I know the Underground Railroad museum is progressing nicely down on the riverfront, but does anybody know if the rest of the plans for the site between the stadiums are going to happen? I thought I remember plans for a park and some housing units down there...

I thought I heard that the funds were secured to buid the parking garages that the development would sit on. So 2004 may be the year we see development on the banks to begin.... Hopefully

I heard the same thing. The parking garages were the holdup.

 

One good thing is that the street grid is coming along nicely, so at least we have that going for us!

The Banks project is an oft-maligned thing from Cincinnati residents and media. Many wonder if it will ever get done, though there have been some positive signs recently as indicated above.

 

For more info on this project, visit http://www.cincinnatiport.org/pa_pg5A.html

I knew the project had a name..."The Banks." A google search produced some pretty nice renderings of the project, hopefully it comes to fruition. Rowhouses, a late hours CVS and a couple bars would make a great (and popular) little neighborhood down there. On a warm day, the location would be walking distance to lots of nightlife and activities.

 

The only problem is that game days would bring lots of outside foot traffic past your door.

Ooohh... the lid on Fort Washington Way would be nice too!

As of now, two blocks of garages are funded and will soon commence construction, this does not count the garage under the Underground RR musuem and it's lawn. These garages are also in addition to what is under the western half of the Reds Ballpark. I also know the Port Authority has recently landed two grants totalling $15-$20 million to work on the transit center and help with the rest of the street grid. Finally, fund raising for the park is ongoing and has some commitments and is moving forward in the design phase.

Hey, I thought this would be a good place to stick Banks-related issues.  While this item from today's Enquirer isn't a huge deal, maybe we can get a little running thread of articles so we can keep up with how this thing is progressing....

 

Group signs deal to develop The Banks

Port authority gives private 3CDC the job

By Ken Alltucker

The Cincinnati Enquirer

 

The regional port authority has approved a formal agreement with a new private development group to build the planned riverfront neighborhood between Paul Brown Stadium and Great American Ball Park.

 

Under the deal endorsed this week by the Port of Greater Cincinnati Development Authority, the non-profit Cincinnati Center City Development Corp. (3CDC) will take on the role of development manager for the Banks project. That means 3CDC will assemble a team to build the project and help the port authority secure money to pay for the $600 million development.

 

The port authority will finance, own and lease the property. Cincinnati and Hamilton County has granted the port authority the power to issue bonds, collect public funds and sign formal agreements with other governmental branches.

 

E-mail [email protected]

Hopefully the rest of the $$ will fall in line shortly so 3CDC can really get this project rolling. What kind of projects has 3CDC headed in the past?

^ Pretty much nothing. They (3CDC) are recently developed (a few months at most) and have been busy sorting out things like leadership.

Kendall, these appeared in today's Enquirer. I don't know if you saw them. I offer these to anyone else who might have questions about 3CDC:

 

Huge Task Awaits Development Expert (Stephen Leeper)

Private Effort Gathers Steam

Similar Cities Share Drain of Young People[/list:u]

Can some of you posts the latest renderings of the banks?

 

What about Cincinnati on the Levee? What is the status of this project?

Nah, the renderings I've seen are the same old ones we've all seen from the 3CDC web site. I don't think there's anything new here:

Port of Greater Cincinnati Development Authority - The Banks

 

As for the other thing, I assume you're speaking about the parcel of land near Montgomery Inn down there (near the purple bridge)? I haven't heard anything about that since the news story first broke.

Those skyscrapers behind the banks, are they gonna get built?

The Banks

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Those skyscrapers behind the banks' date=' are they gonna get built?[/quote']

 

 

I would say no, but you never really know. I think they are there just to show what could be built.

^ Yeah, I would agree that they are just infill ideas.

 

One of them is the twin tower to 312 Elm (the Enquirer building), which never got built.

Man I love the Provident Tower in the rendering more than Queen City Square although the skyline really needs some height behind GABP.

 

Thanks for the information and the banks look like they are gonna be great if they are built

That last artist rendering posted depicting what looks to be a restaurant view overlooking a grand plaza and the skyline is absolutely INCREDIBLE. The Banks will most definitely be an incredible centerpiece for the city's riverfront. Keep us updated!

^ That's the East Club Lounge in Paul Brown Stadium. It would have a hell of a better view than it does now, I agree.

Any new news?

Not in the papers or on TV. I must admit I haven't checked the Port Authority web site lately.

Wow would the garages be high enough to prevent the Banks from flooding?

 

^ Sure. Is Riverfront flooded in that pic?

Riverfront is higher than the street grade because of the elevated parking garage. Isn't the parking garage that is going to be built only going to go up to street grade?

 

Was the flood of 97 a 100 year flood?

the street grid, and the height of the GABP entrance, is roughly one level lower than the height of the top deck/entrance of riverfront stadium, but still out of the 100 year flood plain.

I'm still enjoying the dirt hole where the Banks is supposed to be... here's to hoping something kicks into gear soon. Nothing like visitors coming in from out of town, going to a game, and then coming out of the ballpark and visiting a raised street grid, between amazing HOLES OF DIRT... :) Imagine the money being lost by nothing being out there...

I was in Cincy last weekend and took a trip up to that fantastic outdoor observation deck on the Carew Tower, and, looking down, noticed the riverfront seemed to be on its way to becoming a big parking lot for the new stadiums.

 

Now, after seeing the renderings, I see there are bigger plans afoot, including a sort of "Grant Park"/"Urban Front Yard" solution for the space between the two stadiums, on either side of the suspension bridge.

 

A quibble with the design concept is what looks like a weak or nonexistent link with Yeatmans Cove/Sawyer Point.

Yeah, I kind of imagined a long park all the way from Theodore M. Berry Intl Friendship Park all the way down to PBS. Eh, whattya gonna do?

Here is an updated article on the Banks....

 

I worked with the Port Authority during the developer selection process, and several things about this article are incredibly stupid and conatinue to piss me off.  First and foremost is the fact that they (the Enquirer) always write about the Banks competing with downtown,  Last time I checked, the riverfront was downtown.  Furthermore, the entire redesign of FWW was done to reattach the riverfront to the CBD and make it a seamless transition, which it does very well.  The original Banks plan has always included a small amount of office and retail space only, nothing that would seriously compete with downtown.  All the new major office space was shown north of 3rd St.  Second, the only real thing holding the Banks up is the lack of garage funding.  All the developers who were selected were very eager to be involved in the project, but the economics don't even come close to working without the garages being publicly funded.  The garage roof issue however, is something the county and Port Authority dropped the ball on big time.  Anyway, enough ranting.....

 

Languishing on the riverfront

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Plans change to lure wary developers

 

By Ken Alltucker

Enquirer staff writer

 

 

There's a hole in the middle of Cincinnati's riverfront.

 

On the 15-acre site known as the Banks, surrounded by two new stadiums and a new museum, planners foresee a vibrant community of condos, offices and shops...

 

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2004/07/28/banks400.gif

There are so many competing interests here and so damn much going on. The entire project has lacked focus from the beginning.

Thanks for the insider info. Cincinnati Kid. I thought the article was bad too. Enquirer and Post reporters have been doing a poor job on covering downtown development. The stories are often misleading and tell only part of the truth. I wondered why they say there will be 8 blocks of garages and they have about half the amount needed to build them but only can fund 2 blocks of garages??? It seems to me the Banks project is being held hostage until 3CDC get their hairbrained ideas for Fountain Square accepted. That guy Leeper is an idiot. I attended a public meeting at which he was riped apart by the very large crowd (this was the noon meeting at the Aronoff Center). His presentation was terrible--full of lies and half-truths--and again and again he admitted in answer to questions people posed that they hadn't thought about this or that. Apparently the same thing happened at another meeting. See Nick Spencer's Blog http://nickspencer.blogspot.com/2004/07/bold-fusion-recap-or-how-i-was-right.html.

Interesting read! Here are comments from the people of Cincinnati, so weird, some dumb and some right on point

 

 

 

First of all, the Fountain is fine. Leave it alone. Second, the "Banks" is not convenient enough. Just look across the river. "Newport on the Levee" is close to BOTH stadiums. Cincinnati needs to have entertainment near the two stadiums, in order to make it work. Third, worrying about Downtown not being the focal point is pretty ridiculous. Downtown is dead now. How can anything take away attention from it? If you are able to create interest in the night-life on the riverfront, then the downtown would benefit from the increased activity. Honestly, the City has probably missed the boat(s) on this (no pun intended). The area will have a tough time supporting two entertainment districts. Unfortunately, N. KY got there first!!

--M. Owens, Sycamore Township, Wednesday, July 28, 2004 - 6:05:00 AM

 

Maybe it's because I'm not from Cincy, but I can't figure out this loyalty to Fountain Square. Merely giving the square a "facelift" is not going to compel people to make a trip there. Instead of trying to create two "centers" of downtown (Fountain Square AND the Banks), we should be focused on one. To me, it's a shame for a "river city" not to have more (reasonable)investment in its riverfront. And I'm not talking stadiums! Why not move Fountain Square down to the Banks (look at Chicago's Grant Park on the shore on Lake Michigan)? Worried about people being drawn away from the center of downtown? Make it easy for them to get back and forth -- trollys from the Banks project or the stadiums to Fountain Sq., etc. We need leaders and developers who are willing to think outside the box -- and to think long-term. Only then will this city create the "draw" it so desperately is looking for.

--Anne-Marie Farley, Anderson Township, Wednesday, July 28, 2004 - 6:05:00 AM

 

Private developers need to get involved, they know what the public wants and have the money. If you don't have different anchors like Hard rock, ESPN Zone or Normstromes the project will fail. How about being the first to have fast water taxies across the river or maybe directly to and from the airport to bring travlers directly downtown to advoid traffic jambs. Condos with there own docks would sell! These Ideas are from a life long construction field person and inspector.

--Gordon Wong, Sharonville, Wednesday, July 28, 2004 - 5:24:00 AM

 

This article is very timely for me because I was at the Reds game last night "admiring" our black hole between the stadiums while taking a break from the six to nothing drubbing our beloved Reds were receiving from the Cardinals. I was raised in Cincinnati and I have just recently moved back to my hometown. In the 14 years I have been away, I have noticed that a lot of concrete has been added to the riverfront area so that we now have two very nice stadiums with absolutely no access or even a gathering space outside. The access to both stadiums from Ft. Washington way is almost non-existent and I completely dread the crowded walks to and from the games. The lack of access has also caused me to develop the habit of having dinner at restaurants outside of the downtown area before coming down for a game. The area has a lot of potential but the access needs to be improved. I recommend that we leave the fountain exactly where it is on Fountain Square and put that money towards some

--Tom, East Walnut Hills, Wednesday, July 28, 2004 - 5:14:00 AM

 

Did we ever seriously think that the promise of the Banks to offset the raping of the riverfront by the stadiums would ever come to pass? It would require something unprecedented in recent years, a city council that actually had the best interest of the region as a while in its agenda. We'll see people planning family vacations to Northern Kentucky (and never crossing the river) before we see any real credible cooperation on the Banks.

--J. Jones, Oakley, Wednesday, July 28, 2004 - 4:46:00 AM

 

Why don't they stop talking offices on our most expensive riverfront property? Don't they see the success of Newport Levee? Fountain Square is the center of the old city...the new center can be on the river between the stadiums. Let the developers make the plans for entertainment, hotels, etc., but offices should remain in the business district, which gets rolled up at 5PM every night.

--Bob Fancher, Hyde Park, Wednesday, July 28, 2004 - 3:08:00 AM

 

Dear Lord! There must be some way to design a wonderful square without spenidng millions to move the fountain! And then risk ruining this landmark on top of it! What are these designers and the folks contemplating this idea thinking!

--Charlene Schneider, Kings Mills, Friday, July 23, 2004 - 5:44:00 AM

 

Leave it where it is and build everything else around it. Why does it have to be physically in the center. It will always be the focal point wherever it is.

--Judy Mullenix, Downtown, Friday, July 23, 2004 - 5:23:00 AM

 

Why not just move the fountain to Kentucky? That way all the Cincinnatians would have a safe and fun place to go for relaxation and entertainment... just as they do now.

--MBT, Ft. Thomas, Friday, July 23, 2004 - 5:23:00 AM

 

As one who takes my lunch many times to the square, I am opposed to the plans for Fountain Square. Don't move the Fountain. It is beautiful where it sits. A real focal point as you come down 5th street. Very visible from the street. Why move it and put trees around it where it won't be seen. Trees bring birds and we lunch eaters don't need to be watching for poop! Why move the band stand which brings people to the square all the time during the summer. Update the skywalk and let it stay the way it is. I love it!

--Paula Fitzgerald, Fifth Third Bank Employee, Friday, July 23, 2004 - 5:22:00 AM

 

I really can not understand why the "facelift" means you have to move the fountain. Its costly, and fragile. Just leave it be and make plans around it.

--Ms. L. Breeze, Covington, Kentucky, Friday, July 23, 2004 - 5:18:00 AM

 

I cannot believe that the city would even consider such a lame way to attract more people downtown. The Square is already a popular place; move the fountain only if you can replace it w/a casino which could make money for the city instead of spend money as the planners are so inclined to do. Obviously, the casino won't fit in this spot, but I think you do get my drift! Sherry A. Haworth

--Sherry A. Haworth, Western Hills, Friday, July 23, 2004 - 5:15:00 AM

 

Moving the fountain is completely pointless. The reason people don't shop downtown has nothing to do with where the fountain is located. Instead, city planners should spend the money on making people feel safe downtown. Also, cleaning up the stairwells coming from the Fountain Square Garage and having them not smell like urine would be more effective and much cheaper. But hey, let's not get crazy and start using common sense to improve the Square.

--Andrew Curran, Oakley, Friday, July 23, 2004 - 5:12:00 AM

 

i think fountion surare where is it good spot

--DIANNE KOEHLER, i live at norwood ohio, Friday, July 23, 2004 - 5:11:00 AM

 

If I owned an auto that had a blown engine, I don't think I would rotate the tires to fix it.

--MONTY DEES, INDEPENDENCE, KY, Friday, July 23, 2004 - 5:09:00 AM

 

Start with the large gaping sand lot that is the riverfront between the two stadiums...then worry about the fountain. Moving the fountain a few feet is not going to attract people downtown. Having a vibrant entertainment district on the river to compete with Covington and New Port will.

--Jason Wainscott, Wyoming, Friday, July 23, 2004 - 5:01:00 AM

 

I FEEL THEY SHOULD LEAVE THE FOUNTAIN WERE IT IS, TO MOVE IT FROM ITS CURRENT LOCATION SEEMS LIKE MORE TROUBLE THAN WHAT'S IT WORTH. IT'S BEEN IN THAT SAME LOCATION FOR ALL THIS TIME, WHY TRY TO REINVENT THE WHEEL. AND TO PLACE ALL THOSE TREES WOULD TAKE AWAY FROM THE BEAUTY OF THE SQUARE AS IT IS RIGHT NOW. LEAVE FOUNTAIN SQUARE ALONE AND WORK OR SOME EYESORES THAT WE HAVE FOR EXAMPLE VINE STREET, AND MAIN STREET.

--KAREN HAUGABOOK, NORTH COLLEGE HILL, Friday, July 23, 2004 - 4:58:00 AM

 

Why not keep the fountain where it is and use the +$3M to move it on smaller water features and other items to improve aesthetics on the square? This also would appear to be safer for the mechanical integrity of the fountain itself.

--Sue Hoover, Cleves, Friday, July 23, 2004 - 4:56:00 AM

 

What a joke. the sqaure has been in it's current state for 133 years. why change it now? what needs change is the current trend of people moving out of the city, leaving behind poverty and crime. why not spend that money on solving problems like that? Why not lure young professionals in with a downtown that has stores, clubs, and the like open later? seems like a sideshow to mask the real problems of the city.

--Adam Nintrup, bridgetown, Friday, July 23, 2004 - 4:52:00 AM

 

I drive into town each day from the West and pass the fountain. It is also visible when making the bend from the North. It calls people to the city where it is now as you can see it from the East when walking towards the square. Moving is too costly. We need to remove the stage which breaks up the square, add the green and retain the fountain's location. Its restoration was needed and completed. Now let's spend the other funds on getting restaurants to be open for lunch on the weekends! Then we can enjoy our city and fountain 7 days a week.

--TerrieMinniti, Delhi/WEstern Hills, Friday, July 23, 2004 - 4:38:00 AM

 

Until the city addresses crime issues any renovation of Fountain Square will be wasted. People will not go downtown just to sit on a renovated Fountain Square. They go downtown for other reasons and may stop by Fountain Square to eat lunch. The reality is that Fountain Square is just a big cafeteria and public meeting place. By adding all the trees the space will be more difficult to use as a public meeting space and just become a space to eat lunch.

--Ronald Heile, Pleasant Ridge, Friday, July 23, 2004 - 4:36:00 AM

 

I think that spending money on Fountain square is totally irresponsible of our council. We couldn't even open up all the swimming pools this summer due to lack of funds! What we need is some progressive thinking to catch up with our surronding communities--Like Newport (Newport on the Levie) and Lawrenceburg (Argosy Casino). If we keep up this stodgy way of thinking, we could end up like Atlantis--The Lost City!!!

--David Audretch, Riverside, Friday, July 23, 2004 - 4:36:00 AM

 

It is a white elephant! Let the boys and girls at city hell use the money to secure the city!

--Charlie Schomaker, Fort Thomas, Friday, July 23, 2004 - 4:14:00 AM

 

Where is the sense of tradition? Why do you guy's alway's have to tear something up? I moved from Sharonville to Appleton WI. in March and I love the fact that they leave things as they are. If that fountain has bee there 133 yrs. Why move it? Create a park like setting around it and leave it be. Maybe people would take more pride in the community if you quit tearing it down.

--Wanda, wisconsin/sharonville, Friday, July 23, 2004 - 3:40:00 AM

 

why ???? why move it,,,sounds like aother dumb idea,,,money needs to be spent on more important problems now..

--Joe Ryan, Norwood, Friday, July 23, 2004 - 3:30:00 AM

 

I used to live in Cincinnati but now live in Ontario. I loved to sit around the fountain in the summer and when my daughter was little she loved to go down to the fountain too. Why move it? Also why would you waste the money moving it when there are much more important things that money could be spent on. Government knows how to waste money from even the lowest levels.

--Kathy Challis, Newmarket, ON, Friday, July 23, 2004 - 2:59:00 AM

 

I would like to see Fountain Square become a place where street musicians perform, people can relax, and the city can feel proud. More trees and flat space will quickly and significantly help this.

--John Wulsin, Indian Hill, Sunday, July 18, 2004 - 11:14:00 AM

 

Whats wrong with this...moving the fountain? What a waste of money, that we already don't have. I attend alot of events in the city, and in my opinion, lets keep the stores open later for one on weekends. We can refurbish the square without moving the fountain, like yes maybe trees..more sitting space, vending stands, and maybe doing something with the riverfront..ie: like newport has done. As far as the skywalk goes keep it for people to get around, workers and visitors, as it makes for great access to the shops and general utilization. Don't move the fountain...taxpayers waste in my opinion.

--D. Bronson, hyde park, Saturday, July 03, 2004 - 10:07:00 AM

 

Leave Fountain Square alone. Try infusing some life and big money into 4th street instead.

--KC, Anderson, Friday, July 02, 2004 - 1:26:00 PM

 

Why are we doing this? Is this supposed to stop racial tension and the flight to the suburbs and Kentucky? I don't think this is really where we should be focusing our energies. I understand a desire to update and improve the square. Some improvements are nice - the flattening of the site, adding more space on the south side and removing barriers are all good ideas. However, some things aren't worth it. Why move the fountain? It works where it is, and if you widen the square to the south you will have even more room around it. No big deal. Besides, it does have a dominant presence when you drive down Fifth. Nothing better than seeing it once you get off 75 (which is great considering out-of-towners come that way from the airport - its a good way to greet visitors). And what's up with the trees? We don't need to "green up" downtown to make it more livable. Look at Seagrams Plaza in New York or Daley Plaza in Chicago - great public spaces that work without being turned into a nature pres

--A.J. Igel, Over-The-Rhine, Friday, July 02, 2004 - 6:55:00 AM

 

"THE SQUARE" this is the most dumbest thing that the city has done yet, what our schools that need rebuilt and the teachers they say they don't have enough money to pay in order to have smaller classes and what about hiring more police officers and paying them more money to protect the city from crime and gangs, they need police on foot patrol, and what about these jobs that don't pay people what they should be getting i am pretty sure the jobs some people do they are not being paid enough. These are just some of the things that are more important than the square and what it looks like. People stop going downtown years ago when they took away McAlpin's or did you notice. Their is really nothing to go down there for, and when i do go there it dont look any different so quit wasting money,(my money) and work on things that are more important. the square should not be on your to do list....get it together people!

--Tonya, Avondale, Thursday, July 01, 2004 - 12:05:00 PM

 

I can't not believe that the city of Cincinnati would even think about rebuilding the square. That is too much money of our taxpaying funds to be spending on something like that. Cincinnati lost its people years ago so don't think if you remodel the square it would bring those folks back. I think the city has made one too many mistakes when it comes to funding knowing there are much more important things that need to be fixed, like they always say "don't fix it if it's not broke." They have not been able to stop the crime rate within the city and the gangs and that's because they worry about less important things first. I think the city needs to focus more on crime, schools, paying and hiring more police officers to patrol high crime areas and to get out on foot patrol to get to know the people in the neighborhood and better jobs. The city is taking our taxpaying funds and using it for unnecessary things when there are schools that need to be rebuilt.

--Tanya, East Walnut Hills, Thursday, July 01, 2004 - 5:36:00 AM

 

The new design? I like it. It's a major shift in the right direction. Five suggestions to improve upon the most recent design. 1. Plant some grass to soften the park, provide more pedestrian-level color and enhance the impact of the trees. 2. Create beds for plants and flowers. The edges are still too hard with all those pavers and these would provide relief. 3. Plant evergreen trees to provide some color during the dreary winters. 4. Create lots of ways for people to sit, rest, wait, watch and rendezvous. 5. If the designers didn't already, visit Smith Park in downtown St. Paul to see how nice an urban park can be.

--Peter Hames, Over-the-Rhine, Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 6:28:00 PM

 

Although in general I support the idea of upgrading Fountain Square, I think there are several points that need to be clarified. First, the location of the fountain itself is not the problem. Second, what's going on with the Skywalk? There had better be a way to access the Skywalk from Fountain Square! If you want to route it through 5/3, then okay. But the Skywalk is a sensational system for allowing pedestrians to move around Cincinnati. Don't take it away, or chop it in half. Let's not be stupid. Third, I just spent last weekend in Columbus attending a Convention in the Arena District. Holy Cow. Has anyone from the planning committees been up there? Tons of people. Tons of restaurants. Tons of shops. Fountain square should be made more level so that it is more accessible, but in my opinion, if you want to create a "fountain square district" then how about more fountains? More water? And more connection to the convention center, especially since it is expanding.

--Scott Macmann, Oakley, Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 2:54:00 PM

 

Even though my job currently has me living in Arlington Va, Cincinnati is my hometown. Several times a year when I come home I always have to go downtown and see the Tyler Davidson fountain and Fountain Square. Don't move the fountain -- it is a complete and total waste of money, and money is something that I understand Cincinnati does not have to waste. The fountain is just fine where it is! On to the stage -- I don't see much use for it, but I don't care if it stays or goes. Finally, the Skywalks. They definitely need to STAY. When I worked in downtown Cincinnati for years, the use of Skywalks allowed me the worker - someone who had very limited time for lunch - to get to stores, restaurants, etc. without having to waste time to go down to the street level. It also was perfect for the rain and snow days. Remember, it is mainly the worker who uses the Skywalks during the day. Visitors and non-downtown workers stay at street level.

--Barbara Ilacqua, Arlington, Va., Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 11:15:00 AM

 

YES, DO IT - I love the new design for Fountain Sqaure ! I work downtown and am often on the square. This redesign will be great for the city. And let's do away with the Skywalks...we need to get people down on the street level and walking by the shops...that way maybe people will stop in and buy!

--Rick Beavers, Fairfield, Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 10:01:00 AM

 

I think that the plans for removing the skywalks are great. The skywalk on the north side of the square is open so there's no protection from the elements. I don't see the need to move Fifth Street further south by using up the south sidewalk. I think that would be a mistake, especially if you want sidewalk establishments there. Regarding the trees, it's important that not too many be planted to create sightline and pigeon problems. I question the need to move the fountain and have mixed feelings about the need for a stage. I think you need to focus on what will bring sidewalk establishments to the square. One of the most successful urban spaces I have visited is Bryant Park in NYC. A few years before it was a drug haven. When I visited, it was full of people sitting in chairs visiting, eating on a terrace or just enjoying the atmosphere.

--Brent Isaacs, Clifton, Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 7:32:00 AM

 

The photos of the redesign do not convince me in any way that the new square will attract any more people to it than the current square. People are not using the current square just like they are not using the current downtown. I can't seem to believe that "green" space pictured can be obtained by planting small trees (very large, mature trees are shown) in planters above a garage.... have you ever noticed the # of dead trees/plants throughout downtown that at one time were designed as some type of improvement. Where does this really fall in the list of things the city needs????

--SMB, Anderson, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 7:57:00 PM

 

Having visited cities that have spectacular downtown communities (e.g. Montreal) and those with mediocre downtown communities (e.g. lower Manhattan, Cleveland); I am more than ever convinced that to succeed, cities must reserve their prime central core for people in residences, small retail stores, restaurants, modest professional offices, galleries, etc. rather than allowing this prime space to become barren concrete office buildings destined to be empty and uninviting most of the time. Without this central constituency of full time inhabitants, cities wither and die from the center. Therefore, while the views of the proposed square are nice and could be pleasant (I also don’t see why the fountain has to be moved); more importantly, it seems to me, is what is done with the perimeter of the square, what will surround it. If it is just the same slabs of granite and concrete that are the skeletons of all failing cities, then nothing that is done will result in a prosperous and thrivin

--Bob Haynes, North Cincinnati, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 7:01:00 PM

 

Not impressed, just a few trees and we move the fountain again. If you want to do something put it back where it was. That would be an improvement. This is busywork and expensive busy work at that.

--Ken Mee, Loveland, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 6:39:00 PM

 

Typical Cincinnati City Council - it ignores the real problems (perception of safety downtown, racial tension, eliminating barriers to downtown development) and instead focusses on fixing something that ain't broke. The plans are a waste of money sorely needed for better uses. Moving the fountain is completely unnecessary. Planting trees everywhere and not providing some type of stage defeats the main purpose of the square as a public gathering space. Further, the trees actually block views of the fountain from any angle. Why not raise the sunken east side of the square, put the shops there, and leave everything else alone?

--David, Ft. Wright, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 6:15:00 PM

 

Not an aggressive attempt at redesigning the Square. Let 5/3rd Bank truly display its commitment to the city by removing its garage. Obviously a significant cost, but once all the consideration, designing, and construction is over, what do we really want at the north face of the redesigned Square, a parking garage or the Contemporary Arts Center? Plus, the Square would double its size. That's big bucks, but a better return on investment then $10 million for a new grove of trees.

--Lawrence Zeinner, Downtown, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 5:36:00 PM

 

Overall, the new design looks great. When I think about a public square, I envision a bustling European square. Fountain Square comes close to that, but unfortunately only about an hour a day, five days a week. The current Fountain Square is anything but inviting. The new design does a good job of softening the square by removing the walls, different levels, and the ugly concrete elements and adding much needed greenery. I think the fountain located in the middle is better, but hopefully that doesn’t end up being a deal breaker. I’m glad to see the Skywalk gone. . .

--Mark, Dayton, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 5:20:00 PM

 

As a former downtown employee who had to go to numerous buildings downtown for business, I never used the Skywalk. The street level is where all the action is. The Skywalks siphon too many people from the street, resulting in business competition on the first and second levels. By eliminating the Skywalks, it creates more of a “critical mass” of people on the street level, resulting in better business and retail success. I think bringing in a portable stage for big events is better than having a permanent ugly stage, but if people are so in favor of a stage, it should be included. . .

--Mark, Dayton, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 5:19:00 PM

 

I do have several concerns about the design. The trees will probably create more problems with the birds. Also, widening the jog in the street will likely create problems. Overall, this looks like a great plan. Unfortunately, in keeping with the conservative nature of Cincinnati, people often times have a difficult time recognizing and implementing a good thing when it comes along. These plans will probably end up just gathering dust on a shelf with other good plans, such as the subway, the Banks, light rail and others. Hopefully the city administration proves me wrong.

--Mark, Dayton, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 5:18:00 PM

 

My first thoughts when I heard about this was that Cincinnati plain and simply can't decide what it wants to do. That's why it lost the Aquarium and the Hofbrauhaus, and will ultimately be the reason why the Banks project is never built. To think that throwing a bunch of money into rebuilding Fountain Square will somehow magically bring people downtown is shortsighted, and only goes to show that there is a serious lack of creative vision in that city. If you want to bring people downtown, GET YOUR BEHINDS BUSY ON BUILDING UP THE BANKS PROJECT!!! And whatever happened to the buzz about that project the Gregory family was planning? Just to show the lack of vision the city has, look at Carew Tower. The city STILL doesn't have a skyscraper taller than THAT!? It shows just how much potential Cincinnati had, and it's just been wasted. Building up Fountain Square will just be another waste. You wanna draw people downtown? Then flood the area with shops, restaurants, trolleys, easy a

--Rob Adams, Moved to Butler county a long time ago, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 5:01:00 PM

 

The design looks great! The design looks great! Less concrete, more trees-I'm all for it! I also like the fountian in the middle. Let's do it!

--Joan Hohenberger, Loveland, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 4:53:00 PM

i'm a soldier and a native cincinnatian. i brag on cincy to all my fellow soldieres. i hate this new plan. if your going to move the fountain, how bout down between the two stadiums and create a "new" fountain square. a view of the suspension bridge, the city's skyline and nky. this time get the design right and lets get the riverfront construction going. what better building block for the banks project than the fountain? anybody agree?

--paul horn, western hills, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 4:30:00 PM

Fountain Square looked tired when we moved from Cincinnati eleven years ago. The new design is wonderful. The best part is that it now becomes part of the adjoining streets. The old elevated design was awkward. I like this a lot.

--Katharine Crosson, Kansas City, MO; lived in Cincinnati until 1993, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 4:26:00 PM

 

This is really silly! We are removing the places that make people feel unsafe and replacing them with trees to hide criminals? I stopped bringing my family down years ago due to the threatening nature of the folks that frequent this area at night. Why don't we use this money to clean up the unsavory charactors and the problems they bring downtown. That would be a much better use of the money.

--Joseph Smith, Kenwood, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 4:23:00 PM

 

I like the way the new square. Many people are talking about the need for a stage; why? We already have a stage at Sawyer Point. Or, why not put one in at the Banks? The biggest thing to understand is that this project alone can not turn around the image of downtown. This project needs to be a piece of the puzzle that also includes the Banks, the caps on FWW and a revitalized Vine St. among others. All these projects need to tie into and compliment each other for a new downtown to form.

--S.A.E., Delhi, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 3:23:00 PM

 

It's more taxpayer money poured down the tubes to create more people to move from Cincinnati. I go back every two years and always get hit by a panhandler and the litter becomes worse every visit.

--Kenneth Record, Las Vegas, NV, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 3:09:00 PM

 

Please do not change Fountain Square. I was so disappointed to read that the city is even considering that! I grew up in Cincy and attend SCPA. We would take art field trips to the square and draw...so much fun. The new drawings look like we would be in the woods...not downtown. Please use the money towards a project that is needed!!!!!

--Lisa Niesen, Hawaii, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 3:09:00 PM

 

I don't care where the fountain or trees are located on the square. I work downtown and pay taxes. I'm upset about the skywalk removal. The skywalk is my access to restaurants, Lazarus, Tower Place, etc. during lunch hour. If I have to use the "street route", particularly during bad weather- the suburb malls and the building cafeteria can count on increased sales.

--E. Rogers, Anderson Twp, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 3:01:00 PM

 

I think from the pictures that the square would look ugly, the scene will be so uncomfortable with trees all in the way of viewing the beautiful building of downtown and the birds using the rest room everywhere will make the square look ugly i think it is ugly, uncomfortable but that's Cincinnati

--S.N.W, West End, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 1:46:00 PM

 

I can't believe that the City of Cincinnati actually has the nerve to plan to put money into fountain square when so many neighborhoods wher people try and live are falling apart, when the city provides so little funding for youth activities and jobs that our kids have nothing to do but hang out on the corners and get into trouble. I am absolutely disgucted at the fact that a top priority on the City of Cincinnati's list is to redesign fountain square. I think that this sends an all too familiar message about the racial and economical climate of this city and I truly believe that if the residents of this city do not begin to look at things differently and set some new priorities we will be in a state of emergency even before this summer's end.

--Monique McClain, Westwood, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 1:31:00 PM

 

Moving the Tyler-Davidson fountain will be a major part of the expense to renovate the square.(We recently spent 2 million or so to refurbish it!) Why not leave it in it's present position and focus the new design on other areas of "the square" (such as better lighting,creative greenery etc.) The fountain will be the "centerpiece" regardless of it's location. Also, elimination of the performance stage (another expensive option) would make "the square"less user friendly and much less versatile.(i.e.Go Reds,Bengals,live performances,presentations etc.) Thanks for considering my comments, I really enjoy "the square".

--Ricardo Bell, Evanston, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 1:26:00 PM

 

Fountain Square needs a stage! Moving the fountain sounds like a waste of my taxpayer money. Work around it.

--Linda Jeanmougin, Finneytown, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 12:50:00 PM

 

The plans published in the Enquirer on 6/29/04 are right on. I WANT to patronize downtown outside of business hours, but the variety and convenience of Newport on the Levee lure me away. I enjoy attending sporting events downtown, and often would like to just hang out after work or after the game. The new design along with coffee shops, restaurants, etc, would offer just that! We do need to find a new forum for the stage events, but making the square more "green" and accessible will be right on.

--Downtown worker, Mt. Lookout, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 12:40:00 PM

 

The concept is appealing. What has not been addressed or expressed is how you plant trees over a concrete parking garage; how many parking spaces would be removed to create tree pits and if the garage would have to be reinforced structurally to accomodate the trees; if the overhead walkway from the east will be retained (since it is integrated into the buildings on the adjacent block) and how that connection will interact with Fountain Square; and how the sidewalks on surrounding blocks will beciome more inviting and link other uses to the square.

--BOB RUFF, EAST WALNUT HILLS, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 12:28:00 PM

 

I couldn't believe my ears when I first heard that so much money was going to be spent on Fountain Square. The reason people do not come to downtown Cincinnati is that they do not feel safe and there is nothing to do. For entertainment go to Newport or Covington. Northern Kentucky has learned to move quickly and to capitalize on Cincinnati's many mistakes. With so many people leaving the city I would think the first priority of City Council would be to work together to make the city more attractive vs the urban spraul growing around the city and to focus on racial harmony not revamping Fountain Square that will only continue to attract the same lunchtime crowd it always has.

--Don Olinger, Anderson, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 11:54:00 AM

 

I work in downtown Cincinnati and I feel there is nothing better than the Skywalk system. You can get to your destination in a hurry and not have to contend with street level traffic and traffic lights. I think taking down the Skywalk is the worst idea ever conceived. Everyone I talk to feels the same way. The city has already taken down some portions. They are trying to ruin the continuity of the system. There are plenty of people on the square every day in the summer. How many more people do you want? People are not going to congregate anywhere unless something is done about the youth that hang around town, especially in Tower Place. People do not feel comfortable with all the shouting and the use of foul language. It is especially present at the bus stops. This has to be addressed.

--BARBARA MYERS, DELHI TOWNSHIP, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 11:49:00 AM

 

Sure it would be nice to make the fountain more accessable, I have tried to show visitors from out of town and circled around a few times not finding close parking spot for disabled visitors(no handicapped sticker), but you have to be kidding! How much money do I have as a tax payer. Peolpe don't go downtown at this point because they don't feel safe. Changing Fountain Square is not going to attract people who are already not going downtown!

--LAURA FELDMAN, HARTWELL, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 10:41:00 AM

 

The wall along 5th street should not be removed, it helps keep children safe by keeping them away from the traffic. I also would not like to see the fountain moved. More trees would be nice along with other landscaping and places to sit.

--Karen Dabdoub, Montgomery, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 10:06:00 AM

 

I have worked in Cincinnati for about two years now and I enjoy the downtown area. The problem is that there is very good competition for after hours and weekend business with Newport. There is no reason to come down here, other than work. Parking is overpriced and the mall is nothing more than a strip mall on its end. After 5:30 this place looks like a ghost town other than the few people asking for money.

--Brian, Ft. Mitchell, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 10:01:00 AM

 

1. Keep the fountain in it's current location. 2. Yes, remove the skywalk. 3. Don't remove the stage. that's stupid. 4. Don't extend the square South. the traffic jog at that corner is already bad enough. 5. Trees are nice, but little ones and not enough for a forest! 6. Flatten the square to remove all the 'nooks and crannies' and make it more accessable, especially to wheelchairs. The designs look like a place to walk through, not a nice place to spen any time.

--Kevin, Eastside area, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 9:56:00 AM

 

I love the plans! One of the reasons I moved to Cincinnati from Chicago is the blending of the city with the trees and hills surrounding it. These plans will bring even more beauty to downtown.

--Dori Dreisbach, Mt. Washington, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 9:42:00 AM

 

I find it interesting that the so-called public meetings for the new design include sites in Montgomery and Newport, which of course are not in the city. I don't recall Newport on the Levee folks holding public meetings in Cincinnati to field responses to their plans. Ugh.

--frazier smith, east walnut hills, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 9:38:00 AM

 

The one item I disagree with is tearing down the skywalks. It is great to walk outside and shop on nice days, but not rainy or wintery days. Every Christmas my husband and I shop downtown and see all the christmas decorations with our daughter. If the skywalks were gone, I would not go down there during the winter! I also think the people who work downtown use them a great deal too!

--Julie, Villa Hills, KY, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 9:36:00 AM

 

I agree with the need to keep the stage for public events, as this is and always will be the "Town Square". I like the idea of adding sidewalk cafes, shops and more outdoor seating. I think adding trees is great, however, the plans allow for too many large spaces devoted to trees, which may create dark and unsafe feeling spaces, especially at night. This should be a 24 hour people place, such as the great public spaces one sees in European cities. One way to liven it up at night might be to wrap small white "christmas type" lights around the trunks - this is often done in places like Phoenix / LA, and can make public spaces feel more welcoming.

--Steve Sindiong, Former resident, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 8:16:00 AM

 

You've got to be kidding! At a time when our government offices are crying that they are out of money, Council is going to put out more money to "fix" one of our most attractive draws that's not broken?! And mess up our traffic? And reduce the area for public activities? Didn't they learn from the Hamilton Cty fiasco with the stadiums? Where are the hard facts? The only positive is that one of the current buildings might house a grocery--much needed for the new condos downtown. We need some economists--not politicians.

--Sharon King, Madisonville, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 8:14:00 AM

 

You want to bring people downtown? Why don't you build a nice outdoor mall with unique stores and restaurants? Wait, they already have that in Newport. How about an authentic beer garden like they have in Munich, Germany? Wait, they already have that in Newport. O.K. well you could always put in one of those really cool AMC theaters! Nope, they already have that in NEWPORT!!! Aren't the city leaders going to realize that "the horse has already left the barn"??? But hey, if throwing down a few trees in public square is going to make them feel better, then fine, "go for it". Here is an idea: BUILD UP THE RIVERFRONT YOU dumba$$es!

--Regular Joe, Oakley, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 8:00:00 AM

 

I love trees, and all the benefits they bring. As long as they don't limit the ability of fountain to be seen by passersby (pedestrian/driver/bus riders) I think the new design will create a cool, peaceful environment for those who stop by the square.

--Kelly Kalb, Mason, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 7:56:00 AM

 

I'd rather see the money used towards revitalizing Over the Rhine.

--Kristen Phillips, Oakley, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 7:50:00 AM

 

Movng the fountain seems like a lot of effort (and expense) for very little result. It appears from the renderings that with all the trees, the fountain will barely be visible from the street.

--Evonne Morales, Oakley, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 7:35:00 AM

 

With all the problems downtown has, refurbishing Fountain Square will not make any difference. If removing the 'nooks and crannies' is a positive point for safety, so is the skywalk. I work down on the square, and I would rather walk the skywalk, it is for one safer from traffic and undesirable people, two it is safer from the weather in rain and winter weather. Also just by renovating Fountain Square is not going to bring 'life' back downtown. There is nothing to do downtown, the stores close at 6, parking is too expensive, and rent is too high for retail space to attract any good prospective restaurants or stores. If you want to bring people back downtown you must make it attractive and accessible. Expensive parking (I'm sorry the $1 lots are not cutting it), and no inviting retail or dining is not going to attract anyone to start hanging out downtown. And lastly more trees are going to do nothing but give the poor homeless people somewhere new to defecate. What council needs

--Fountain Square Employee, Northeast, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 7:27:00 AM

 

Nashville built a mall shopping area downtown a few years ago. Now nobody even remembers where it was downtown. The area became a haven for the homeless and drug user playground.The only profits that were made was by elected officals and contractors of their chosing.The people of Cincinnati of which I am a native of although I live in Tennessee need input from other cities before making elected officals and contractors rich with tax money. Remember if you build it they will come. That is in a field of dreams. Don"t let them make you pay taxes on their dreams. Most people want to get out of down town areas.Don"t believe the hipe that someone else is paying for the square.The best way to make the city a show place is to use the money to help educate students in public schools that is where the future of Cincinnati lies not in the past

--Rick Bruner, Nashville, TN., Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 7:09:00 AM

 

I recall the original revamp on Fountain Square... it was a great improvement but indeed, something more parklike sounds like a winner. I would hate to see everything totally flattened out however. I think some areas such as a grove of trees might be slightly raised or depressed to make the landscape less monotonous. Bring on the restaurants and cafes and extend the design as much as possible into Government Square.

--Brian Porter, No longer living in Cincinnati, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 7:03:00 AM

 

Your story says: "By moving the fountain north toward the center of the 2-acre square, it would no longer be in the shadow of Fifth Street's skyscrapers." But the diagram shows trees being planted in those same shadows. Trees need light more than fountains need light. Dead trees are UGLY.

--Paul Kirley, Deer Park, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 6:47:00 AM

 

We need to liven up the area between PBS and GABP...Put some bars in there and lengthen Sawyer Point... That is where most people are that are going to spend money when visiting and not on the square. You can jazz it up, but don't bog it down with trees so pigeons have more areas to bother us. It could also use more cost friendly shops and not all the expensive stuff. There are a lot of people who work downtown that can't afford Saks and Tiffanys. lets do what the people who work downtown want and not what the money people want.

--bryan, delhi, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 6:44:00 AM

 

Foutnain Square is an identifiable gathering location to hold an event. The events gather a crowd not the fountain. A nicer fountain will not attract larger crowds; events will. Put the fountain money to better use by hiring more cops to create a safer downtown area. City officials are nuts. They think the latest idea of another new department store or a prettier fountain will solve their problems. The problem is actual and perceived lack of safety and convenience to visiting downtown. Further, the dose of daily reported racial tension in the news about downtown and City Council is a killer. Look at the obvious!

--tom jones, white oak, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 6:42:00 AM

 

Yet another vast boondoggle for the well-connected to cash in on. It's not enough that the fountain just underwent a major renovation within the last few years. Now, with all of the urgent things that need fixing in this city, we debate the demolition and reshuffling of the Square as though we were rearranging furniture. Where was the vast public outcry that prompted this initiative? Leave the Square alone.

--John Butler, Western Hills, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 6:37:00 AM

 

Looks like what we have now but more trees? Unitl the city can make dowtonwn inhabitable after 4pm no amount of tree planting and renovating will make a difference. Put more cops on the streets and allow them to do their jobs. When are the Gregory's building our version of Newport on the Levy? Where is the ESPN Zone between the stadiums we were promised 6 years ago? The city needs to concentrate on developing the riverfront not reshuffling an already existing functional area.

--Marty Adkins, Price Hill Incline District, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 6:36:00 AM

 

Be sensible and keep it under a million dollars. Leave the fountain where it is, use arbors, planters, plant trees, benches. Open the redesign up to UC,Xavier,NKY students.Shouldnt there be a unique "Cincinnati" theme? Dont use tax dollars or tax deferrals, private funds only. If you raise the money from higher garage fees, wont that discourage coming downtown?

--lee g, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 6:35:00 AM

 

Why doesn't cincinnati focus on it's waterfront. Let private business build resteraunts and bars between the 2 stadiums. This would revitalize cincinnati. Not trying to rehab an area that hasn't been hopping in years. We should have riverboat resteraunts and bars. If it can happen in Newport why can't it happen in Ohio. I'm tired of crossing the bridge for quality dining and entertainment.

--Stan Tucker, Cincinnati, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 6:34:00 AM

 

I'm not sure if the purposed plan will enhance any of the views from the surrounding buildings. One of my favorite things to do is go downtown and watch from the Palimino restaurant during Christmas and watch the ice skaters. With the trees surrounding the inside court, it will take away a lot of visual contact for those buildings. Also, the trees will interfere with the public gaterings that occur for community gatherings, vigals, presidential vists, etc. Is this a final plan?

--Deborah Holmes, Hamilton, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 6:32:00 AM

 

Looks like one group is planning to turn Fountain Square into Washington Park, while another group has hope of getting rid of Washington Park School so Washington Park can be turned into Fountain Square.

--Stu Mahlin, Hyde Park, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 6:28:00 AM

 

It’s a small start to catch up with the way our neighbors in Newport are taking care of business. Cincinnati comes off being too conservative. The city needs to heed to the Nike slogan and “Just Do It”, as long as it is within reason. The initial plans look great. I really like the idea of trees being planted throughout the fountain. It shows a feeling of tranquility. The only things that I don’t agree with are the removal of the skywalk and performance stage.

--L. Braxton, Colerain Township, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 6:11:00 AM

 

If the city thinks a couple of trees and some tables will turn the current state of downtown around they are sadly mistaken. I've got trees in my yard and a table on my deck. Why would this lure me or anyone else downtown. Just give me one attraction downtown with some character and it (downtown) may be able to compete with the likes of Hyde Park and Mt. Adams as far as the younger crowd goes.

--Jeff, Hyde Park, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 6:11:00 AM

 

This is the most impractical use of this space I think they could have come up with. I work on Fountain Square and use the Skywalk everyday. It’s not only a great way to get around on bad weather days it’s the best way to get around period. Removing it is going to slowdown vehicle traffic and put pedestrians in danger. If it goes I’ll be more likely to stay at my desk then to have to face that mess at lunch each day. Also, did anyone ever come down and look at how the square is used by the people who work downtown. At lunch everyday people sit and socialize on the walls all around the square. It doesn’t seem like you can remove that seating and not replace it. Replacing it would add a sea of tables and chairs to the space. Not very appealing and costly to maintain. And where is the stage? OK the fountain is nice as a focus for people pacing through, but what will happen to all of the events that are held on the square all year long. This plan leaves no good place for our c

--Brian Ewing, East Westwood, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 6:00:00 AM

 

What will make this city great is education and mass transit; not the location of a fountain or how many stadiums we have. This is a major waste of money.

--Joel Mellon, Hyde Park (Future Resident of Dowtown), Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 5:56:00 AM

 

I think the new design for Fountain Square reduces the character of the space to that of just another urban park like Garfield Park. It will no longer be the center of Cincinnati especially since there will be no stage anymore. i can't see people flocking to Fountain Square just to sit under a tree, and believe me I love trees. I don't think the space will accommmodate events like Octoberfest or the Heart Mini- Marathon. I think what we have now works well and should be left alone.

--bob nienaber, delhi township, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 5:54:00 AM

 

I think Charlie Luken ought to get excited about the level of crime in Cincinnati, and leave the fountains etc to others with more time to waste.

--Bill Attwood, Symmes township, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 5:51:00 AM

 

I am so glad I left Cincy. Until the downtown parking situation is resolved there will not be any private developement there. Build garages and they will come. Leave the square alone - it is the least of the city's problems.

--John White, Fairfield, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 5:43:00 AM

 

What a waste of money. Didn't the fountain just have a rehab in the last ten years or so? If you drive around Cincinnati, you can find plenty of other spots that have not been improved in fifty years, lets spend some money and energy in our worst area's! Besides they really should move the fountain, it is in a terrible location. It should be put some where not so dirty, cramped and gloomy. Put it on the riverfront as part of some new project (if that will ever happen).

--Adam Heist, Covington, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 5:42:00 AM

 

that is a waste ob millioms of dollars that fountain is just fine where it is how much difference can moving ot to the center make?

--carolyn robinson, avondale, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 5:41:00 AM

 

it bothers me to see so much money spent on moving the fountain - its visibility is good where it is - spaces can be designed with trees, etc. to guide the eye toward the fountain - add the trees and do the other things in the plan but do not move the fountain -

--annalee duganier, cincinnati, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 5:40:00 AM

 

Something is dreadfully wrong with this picture !! Everyone knows the constant financial struggle faced by the Cincinnati Public Schools. Declining enrollment leading to reduced funding and the upcoming levy to cover $ 65 million of operating costs but our city leaders prefer to update Fountain Square. This is just another example of mis-placed priorities. City leaders act as if they had no responsibility for the educational infra-structure of the area. It is the Cincinnati City School District and it's time to stop treating it like an unwanted step-child. Go ahead and re-do Fountain Square so everyone can see what local leadership is really all about !!!

--Mike Hauer, Villa Hills, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 5:37:00 AM

 

A new Foutain Square will be beautiful. However, I can't help but feel as though the estimated $10 million cost could be better spent. All the redesigned public spaces in the world won't make suburbanites feel safe downtown. There are better ways to revitalize a downtown such as investments in education, improved transportation, and safety (obviously). I realize that there are transportation elements to the new design, however these improvements are scratches on the surface. Regardless, when its finished, I'll probably go there to gawk... then leave before traffic gets too bad or before it gets dark.

--Nicholas Muennich, Clifton, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 5:32:00 AM

 

The Square is fine as is. I decline to come downtown because of safety concerns-and panhandlers and others wandering the streets making us uneasy to be in the city. Direct your limited resources toward clean up instead of trying to fix what is not broken. Keep the Skywalks - spend a little money to patrol them a bit more - and hose down 2 or 3 times a week to get rid of urine odors - both here and in stairwells at underground and other parking garages. I think your visionaries should try taking a walk around town and consider basic issues.

--D R Williamson, Evendale, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 5:31:00 AM

 

Fountain Square has always been a gathering spot for Cincinnatians. I would miss the stage and the trees, though lovely, would impeed a gathering after a penant win or play off game as well as Octoberfest and other gatherings. The hearings in Montgomery I question as they may not come downtown or support the culture and restaurants available. When I lived downtown, people would be asking for directions and I said I was always happy to help out-of-towners enjoy my city and they usually stated they were from a suburb. The plans should be what the locals not planners want and we should look a Newpoert for where Cincinnati missed the boat. When I go to the Aronoff I stay for dinner. Most don't even stay for the curtain call.

--MARILYN CLEARY, BOND HILL, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 5:23:00 AM

 

Here is yet another example of the city throwing money away. Instead of spending millions on the Square how about spending millions, build another jail and get the animals off the streets so people can feel safe when they go downtown.

--Paul Jones, Western Hills, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 5:18:00 AM

 

I work in the Fifth Third Tower. I do not know of ANYONE who works downtown who does not LOVE the SkyWalk! All of these idiot plans that include tearing down sections of the SkyWalk will drive MORE people from downtown. NOT bring more into town. The SkyWalk is the only thing that makes walking from the parking lot tolerable. Mark

--Mark Langenbahn, Fifth Third Tower, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 5:16:00 AM

 

Personally, I no longer come down town because there are too many unsavory types to navigate during the eve hours. I used to park in the garages 20 years ago but no more. I don't even come down in the day, anymore. Revitalizing "The Square" is a drop in the bucket. When McAlpins left I left.

--M. A. Adams, Clifton, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 5:13:00 AM

 

Trees=Pigeon Poop Stations. I sure that will make it easier to run across the square. I am a lover of green space but downtown is a hot spot for Cincinnati's amazing fat pooping pidgeons, which are sometimes mistaken for Cincinnati's famous flying pigs.

--carolyn davis, golf manor, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 5:01:00 AM

 

The plans look good. It appears to be a people friendly place. However one statement struck me about "the number and size of the trees". Trees grow. I hope trees of proper size are chosen to insure that they will not grow too much and overwhelm the area. And I hope that provisions will be made to continue the ice skating rink, and of course provide for a stage area for entertainment. Of course the most important thing is to have attractions in Cincinnati which will draw people downtown to live and shop. Can the base of the buildings there be changes to allow stores where people want to shop?

--Bruce Murray, Newport, KY, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 4:59:00 AM

 

I LOVE FOUNTAIN SQUAREJUST AS IT IS -AS A YOUNG 17 YEAR OLD MARINE AND SERVING OUR COUNTRY IN THE SOUTH PACIFIC I ACTUALLY FANTASIZED ABOUT BE IN CLOSE TO THE FOUNTAIN AND BEING HOME-THE PROBLEM WITH VISITING THE SQARE AND FOUNTAIN TO DAY IS THECLEANLENESS - SO HARD TO APPRECIATE - THE DANCES ON THE WERE VERY NICE AND BROUGHT MANY GOOD QUALITY CLEAN PEOPLE TO ENJOY THE FUN- IT WOULD BE NICE TO HAVE SOME SECURITY PERSON PATROLLING THE GARAGE TO ELIMANATE THAT CERTAIN FEELING OF UNEASINESS

--carl ward, crestview hills, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 4:58:00 AM

 

In light of the report on Cincinnati,s population decline, It seems to me that the leaders in city govenment need to determine the root cause of our population decline and make an informed and intelligent decision to invest in the cities future not random projects that do not address our population decline.

--David Swart, Eastside, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 4:57:00 AM

 

It seems like a waste of money. From what I read and hear about Cincinnati no one wants to come downtown anymore. Why spend that kind of money on a fountain?????

--Mary Levi, Formerly Finneytown, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 4:53:00 AM

 

Typical Cincinnati: we seek a physical solution to a cultural problem. Will spending $10-15 million on Fountain Square reduce crime or taxes, or stop 4,500 people from moving away each year? Are the stage and skywalk contributing to jobs loss and underperforming schools? $10-15 million on Fountain Square would fix up a half dozen neighborhood squares. And the City already is putting $1 million into the garage. This is about giving 5/3 president George Schaefer something pretty to look at.

--John Schlagetter, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 4:35:00 AM

 

It looks to me like they are inviting yet more birds to flock to the fountain. This will not make for an enjoyable lunch on the fountain. You'll have pigeons all around and birds in the trees above doing what birds do to newly washed cars.

--Phil Keller, Colerain, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 4:34:00 AM

 

I think the plan is a good start. It would make the square more of a vital place for people to congregate. Once that is done the city NEEDS to get the BANKS project started. The only way that the city is going to compete with KY is to utilize the assets that we have paid millions of $ for...the stadiums. A bar/shopping/restraunt district between them and on the river is the best course of action. The "new" square is a good first step but doing only that is missing a bigger opportunity. Get it done.

--Tim, Hyde Park, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 4:29:00 AM

 

I see no reason to spend the money, lealve it as it is. It gets decorated from time to time anyway.

--James, Goshen, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 3:55:00 AM

 

A beautiful tree-filled, peaceful oasis in the center of downtown....wonderful. I am delighted that someone finally figured out the square needed grass and trees....not cold cement. Is there room for a small outdoor cafe? I hope the designers do not install a permanent speaker's stand. For civic parties, celebrations,special events, etc., haul in a stage. Let's keep the hot air politicians and other loonies out of this square...make them bring their own lectern....don't encourage them with a permanent one.

--Fred Tivin, Finneytown, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 3:42:00 AM

 

Nice park, but see Piatt Park a couple blocks away, and how it attracts people. Fountain Square can be redesigned to include three HUGE plasma screen monitors (like 10’ by 30’) facing east, north, south to play 24/7. The monitors could be showing anything related to Cincinnati happenings. It could be music being played at the venue just described, at other venues, including Sawyer Point. The monitors could also show live sports (including HS and any college teams) that happen to be going on. There are so many things that could be on these monitors 24/7 to create an atmosphere to want people to be on Fountain Square to hang out, anytime. Somebody has to bring the “neighborhood” or “we are in it together” feel back to downtown Cincinnati, at a 24/7 schedule.

--Terry Lund, downtown, Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 3:37:00 AM

 

i had two restaurants downtown before i sold them back to partner--i love downtown but lunch time is the only time and its not enough to carry you thru your rent and etc. esp. on holidays (closed but expenses still there)--rents need to be cheaper--city needs to help on liquor permits--compete with newport on the leve--i would love to be back but need city to back up what they say--and always remember the city is not a playground for gangs--give suburan mid-class just one reason to come downtown and keep it safe and they will return--need more apartments with parking--its still a problem and its very costly--over $60 per month more on rent which is still high--hope it works and l'll be the first to share in its rise back to where it was--

--richard miller, east side, Saturday, December 20, 2003 - 4:08:00 AM

What did you do, post all 116 or so comments? :D

 

I read these yesterday. Then I got very, very mad at people. But it does seem that absolutely no one wants the fountain moved or think that FSq is our most pressing problem.

I saw this in the 7/31/04 editorial section of the Enquirer. Joyce, are you on drugs?

 

 

Put locally famous eateries on Banks

 

Looking at the front-page picture of the football and baseball stadiums in the Enquirer on July 28 and seeing all the space in between, I have come up with the perfect solution: We need to put some of the things that Cincinnati has been known for, such as Graeters, Skyline Chili, White Castle, LaRosa's, etc., plus some interesting shops.

 

Joyce Ventura Norwood

> thought the article was bad too. Enquirer and Post reporters have been doing a poor job on covering downtown development. The stories are often misleading and tell only part of the truth.

 

 

You've got to understand that reporting on construction projects, and having to attend these meetings, is bottom of the barrel stuff for reporters. Most hate covering that kind of stuff, reporters get shuffled around and you can be reading an article by someone new to the city and unfamiliar with the time line, and the paper sticks the stories in the back where they are in danger of being dropped if an advertiser calls in and wants a bigger ad. I have in my posession several vintage subway articles with wildly inaccurate information, which could have been corrected by a trip down to the library or the Enquirer's own files. But papers don't care about these stories because they don't think their readers do. Controversy goes on the front page of sections, not updates on these matters.

 

Also, photo editors want "faces", not documentary photos of buildings or construction sites. They don't think people are interested in that stuff. They'll always put in a photo of the developer or builder, with a bit of the project in the back, over an overall picture of the project. When was the last time you saw a Time or Newsweek cover without faces on it? Page through one of those and there are very few photos with no people in them. Bombed out building in Iraq or bandana'd Iraqi teenager with machine gun in front of bombed out building?

 

 

>I wondered why they say there will be 8 blocks of garages and they have about half the amount needed to build them but only can fund 2 blocks of garages???

 

Again, we have the luxury on the internet of discussing the particulars of this stuff at length. The paper just plain doesn't care, and to some extent their readers don't care. The other thing is that if a story on one of these dull matters has been published recently, they'll hesitate to run another one too soon. That's why months pass without updates on this stuff.

 

>It seems to me the Banks project is being held hostage until 3CDC get their hairbrained ideas for Fountain Square accepted. Tha

 

 

Yeah, they formed that organization, so it has to figure out something to do. Like NASA after Apollo got cancelled, or something.

Baby steps...baby steps

Commerce secretary in town to award $2M grant for Banks road

 

U.S. Secretary of Commerce Don Evans was in Cincinnati today to present a $2 million federal grant for the construction a road to provide direct access to the city's long-stalled Banks project.

 

Evans was joined by Congressman Rob Portman, R-Ohio, at the presentation at the National Underground Railroad Freedom Center.

 

The Economic Development Administration grant will go towards the overall $4.4 million construction of a four-lane, partially elevated road that would connect Elm and Vine streets, Portman spokesman Kyle Downey said.

 

Downey said the road is an initial step in the overall development plan for the Banks, which calls for office, residential, retail and entertainment development on Cincinnati's riverfront.

 

First proposed in 1999, the Banks is expected to create more than 5,000 jobs, generate an estimated annual payroll of about $171 million and result in $200 million in private sector investment. The Port of Greater Cincinnati Development Authority has been working to line up funds needed to build a pair of new riverfront parking structures that would provide a foundation for the project.

A nickel here, a dime there....

EXCLUSIVE REPORTS

From the November 12, 2004 print edition

Banks could go from talk to action

Leeper: Garage, the first step, could begin in '05

Lucy May

Courier Staff Reporter

Construction of The Banks, Cincinnati's much-anticipated riverfront development, could begin next year with a 1,000-space underground garage built to support hundreds of residential units, a hotel and as much as 300,000 square feet of office and retail space.

 

 

Stephen Leeper, CEO of the Cincinnati Center City Development Corp., said he expects design work on the $20 million riverfront garage to begin during the first or second quarter of next year. Completing the garage, development pad and street grid necessary to build out the rest of the development should take a year to 18 months, he said.

 

The residential and commercial development atop the garage could cost as much as $178 million, Leeper said. He expects the bulk of those costs would be funded privately once the infrastructure is complete.

 

The catch, at this point, is coming up with about $15 million in local funding needed to complete the riverfront street grid and build the pad that would serve as a roof for the underground garages and a foundation for the development on top. That money would be added to the roughly $24 million in federal funds that local officials have secured.

 

^

I'm going to be a great-grandpa before they start this project...

That struck me as a really pathetic article. I still think that Leeper guy is a jerk and will accomplish nothing in Cincinnati. I've seen him ambling down Vine St. a couple of times (his office is in the Kroger Bldg.), but he always looks like he is in outer space somewhere.

You can't argue with $2.5M from the Feds for the Banks!

 

 

 

Congress sends $7M our way

Spending bill will help fund hospital, sewer project, riverfront

 

By Kevin Aldridge

Enquirer staff writer

 

Congress approved a massive spending measure Saturday that included more than $7 million for energy, health and development projects in Greater Cincinnati.

 

More than $60 million in local funding had been in limbo because most of the fiscal 2005 federal budget, due to take effect Oct. 1, had not yet been approved.

 

In an effort to get that done before Thanksgiving, Congress rolled nine proposals into one giant bill. Both the House and the Senate approved the bill Saturday.

 

How close is the city to having enough money to start building the garages for The Banks and is there any timetable for when The Banks may be started?

I haven't heard a damn thing.  I fully expect to hear nothing and then, one day, the money will just show up from somewhere.

 

I'm not holding my breath anymore, though.  This project makes me sad.

At least somebody is still working on this!

 

New plan could get the Banks on track

Parking fees sought from county, teams

 

By Ken Alltucker

Enquirer staff writer

 

A private development group overseeing Cincinnati's riverfront development thinks it has a way to finance the long-stalled Banks project. It wants Hamilton County, the Reds and the Bengals to agree to hand over roughly $5 million a year in parking revenue to help kick-start the project.

 

"We think this is a viable financing option, and we want to pursue it." Stephen Leeper, chief executive officer of Cincinnati Center City Development Corp. (3CDC), said Friday.

 

Hamilton County voters in 1996 approved a half-cent sales tax increase in order to pay for a revitalized riverfront anchored by two professional sports stadiums, a neighborhood and a waterfront park. The stadiums were built, but cost overruns at Paul Brown Stadium and a shortfall in sales tax collections has left no money to build the Banks.

 

E-mail [email protected]

 

I don't see the teams willingly forking over this money unless it can be shown that the development will help the Reds and Bengals in the near term--especially with the lawsuit going on.

 

Nice idea, though.  I believe the taxpayers got shafted as the stadium vote campaign clearly spelled out riverfront development as part of the deal.  It was the main argument over Broadway Commons, after all.

Enquirer is dissing downtown and the city in general. They are trying to increase marketshare in the northern sprawl areas..butler warren counties.

Possible Plan To Kickstart "The Banks" Project

 

RELATED WCPO STORY

 

"The Banks" Project Waits For Funding (05/03/03)

 

 

Reported by: 9News

Web produced by: Liz Foreman

 

1/15/2005 6:25:21 PM

Hamilton County leaders said they are willing to listen to a plan to kickstart the Cincinnati riverfront development project known as "The Banks".

 

The Cincinnati Enquirer reports Saturday that the proposal calls for the Reds, Bengals and the county to put in about $5 million each from parking revenue.