree about the 24 hour drop in center again.  In fact, I think if the center opened up you would take care of the issues at Public Square by itself because these groups are feeding at times between when other feeding sites close and the shelter opens.  But that's just my opinion.

thanks for pointing out the whole other agenda and player in this-the religious people making the homeless be "saved" in return for a stale sandwich.  I am not disagreeing that meal sites should be in places where there is sanitation (prep, clean up, and restrooms)

The current Homeless Grapevine has a good article on this.  The level of reporting and depth they go into puts the PD article to shame.  This didn't just happen overnight, there had been discussion about moving the feeding operations into a single indoor location for some time.  It looks like the discussion broke down, and the feeding operations were moved to Davenport and 18th for awhile after the rat infestation was found. That wasn't a very workable location as far as the agencies or recipients were concerned so the location was moved again to Mall B.  The article made it sound like strongarm negotiating, which it may be.

Look to my previous posts for my opinion on this.

 

 

 

Letter to the editor: Cleveland and its merchants push the poor aside

Tuesday, December 11, 2007

 

The Dec. 3 article, "Food for poor moved from Public Square," discusses the downtown food distribution programs forced to move by our city government. However, this article fails to recognize the city of Cleveland's true campaign, which is to hide the poor and criminalize homelessness. The city, with the help of the Downtown Cleveland Alliance, has used three strategies toward this end: the Public Square curfew, the anti-panhandling program and the removal of food distributions. These strategies seek to move the homeless from downtown - where they can be seen by business owners and shoppers - to areas that are invisible - under bridges and in city jails.

 

Let us not be tricked by the article and believe the city is moving the food program to give the poor and marginalized more dignity. If the city were interested in giving dignity, it would provide housing - not shelters - with supportive services.

 

The food distributors are being moved to sanitize poverty and remove it from the minds of middle-class consumers and shop owners.

Advertisement

 

Chris Knestrick

 

Cleveland

 

Knestrick is a member of the Cleveland Catholic Worker Community.

How about actively moving people to shelters, where they can receive the assistance that they need?  No one is trying to push the homeless "under bridges and to jails."  Quite a stretch of the argument.  Society should have a right, though, to require people to seek treatment for substance problems when society also feeds them.

 

It might seem callous to say, but why should everyone's Public Square be the personal buffet line for so few?  Mayor Jackson isn't ending the free meal programs that churches and other organizations have been doing.  Rather, he just wants it moved.  I don't see how this is unreasonable.  There are taxpayer supported shelters, along with other non-profit services designed to help those in need.  It doesn't make it socially acceptable for those that simply refuse to go to a shelter to remain in common areas belonging to everyone and make it their own private dwelling and/or bathroom.

 

Those members of the Catholic Worker Community are always welcome to open up their own homes to people.  That may give those affected the "dignity" that the author misguidedly believes the "City" has a responsibility to provide.

The homeless are from all over the region. And for you conservatives out there, the "just get a job" folks, I am sure you know reliable stats indicate 1/4 of homeless are vets. So why we geeks sit here on a  forum sanctimoniously accusing people of trying to get a free handout and tell them where to take a sh!t (no where it seems), their future brethren are are out there fighting for our "freedom" as your leader likes to call it.

 

And you liberals just like to give away other people's money!  Yes, the homeless are from all over the region, and not all conservative are "just get a job" folks, (although, not a bad idea!)  Its funny, reading this thread, how everyone acts as if the suburbanites pay nothing towards the homeless problem.  Now, I don't know for sure, and someone will surely correct me, but do not property taxes pay something towards county services?  And is Cleveland not the County seat?

 

A theoretical example.  2 people with identical jobs, identical pay, both pay Cleveland payroll tax.  One rents an apartment downtown, one owns his own home in Strongsville.  Who actually contributes more towards the homeless?

^The renter in Cleveland clearly pays more, but you're right that the county homeowner still pays something by virtue of county sales tax and the income tax paid to the city.  Note, however, that the city income tax makes up only 55% of the city's revenue and that the homeowner will be able to deduct her mortgage interest payments from taxable income, so she's paying significantly less federal, state (12% of the city's revenue comes from the state) and city income tax. 

A theoretical example.  2 people with identical jobs, identical pay, both pay Cleveland payroll tax.  One rents an apartment downtown, one owns his own home in Strongsville.  Who actually contributes more towards the homeless?

 

I suppose it would depend on the value of the house and the amount of pay. While both pay payroll taxes, part of the Strongsville resident's taxes go to Cleveland and part to Strongsville (and the respective services that each city offers for the homeless, while the Cleveland resident's payroll tax goes exclusively to the city of Cleveland. Assuming both are paying the 2% rate on payroll tax, the Strongsville person is paying more toward homeless services if a larger portion of Strongsville's payroll tax receipts go toward supporting homeless services than do Cleveland's payroll tax receipts) OR if the amount of their property taxes that go toward supporting county-level homeless services plus the amount of payroll taxes going to Strongsville and Cleveland homeless services exceeds the other individual's Cleveland payroll taxes going to homeless services. It's a difficult question to answer unless we know the expenses of Strongsville's, Cleveland's and Cuyahoga County's services to homeless individuals, as well as the percentage of respective agencies' budgets that are supported by payroll taxes or property taxes, compared to other forms of revenues (if, for instance, the city of Cleveland is able to draw substantial federal dollars that reduce the need to allocate taxpayer dollars toward homeless services and Strongsville relies almost exclusively on taxpayer dollars).

 

We also shouldn't discount that the Strongsville individual may be more likely to make purchases outside of Cuyahoga County and avoiding the portion of sales tax that goes back to Cuyahoga County's general fund. Or that the Cleveland taxpayer indirectly pays property taxes by portions of their rent offsetting landlord's property taxes (landlords generally factor levels of property tax into their rents; if property taxes increase for the landlord, they may be inclined to offset this with higher rents, meaning that the renter is in fact paying property tax as well).

 

Moreover, while the Strongsville resident MAY be paying more toward homeless services, their locational decision to live far away from the city proper also may contribute to the prevalence of homelessness ... with sprawl contributing to a faltering central economy and concentrations of impoverishment that make homelessness more likely than in mixed income communities. They are just a single person, but their decision still may play some role in increasing the likelihood of homeless problems in the central city, so no matter how minimal their contribution to this burden might be, we should still consider it. The Strongsville also escape the psychological and economic burdens of living in close proximity to large populations of the homeless, such as lower property values, etc., meaning that the Cleveland resident is left paying higher ancillary costs outside of their tax contribution. 

 

I understand your point, and you may very well be right ... just wanted to note that this issue is hardly as simple as who contributes more tax revenue to Cleveland and Cuyahoga County.

 

 

And by the way... I was homeless for almost a year while living in Vegas. Guess what. I got a job.

 

For me, this is all it boils down to.  That's great that I get the label of "Conservative, just get a job" person.  I won't apologize for wanting people to be responsible and to be accountable for their decisions in life. 

 

I'm more than  happy to help, but I'd rather use my spare time and effort for contributing to society (outside of being a responsible person myself) by having a positive influence on my family and friends rather than a homeless person who may or may not take to any help I give him/her.

 

And yes, of course I have had addiction/mental health directly affect my life.  What's the 1st rule of rehab?  You have to want help first.  Some of these people are just going to continue to be homeless.  Those that will turn it around will find their way out on there own - the programs exist in the city that will help you if you want to find them.  Help is out there; I'm not going to beg you to take it.

^very well said  :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

the services have to be accessable and available for those that want it to get help. We as a nation in general, not just Clev, have issues in both of those areas. Many people still fall through the cracks (and yes I 100% agree some people don't care to even try to get  help).  However,I am not one to make that judgement or assessment  as I walk by them on the street . Thats all I am saying.

Those members of the Catholic Worker Community are always welcome to open up their own homes to people.  That may give those affected the "dignity" that the author misguidedly believes the "City" has a responsibility to provide.

 

Actually, they do- at least they welcome folks who are homeless at their community's Whitman House.  Also, they regularly open the Storefront on Lorain near Randall several days a week for meals and shelter.  They aren't just providing lip service.

Wasn't sure where to put this, but it seemed appropriate for this thread, as the issues of gay/lesbian/bisexual/transgender youth are often overlooked in homeless policy, not just in Cleveland but most places.

 

Documentary 'While We Sleep' shows plight of local gay teens

Friday, April 04, 2008

Rachel Dissell

Plain Dealer Reporter

 

Akeem Rollins was 14 when he found himself couch surfing through Cleveland.

 

"I was kicked out because I told my mom I was gay," Rollins said.

 

It was the first, but not the only time Rollins found himself homeless after his sexual preference caused trouble at home ...

 

... For more information, please visit http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/1207297935260790.xml&coll=2

This kinda sucks....read this guys blog:

 

http://thepastime.net/2008/06/25/in-cleveland-for-sabr-38/

 

I still feel like we're not doing enough

This kinda sucks....read this guys blog:

 

http://thepastime.net/2008/06/25/in-cleveland-for-sabr-38/

 

I still feel like we're not doing enough

I'm pretty sure he didn't tell an ambassador or someone at the hotel about those people, yet complained about them in his blog.

 

Sounds like this dude doesn't get out much.

 

He lost all credibility when he said

The Renaissance is behind the times. I just walked down to a Caribou Coffee in the Tower City mall, about 50 steps away from the hotel lobby, and logged on to their free wireless. That’s more like it.

 

If he doesn't realize that top brands of chains all charge for wifi, then he is behind the Times and his credibility is shot.  All FULL SERVICE brands at Hilton, Marriott, Starwood, Hyatt and InterContinental charge $9-15 dollars for in room wifi.

 

Someone needs to do their homework before posting on their blog.

 

If he doesn't realize that top brands of chains all charge for wifi, then he is behind the Times and his credibility is shot.  All FULL SERVICE brands at Hilton, Marriott, Starwood, Hyatt and InterContinental charge $9-15 dollars for in room wifi.

 

 

MTS, why do you think that is, when their lower tier, Fairfield, Courtyard, etc have free wifi?

Folks, is this a thread about wifi at hotel chains?

 

public square though really is a nightmare when it comes to homeless... they are everywhere.  I don't know what you do about it either without violating their legitimate rights... but we need to figure something out.

And by the way... I was homeless for almost a year while living in Vegas. Guess what. I got a job.

 

For me, this is all it boils down to. That's great that I get the label of "Conservative, just get a job" person. I won't apologize for wanting people to be responsible and to be accountable for their decisions in life.

 

I'm more than happy to help, but I'd rather use my spare time and effort for contributing to society (outside of being a responsible person myself) by having a positive influence on my family and friends rather than a homeless person who may or may not take to any help I give him/her.

 

And yes, of course I have had addiction/mental health directly affect my life. What's the 1st rule of rehab? You have to want help first. Some of these people are just going to continue to be homeless. Those that will turn it around will find their way out on there own - the programs exist in the city that will help you if you want to find them. Help is out there; I'm not going to beg you to take it.

 

Excuse me everyone, but I have just tuned in and wow! I don't know where to begin! I have written a book called "Stop Hittin' Me Wit' Dat Bat!" I'm trying to get it published. It is my story. I have been both fortunate and unfortunate enough to view these this issue from several viewpoints. Not just 1 or even 2.

 

We must remember that every single person on this planet has their own story. Many are similar and many are unimaginable. We are all human. Any one of us could have made a left instead of a right or said yes instead of no or had our SSN randomly pulled or been at the wrong place at the wrong time or stood up a second too early, etc., and we would be homeless, today. Or we could be in jail today or crippled today, etc. It is, in my opinion, by the grace of God that we are where we are today. Or if you prefer; it is by pure luck. Sure we made some wise decisions, but the fact that we were in a position to make these decisions is a miracle.

 

Before I get into a long philisophical lecture, I will leave you guys with a recent articl I have written concerning Free Will. The question is: Does everyone have the freedom to choose who they are and what they do and how they turn out?

 

________________________________________________________________________________

 

by D-Source

Here is a story of a child who was born to uneducated and ignorant parents who happened to be drug addicts. The child didn't know why he didn't feel good but he didn't. The child had no choice but to cry, out of instinct. His mother chose not to feed him because she needed money for drugs. This child was abused, sexually assaulted, neglected and suffered unimaginable mental stress and abuse as he grew up. His parents introduced him to drugs at a very young age and he has been an addict ever since. The institutions he was forced to endure as a child introduced him to more criminal minded young thugs and the staff at these institutions treated them all like garbage. When he was 18 years old he robbed a grocery store. The judge asked him why and the young man's reply was that he had no choice. The judge told him that everyone has Free Will and Freedom of Choice. The young man said "Not me." The judge asked why? This young man was nervous in front of the judge and all of those people. This young Jr. High School drop out who was in withdrawal from his Heroin Addiction began to stutter as he did his best, in horrible English. He rambled and tried to explain an 18 year story in the 5 seconds the judge gave him before interrupting the young man. The judge said "Just as I thought." He gave him the maximum sentence.

 

Did this young man have Free Will? If he could articulate, he would say that as a baby, he had no Free Will. He had to submit to the will of his parents and his environment. He would say that he didn't choose his parents and he didn't ask for the needle to be stuck in him by his mother's boy friend. He didn't ask for it the first time nor the second or third. He would say that he needed the drugs to live and he needed money to buy the drugs. He would tell you that there are no free drug programs in his town and that no one wants to be his friend. Employment was not a choice because of his record, his appearance, his lack of a diploma and skills. He doesn't even have an address to put on an employment application. He doesn't even have the ability to work a shift without drugs. He definitely can't work on drugs.

 

In my opinion, by the time this child was old enough to exercise his Free Will, his choices had become limited. They were limited by his lack of education, his ignorance, his vocabulary and poor English, not to mention his addiction. Drug addicts tend to loose there Freedom of Choice. Any doctor will tell you that a Heroin Addict of many years

must have the drugs or face the possibility of death. Most of us are not capable of choosing death over anything. For Heroin Drug Addicts, that leaves one option: Get the drugs by any means necessary. It is a matter of life or death.

 

For those of us who were properly raised and who are drug free, this is hard to comprehend and the concept of being in a situation where there are absolutely no choices available is disturbing, to say the least. For many people, the obvious choice would be to turn to God. For those who don't believe in God or a higher power, this option is not available either. For the believers: The Christian God says "He is The Truth, The Way and The Light", if you have faith. The question is how can this young man have faith in a God he knows nothing about? Is it possible that The Devil can take you to a place so dark that it is impossible for you to ever see the light. If you are sheltered from God by godless parents and your environment, will God seek out to find you? I will leave you to answer these questions for yourselves. I would be happy to address these questions at another time. For those who are wondering. Yes, I do believe. I am a Christian. For those who don't believe and need one logical reason; I will offer two:

 

1. Because God offers hope. When there are no other options available, he is always there. Without hope, there is very little incentive to try. I know that as long as I keep trying, God will make it OK. So I never give up. When I experience tragedy I turn to him and I see hope.

 

2. Just in case. The moral values and teachings of my God are great principles to live by. It does me and no one else any harm for me to believe. In fact, I believe that following his teachings have had a positive impact in my life. What a shame it would be to wake up out of my coffin one day to find out that there really was a God and I am doomed to burn for eternity. Eternity is a long time to burn. That would suck!

 

Did this man have Freedom of Choice? Answer that for yourselves, as well. I know what I believe. What do you believe? Get drugs or die. Is that a choice? Turn to a God he was raised to not believe in, knows nothing about and can't see, feel or touch. He definitely doesn't feel loved by God. My humble definition of Free Will is: The right and ability to make your own choices. If you have no choices, do you still have Free Will. Are there always choices? If I have less choices available does that mean I have less Free Will or does it mean that I just have less choices to exercise my Free Will with? More questions for you to answer for yourselves. I have my own answers but these are topics for other articles.

 

What answers to I have on this topic? America is a society of people who have a history of throwing rocks to try to stop a Freight Train. There are some huge problems that we do little about in this country. There are many, many tragic lives and situations in this country and we are quick to blame the person involved in these tragedies by saying "You had a choice" or "You have Free Will". We, who were lucky or blessed enough to be born to good parents and went to good schools and who ate well, find it hard to comprehend the young man saying he had no choice. Freedom of Choice in America is a social problem more than it is an individual problem. Why are drugs on our streets? Why is there so much poverty? Why were the institutions, that this child was forced to live in, so ineffective? Why wasn't this child's abuse reported by anyone? Why was the child returned to these parents? Why was he allowed to just drop out of school? Why are there no free treatment programs in his town? It would cost tax payers less to offer that option than the crimes he is doomed to commit will cost, not to mention the cost of caring for him in prison. It would also cost less than the war in Iraq! When tragedy strikes, we as Americans, must insure that Free Will is available for every man, woman and child. There is no Free Will on drugs and none for a child in a house with drugs and none in the court and prison system where he will end up. We, as Americans, do have The Free Will to choose to address these tragedies. Let's use our Free Will and Freedom of Choice to end some of the tragic conditions that lead to other tragic circumstances. Lets make some wiser choices on what we spend billions of dollars on. Lets exercise our choice to get involved!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

^^ I think the City should remove the benches in the Northern quadrants of Public Square, they seem to attract the homeless. Obviously homeless people would still be on the Square but at least it cuts down on the homeless kind of camping out there.

^^ I think the City should remove the benches in the Northern quadrants of Public Square, they seem to attract the homeless. Obviously homeless people would still be on the Square but at least it cuts down on the homeless kind of camping out there.

 

And exactly how does that solve the real problem?

 

It will only make public square - prime green space - unusable.  Then critics will complain, and the cycle of misconceptions continues.

 

Attack the problem.  Police presence and homeless outreach.  Educate folks not to feed/give money and how & who to report a homeless sighting too.

Many cities have installed park benches that won't allow people to lay across them (i.e. third rail in the middle). Its not a solution to the problem, but it discourages it.

The homeless problem is not going to be solved by throwing more money at the problem, nor is it going to be solved by kicking them out/forcing them to get jobs. As it has been said every story is different, and every solution is different.

I think the green space should be everyones. and I DO NOT think it should be a bathroom. All that said, I go to to city Green spaces a lot when traveling and see everyone using the space. It is not like eew ick there is homeless person in my range of vision, I can't sit on the bench. Last fall in  Boston I took a break from sightseeing and lay out on some grass to read a book. looking around I saw college students , office workers, and homeless people out on the same grass with in a few feet of each other.  I would go sit on the bench on public square if I wanted to. It is for all of us.  The city needs to crack down on litterers, drunkards, and people using it as a toilet,  not people for just being homeless. If a more diverse range of people used public square it would not look the way it does.

Peabody adds another great point!

I only get a few out of a 1000, so thankks

Removing benches and police crackdowns are not the issue. Not giving them money? That's mean. Many of us will go to the bar and buy a complete stranger a cocktail but won't give a homeless person $2.00 because we think he will buy a drink with it. Why is he less of a person? Why deny him a drink just because he was drafted into Vietnam?

 

Throwing money at the problem would help a lot, if thrown in the right direction. If we can somehow stop spending billions on wars, and somehow spend a portion of those billions on education and other people oriented ventures, that would be a great start. We can always seem to find billions for war but there is never enough money to fix our education system, which is falling so far behind the other industrialized nations.

 

Also, a considerable portion of these people who we want the police to crack down on and who we feel don't deserve a seat in the square, are military veterans who have become disfunctional by fighting for our country in one of these wars.

 

 

I was homeless for a solid year and had the opportunity to become friends with some former Engineers, Doctors, Lawyers and Businessmen, as well as Vets and people who have raised children and who have had some extremely unfortunate events seal their fate. Many homeless people are much more wise than the average person. Some go to work every day at a temporary labor office. They can't escape homelessness because they have no address to put on a real job application and have to buy new, used clothes everyday, after working in some filthy factory. They go to the gym and pay to take a shower and have to eat at a fast food every day. They have to pay for transportation to and from work and pay to cash their check. They make minimum wage and are single with no kids so they are The IRS"s favorite target. By morning when they report for work, they are lucky to have enough to buy lunch, at lunch time.

 

For some homeless people, the only joy they can get out of a day; is to sit in that square and watch people and pigeons. I know there are those who use it for a toilet and those who smell bad, but trust me on this: There are some that have some very interesting stories to tell and some who feel sorry for us. A conversation with a few of them will remind you how a close most all of us are to being homeless at this very moment. Fall a sleep with a lit cigarette, slip and fall and end up with a back injury that racks up a million in medical bills, etc. There must be a million ways everyone of our live could change instantly. Some drunk throws a punch at you in a bar and you gently push him down while defending yourself. He dies and you go to prison. These are some of the stories you hear that set off a chain of events that lead to their current predicament. While in jail, you get attacked, raped or abused, etc. When released, you're a violent felon, bitter and angry, with a college degree and a nervous twitch. While you were in jail you lost your wife to another man, your house, job and everything you owned. What's next? You need a drink.

 

All I'm saying is: "Lighten up!" Many homeless people are you and I with one wrong move or one unfortunate incident. Programs, Job Training, Rehabilitation, Psychologists, Second Chances, Education, Health Care, Ending War, Cutting off the supply of drugs, Social Issues, etc., are all part of the solution to the homeless problem. Removing benches is not going to solve anything. They'll just lay on the ground. Where else do they have to go?

 

 

 

^All excellent points.  We need to remember that ultimately homelessness is the problem, not those who are homeless.  The things that some homeless folks do that frustrate/annoy us should be seen as the symptom of a larger problem.

it is way too complicated to think about all these things. Lets just just do something knee- jerk and short acting.

I disagree that not giving random homeless people money is "mean." However, I do agree that getting rid of benches is not the answer. I hate when cities and other locations do that. It's incredibly unwelcoming. So, we're going to punish everyone because homeless people sleeping on the bench are unsavory?

Master, I understand your point and sympathize with your former situation.

 

However, I still would give a damn cent to a homeless person.  It's not about looking down on anyone, its the principal.  I think everyone here is looking a ways to solve the problem, not put a band-aid on the sore.

 

If I give to you everyday in front of my door, why should you work?  If I say, "no, don't ask me for money, I've donated to Mental Health Services, The Downtown Homeless fund, and the Coalition to the homeless and then direct them to Payne & 17 street, to me, that is better than giving them money then and there.  I don't know where that money is going or what they are going to do with it and it's "appears" easier for them to beg on public square then to go through the proper channels.

 

This isn't about chastising the homeless, but getting them to a location that provides the services they need and stops them from begging there becoming a "perceived" problem.

I appreciate your perspective Master, but if you're giving money to an alcoholic so he can buy a drink or to a junkie so he can buy his next fix you aren't helping anyone.  All you're doing is helping him to dig his own grave. 

 

And if panhandlers drive away my customers, then they won't have anyone left to beg for change from, and I'll be on the streets with them!  It's win-win!

MTS,

 

I agree that ultimately the best thing you can do for the homeless is to not give them a cent directly, and make donations to programs that give the homeless a fighting chance at rejoining society.  Handouts from one person to another don't make meaningful change.  Teach a man to fish...

You guys, first of all, every homeless person isn't an alcoholic or a drug attic. This is a terrible stereotype. Also, not all homeless people beg. In fact, many work every day. They just don't have a home to go to and can't escape homelessness. And everyone has the right to do with their money, what they want. Personally, I do give some homeless people money. Not all. It depends on if I get the impression they are trying to run something on me or not and of-course, if I can spare it. I can usually spare something. Believe it or not, sometimes when someone asks you for money for food, it is really for food. A lot of times it is for alcohol or drugs. If you ask me for some change to help with a beer, I will probably say yes. I'm not trying to solve the homeless problem when I say yes, I'm trying to help someone get through the day. Just because he wants a beer doesn't make him an alcoholic; he may just want to enjoy his miserable day. If he is an alcoholic, denying him a beer will not solve his problem, but buying him one may end his pain, for a while. I don't believe I am helping him into his grave, I believe I am helping him maintain his sanity one more day. Each new day is another chance. Alcohol really helps when you're homeless. It really does. It supplies a feeling of warmth when it is cold, it helps you sleep on hard concrete or dirt and it helps to keep your mind off of the gloom and doom that tends to fill your mind, otherwise. All of these organizations you all donate to are mostly useless, I'm sorry to say. They are grand ideas from the minds of people who have never been homeless themselves. They very temporarily treat the symptoms of today. Something to eat today, somewhere to stay tonight, a class to attend so I can listen to someone teach me how to go to a job interview when I don't have an address to put on the job application. I have personally witnessed and experienced many of these BS Programs. Excuse me! The reason each person is homeless is a personal story and the reason they remain homeless is unique to each person. No one solution will work for everyone. I am here to tell you that the best way to end one homeless person's struggle, is to take him into your house. This is only practical for friends, relatives and people you believe in. It is also a great sacrifice and risk. This is what worked for me. Otherwise, we must tackle the many roots of the problem to prevent it in the first place. We must also be kind and understanding. Many of these people have already contributed enough to society to deserve kindness and respect. Many have given so much that they have nothing left to give and have no choice but ask for something. I'm not just talking about money and material things, but service to our country, love to their family and children they raised, a life they may have saved in a fire. Who knows? There are some homeless people who deserve our respect, not our condemnation. For the ones who are just lazy, you usually tell who they are. Finally, it isn't going away anytime soon and with The Iraq War and a bad economy, it will probably get worse.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just give them food.  It's easiest and you know they're not going to barter it away

Just give them food. It's easiest and you know they're not going to barter it away

 

I've had more than one homeless man decline food I've offered, and it was completely untouched/new food.

I used to buy a bagel and a coffee for a guy that staked out the corner of Superior and E. 6th.  He preferred the food. Plus he convinced me the other guy I had "adopted" was using the money for drugs and/or booze. I figured even if he was lying, he won me over with superior salesmanship. :-)

 

I did see a woman trying to buy another homeless woman a sandwich once outside of the galleria. She brought her out a turkey sandwich and the woman's response was " I don't like turkey!" Bah!  :x

Just give them food. It's easiest and you know they're not going to barter it away

 

I've had more than one homeless man decline food I've offered, and it was completely untouched/new food.

 

This has happened to me on a few occasions in DT Cincy as well. I think she actually just walked away without saying anything?

 

It's always the same question: "Sir, can you spare 50¢, because I'm trying to catch the Greyhound to Columbus/Indianapolis?"

When they offer me the jingling change cup I simple reply... "Ohhh..that's mighty generous of you, but no thanks...YOU keep it!"

 

Or,

 

"Hey buddy.. I'm working this side of the street!"

 

The reactions are priceless...

 

Once I even pitched a copy of a field guide to survival identifying and foraging for wild foods in the city, like berries, fruits, nuts, and even small game.

I used to buy a bagel and a coffee for a guy that staked out the corner of Superior and E. 6th. He preferred the food. Plus he convinced me the other guy I had "adopted" was using the money for drugs and/or booze. I figured even if he was lying, he won me over with superior salesmanship. :-)

 

I did see a woman trying to buy another homeless woman a sandwich once outside of the galleria. She brought her out a turkey sandwich and the woman's response was " I don't like turkey!" Bah! :x

 

Beggars can be choosers. Woah!

Just give them food. It's easiest and you know they're not going to barter it away

 

I've had more than one homeless man decline food I've offered, and it was completely untouched/new food.

 

There is a man who sits next to the 5/3rd garage on East 6th street that i will buy food for every now and then or give him my leftovers, and he gladly takes it and says thank you every time.

But there is another one who roams around 6th and 9th that i see all the time. He is very rude to people when asking for change and will sometimes follow them too. So one day i decided to follow him into the cigar shop on 6th and saw him buying scratch off lottery tickets. A day later i saw him in the shop off euclid in the nat city building buying more lottery tickets. So every time he asks me now for money i tell him im not giving him money to buy lottery tickets. I only had to tell him twice until he stopped making eye contact with me completely. 

I used to buy a bagel and a coffee for a guy that staked out the corner of Superior and E. 6th. He preferred the food. Plus he convinced me the other guy I had "adopted" was using the money for drugs and/or booze. I figured even if he was lying, he won me over with superior salesmanship. :-)

 

I did see a woman trying to buy another homeless woman a sandwich once outside of the galleria. She brought her out a turkey sandwich and the woman's response was " I don't like turkey!" Bah! :x

 

Beggars can be choosers. Woah!

 

This type of situation happened to me as well.  When I was walking down Lakeshore close to the strip shopping center across from Euclid Beach, some guy came up to me who I had seen hanging around in the area before.  He asked me for some money to buy food.  I had a large bag of Cool Ranch Doritos in my hands as I was walking (yeah, I know), and offered him the bag.  He said "Man, I don't want that", to which I replied, "Well, you must not be hungry then".  That was the last time I saw him there.

I'm not sure if this dude was homeless or just a lowlife who was sitting in a bus shelter on E. 13th drinking MGD at 8am.......  But I was walking by, and I heard the guy say politely "Excuse me miss, miss, you dropped something."  Generally I ignore people who try to talk to me, but I thought to myself "Oh crap, what if I did drop something....."  So, I turned around and said to him, "I dropped something??"  And he said "Yes, me, you gotta pick me up!"  I then proceeded to give him "the look" (MTS you can insert a picture if you want, lol), and walked away thinking to myself, "D@mnit!  I can't believe I just fell for that!"