October 24, 200717 yr That four storys of above-grade parking (assuming they mean "above parking deck", as that will be the de-facto grade) needs to be carefully considered, or you'll have the visual of towers on top of parking garages. I would think there would be enough controls to prevent that. Preferably the above grade parking would be masked somehow.
October 25, 200717 yr Preferably the above grade parking would be masked somehow. You don't need to worry about that...they will be hidden.
October 25, 200717 yr Preferably the above grade parking would be masked somehow. You don't need to worry about that...they will be hidden. I thought the four floors would be under the existing street level?
October 25, 200717 yr There will be parking underneath that will lift it out of the flood plain, but there will also be additional parking above grade to help with the parking needs of the development. The below grade parking is not enough for all that it is serving. A good portion of that parking is set aside to serve some of the offices along 3rd street, as well as, PBS and GABP. There will be some left over in the below grade for the new stuff at The Banks, but not enough to cover the whole development...therefore there is a need for some above grade parking structures.
October 25, 200717 yr ^ Glad I'm not the only one who was confused about that. It really plays into the bigger issue of height as well. How tall is 24 stories? Are we measuring from the dirt or from 2nd street? Obviously, a 24 story building on 5th street would already be "taller" than the same building if it were built at The Banks, due to the elevation difference between 5th & 2nd streets. But if they're measuring from the dirt, the difference would be even greater, making the arguments about height all the more ridiculous. But it sounds like Rando is right, and that the parking they're referring to is above grade. It's just confusing because "4 levels of parking" mentioned in that article is about how much I assumed the below grade garages to hold. That translates into a lot more parking than I expected, though.
October 25, 200717 yr I'm hoping that the proximity to the Underground Railroad Freedom Center and Paul Brown Stadium will up the architectural ante a little. I think that the Freedom Center has a very unique, incredibly interesting look to it, and PBS is on par with the best pro-sports facilities in the country, both aesthetically and functionally. I'm not trying to leave GABP out in the cold here; it's a great ball park, but I genuinely think these other two are exceptional modern structures. And that's to say nothing of the Suspension Bridge on the south side of the site, which is borderline iconic. Hopefully when the architects view the site and see what will be framing The Banks, they'll realize that whatever they design has to be more than some vanilla, cookie-cutter development, because that would look awkward and totally out of place. Another way of looking at this is that the Banks can afford to be vanilla because that area already has so many interesting structures (PBS, Suspension Bridge, Freedom Center, GAPB). Hopefully they will see it your way.
October 25, 200717 yr thought this picture was interesting. Mainly because of the photo in the background, an original rendering from back in the day I believe. Look how there are red boxes around the office towers included in that rendering that do not exist yet. I wonder why they would have that up or what they would typically discuss about such things. odd....
October 25, 200717 yr BUT...not every building is going to be 24 stories, and obviously the area over the Freedon Center will have sight lines, so I think the question of height is a deversion by the opposition. If they are so worried about it, they should front some money to make sure it doesn't happen by constructing their own buildings. The arguement about gutting CBD is valid because businesses are hungry for class A office space. Look how fast the Queen City Sqquare building filled. But the fact is those tenants will move one way or the other. Will they go to the Banks? Covington? to Mason? Thats the question.
October 25, 200717 yr well if the office space in the banks fills up nice and the existing cbd suffers as a result, say hello to more apt/condo conversions ala that one building...you know the one.
October 25, 200717 yr Looking at the model...there's no cap over the highway but the hideous fake cable-stayed bridge towers have been removed!
October 25, 200717 yr This the e-mail I sent to Joseph Trouth who represents some downtown business concerns. Joseph Trouth Dear Mr. Trauth I read your comments about the concerns of some downtown Cincinnati business interests that the revised plans for the Banks would seriously jeopardize the central business district so that it would possibly "dry up" and blow away." Development in Cincinnati is not a zero-sum game. The largely ULTRA CONSERVATIVE business community should not expect that exciting and progressive development at the Banks will hurt the rest of downtown. If they feel that this potentially could be the case, I have a suggestion: BUILD SOMETHING!! For over 10 years downtown Cincinnati has been stagnent when it comes to vitalizing the area, with a few exceptions. FINALLY, after being on the drawing boards for over 10 years it appears that Queen City Square Phase II will be constructed. The rest of the business community should "walk the talk" rather than complain about potential developement along the riverfront! Regards, Jack Geis
October 25, 200717 yr Looking at the model...there's no cap over the highway but the hideous fake cable-stayed bridge towers have been removed! Something that seems to be forgotten...I haven't seen much discussion lately of the caps and what the likelihood and/or time line of those would be. Could Banks development spur this? FLOODWALL: I got to thinking about this. The garages raise the structures out of the flood plain. Will the new CRFP require/lend a new floodwall immediately south of T Berry Way? The current one exists as 2nd Street, right? It would be neat to see a quick PS redline of where the current and new floodwall exists...knowing that GABP and PBS constitute part of this. So in other words: If we had a 70' crest, what would be the new shoreline? I imagine there would be some weird considerations both west of PBS and east of GABP.
October 25, 200717 yr The capping is separate and will require funding from different sources. Look to ODOT and primarily the Cincinnati Park Board for funding for this...and as of right now the parks board is focused on the Central Riverfront Park.
October 25, 200717 yr I didn't realize those caps were still under consideration. I'm guessing that they'd just be grass covered squares, because I can't imagine we could build on them. So we'd basically have a few new parks. Green space is always welcome in a major city, but do you think this would be worth the expense, given that the impressive Central Riverfront Park will be only 3 blocks away? Or is there another use for these caps that I'm unaware of?
October 25, 200717 yr If nothing else they would help in terms of aesthetics. Even after all the improvements, the way FWW just slices through and cuts off CBD from the Riverfront still makes me sad. Just throw some statues/fountains/gardens or what have you on them and call it good. Fountains would actually be really cool, though expensive, I'm sure. If there is a way to pull that off without compromising the clearance of the expressway below, that would be a nice addition.
October 25, 200717 yr City, county leaders expect OK on Banks BY JANE PRENDERGAST & JESSICA BROWN | CINCINNATI ENQUIRER October 25, 2007 With a week to go before Cincinnati and Hamilton County officials are scheduled to vote on the Banks plan, leaders of both governments say they have the votes needed to pass it - a claim backed up by an informal Enquirer survey... WHERE CITY COUNCIL STANDS ON THE BANKS PROPOSAL Council Member / Banks vote / Quote Jeff Berding / Likely yes / "I'm very pleased we got it done. I have a number of questions and I'm looking forward to the presentation. But am I very positive? Yes." Chris Bortz / Likely yes / "It's six inches thick. I want to spend some time reading it. But yes, I expect to be supportive." Laketa Cole / Likely yes / "I do have some questions as far as the financing. But overall, I'm confident that they can get the job done." John Cranley / Yes / "I've read it, I've looked at it, I like it." David Crowley / Likely yes / "I just picked up this 500-page report today and I want to spend some time reading it. But generally, I want to do it. I want to see it happen." Leslie Ghiz / Yes / "I'm good with it. Absolutely." Chris Monzel / Undecided / "I know how I'm leaning, but I just want to make sure no other shoe drops after our meeting next week." Roxanne Qualls / Undecided / "I think that at this point, in fairness to myself, the citizens and the project, I first need to read the 500 pages." Cecil Thomas / Undecided / "I don't know yet. I want to read this report first." WHERE HAMILTON COUNTY COMMISSIONERS STAND Commissioner / Banks vote / Quote Pat DeWine -- Out of town/couldn't be reached David Pepper / Declined to comment / "I'm inclined to support it, but I'm going to take time to go through every last detail. I feel good about the package that has been put together. I just want to make sure all the i's are dotted and the t's are crossed. I'm not going to say how I'm going to vote until I (do)." Todd Portune / Yes / "I intend to support the agreement. I encourage everyone else to as well. It's one of the more thoroughly scrutinized documents we'll ever get and it's time for everyone to say yes. In addition to all the benefits, we're a revenue partner with the developer on this, so we've got every incentive to make it work."
October 25, 200717 yr Wow! Putting the caps over the highway would be awesome! Even if they where just grass. I've said this a million times, but I can't wait until I come back from living in Bermuda for 2 years to see how downtown has progressed. My wife and I keep talking about living downtown when we come back in 2010.
October 25, 200717 yr ^ Are you crazy??? I mean, I love Cincinnati and all, but you should be looking forward to spending 2 years in Bermuda, not coming back to Cincy. :roll:
October 25, 200717 yr ^Well that's the thing......we where debaiting on wether or not we should move back to Cincinnati, or somewhere else like Philly or Baltimore, etc.....but after living in Cincy for 5 years I've grown to like it hear. 5 years ago, I would have told you that I probably would only live in cincy for 2 years at the most. My how things have changed!
October 25, 200717 yr Damn, you're in Bermuda, how do I get a gig like that? lol ... Hook a brother up with a place to stay and you're in!
October 25, 200717 yr How's this, when our condo @Parker Flats is done, we'll swap homes for a week. You can try out downtown living and we can try out the Bermuda thing.
October 26, 200717 yr I'm sure that people will somehow find a way to blame this on the politicians and city government...who is slowing this project down now? If latest Banks plan gets OK, two lawsuits likely to follow BY DAN MONK | CINCINNATI BUSINESS COURIER October 26, 2007 DOWNTOWN - If city and county officials approve the Banks project at a special joint legislative session next week, an attorney for downtown property owners predicted that not one but two lawsuits will be filed. "If it is passed in its present form, lawsuits are extremely likely," said Joe Trauth, a Keating Muething & Klekamp partner who has been lobbying council to delay action. "There are many people in our group contemplating that type of action."...
October 26, 200717 yr Wait a minute, how can they file a lawsuit on the taxpayers behalf if we all want the Banks built? They should have to get it on a ballot and let us vote on it before suing for us. Lets file a lawsuit on the taxpayers behalf suing Keating Muething & Klekamp, American Financial Group Inc., Mayerson Co. and Western & Southern Financial Group for holding all this up and for also being d!@kheads.
October 26, 200717 yr The Banks: higher density will change 'feel' of the new neighborhood By Nique Swan, Cincinnati Enquirer, October 26, 2007 For more than a decade, Cincinnati has held onto the vision of The Banks as a front door that would do more than add curb appeal to our city. It would be the entry to a vibrant new neighborhood connecting resident and visitors with shopping, cultural attractions, workplaces, sporting arenas, parks and our beautiful riverfront. It would be an open door to a pedestrian-friendly space with a serious "cool" factor, not your typical downtown scene. That was the plan, anyway. Ten years and tens of millions of dollars later, the plan has shifted. The new thought - and it is just a thought, not the plan the city approved with residents' input in 2000 - increases the amount of office space by 500 percent. It increases the density of the project by 100 percent. It cuts the proportion of retail space while increasing both the height of the buildings and number of "towers" allowed. It changes the look, the feel and the character of the project... Nique Swan is a resident of Downtown.
October 26, 200717 yr tell that to the lawyers that argued Brown v. Board of Education Conflict of interest...therefore your comments can not be heard. :-D
October 26, 200717 yr tell that to the lawyers that argued Brown v. Board of Education They are still a 21st century SCUM! They sit around thinking of what they can flood our already packed legal system with next! Oh, you burned yourself with that coffee from MD's. No label Let's Sue! Oh, you were shot while trying to steal from your neighbor. Let's Sue! Oh, you want to provide economic redevelopment in a rustbelt city. Let's Sue! Oh, you want to live your life by the Constitution Of America. Yeah right! I am having flashbacks of the final scene in "Devils Advocate." ONE of Pacino's finest roles! :wink:
October 26, 200717 yr These potential lawsuits suck! This means that the whole project could be delayed by another 4-5 years. What shame. I say we flood the lawyers office with emails and letters. Let's start a petition, maybe even a rally on fountain square!
October 26, 200717 yr Lets not get off track and lawyer bash, they have crushing student loans to pay off so show some compassion. meanwhile during the lawsuit we can walk down and admire the big mudhole.
October 26, 200717 yr Isn't the on company that's threatening lawsuit (Western Southern I believe) the same people that want to build QCSII. If so, go figure.
October 26, 200717 yr ^ and they own the rights to some surface lots around the city as well... notably 5th and Race.. The city should cut ties with these ass-clowns.
October 26, 200717 yr It really is stupid. Whoever has the money now, whoever has the tenants now should just build. And if there is no need for commercial highrise in 5 years because of this, so be it. You should not be able to say, Oh....well I had plans, and now they're ruining them. WHat am I going to do. Well, you snooze, you lose. How stupid. Maybe I'm for off in left field on this, but this is the way it reads.
October 26, 200717 yr These are the same jerks that would do something like this and then try to put up a defense when someone accuses Cincinnati of not being progressive. What's that I hear? Progress and construction in NoKY... What a novel thing... If there weren't so much sour grapes by WS et al., we might have a good city to pass on to our children. /rant
October 26, 200717 yr Isn't the on company that's threatening lawsuit (Western Southern I believe) the same people that want to build QCSII. If so, go figure. and they own the rights to some surface lots around the city as well... notably 5th and Race.. Good catches, guys.
October 26, 200717 yr I want to know why everyone is throwing their arms up at the "Banks" people when Western Southern wants to construct something 15 stories taller than any of their proposals. And as far as the quote in the editorial from the person above; "Let's create something that's in the long-term best interests of Greater Cincinnati, not a short-term fix just to get the backhoes rolling. Let's do what's right, not what's expedient." well, this really isn't a short term fix. It's not like the "Banks" project was announced 7 mos ago, try probably 7 years agop. It is time to get rolling, and there is someone who wants to get it rolling. I am from Cleveland, but have been following this project somewhat closely to see how it evolves. Many hurdles like Cleveland projects. I'm starting to think that the Good ol' Boys run the entire state of Ohio.
October 26, 200717 yr I want to know why everyone is throwing their arms up at the "Banks" people when Western Southern wants to construct something 15 stories taller than any of their proposals. And as far as the quote in the editorial from the person above; Well its not really "everybody" it is essentially just those that have a conflict of interest. Western & Southern has had various developments on the books for years and has dragged their feet at actually building them. Now someone else has come in and is ready to build now...so they are feeling a little threatened. The others involved mainly consists of those who will lose their pristine views from their 4th Street offices.
October 26, 200717 yr Like I said, everyone who's view is threatened,pony up to the table and be part of the solution. Build your own building or invest some money so they don't block the view. And no one has said they will build something that big, they just want the option. And Nique Swan, the reason the plan changed is doesn't make economic sense to build what was planned in 2000. Thats why nothing has happened, they needed to go bigger to justify the investment. The more private investment the less the public has to pony up.
October 26, 200717 yr What's that I hear? Progress and construction in NoKY... Let's not derail this thread _again_ with a NOKY and Cincinnati argument. Cincinnati has its fair share of new development projects, as does NOKY, and there is no need for this nonsense... again.
October 27, 200717 yr Western & Southern Financial Group always welcomes your questions and feedback. For quick and easy reference, our Contact Us page lists mailing addresses, phone/fax numbers and Web site addresses for Western & Southern Financial Group and its family of companies. WESTERN & SOUTHERN FINANCIAL GROUP Mailing Address: 400 Broadway Cincinnati, OH 45202 Phone: 800.936.1212 Fax: 513.629.1220 Web site: http://www.westernsouthern.com Eagle Realty Group, LLC Mailing Address: 421 East Fourth Street Cincinnati, OH 45202 Phone: 800.361.7234 Fax: 513.361.7778 Web site: http://www.eaglerealtygroup.com
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October 27, 200717 yr Keating Muething & Klekamp PLL One East Fourth Street Suite 1400 Cincinnati, Ohio 45202 Tel: (513) 579-6400 http://www.kmklaw.com Trauth, Jr., Joseph L. Partner (513) 579-6515 [email protected]
October 27, 200717 yr ohio1221, so do all these guys have an official position and what have they laid out as the solution? The "we were here first" stand seems immature. I would like to hear what they feel is the best solution to the issue that could get the Banks moving in the quickest amount of time. Except for Keating & Co, the others are all financial and real estate firms, they should be able to put something together. Or is it as I suspect that they want the Banks(and the rest of the CBD it seems) to stay exactly as they are.
October 27, 200717 yr 5chw4r7z, have you thought about the impact this will have on your future property value when this thing gets built? Crazy stuff.
October 27, 200717 yr Park board gives OK to Banks plan October 26, 2007 | CINCINNATI BUSINESS COURIER DOWNTOWN - The board of commissioners for Cincinnati Parks gave its approval Friday to the Banks development agreement, which includes a 40-acre riverfront park. The Parks board voted unanimously to approve the agreement, but expressed concern that sufficient money be included to maintain the park after it is developed...
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