June 15, 200718 yr what does this mean? "I would say it's going to be the Banks and it's going to look like the Banks and feel like the Banks, but maybe more have a little bit of an urban feel to it," Germano said.:
June 15, 200718 yr what does this mean? "I would say it's going to be the Banks and it's going to look like the Banks and feel like the Banks, but maybe more have a little bit of an urban feel to it," Germano said.: Yikes! I would certainly hope that it has a very urban feel to it. :wtf:
June 16, 200718 yr what does this mean? "I would say it's going to be the Banks and it's going to look like the Banks and feel like the Banks, but maybe more have a little bit of an urban feel to it," Germano said.: Lets break this down clause by clause. 1. Its going to be the banks. Well yes, that goes without saying. The banks is the banks. Something is itself. 2. it's going to look like the Banks. Again. The banks looks like the banks. Something looks like itself. 3. and feel like the Banks. ??. The banks is going to feel like the banks. Something feels like itself. 4. but maybe more have a little bit of an urban feel to it. the phrase 'more have' aside. What does that mean? More urban than what? The bank is going to be the banks and feel like the banks but be more urban than the banks. That is a silly confusing waste of words of a sentence.
June 18, 200717 yr The silver lining of all these delays with the Banks project is that the streetcar gets built and well established before anything happens at the Banks, which in turn leads to development there that is more urban and transit oriented (getting rid of the ridiculous amount of surface parking the most recent plan called for), and therefore the supporting parking garages are devoted solely to be city/county owned capitalist revenue generators, leading to money in the municipal bank account and world peace.
June 18, 200717 yr The preferred alignment has the streetcar running no further south than 2nd Street I believe, so its time frame is independent of the Banks project.
June 20, 200717 yr what does this mean? "I would say it's going to be the Banks and it's going to look like the Banks and feel like the Banks, but maybe more have a little bit of an urban feel to it," Germano said.: This person is saying that the developers are going to adhere to the design guidelines outlined in the Banks plan that was produced several years ago, only it will be denser and with more modern architecture.
June 20, 200717 yr The latest renderings have more modern looking buildings than the original renderings.
June 20, 200717 yr Obivously, but where did that come out in this quote: "I would say it's going to be the Banks and it's going to look like the Banks and feel like the Banks, but maybe more have a little bit of an urban feel to it,"
June 20, 200717 yr who cares about the damn quote...obviously it was a waste of a sentence. the point he was obviously attempting to make is that it will be unique...please let us move on.
June 20, 200717 yr who cares about the damn quote...obviously it was a waste of a sentence. the point he was obviously attempting to make is that it will be unique...please let us move on. that's debatable...
June 20, 200717 yr ^where did you get the "more modern architecture" bit from?? Because when you have to listen to doubleplusgood developerspeak bullshit for enough years, you begin to understand what they are trying to say, without actually saying it, which they would never, ever do.
June 20, 200717 yr Good lord. The Banks does not have more "modern" buildings, because the term "modern" is highly debatable. It has more contemporary buildings in the newest release, and the amount of period-historic structures was reduced.
June 20, 200717 yr ^yes...that's if we really want to pick at syntax. :laugh: This conversation has gotten comical.
June 22, 200717 yr Changing its stance, county OKs more subsidies for Banks BY DAN MONK & LUCY MAY | CINCINNATI BUSINESS COURIER June 22, 2007 DOWNTOWN - The subsidies have risen for the Banks riverfront development project, both in terms of cost and elevation. An agreement in principal announced June 14 between the Banks Working Group and an Atlanta joint venture includes $42 million in new subsidies for apartment construction, parking garages that would be used solely by Banks residents and development platforms. All of that would be built atop the two-story riverfront garages and new streets that have long been considered part of the public infrastructure pledged to the deal. Full story text is available at http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2007/06/25/story2.html
June 22, 200717 yr Mike Brown needs to make smart play June 22, 2007 | CINCINNATI BUSINESS COURIER Opinion Piece The time is right for Cincinnati Bengals owner Mike Brown to turn his win over Hamilton County this week into a victory for citizens by making a significant investment in the riverfront. This past week, the Sixth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals affirmed a district court's decision to dismiss the county's lawsuit against the Bengals, effectively ending the county's hopes of altering its lease deal with the team through the court case. Full story text is available at http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2007/06/25/editorial1.html
June 22, 200717 yr if this has already been said...im going to say it again. switching to an apartment dominated first phase of development (3/1) will ensure that the banks be populated quite quickly...at least much more so if they had to be purchased. whats most intelligent about this is that down the road, when the housing market comes back on line the apartments can be "converted" and sold as condos if thats desired.
June 22, 200717 yr Changing its stance, county OKs more subsidies for Banks BY DAN MONK & LUCY MAY | CINCINNATI BUSINESS COURIER June 22, 2007 DOWNTOWN - The subsidies have risen for the Banks riverfront development project, both in terms of cost and elevation. An agreement in principal announced June 14 between the Banks Working Group and an Atlanta joint venture includes $42 million in new subsidies for apartment construction, parking garages that would be used solely by Banks residents and development platforms. All of that would be built atop the two-story riverfront garages and new streets that have long been considered part of the public infrastructure pledged to the deal. Full story text is available at http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2007/06/25/story2.html Sweetening the pot so that they can land a financial backer and get the project off the ground. Not a bad idea in today's market place.
June 22, 200717 yr Can anyone provide a good definition of "due diligence". I've heard this term crop up before and I think it means some sort of research?
June 22, 200717 yr >County voters in 1996 approved a half-cent sales tax increase to build new stadiums for the Bengals and the Reds, amid the Bengals' threats to move to Baltimore. Except some of the sales tax is still subsidizing Cincinnati Public Schools. How much? I don't know. This highlights the problem with the local press -- there's been nearly 100% turnover in the local print media since 1995-96 so nobody remembers that or seems to care despite that stipulation single-handedly costing county taxpayers tens of millions in interest and has held back development. Combine the idiotic CPS subsidy (why are county taxpayers paying for CPS? It was as baffling then as now) with the Bengals practice fields, stadium overruns, etc., and the county would be in a completely different economic situation right now.
June 22, 200717 yr New leadership from Brown and the entire organizations on the Banks project should seek to expand the scale of the first phase, closer to the Bengals stadium. More directly, Brown should step into the Banks Working Group and help ease some of the financial risk being taken on by the city and county. If Brown doesn't want to flirt with real estate speculation outside of the stadium, coming to the voluntary aid of the county would help. The county faces a deficit that officials argue could have been addressed by restructuring the Bengals' lease deal. In addition, Banks advocates are concerned about height restrictions and claims to parking spaces in the Bengals' lease. The team could earn some points just by waiving those rights, which wouldn't cost it a dime. Now that the lawsuit is history, Brown should make some commitments to ease Hamilton County's financial burden in the lease. Such a move would re-establish the Brown family's and Bengals' reputation among a large share of Hamilton County residents and business and community leaders. Is anyone optimistic that Mike Brown will in any way part with (in scary gollum voice) his precious money? I am waiting for this quote to surface: "I would say he's going to be Mike Brown and he's going to look like Mike Brown and feel like Mike Brown, but maybe have a little bit more of a human feel to him." :-D
June 22, 200717 yr Can anyone provide a good definition of "due diligence". I've heard this term crop up before and I think it means some sort of research? You are correct, due diligence is a very detailed researching of a project involving all legal, financial, etc. areas of a possible project. It is mainly done to protect yourself against any unknowns that may be hidden, be they budget issues, zoning/title issues, hidden financial obligations and responsibilities, etc. Basically a cover your ass move (CYA).
June 22, 200717 yr I think we have as much of a chance of Mike Brown coming to the table to be proactive AS an atheist has a chance at working in the Vatican. (FOGIVE ME FATHER!!)
June 23, 200717 yr In case anyone is interested in further detail/imagery of Atlantic Station...I have posted an in-depth thread about the development here: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=13205.msg193399#new You can see for yourself whether you would like The Banks to turn out like this or not. I have a feeling it will.
June 29, 200717 yr Dawson jumps into Banks BY DAN MONK | CINCINNATI BUSINESS COURIER June 29, 2007 DOWNTOWN - Harold Dawson Jr. works to do every deal like he wants to be invited back. "We try to treat the community right, do a quality project," said Dawson, CEO of the Harold A. Dawson Co., the Atlanta developer that on June 14 joined the Banks riverfront development team. The company joined Atlanta's Carter & Associates Commercial Services as a 50 percent equity partner in the Banks project. City and county officials hope the duo can spark $600 million in new housing, retail and commercial development on a 17-acre site that has languished for eight years. Full story text is available by selecting the headline
June 29, 200717 yr Dawson jumps into Banks BY DAN MONK | CINCINNATI BUSINESS COURIER June 29, 2007 DOWNTOWN - Harold Dawson Jr. works to do every deal like he wants to be invited back. Banks Working Group Chairman Bob Castellini described Dawson as "ready made" for the switch. "I've got nothing against AIG. But to trade AIG for the Dawson Co., I've got a general manager at the Reds who would do that trade in a heartbeat," he said. --Senior staff reporter Lucy May contributed to this story. Consider how the Reds are playing and what Krivsky has done, I'm not sure that makes me more confident.
June 29, 200717 yr With all do respect, the troubles the Reds are currently in can mainly be attributed to Mr. Jim Bowden. He depleted the farm system for such one-hit wonders like Dante Bichette, Greg Vaughn, and so on. Krivsky's trades have fallen on bad luck more than anything else, I would say that Brandon Phillips has worked out so has the Josh Hamilton scenario, David Ross, and a couple others that aren't coming to mind right now.
June 30, 200717 yr Truth is ... we'd be sitting right there at the top of the NLC if it wasn't for our bullpen ... but this is for a another thread, I guess.
July 16, 200717 yr Chamber hosts chance to meet Banks developer July 16, 2007 | CINCINNATI BUSINESS COURIER DOWNTOWN - The Greater Cincinnati & Northern Kentucky African American Chamber of Commerce will host a "meet and greet" with developer Harold Dawson Jr., for members and businesses interested in obtaining contracts for the Banks riverfront development. The event will be held Monday evening at the National Underground Railroad Freedom Center downtown. Full story text is available by selecting the headline
July 17, 200717 yr Firms turn out for Banks event BY JON NEWBERRY | CINCINNATI ENQUIRER July 17, 2007 DOWNTOWN - Scores of business people packed a monthly meeting Monday evening of the Greater Cincinnati African American Chamber of Commerce for a chance to network with the Carter-Dawson team that's negotiating to develop The Banks. Harold Dawson Jr., president and chief executive of Atlanta-based Harold A. Dawson Co., spoke to more than 200 people who came to size up opportunities at the $750 million mixed-use project on Cincinnati's riverfront. Full story text is available by selecting the headline
July 18, 200717 yr Does anyone have the financial breakdown for phase one yet? How much is the development team putting into phase one cost verses government funds?
July 23, 200717 yr "Vertical subdivision" to be created for Banks' first phase Building Cincinnati, 7/18/07 Lot 4 (full map below): Click to enlarge City Council may be asked to approve a modification to the Banks' subdivision plat at its August 1 meeting*. The modification of Lot 4 (see map) will allow the county control of the lot below a contour elevation of 510 feet** while preserving the City's air rights above that point. This will allow for county construction of the parking garages necessary to lift the development out of the Ohio River flood plain. The 2.58 acres, surrounded by Main, Second and Walnut streets as well as Freedom Way, will likely be the starting point of Phase I. Phase I will include 300 apartments, 100 condos, 70,000 square feet of retail and 200,000+ square feet of office space. According to the non-binding deal announced by the Banks Working Group on June 14, ground is expected to be broken next April. Banks subdivision plat: Click to enlarge * The agenda was unavailable as of this posting. ** In other words, 510 feet above sea level. http://buildingcincinnati.blogspot.com/2007/07/vertical-subdivision-to-be-created-for.html
July 25, 200717 yr I don't know how this story missed UO... Strickland lets cat out of bag BY JOE WESSELS | CINCINNATI POST July 14, 2007 CINCINNATI - Gov. Ted Strickland let some news slip about The Banks project Wednesday evening during a fundraiser for Cincinnati Mayor Mark Mallory. "I think there will be an announcement in the next few days regarding the state's commitment to The Banks initiative that we hope to see under way real soon," Strickland said. When I asked Strickland to elaborate after his speech, he declined. Full story text is available by selecting the headline
July 26, 200717 yr Why hasn't this been in the news? It seems like fairly substaintial news to omit. If this was published the 14th where is the "announcement in the next few days"?
July 26, 200717 yr Why hasn't this been in the news? It seems like fairly substaintial news to omit. If this was published the 14th where is the "announcement in the next few days"? In government the "next few days" more than likely means next week sometime, but I'll have to see what meetings I have first...I think I can do it on the third Tuesday of the month if not.
July 26, 200717 yr It will be interesting to finally see how much government money is going into this project to make it happen. I hope they build the Banks, but it concerns me that more and more taxpayer money seems to be going into this project. If this projects market study showed a strong demand for this project, then why does it seem that the government keeps having to add funding to get it off the ground. With that said, I would much prefer to see the state help fund a major urban project instead of more suburban infrastructure. If we are going to spend taxpayer money on developments and infrastructure, than do it in the urban areas of the state and stop subsidizing sprawl. I guess we will have to wait and see what finally happens.
July 26, 200717 yr Whether the market is good or not...if you were the developer wouldn't you use that as an edge to get as much government aid as possible. It's simply big business taking advantage of the taxpayers (see Wal-Mart).
July 26, 200717 yr Whether the market is good or not...if you were the developer wouldn't you use that as an edge to get as much government aid as possible. It's simply big business taking advantage of the taxpayers (see Wal-Mart). Check my comment out again.
July 26, 200717 yr IMO, it _should_ be subsidized. And here is how I got there -- Land in the city centers is vastly more expensive than out in the suburbs. Construction costs have risen dramatically every year since Hurricane Katrina. There is no debate there. For a developer to turn a profit, they typically have to build dense developments whose price range can often be afforded by only those in the upper-income bracket. Even though economies of scale applies, it still is not enough to offset the cost of land, construction, etc. In order for most large projects in city centers to even get off the ground, they will require government assistance. A public-private partnership, if you will. Think of it this way: Is the city making a money off of the concrete parking lots that are useless at the site for The Banks? Not really. If the city offered a 70% tax break for 30 years to help finance the project, the city would still make _more_ money than if it hadn't, and the city gains more residents, offices, and the like. It also makes a great use of the existing space and since this is a prime development spot that is very much visible, it should be promoted that much more. See Shelbourne Plaza for another innovative financing method. The city of Lexington, Kentucky is providing the developer a large tax break and other incentives for them to construct an affordable mixed-use development. Without it, the development would have not been possible. Now that the city is offering the incentive, other developers are taking notes and have inquired about it for themselves -- a definite good sign.
July 26, 200717 yr As I posted above, I have no problem with government helping subsidized projects (in urban areas), within reason. But, if government has to basically give away the 'bank' than maybe there should be some concern (I am not saying that is what is happening, we will have to wait and see). Look how bad a deal the people got with the Bengals stadium. There is only so much money to go around, just make sure were it is put really has strong financials and a good return on investment. If the private sector is not willing to pony up a good percentage of the money for a project then that might be a sign their spreadsheets are showing some 'concerns'.
July 26, 200717 yr Hardly anything gets built anymore without some sort of large public subsidy as part of the project. Even greenfield projects out in the sticks.
July 27, 200717 yr a better use of public money would be investing in transportation infrastructure like streetcars, which for the city of cincinnati have and estimated return on investment of 15.2 to 1.
July 27, 200717 yr a better use of public money would be investing in transportation infrastructure like streetcars, which for the city of cincinnati have and estimated return on investment of 15.2 to 1. Definitely!
July 27, 200717 yr a better use of public money would be investing in transportation infrastructure like streetcars, which for the city of cincinnati have and estimated return on investment of 15.2 to 1. broken record anyone...
July 27, 200717 yr I didn't know it was 15 to 1. That's incredible. Yet it's somehow still a struggle to get the public's support. I don't understand people.
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