October 28, 200717 yr I can't say what their "official position " would be, except to say they don't want the development to proceed with the current plan if they are planning to bring a lawsuit. I posted that info for anyone who would like to contact those companies to voice their opinion. ohio1221, so do all these guys have an official position and what have they laid out as the solution? The "we were here first" stand seems immature. I would like to hear what they feel is the best solution to the issue that could get the Banks moving in the quickest amount of time. Except for Keating & Co, the others are all financial and real estate firms, they should be able to put something together. Or is it as I suspect that they want the Banks(and the rest of the CBD it seems) to stay exactly as they are.
October 29, 200717 yr The title of this article is ridiculous, how do you "rush" after so many years? Why the rush on Banks? BY JESSICA BROWN | [email protected] So is this the week the Banks project finally clears bureaucratic and political hurdles and moves toward a groundbreaking? City Council and county commissioners have scheduled votes this week on the riverfront project. Approval by both governments would clear the way for developers to break ground in the first quarter of 2008... If you go Today, 10 a.m. at City Hall, 801 Plum St. Joint meeting of Cincinnati City Council's finance and economic development committees. Purpose: Presentation of the Banks agreements by the Banks Working Group. There will be an opportunity for questions. Tuesday 1 p.m., Duke Energy Center, 525 Elm St. Joint Meeting of Hamilton County Commission and Cincinnati City Council Purpose: Presentation of the Banks agreements by the Banks Working Group. There will be an opportunity for questions. No vote will be taken. Thursday, 1 p.m., National Underground Railroad Freedom Center, 50 E. Freedom Way. Concurrent special sessions of the Hamilton County Commission and Cincinnati City Council Purpose: Approval of the Banks agreements. http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071029/NEWS01/710290318/1077/COL02
October 29, 200717 yr What's that I hear? Progress and construction in NoKY... Let's not derail this thread _again_ with a NOKY and Cincinnati argument. Cincinnati has its fair share of new development projects, as does NOKY, and there is no need for this nonsense... again. You're right...I could have just as easily inserted West Chester for NoKY. Cincinnati Mayor Mark Mallory and Hamilton County Commission president Todd Portune say they expect the project will be approved. But the governments will face vocal opposition from business leaders, who claim the project is too big and will hurt the downtown business district. But a group of influential downtown building owners thinks recent changes increasing the density and maximum building height of the project will hurt their businesses. So which is it? I wish I could sue my competitor every time they did something to "hurt" my business. My gosh, only in Cincinnati could a $1 Billion/once in a generation project be allowed to be labeled as a hurt to the CBD. Let's mobilize!
October 29, 200717 yr Anyone can make any kind of ridiculous claim that they want...that doesn't mean that it is valid or that it has much substance. I'm not a lawyer, but I doubt that this promised lawsuit will hold any water in the court of law. It just seems silly.
October 29, 200717 yr It's just a scare tactic to drum up negative sentiment for this project in front of the looming election. They know they can't actually win. They're hoping that the threat of a long drawn-out lawsuit will make potential funding scatter. The best thing Cincy can do is just ignore them and keep pressing on. And I just love this bit: "After 10 years of deliberate planning, why is there now such a rush?" Three years of deliberate planning, maybe. But certainly not ten. Does he really think no one remembers everything that has gone on in this city for the last decade? Here's to putting that all behind us and moving forward with The Banks, the streetcar, and anything else that will bring people back into the urban core.
October 29, 200717 yr the only real problem with a lawsuit would be an injunction that prevents construction.
October 29, 200717 yr The banks developers are meeting today in a joint session City Council's finance and economic development committees. The session is scheduled to last most of the day today. I heard on 91.7 that there have been a number of interesting questions posed by committee members which address parking, density, use mix, and impact to adjacent neighborhoods. Is there anyway to get a transcript of this hearing? I think it would be interesting to find out what questions are asked and who asked them. I would rather spend hours reading a transcript of what really happened than relying on media outlets (i.e. The Enquirer) to recap the events.
October 29, 200717 yr 'Eatertainment'? BY JANE PRENDERGAST http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071029/NEWS01/310290049/-1/rss Almost 90 minutes into today’s Cincinnati City Council meeting to discuss The Banks, came a key question. Councilman John Cranley, hosting the meeting as chairman of council’s finance committee, asked: “Tell me exactly when I can have a beer at an ESPN Zone next to Great American Ball Park.” Hopefully early 2010, responded Trent Germano, with Carter & Associates Commercial Services, one of the companies developing the riverfront project. He said he hoped to have an ESPN Zone-type restaurant, or a Fox Sports Grill...
October 29, 200717 yr "As for possible retailers, Germano said he didn’t forsee stores like Ann Taylor or The Gap – “The Banks is not that to us.” He said he hopes, instead, for an urban grocery store and “eatertainment” spots. They also plan, he said, for a couple of upscale restaurants." Good. Nothing that sucks more than having a lot of stores that close at 9 PM and don't really add much to a neighborhood. "$1,000 for a smaller unit of about 700 square feet, and up to about $1,600 a month." That's expensive? I pay $700 for a ~700 sq. ft. efficency in downtown Lexington, although being along the Ohio River in a much larger city smack dab between two stadiums and near a proposed park should be much higher.
October 29, 200717 yr "As for possible retailers, Germano said he didn’t forsee stores like Ann Taylor or The Gap – “The Banks is not that to us.” He said he hopes, instead, for an urban grocery store and “eatertainment” spots. They also plan, he said, for a couple of upscale restaurants." Good. Nothing that sucks more than having a lot of stores that close at 9 PM and don't really add much to a neighborhood. "$1,000 for a smaller unit of about 700 square feet, and up to about $1,600 a month." Siecer, I don't disagree w/ you but I would like to see some of these types of stores downtown. I think Cincy has done a great job revilaizing much of downtown/OT as far as entertainment and fresendential. I think shopping is the next step to address. That's expensive? I pay $700 for a ~700 sq. ft. efficency in downtown Lexington, although being along the Ohio River in a much larger city smack dab between two stadiums and near a proposed park should be much higher
October 29, 200717 yr I think shopping will be the last thing to come back downtown (at least in the kind of shops you get at Rookwood). I'd rather see them reach for a couple of fashion forward shops that tend to be in downtowns. H&M comes to mind. There is too much retail in the world as it is. The urban grocery style is probably the most important.
October 29, 200717 yr "While officials within city government discuss the possibility of intentionally ‘downsizing’ the city to address mass vacancies, demolitions and disinvestment . . . " This line caught my attention. Hmmm OTR group sees Banks as harmful BY JESSICA BROWN | [email protected] A non-profit organization dedicated to redeveloping Over-the-Rhine is opposing the riverfront project because they fear it will hurt revitalization efforts in their community. The “timing and magnitude” of the Banks are a problem, said Over-the-Rhine Foundation Executive Director Michael Morgan in a letter to Cincinnati City Council and copied to The Enquirer. To read more: http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071029/NEWS01/310290046
October 30, 200717 yr As far as the banks hurting OTR I'm going to have to disagree. I feel like OTR is very unique and attracts a different person than the banks. The Banks also, in my eyes, is an attempt to steal empty nesters from the suburban areas. If anything i think the Banks will help both OTR and the CBD by changing the perception of downtown.
October 30, 200717 yr I agree, there is no way they are competing with each other. The businesses needing class A office space will never in a million years move to OTR. BUT once the street car is built they will complement each other greatly and I think the Banks will help OTR develop.
October 30, 200717 yr and people living in OTR aren't the key demo that the banks is trying to attract. having a few thousand extra people within a long walk or a short streetcar ride from OTR will only help
October 30, 200717 yr I agree. The Banks is going to primarily be serving suburbanites, yuppies, and empty nesters who own condos. It will probably have instant success because it will be brand new. These people will shop at the Gap and eat at ESPN Zone. OTR is in the process of becoming the 'cool' underground alternative neighborhood in which many artists and progressive intellectuals reside in. These people will shop at small little boutiques and eat at non-chain coffee shops. One will not be better than the other. They are simply different lifestyles and different tastes. Couldn't have said it better myself.
October 30, 200717 yr I don't think I've heard of another single potential tenant as much as ESPN Zone...sounds like we can take it to The Banks. lol Council cool with Banks BY JANE PRENDERGAST | CINCINNATI ENQUIRER October 29, 2007 DOWNTOWN - After a six-hour meeting Monday, Cincinnati City Council voted unanimously to go ahead with The Banks riverfront development, a move more than a decade in the making. But the key detail many people want to know is this: if all goes as planned, you can have a beer at a new Banks bar or restaurant in fewer than three years... Tata, Banks win state development grants October 29, 2007 | CINCINNATI BUSINESS COURIER DOWNTOWN - The Banks riverfront project and a planned facility by an Indian information technology firm won grants from the Ohio Department of Development, Lt. Gov. Lee Fisher announced Monday. Tata America International Corp., doing business as TCS America, was awarded a $2.5 million Rapid Outreach Grant for costs related to the acquisition and remodeling of a building in Miami Township, Clermont County. The company, headquartered in Mumbai, India, recently announced it will open a North American delivery center in more than 150,000 square feet at the James River Corp.'s former building at the Ridgewood Corporate Center. The $20 million project is expected to create 1,000 jobs...
October 30, 200717 yr Councilwoman Roxanne Qualls asked what other anticipated return the city could expect on its $26 million investment, such as in increased earnings taxes. “Or is this actually the city acting out of the generosity of its heart?” No such analysis has been done, City Manager Milton Dohoney said, but “we would view this as the top capital priority” for the city and an investment in Cincinnati’s future that will spur additional jobs, revenue and development. Our city has no analysis for what our top capital priority is? I think that this is an important project that will put a new face on the city, add a new front door and put 40 acres of dynamic green space in the urban core, but two questions. One, is the city only investing $26 million? I thought the public infrastructure requirements were on the order of 200 mil, and two, why is no one (in th general public) batting an eye about an expenditure of 200 million dollars?
October 30, 200717 yr The actual City of Cincinnati is only contributing a portion. The rest of that infrastructure cost is being covered by federal and state grants, plus some county money. That is part of the reason why this has been so difficult...$200M is no chump change.
October 30, 200717 yr I don't think I've heard of another single potential tenant as much as ESPN Zone...sounds like we can take it to The Banks. lol Ding! Ding! Ding! The Banks vs. Ovation, in the battle for an ESPN Zone. I gotta believe Cincy wins this fight. :-D In all seriousness though, I'd love to have an ESPN Zone between those stadiums. Those places are awesome, and it's just freaking cool to see ESPN broadcasts done from inside that building. The fact that the vote went through 9-0 today is amazing news. A strong statement that the city is finally ready to build. Bortz and Mallory continue to impress me; the former with his big ideas and willingness to compromise to make something happen, the latter with his ability to sell the city and the projects that are in its best interests. Qualls? Well, I'm left scratching my head. I can't decide if she's hedging on these projects because she's trying to be as "electable" as possible or if her concerns are genuine, but she must realize on some level that it's now or never on these things. If somehow The Banks and the streetcar fall through simultaneously, it will be a disasterous missed opportunity for the city, so her caution on both of these key developments is doing nothing but making me nervous.
October 30, 200717 yr The actual City of Cincinnati is only contributing a portion. The rest of that infrastructure cost is being covered by federal and state grants, plus some county money. That is part of the reason why this has been so difficult...$200M is no chump change. "Of the up to $200 million in public money, $106 million will be used for street improvements, utilities and to build parking garages. The garages will be a platform for the rest of the project and will raise it out of the level of the flood plain. The rest ($80 plus million) will be used for the riverfront park. Of the $106 million, $27 million will come from as yet unspecified grants, according to county officials; $10 million will come from the developers, $26 million will come from the city, $21 million will come from the county. The remaining $22 million will come from tax increment financing, according to Eric Stuckey, an assistant county administrator. The city has already set aside $17.5 million in its existing budget to put toward its $26 million chunk of the project. Any cost overruns or funding gaps would be shouldered jointly by the city and county."
October 30, 200717 yr "I don't want to live in lesser downtown on Seventh Street" - sheesh. http://www.wlwt.com/news/14451448/detail.html Council Will Vote Thursday On Banks Proposal POSTED: 5:20 pm EDT October 29, 2007 UPDATED: 7:48 pm EDT October 29, 2007 CINCINNATI -- A long-stalled development plan appears to be a done deal. City officials spent seven hours Monday examining many aspects of the Banks development plan, and City Council will vote Thursday on the development plan offered by Carter-Dawson. Council members voted 9-0 to register their decision on the plan, just days before voters will fill nine seats from among 20 candidates...
October 30, 200717 yr Lesser downtown on 7th St.? Hmm, guess you'll have to move won't you? Ms. Rice's digs at the Shillito aren't exactly ghetto. I don't know what she pays but there are units in the $1200 - 1700 range at the Shillito. Throw in a view of the river and whats that worth?
October 30, 200717 yr ^ That was a strange quote considering there are a lot of nice places on 7th Street. I am curious is that was her whole quote or a chopped-down version of it.
October 30, 200717 yr just think shes saying it would become 'lesser' if tthe banks is built for the rich only...aka beverly hills as she put it. she just doesnt want the focus to totslly shift towards the banks. shes not knocking 7th street.
October 30, 200717 yr Why this obsession with an ESPN Zone? It's like wanting a Planet Hollywood or Hard Rock. I'm all for a killer sports bar down there, it's a natural fit. But espn zone.... Eh.
October 30, 200717 yr I didnt take it that Clara was knocking 7th because its pretty cool. It sounded to me like she didn't want 7th to turn into last seasons outfit. You know, everyone keeps beating the drum for it not being expensive. Guess what, any new construction is going to be more expensive. Hey if the streetcar was in place I would totaly jump on 12th and Vine right now becasue you can get in for under 150k, BUT you can't see the river. I'm thinking a river view in an apartment has to be worth 500 or so a month, just because everyone will want it.
October 30, 200717 yr Why this obsession with an ESPN Zone? It's like wanting a Planet Hollywood or Hard Rock. I'm all for a killer sports bar down there, it's a natural fit. But espn zone.... Eh. National exposure Besides, we need people who bring in a lot of revenue and can afford to stay there a while. The last thing we need is vacant space giving nay-sayers a reason to talk crap about the banks. I TOLD YOU SO! Everything is in Newport! Blah blah blah.
October 30, 200717 yr I guess my hatred for all things ESPN has colored my view of it. Taking on two capital projects that will cost $50+ million is going to be tough on the capital budget... If the city had to make the tough decision, which is more important: the Banks or the streetcar?
October 30, 200717 yr I guess my hatred for all things ESPN has colored my view of it. If you've never been, it really is cool. I've only been to the one in Atlanta, but it is basically a bunch of nice tables and recliners in a room with enormous TVs. One is for the "best" game, and is about the same size as a movie screen. The others are 36" TVs (I think), and every table has it's own speaker, so you can listen to any game you want, or switch audio if another game looks more interesting. I would be a perfect place to watch college football on a saturday afternoon, especially if you're interested in a game that doesn't feature a local team. It's very different than a standard sports bar. I think two sports bars could survive down there anyway, as long as the other one is more traditional. Taking on two capital projects that will cost $50+ million is going to be tough on the capital budget... If the city had to make the tough decision, which is more important: the Banks or the streetcar? I'm going to have to go with the streetcar here. Yeah, we've waited a long time for The Banks. But the streetcar will set off development all over CBD and OTR, and since it touches The Banks site on the southernmost part of it's route, it might jumpstart that project as well. Also, we've been waiting for rail transit since the subway was cancelled in the 1930s, much longer than our wait for The Banks. We lost our shot at light rail back in 2002, but if this thing is as successful as I think it will be, light rail could be back in the discussion 10 years from now. Thankfully, it looks like we won't have to choose, but if we did, I'd go with the streetcar.
October 30, 200717 yr Taking on two capital projects that will cost $50+ million is going to be tough on the capital budget... If the city had to make the tough decision, which is more important: the Banks or the streetcar? The Banks only because it has been so drawn out. Failure to get it done now will most likely kill the chances of anything happening there for years to come because it would have that stigma attached to it. ^The above argument is contrary to basic economics. The sunk costs involved in the years of planning for the Banks project are not relevant to Cramer's question, since they exist regardless of whatever options are chosen 1) do both, 2) do the Banks at the cost of the streetcar, 3) do the streetcar at the cost of the Banks, 4) do neither. With all of these choices, the former planning and deal-making that has been going on for the past ten years is already a spent cost that cannot be retrieved. The only relevant question is, if a choice must be made between the two, which of the two would have the greatest economic impact. In my opinion, the streetcar is far more important than the Banks (and a pre-existing streetcar would, I believe, strengthen a future Banks construction). Imagine it this way- it's 1985 and you've been doing 3 months of planning on whether you should invest $5,000 in AT&T or GE. Right before you decide, this buddy of yours tells you about this new company called Microsoft that his numbers show will be a killer investment. Should you dismiss his suggestion for the simple reason that you've already spent 3 months doing all this research on the other two companies? It's admittedly a crude example, but do you get it?
October 30, 200717 yr I think that the two can be done simultaneously...but I'd have to say that the streetcar helps out The Banks project. I'm not so sure The Banks does very much for a streetcar system.
October 30, 200717 yr the banks helps the streetcar by putting a few thousand potential riders within a block of the line and adding new destinations along the route.
October 30, 200717 yr Would you like to design the Banks? BY JESSICA BROWN | [email protected] If the Banks agreements are approved Thursday, the next step will likely come quickly. Banks developers say they will be prepared to advertise for an architect on Monday to design the first phase of the project, which will initially include 300 apartments and a retail strip. "We have a (request for proposals) and plan to send it out on Monday to engage the first firm to design the first phase," said Bailey Pope, vice president of design and construction for the Harold A. Dawson Company... www.enquirer.com
October 30, 200717 yr I posed this question a few weeks ago and I don't believe there was a response. W/ this new agreement, are the design plans we all saw in April still being used? If they are sending out RFP's to architects, I assume the prior plans are meaningless.
October 30, 200717 yr ^ I was just wondering the same thing. I thought they had the plans for phase 1 already. I'm guessing that what we saw was just conceptual, giving us a feel for the development. The plans for the actual buildings probably aren't finished yet, this would be a very expensive and labor-intensive process to design each building for a project that isn't guaranteed yet. And I'm sure there's time to design the specific buildings while the garages are under construction.
October 30, 200717 yr Opposition to Banks fading BY JESSICA BROWN | CINCINNATI ENQUIRER October 30, 2007 DOWNTOWN - As Hamilton County commissioners and Cincinnati City Council prepare to vote Thursday on the Banks project, it appears the most vocal opposition has faded away. [glow=yellow,2,300]A group of downtown building owners which has for weeks been lobbying against certain aspects of the project, said today they feel their concerns have been, or will eventually be addressed...[/glow]
October 30, 200717 yr Damn Randy, you beat me to this today :) Definitely great news for The Banks. Now if we can take care of that OTR group... :)
October 30, 200717 yr "A group of downtown building owners which has for weeks been lobbying against certain aspects of the project, said today they feel their concerns have been, or will eventually be addressed." Ah... and with a strong 9-0 statement-vote by city council, making it obvious that their scare tactics will not work, the opposition begins it's predictable backpedalling and face saving. They're unofficially saying that they will not sue after all, and attempting to claim sort some of victory. Pretty weak, if you ask me.
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