You know, this is why I have a low opinion of cincinnati.com and a select group of people who live here. Open your eyes and look around, think for yourself. For example;

 

I would bring distinctive architecture. Cincy is one of the absolutely most boring cities in the country architecturally.

 

Have you looked around Cincinnati Thomas?

Lets see there's half the buildings at UC, Scripp's, Chiquita, Federated, Converges, the old Cincy Bell Building, oh yeah and you may have heard of this tiny little neighborhood called OTR!

It'd be sweet if they made the banks old style german architecture.  like how new orleans has the french quarters.  it be sweet to have the german heritage brought out.  obviously octoberfest would be huge there, but it would add a unique feature thats for sure.  but anyways, i'm so excited something's on its way!

I agree with the German look or at least inspired by the OTR architecture.

 

No one mentioned the Carew Tower as a non-boring element of the Cincy skyline. While all cities have their buildings that were built in the 70s, Cincinnati is a very beautiful city overall.  Also I may be biased, but I love the art-deco style of the American Building.

Neighborhoods happen.  You can't decide to build a special neighborhood.  It has to build its own tradition, or it will fail.

It'd be sweet if they made the banks old style german architecture.  like how new orleans has the french quarters.  it be sweet to have the german heritage brought out.  obviously octoberfest would be huge there, but it would add a unique feature thats for sure.  but anyways, i'm so excited something's on its way!

 

The French Quarter though was an authentic French enclave in NO just like OTR was a traditional German enclave in Cincy. The city doesn't need to build a new German quarter but rather rehab the one it has.

 

oh ok...didn't know the history really behind it.  either way, german architecture would be so unique and completely cincy. call it little germany or something.  but ya, i don't really care now, i just want to see some dirt moved!

I think creating a german style neighborhood would feel contrived and fake. Given that you could do that in OTR, I don't see a reason why you would do it at the Banks.

 

I always thought OTR should have a designated block that doesn't have cars, pave it w/ cobblestone and make it all German bars and eateries and nothing else.  Put flowers in the windows and lamps and signs on he street and hanging off the buildings to give it a true German feel.  I attached this article about Stone Street in lower Manhattan which gives a before and after photo.  I would love something like this in OTR and I think the German feel would work there.

 

 

http://www.naparstek.com/2005_04_01_archive.php

 

http://susannassketchbook.typepad.com/susannas_sketchbook/images/2007/07/05/stone_street_4.jpg

A few of the churches in Over-the-Rhine are German in their architectural style, but the typical row buildings are Italianate.  The North End in Boston is a famously Italian neighborhood that is comprised primarily of this exact same style building.  The two differences there are that the streets are typically narrow and winding and there are a handful of surviving buildings from the 1700's including a few churches of a style that doesn't exist here.   

 

An italianate building typically has these style windows and a bracketed roof overhang:

^ True, they are <a href=http://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/cdap/pages/-3777-/>Italianate</a>, as well as Vernacular, Greek Revival, and Queen Anne styles, but have German writing over them or German themed frescoes and statues. I suppose I meant that look more than Disney's Little Germany which would be contrive and unsustainable. Perhaps more than German or OTR, a theme that recalls the old docks and warehouses of the riverfront would be appropriate.

 

Developments will have a style to them since they are designed. Some thought can be made to make it feel local or like a prefab suburban fake town dropped into the city.

I do think the Banks should aim for a Cincinnati vernacular architecture. That could neo-Italianate ala OTR, but it could also be neo-Art Deco ala Carew and Union Terminal. The neighborhood should say Cincinnati - the city - not Blue Ash or West Chester or wherever. If you want to get distinctively Cincinnati, perhaps the whole development could be built in the style of Crosley Tower at UC.  :wink2:

 

European-style modernism has its place but not now and not in this place.

You know, this is why I have a low opinion of cincinnati.com and a select group of people who live here. Open your eyes and look around, think for yourself. For example;

 

I would bring distinctive architecture. Cincy is one of the absolutely most boring cities in the country architecturally.

 

Have you looked around Cincinnati Thomas?

Lets see there's half the buildings at UC, Scripp's, Chiquita, Federated, Converges, the old Cincy Bell Building, oh yeah and you may have heard of this tiny little neighborhood called OTR!

 

What else would you expect from someone in kentuky?

Well if they had any sense about them they would find models in what actually used to be there such as:

 

 

Pearl St. & Race:

 

Pearl St. Market:

 

Pearl & Butler:

 

Front St.:

 

 

 

 

The Banks is a done deal

10 YEARS IN THE MAKING

BY JESSICA BROWN | [email protected]

 

The Banks Left Behind http://news.enquirer.com/assets/AB90449112.PDF

 

New Plan for The Banks http://news.enquirer.com/assets/AB90503112.PDF

 

With glowing remarks, handshakes all around and even a little humor, Hamilton County and Cincinnati's elected leaders Thursday approved the Banks project.

 

"This marks moving from a vision and dream to a reality," Councilwoman Laketa Cole said. "We can finally say we did it."

 

The culmination of a decade's worth of work on the long-stalled project came about 2 p.m. Thursday at the National Underground Railroad Freedom Center. In a series of "yes" votes, in front of a crowd of more than 150, Cincinnati City Council and the Hamilton County Commission approved what is intended to set the riverfront development in motion...

 

 

What's next?

Within four weeks: Developers Harold A. Dawson Co. and Carter Real Estate hope to secure contracts for architects and engineers. They also will name someone to reach out to minority businesses and make sure that The Banks inclusion policy is honored.

 

Within 60 days: Developers will secure financing for the private portion of the project. If they don't, the deal is off - unless the city and county agree to extend it.

 

By the end of the year: Hamilton County and Cincinnati will form a city-county steering committee to oversee the project.

 

First quarter 2008: Groundbreaking ceremony. Construction begins.

 

By end of 2009/early 2010: People will be living and working at The Banks.

 

 

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071102/NEWS01/711020412

You know, this is why I have a low opinion of cincinnati.com and a select group of people who live here. Open your eyes and look around, think for yourself. For example;

 

I would bring distinctive architecture. Cincy is one of the absolutely most boring cities in the country architecturally.

 

Have you looked around Cincinnati Thomas?

Lets see there's half the buildings at UC, Scripp's, Chiquita, Federated, Converges, the old Cincy Bell Building, oh yeah and you may have heard of this tiny little neighborhood called OTR!

 

Thomas is right...that Union Terminal piece of dung is just an eyesore and needs to be demolished.  I also hate the Ascent,  and the Ault Park Pavilion.

 

:drunk:

^Maybe we could get a bulk price on the demo and get them to take that hideous 150 year old piece o crap down spanning the river in the center of the Banks area.  It stands out like a sore thumb and would not compliment the new development!!!!     :drunk: :wink:

 

God this town needs some architecturally significant structures built!  The lack their of is killing me.

There's nothing particularly German about Cincinnati architecture, even the churches, in my opinion.  When I think of a distinctively German church, I imagine something done in the Baroque style, a style which as far as I'm aware was never a revival style that caught on in the U.S., which isn't surprising given the political overtones of the style.  However, certain churches on the inside have a very German look to me, best exemplified by St. Rose on Eastern Avenue.

 

Any sort of German style theme strikes me as incredibly hokey.  If you want throwback, jmeck's suggestion of copying styles and themes from the buildings that were once there seems the safest bet.  I think that dmerkow's suggestion of building on our fantastic Art Deco heritage is a great idea as well, though perhaps not exactly for the Banks site.  I'd like to see some sort of transition between the Reds Stadium and the Freedom Center that is respectful of both as well as tasteful.  My biggest concern is that the stuff on street-level be built for human beings, not cars or trucks or architects, and that you feel the density down there, so you know you are in the City, not The Homes at River Pointe or some crap like that.

 

The French Quarter though was an authentic French enclave in NO just like OTR was a traditional German enclave in Cincy. The city doesn't need to build a new German quarter but rather rehab the one it has.

 

Most of the architecture of the French Quarter dates from the time when the Spanish ruled Louisiana.  It doesn't look terribly Spanish or French to me.  I suspect the available local building materials of the time make the the Quarter look like it does.  Interestingly, when I was living back home and giving the eastern OTR tour with Architreks, we were told that most of the famous cast-iron balconies that we know from the French Quarter were actually cast in Cincinnati and shipped downriver.

Why make it look old?

The new Rec center at UC has been winning awards all over the world.

I'm not saying I want it on the Banks, but lets see what contemporary designs they can come up with.

I just don't want it to look like Easton Place or any one of those other "lifestyle" places.

Lets make it contemporary and let it age and in a few years it will be distinctly Cincinnati.

Not to get technical, but I think when he's saying German, he really means Bavarian.  You know, white/tan stucco and exposed, bent, dark brown beams on the facade.  That sort of thing.  I don't think a whole neighborhood of that would work, but if Cincinnati were able to get another one of the Munich breweries to open a restaurant here (Spaten, Lowenbrau, etc), it might be okay for their building specifically.  I really don't know, but wasn't Hofbrauhaus supposed to be part of The Banks originally?  I could be way off on that.

 

I'm completely in favor of playing up the German history of this area, but we might need to find more subtle ways that in the architecture.  Maybe with street naming or festivals or something.  Oktoberfest is huge.  Do we have a Maifest?

Oh, and Jmeck, you're killing me with those pictures.  Now I'm going to be depressed all day, thinking about what we've lost to the wrecking ball over the years.

To add on to what LK was saying about New Orleans, many of the wooden structures were built with Ohio Hardwood, flatboats and all.

 

Anyway, it has to be human scale, read no Chiquita building empty space or even the Dubois Tower which swallows people. Yeah the UC center won awards but it doesn't feel very human scale unless you play for the football or basketball teams.

 

We don't need to get all post-war German and rebuild it like it was before *Nazi's there were no Nazi's here*. I would like something grounded in history and many of the 19C buildings could be reimagined for the 21C. They were certainly human scale and would make the area a little different.

 

I have qualms about playing up the German heritage to a degree. OTR with its act together could be that place, but playing up the German heritage sometimes has the effect of erasing the African-American aspect of Cincinnati's history, with the museum there and all, it might be more than a bit weird to have the NURM right next door to faux Little Germany.

...but playing up the German heritage sometimes has the effect of erasing the African-American aspect of Cincinnati's history, with the museum there and all, it might be more than a bit weird to have the NURM right next door to faux Little Germany.

 

So what aspect are you embracing?  The pre-civil war aspect which provided an escape outlet for slaves, or the post-civil war racist aspect which prevented blacks from Swimming in Sunlite Pool until 1961?

 

How about moving the museum out to the Harriet Beecher Stow home where it would be a better fit?

 

 

I have to agree with dmerkow on this.    I would rather see an area of mixed architecture, but we couldn't plop a German style (or any one style) neighborhood surrounding the Freedom Center.    What about Italian and Romanesque architecture.  There is a large history of that as well not to mention population wise. (Little Italy - Fairmount)  Throw in some modern Deco with some contemp and you start to have a pretty diverse, unique, neighborhood complimented with the different existing buildings already surrounding the site.  (CBD, NUFC and the stadiums)

 

I proposed this back in March and it's time to revist it.

A huge flying pig in geosynchronous stationary orbit directly obove the Banks, thats the future.

 

A German heritage district, if considered, should be done in OTR and not contrived in the banks. 

i was just joking about the whole german thing.  then it just took off and ran.  anyways, the huge giant pig is hilarious.

Money is next Banks hurdle

 

By Joe Wessels

Post contributor

 

HOW CITY WILL PAY

-- The city already has socked away about $17.5 million of the projected $26.5 million that it will need to fund the Banks project.

-- The remaining $9 million likely will be raised through the issuance of bonds, said Council Member Roxanne Qualls.

 

Now that the Hamilton County Commission and Cincinnati City Council have finally approved a construction agreement on the Banks, the next step is finding the money.

 

The two elected bodies met Thursday in special joint session at the National Underground Railroad Freedom Center and unanimously approved the recommendations of the Banks Working Group for a development agreement to build the long-delayed riverfront project...

 

 

http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071102/NEWS01/711020374

I've always wondered how you end up getting a good looking neighborhood of buildings.  Design protocols laid down by the city?  Aesthetic subsidies?  Commissions based on competitive designs?  I have no idea, though there are examples of neighborhoods created anew that ended up really nicely put together (unlike that sentence).  The Back Bay in Boston in particular comes to mind.

 

I proposed this back in March and it's time to revist it.

A huge flying pig in geosynchronous stationary orbit directly obove the Banks, thats the future.

 

It's not often when a joke about modern architecture makes me laugh out loud.  Kudos.

Money is next Banks hurdle

 

By Joe Wessels

Post contributor

 

HOW CITY WILL PAY

-- The city already has socked away about $17.5 million of the projected $26.5 million that it will need to fund the Banks project.

-- The remaining $9 million likely will be raised through the issuance of bonds, said Council Member Roxanne Qualls.

 

Glad to see them finally spell out the money situation. Hopefully the private developer will find new backers since AIG back out. Does anyone know if the developer must find financial backing for the entire project within 60 days or just find funding for phase one only?

Glad to see them finally spell out the money situation. Hopefully the private developer will find new backers since AIG back out. Does anyone know if the developer must find financial backing for the entire project within 60 days or just find funding for phase one only?

 

I'm pretty sure just for phase 1.

^ I hadn't thought about it, but it's got to be just phase one.  They're not really sure what the mix of residential/commercial space will be in the next phases yet, so I'd guess it would be difficult to get financial commitments for that without more details.  Please correct me if I'm wrong about that, though.

I just didn't know if the City and County will want the developer to prove that they have the financial capacity to finish the project or if they will just let it go phase by phase and hope the developer will continue to have the financials to finish all phases. I have been involved in multi phase mixed use projects and the developers have always had to show the ability to complete all phases financially, before they were awarded the development rights. Either way, it looking more and more like phase one will get off the ground by late winter or early spring.

Why isn't it 2008 yet?!?!?  My gosh, George W. may very well go down in history as the worst president in U.S. history.  He has essentially accomplished nothing under his full 8 years in office aside from his controversial tax cuts.  BTW, he is also poised to veto a bill that would provide health insurance to children...for the SECOND TIME!!!  What a clown!

 

Veto a douse of cold water for Banks

BY MALIA RULON | CINCINNATI ENQUIRER

November 2, 2007

 

WASHINGTON – One day after city and county officials approved the Banks agreement, President Bush vetoed a massive water resources bill that would have authorized $30 million for The Banks’ waterfront park.

 

In his veto message, Bush said Friday that the $23 billion bill “lacks fiscal discipline.”

 

[glow=yellow,2,300]Congress, however, is poised to deliver its first override of a Bush veto next week. The Water Resources Development Act, popular with members because of the pet projects it contains, passed the Senate 81-12 and the House 381-40...[/glow]

 

 

>I've always wondered how you end up getting a good looking neighborhood of buildings.  Design protocols laid down by the city?  Aesthetic subsidies?  Commissions based on competitive designs?  I have no idea, though there are examples of neighborhoods created anew that ended up really nicely put together (unlike that sentence).  The Back Bay in Boston in particular comes to mind.

 

Well one thing is to use really expensive materials.  Everyone needs to visit the Tartan Fields subdivision in Dublin, OH, which is the site of about 100 $1-5 million dollar homes.  It's not gated so you can just drive in.  Everything's 10 years old or newer and is a collection of pretty much every American housing style but seemingly no expense was spared on any of them.  The doors are made of exotic wood, they have exotic stonework on the homes, intricate driveway patterns and even one that just has exotic crushed gravel for a driveway.  It's sort of like Las Vegas -- there's a colonial next to a brady bunch next to Frank Lloyd Wright.  But it works simply because all of them are extraordinarily well crafted.  It of course takes and army of Mexicans to maintain the homes and landscaping, but that's not the issue here. 

 

What's remarkable about the Italianate style specifically is that it was very formulaic and cheap to build, but for some reason even the typical brick buildings have a solid presence.  Also there is a sort of randomness to the lot sizes and the building heights, even for buildings with the same number of floors.  There was a zoning effort to start regulating these features and I bet originally those blocks stood in handsome contrast to the earlier chaotic streetscapes.  But now everything looks like the computer programs and vector graphics they were designed with so the chaotic streetscapes stand in contrast to everything else.  Also, traditional city blocks have buildings in various states of repair and rehab, whereas a development built in one large phase ages entirely at the same rate. 

 

And let's not fool ourselves into thinking the riverfront will be a neighborhood in any traditional sense.  There might be a dry cleaner but there likely won't be a laundromat, let alone a gradeschool or a church or a moose lodge.       

 

To make it historically accurate we need quite a number dens of ill-repute, whorehouses, flophouses, slosh joints, opium dens, and the like. Frequents small scale riots between the local Irish immigrants and semi-free black populations would be useful. Kind of and inland port town version of Colonial Williamsburg except with more violence, more alcohol, and probably more funny business.

jmecklenborg, you expressed it far better than I could have! Kudos.

To make it historically accurate we need quite a number dens of ill-repute, whorehouses, flophouses, slosh joints, opium dens, and the like. Frequents small scale riots between the local Irish immigrants and semi-free black populations would be useful. Kind of and inland port town version of Colonial Williamsburg except with more violence, more alcohol, and probably more funny business.

 

my kind of town.  where do i sign up?

A sense of place

Designers agree: Make Banks stylish, fun & open - and give it a distinct personality

BY MARGARET A. MCGURK | [email protected]

 

 

Architects and designers call it "sense of place."

 

In simple terms, it means personality - the shape, size, sight and smell that makes one location different from another. It's how you know you are in Mariemont, instead of Manhattan.

 

"If people feel attached to someplace, that's where you have it," said Mahyar Arefi, associate professor of planning at the University of Cincinnati, who has made a career of studying sense of place...

 

 

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071104/NEWS01/711040352

Cincinnati riverfront project finally sees light of a possible day

 

Sunday, November 04, 2007

Terry KinneyAssociated Press

 

Cincinnati- The vision for the downtown riverfront for decades has been of a gleaming neighborhood of greenspace and high-rises for living, working and entertaining, a destination for visitors and a haven for young professionals and downsizing baby boomers.

 

Deal after deal was shot down by lack of money or political infighting. A classic case was the squabble between city and county officials over who owns the air rights over parking garages needed to lift buildings out of the Ohio River flood plain...

 

http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/news/119416919384390.xml&coll=2&thispage=1

"This city and county are turning things around."

 

Damn straight!

One thing that these urban renewal projects often lack is human scale. This doesn't mean buildings should be small, rather have elements that address people. I think the older architecture of Cincinnati implicitly addresses the human scale. What we shouldn't do, is create a Disneyland reproduction of Cincinnati architecture. The Banks must be contemporary, but also must have that warmth that they are referring to in the article above. It must also be strikingly different. What a lost opportunity for architecture the Gateway building was.

One thing that these urban renewal projects often lack is human scale.

 

Careful with your language, because this is not an urban renewal project in the sense that most would think of an urban renewal project.  Sure it is rebuilding a large swath of urban land, but there is a difference.  Personal gripe aside, I agree...many of these new projects overlook a couple of things.  One would be the human scale (which you touched on)...the other being the open spaces and how they relate and function.  Open spaces are often times just the leftover spaces between structures; however if you plan them out accordingly it can really make a fantastic urban space.

"however if you plan them out accordingly it can really make a fantastic urban space."

 

Good Point!  As if it were originally planned to always be there! 

I had to reread the headline of that article three times before i caught that it said "day" and not "delay".  I suppose thats just a reflection of what im used to seeing!

(Precursor to The Banks???)

 

Housing demand near stadiums expected to rise

By Lucy May, The Cincinnati Enquirer, July 9, 1999

www.enquirer.com

 

David Imboden stands on the deck of his East End condominium and gazes across the Ohio River at the green hills of Northern Kentucky.

 

"That," he said, taking in the view, "is why you should have housing on the riverfront."

 

While Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky have hundreds of apartments and condominiums with views of the river, those who sell and rent the properties know people are hungry for more.

 

To capitalize on the river's pull, the advocacy group Downtown Cincinnati Inc. (DCI) is pushing planners to recommend new housing be built between the Bengals' Paul Brown Stadium and the new Reds ballpark...

 

Edition:  TRIS

Section:  NEW

Page:  01A

Cincinnati riverfront plan advances

Funding problem still an obstacle

By Terry Kinney, Associated Press, November 7, 2007

 

CINCINNATI -- The vision for Cincinnati's downtown riverfront for decades has been of a neighborhood of greenspace and high-rises for living, working and entertaining, a destination for visitors and a haven for young professionals and downsizing baby boomers.

 

Deal after deal was shot down by political infighting or lack of funding...

 

 

^Um, yeah, I definitely posted that article already!

Oops. I saw this posted on the Courier-Journal this morning.

^Um, yeah, I definitely posted that article already!

 

Um, yeah, if you could come in on Saturday, that'd be great...thaaanks! 

" Has anyone seen my red, Ssswingline ssstapler?"

 

 

Classic flick!

I'm not even going back through this thread to see if this has been posted but I basically ripped-off Cincinnatius' post on another forum.

 

Banks approved; 'An incredible thing'

BY JESSICA BROWN | [email protected]

www.enquirer.com

 

Cincinnati and Hamilton County governments have approved the Banks agreements, paving the way for the project to begin.

 

The voting —which took several minutes due to the multiple pieces of legislation —were greeted by a hearty round of applause. The votes were unanimous. Commissioner Pat DeWine was unable to participate because of a potential conflict of interest involving his law firm...

 

Oh, and yay!