As for the poor man crapping all over himself, that's very unfortunate but it is probably not his fault

  Yea your right nothing is ever anybodys fault,  If he hadn't also smelled like pot/cigarettes/alcohol nevermind it's not his fault. 

There were loud obnoxious teenagers on the 17 not that long ago, once we got out of over-the-rhine into a safer CBD he stopped the bus and went to the back and said "all y'all get the HELL off my bus NOW". We all clapped.

i ride the 17 a lot and have never once had an issue.  granted ive only been here 4 weeks.  I always had so many more issues on the 2 in cbus, and that wasnt that bad either.  The only thing I feel like with ppl in cincy is that they are idiots when it comes to bus riding.  The 17 is ALWAYS busy in the morning and yet people still shift throught the crowd to exit the front door and then I watch them walk and they walk the opposite way.  Hey, the back door is the exit door and there is less people to make your way through to get to it.  Its so bizarre but it happens all the time.  USE THE BACK DOOR TO EXIT.  ha!  In cbus, they typically enforce this strictly. 

Wait until it gets cold and rainy. The buses also seemed like one big germ with the hacking and coughing going on. Some of the buses have pretty poor seating arrangements which don't help. The new low front section buses seem to fill up faster than the step-up buses. Which will take people to the Banks someday.

  Yea your right nothing is ever anybodys fault,  If he hadn't also smelled like pot/cigarettes/alcohol nevermind it's not his fault. 

 

I think that perhaps we should grow the f$&k up.

 

Just because some people don't make the same decisions as we do, it does not necessarily mean that they are 'at fault'.  Too many are obviously offended by the 'low class' decisions that some people make.  Would we like there to be a smell requirement that you have to pass in order to leave your house?  Or how about a law that you have to pass a breathalyser test to get on the Metro?  Even better, lets pass restrictions stating that the poor can no longer use public transportation! 

 

Most people who are 'at fault' are not trying to offend you or anyone else.  In fact, dirty looks and snide comments are far more offensive than someone who chooses to drink a beer before they get on a bus.  As a society, I think that it is time when we accept the fact that some people are different instead of judging everyone that we see.

 

Besides, why would anyone care if some people smell like pot/cigarettes/alcohol/body odor?  They aren't harming anyone.  In Cincinnati, most buses do not fill up.  If you are truly offended by someone's smell, move to another part of the bus.

 

Everyone seems to forget that the same people who ride the bus are the same people who will be riding the streetcars!!!!  Just because the bus rides on rails, it doesn't mean that the people will suddenly become more fragrant, sober, or white.

 

Public transportation is available for the public (surprise!) to use.  This includes people who may not behave in ways that you wholly approve of.  I am not in favor of obnoxious or offensive behavior on a bus, but come on!  This lack of tolerance in our society is a big reason why public transit fails!

1) Too much of the population lives outside of the city and 2) Our transit system is woefully inadequate.

 

Actually if you live AND work in the city limits Cincinnati has a pretty terrific bus system.  Unfortunately people are leaving Avondale, Walnut Hills, Madisonville, etc. to rot and new businesses outside I-275 are very difficult to reach by bus.  For example there's only one bus per day to and from the Shumacher-Dugan Industrial Park (between I-275 and Union Center Blvd.) from Fountain Square.  One would literally have to get up at 5:00am to take a bus downtown then transfer to that one outbound bus AND get off work in time to get that one bus back.  And it's a zone 3 bus to boot which means it's $4 or $5 round trip.        

 

 

Believe me, I can relate.  I live a couple of blocks from the river, but my office is in Florence.  There are a lot of buses that take that route, but none that run anywhere near my building.  I'd give anything for my office to move downtown so that I could walk or take the bus.  So while my situation isn't great, parking isn't a concern of mine either.  I thought I was in the minority, living in the city and working in the 'burbs, but maybe not. 

Just because the bus rides on rails, it doesn't mean that the people will suddenly become more fragrant, sober, or white.

 

 

Who said anything about race? 

 

Would we like there to be a smell requirement that you have to pass in order to leave your house?  Or how about a law that you have to pass a breathalyser test to get on the Metro?  Even better, lets pass restrictions stating that the poor can no longer use public transportation!   

 

I don't think he was advocating that sort of thing.  He's just had some bad experiences on a certain bus route, so he chooses to walk instead.  That's his right to do so, just as if he had some bad experiences at a restaurant and chose not to eat there again.  I do agree with you that the same people that ride the bus will be present on the streetcar, though.  There's no denying that, and it's not necessarily a bad thing.  Mass transit is meant to serve the public, but that doesn't obligate the public to ride mass transit.

  Yea your right nothing is ever anybodys fault,  If he hadn't also smelled like pot/cigarettes/alcohol nevermind it's not his fault. 

 

I think that perhaps we should grow the f$&k up.

 

Just because some people don't make the same decisions as we do, it does not necessarily mean that they are 'at fault'.  Too many are obviously offended by the 'low class' decisions that some people make.  Would we like there to be a smell requirement that you have to pass in order to leave your house?  Or how about a law that you have to pass a breathalyser test to get on the Metro?  Even better, lets pass restrictions stating that the poor can no longer use public transportation! 

 

Most people who are 'at fault' are not trying to offend you or anyone else.  In fact, dirty looks and snide comments are far more offensive than someone who chooses to drink a beer before they get on a bus.  As a society, I think that it is time when we accept the fact that some people are different instead of judging everyone that we see.

 

Besides, why would anyone care if some people smell like pot/cigarettes/alcohol/body odor?  They aren't harming anyone.  In Cincinnati, most buses do not fill up.  If you are truly offended by someone's smell, move to another part of the bus.

 

Everyone seems to forget that the same people who ride the bus are the same people who will be riding the streetcars!!!!  Just because the bus rides on rails, it doesn't mean that the people will suddenly become more fragrant, sober, or white.

 

Public transportation is available for the public (surprise!) to use.  This includes people who may not behave in ways that you wholly approve of.  I am not in favor of obnoxious or offensive behavior on a bus, but come on!  This lack of tolerance in our society is a big reason why public transit fails!

 

Great post, thank you for posting.

 

Maximillan's posts are really close to being a pointed attack on low-income or disadvantaged people. From your posts, you really have a disdain against people with disadvantages (e.g. the poor individual who is crapping himself probably has a bowel control issue, which often cannot be controlled without expensive medication), and you show no remorse for people with those issues. You also have this fantasy that every rider is drunk, or smokes cigarettes. Sorry, not everyone is perfect.

 

Public transport is for _everyone's_ use, not just yours Max. _Anyone_ can use public transport as long as they pay and are not rowdy, and I would rather see a drunk person on a bus rather than in a car. If you want the personal, absolute-clean touches of a car, then drive. Otherwise, suck it up or maybe do something about it (e.g. call the bus company, call the police on a rowdy teen, etc.).

 

I'm also not advocating drunken behavior, but if they smell of alcohol, who cares? They aren't in a car. Smells of cigarettes? Who cares? It's not illegal to smell _like_ cigarettes. Body odor? I hope that you don't work in an industry that requires you to sweat, and there are no showers (e.g. construction jobs, walking a distance in the sun to work, groceries, etc.).

 

Perhaps we should install breathlizers on busses? Hand out deodorants to all riders? Give breath mints and mouthwash to the cigarette smokers?

Everyone seems to forget that the same people who ride the bus are the same people who will be riding the streetcars!!!! 

Yea but a streetcar is not a bus, I LOVE streetcars and don't care for buses, I only ride them when I am desperate.  I don't care if a crackhead or your smelly hairy armpit sat next to me on the streetcar.  :-D 

>USE THE BACK DOOR TO EXIT.

 

I think people on a crowded bus don't think the driver sees them if they're trying to get out the back door. 

 

But this does illustrate a big advantage of the modern streetcars, that the loading and unloading is much faster and easier.  Also, with stops at bump-outs, the streetcar doesn't have to shift left to reenter traffic.  Buses could do this also but currently in downtown they don't.  This alone easily wastes 10-20 seconds repeatedly on a bus ride, adding minutes to even trips from downtown to UC.  Part of the problem too is that there are too many stops and the bus often stops for one person when that person could have gotten on or off one or two blocks in either direction.  Downtown buses typically have 2-3 stops between their origination point (government square or elsewhere) and Central Parkway.  Reduce that to one, reduce CP --> Liberty to one, reduce Liberty to the hill to one. 

 

I think that perhaps we should grow the f$&k up.

 

Just because some people don't make the same decisions as we do, it does not necessarily mean that they are 'at fault'.  Too many are obviously offended by the 'low class' decisions that some people make.  Would we like there to be a smell requirement that you have to pass in order to leave your house?  Or how about a law that you have to pass a breathalyser test to get on the Metro?  Even better, lets pass restrictions stating that the poor can no longer use public transportation!  

 

Most people who are 'at fault' are not trying to offend you or anyone else.  In fact, dirty looks and snide comments are far more offensive than someone who chooses to drink a beer before they get on a bus.  As a society, I think that it is time when we accept the fact that some people are different instead of judging everyone that we see.

 

Besides, why would anyone care if some people smell like pot/cigarettes/alcohol/body odor?  They aren't harming anyone.  In Cincinnati, most buses do not fill up.  If you are truly offended by someone's smell, move to another part of the bus.

 

Everyone seems to forget that the same people who ride the bus are the same people who will be riding the streetcars!!!!  Just because the bus rides on rails, it doesn't mean that the people will suddenly become more fragrant, sober, or white.

 

Public transportation is available for the public (surprise!) to use.  This includes people who may not behave in ways that you wholly approve of.  I am not in favor of obnoxious or offensive behavior on a bus, but come on!  This lack of tolerance in our society is a big reason why public transit fails!

 

Have you heard of such a notion as societal expectations? This is actually a very interesting example. Maximillian isn't attacking low income people. Max just has expectations given to him by his society of how one behaves in the public realm, and when he observes people breaking these expectations, it makes him uncomfortable. He is actually behaving exactly how he should, as this is one of the sociological fundamentals that both forms and maintains a society.

 

I want to quickly separate expectations of social behaviour from philisophical human rights. For instance, one may argue that it is a human right for people to pursue relationships with othres of the same gender, but it is a societal expectation that they do not screw on the sidewalk. It may be a human right to have an education regardless of your race, but it is a societal expectation that you buy your textbooks with money isntead of seashells.

 

This is a really important thing to understand as upper and midle class people across America's cities start to rediscover urban areas and the public realm. There ARE societal expectations about how one behaves in the public realm, and the consequence of breaking these expectations is social isolation.

 

So Maximillian is not "fucking immature" for his reaction. On the contrary, whether you like it or not, his reaction is actualy a NECESSARY part of our sociological system.

I don't know anybody pursuing a same sex relationship who would screw on the sidewalk an more than str8 couples would which is just as sick to watch as a public act. and since I hang out at gay bars I probably know alot more of them than you do. I've also never seen a minority person try to use seashells you racist heterosexist scum. now back to the point. if you don't want to ride the bus don't and when metro goes under people might pay for a superior form of public transportation like we all know we need. don't talk about your darwinistic philosophies from the dark ages of 'societal expectations', evolve

Remember when this thread was at least tangentially related to the Banks? Yeah, that was swell.

Geewiz  :-o I bring up the words "smelly bus" and it conjures up images of armegeddon(sp?) FYI Sizer, I did some yard work this morning with no deodorant and I let my hairy armpits breathe afterwards!  Now I know how nice it was for the girl on the bus and I have new respect. I will no longer rant about smelly hairy armpits or Drug abuser coming off his High and crapping themselves next to me on a full bus where I can't escape. Lets get back to the Banks Discussion.

god and I thought the people in NE ohio were a bunch of whiny off-topic fighting asshats.

 

Back on topic kids.

cincySAL -- if you're looking for parking near 3rd street and don't mind walking a little, you might try the East Garage.  I believe it's still $3.50/day. 

 

Thanks for the heads up.  I actually park in Lot D for $3/day and it's not a bad walk at all.  My only concern before was if they take out these lots for the Banks.  Where exactly is East Garage?  Is it by the so called Transit center?

 

 

It's at Broadway and Pete Rose Way--the pie-slice-shaped garage.  It's just a couple blocks up Broadway to 3rd Street (right at Queen City Square).  I think a fair amount of folks who work at the Atrium buildings work there. 

 

I've thought about biking but I own a mountain bike. 

 

I forgot that mountain bikes only work on mountains.

 

At $60/month for surface lot parking the break even point for a commuter/road bike is about 10 months.  Then you could both go to work and ride in the mountains surrounding Cincinnati.

 

But seriously, there are more options than $160/month garage parking or nothing.  Things are nowhere as bleak as you may think.

A hybrid bike, which is great for inner city commuting, costs very little (compared to a true road or true mountain bike). They are not as prone to flats and rim bending that riding over manholes and grates (unintentially, but things happen) will produce. You can easily recoup the costs by paying for parking elsewhere in the morning and biking in -- and doing other deeds, like grocery shopping, dining, etc. all on the bike -- then returning to the car for the trip home. A rack for the bike to hold groceries is not that much and very easy to install.

Why don't we just take all these posts into a new thread about riding the bus/alternatives to paying for parking? It doesn't belong here but it is an interesting subject.

Don't you see this is really all just a metaphor for what the downtown big-wigs are trying to do to the Banks development. Think harder. . .

I don't know anybody pursuing a same sex relationship who would screw on the sidewalk an more than str8 couples would which is just as sick to watch as a public act. and since I hang out at gay bars I probably know alot more of them than you do. I've also never seen a minority person try to use seashells you racist heterosexist scum. now back to the point. if you don't want to ride the bus don't and when metro goes under people might pay for a superior form of public transportation like we all know we need. don't talk about your darwinistic philosophies from the dark ages of 'societal expectations', evolve

 

Not only was every adorable tirade you threw at me right there completely the opposite of what I am, I was also instrumental in founding this website, and I think I'll pursue having you banned.

 

Have a great day!

 

:)

I've thought about biking but I own a mountain bike. 

 

I forgot that mountain bikes only work on mountains.

 

At $60/month for surface lot parking the break even point for a commuter/road bike is about 10 months.  Then you could both go to work and ride in the mountains surrounding Cincinnati.

 

But seriously, there are more options than $160/month garage parking or nothing.  Things are nowhere as bleak as you may think.

 

Thanks for the sarcasm.  I have a full out front suspension mountain bike.  And yes, two weeks ago I rode it from my house to downtown.  Took about an hour each way and frankly, was hard as hell.  Riding to work on that would not be feasible. 

 

I've never said there weren't any options other than $160/month.  Look at my posts, and read carefully.  My point was that they should indeed take parking into consideration when planning the banks.  Thats all.

My point was that they should indeed take parking into consideration when planning the banks.

 

Isn't the banks supposed to be built on top of parking garages?  Large ones, too.  I think they are taking parking into consideration.  This is why I'm confused when people say that the Banks will take parking away from downtown. 

There is an article on the 2nd page-5th post of this thread that says 4,400 plus parking spaces.

Yes...and I believe that the 1st phase will include around 1,000 spaces by itself.  Currently there are ZERO spaces where those 1,000 will be popping up.

And yet businesses will still complain somehow. Or find something else to poke at.

^ They finally came to the reality this project is happening!

 

 

My point was that they should indeed take parking into consideration when planning the banks.

 

Isn't the banks supposed to be built on top of parking garages?  Large ones, too.  I think they are taking parking into consideration.  This is why I'm confused when people say that the Banks will take parking away from downtown. 

 

I was just talking about during the construction.  I would assume they would remove the Lots by the bridge to build the underground garage.  Who knows how long that will take.

That's the thing...the first phase will introduce over 1,000 new parkings spaces.  This will easily accommodate any interim parking needed while the other surface lots are removed.

That's the thing...the first phase will introduce over 1,000 new parkings spaces.  This will easily accommodate any interim parking needed while the other surface lots are removed.

 

That's good to hear.  Where will those spaces be?  East of the surface lots (lot D)?

It will be in the dirt area east of the Freedom Center and west of GABP.  The parking lots don't start until further west, closer to PBS.  Therefore, phase one will be taking out zero parking spaces and adding over a 1,000 new spaces.  Granted some of those will be for the new residents, tenants and what not...but there will be some extra spaces.  That's what I would presume at least.

I don't totally buy the idea that the buses and streetcar will be competing. Most of the streetcar line will be in a small area which makes it incovenient to jump on a bus for, although I do see people getting on the bus for a block then getting off. Can't believe people will wait around to ride a block but there you go. Findlay Market for me is one of those places a hair too far to walk but too close to drive, I could ride the bus but like I said by time I wait for one I could have walked there. I'm going to loove the streetcar for getting around downtown.

The other thing people forget is visitors. These people will never ever get on a bus, but hey jump on a looping streetcar for a tour of the city, cool. And if they see something interesting they can get off and know in a few minutes another one will come by. No stressing about schedules, and sooner or later they will be right back where they started.

I've been riding the bus every day since April, I've seen(smelled) one or two smelly people but its really been a good experience so far. I love getting home and not being stressed from traffic.

ai enjoy riding the bus too, but I must say, it certainly has its frustrations...like the amount of stops on the 17 here in Cincy.  Its like every block, and every time one person gets off.  I just dont understand why there are so many stops.  I felt this way about the 2 in C-Bus, although to a lesser extent for sure. 

I love getting home and not being stressed from traffic

 

 

You are the third person I have heard that from this week.   

I would love to cut my 75 drive out of my life.    Stress-free would be an understatement.

Banks gets loan, but needs more

BY JOE WESSELS | CINCINNATI POST

October 20, 2007

 

DOWNTOWN - A multi million-dollar state loan will likely not be enough to get the long-delayed Banks riverfront project started by year's end.

 

Ohio Department of Development officials have announced the state will contribute $5.475 million in Urban Redevelopment Loan monies, interest-free for the first five years of the loan, and 3 percent for the remaining 10 years of the 15-year term. The money will be used to help fund the approximately $75.7 million parking structure needed to raise the project out of the flood plain, said Kimber Perfect, spokeswoman for the Ohio Department of Development...

 

 

Banks agreement ready to go

BY JESSICA BROWN | [email protected]

www.enquirer.com

 

After months of delays to iron out the legal details, a master development agreement for the Banks riverfront project – the document that will dictate how the project will work – is done.

 

The documents are to be unveiled at a Banks Working Group meeting at 9 a.m. Tuesday at Great American Ball Park.

 

The announcement will set the stage for a city/county vote on the project, perhaps as early as next week, and means the Banks could still be on track for an end-of-year groundbreaking – that is, if the city and county can figure out where their share of the financing will come from...

 

Banks development contract due Tuesday

Business Courier of Cincinnati - by Dan Monk Senior Staff Reporter

 

The advisory panel trying to finalize a master development agreement for the Banks riverfront project has scheduled a 9 a.m. meeting Tuesday - when it's expected to unveil a contract that could enable a Banks ground-breaking by year end.

 

At the same time, a group of downtown property owners has renewed its request for Cincinnati City Council to delay - and ultimately reject - the project. Following the Banks Working Group meeting, City Council's economic development committee is planning a public hearing on a zone change that would permit buildings of up to 30 stories in the area between Paul Brown Stadium and Great American Ball Park...

 

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2007/10/22/daily12.html

Development Agreement Approved For The Banks

Reported by: Tom McKee

Email: [email protected]

Reported by: Bill Price

Contributor: Ian Preuth

Last Update: 10:29 am

Slideshow

A Master Development Agreement has been approved by The Banks Working Group.

 

The vote came Tuesday morning during a public meeting at Great American Ball Park.

 

The next step is to have City Council and County Commissioners approve it. Officials are hoping this will be done before the November 6 elections.

 

More at:  http://www.wcpo.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=cc99c148-5a61-4001-ad8a-ebdf1344b66d

WOW!!! This is great news, right (or am I missing something)? Sounds like this thing is legitimately going to be built and begun in the very near future. 

Yes...as long as it is approved by the city/county.  I am still optimistic that it will pass through both before the Nov. 6th elections.

This is awesome!!!!  I really am considering moving downtown in the near future.

The Enquirer has reported that The Banks Working Group has put the height limit at 24 stories, instead of the 30 stories approved by Planning Commission.

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071023/NEWS01/310230041

 

Since it seems that there has been a compromise made on the building height...I expect that this will pass through both city/county votes before the elections.  They have been in discussions with those opposed to the 30 story height and with the developers.  I'm assuming this is a compromise that all parties are on board with.

When they say:

 

"The Development Agreement proposes a maximum building height of 24 stories, 20 occupied floors and four for parking."

 

Are those four floors of parking just the garages that will be under the entire site?  Or additional parking above that?  I'm envisioning the unsightly parking at One Riverfront Place in Newport (just across Washington Ave from NOTL), and I'd hate to see anything like that in The Banks.  Just trying to figure out if "floor one" will be at the current ground level or the post construction street level, I suppose.

 

 

^I would think they are under the proposed street level.

 

Not to be negative, but we should hold all applause until they begin slinging DIRT.  Most of us know the track history here, even though this is the most POSITIVE NEWS to come along in a while.

 

 

^I would think they are under the proposed street level.

 

Not to be negative, but we should hold all applause until they begin slinging DIRT.   Most of us know the track history here, even though this is the most POSITIVE NEWS to come along in a while.

 

Very true....but this is at least something positive.

 

Does anyone know how close the streetcar is suppose to run to the banks.  I think it would be smart to include the streetcar plan in the banks project.

It would probably be like the new Queen City Square building downtown. I believe it has a few floors of parking at the bottom of it, and has offices at the top. Its a good idea-- it lets people drive to work and also leaves room for building expansion and wont necessarily deter future rail initiatives.

When they say:

 

"The Development Agreement proposes a maximum building height of 24 stories, 20 occupied floors and four for parking."

 

Are those four floors of parking just the garages that will be under the entire site?  Or additional parking above that?  I'm envisioning the unsightly parking at One Riverfront Place in Newport (just across Washington Ave from NOTL), and I'd hate to see anything like that in The Banks.  Just trying to figure out if "floor one" will be at the current ground level or the post construction street level, I suppose.

 

Fairly certain it will be 'underground' -- so to speak. The Banks will be built essentially on parking structures due to the flood plain.

Yes the streetcar plan does connect the banks. In all it connects: The Banks, Govmt Square, Ftn Square, Aranoff Center, CAC, Findlay Market, Music Hall/Washington Park.

The bridges across Fort Washington Way at Walnut and Main were built with the streetcar in mind so thats where they'll cross. Everyone will be able to park in the northern CBD or OTR and ride the streetcar down to Great American and not have to fight all the traffic.

It would probably be like the new Queen City Square building downtown. I believe it has a few floors of parking at the bottom of it, and has offices at the top.

 

I think you're right about that, because I was driving past QCS on the expressway the other day and I could have sworn I spotted an SUV in one of the corner offices!  I figured I was just seeing things and dismissed it.  With all of the floors incased in glass windows, I wonder how they deal with fumes in the garage levels.  It's funny that I've driven past that building so many times and never noticed that until this week.