I grew up outside of Cincinnati and I've since moved to KY and only get to the city once every couple of months. Last Friday my brother, wife and I all went to a Reds game an lo and behold there were dozers moving dirt at the Banks site! I looked at my brother and said, "if I have the money, I want to live there." Cincinnati is on the verge of big things if the momentum continues. BTW: Thanks to all you Urban Ohio folks for keeping me connected to my favorite city.

doh, i'm an idiot (see below)

Manatee statues, heh, Jacksonville ;)  My grandparents used to take us down there, I remember em well.

 

 

I would not at all be opposed to a giant pig water fountain, it would be unique!

We've got some flying pigs already at Fountain Square and we had pigs on the streets a couple years back. You can still see some of them around.

 

I know Cincinnati is proud of its pork history (with good measure, though the fact that so much of pig production ended up feeding Southern slaves is unfortunate).

 

We need a 20C symbol for the city that would work as a fountain. Random thoughts . . . a retail employee (Kroger's/Federated(Macy's) and many more), a Crosley radio, aircraft engine, a Camaro (GM Norwood). . .

I know Cincinnati is proud of its pork history (with good measure, though the fact that so much of pig production ended up feeding Southern slaves is unfortunate).

 

what an odd statement.  Please share your data.

I know Cincinnati is proud of its pork history (with good measure, though the fact that so much of pig production ended up feeding Southern slaves is unfortunate).

 

I have no idea if that is true, but considering the way the rivers flow, it wouldn't be surprising that the products ended up in the south

 

what an odd statement.  Please share your data.

I know Cincinnati is proud of its pork history (with good measure, though the fact that so much of pig production ended up feeding Southern slaves is unfortunate).

 

what an odd statement.  Please share your data.

 

Salt Pork which (alot) would be shipped south.

Before the war, most of Cincinnati's pork, especially the salted pork produced along what is now Eggleston Avenue was shipped down the Ohio and then the Mississippi to the big plantations of the Deep South. One of the big places that Cincinnati's pigs came from was Western North Carolina. Lafcadio Hearn is probably the best on what it was like in Cincinnati's pork factories (short version-very disgusting).

 

As evidence, Stradling's history of Cincinnati discusses it along with numerous articles in the variously named magazines of the Cincinnati Historical Society. There are a number of dissertations done at UC and elsewhere that traces this history. I think Nikki Taylor's history of the area that will be the Banks discusses this as well, though I've only skimmed it. If you are bored, the newspapers of the 1850s make clear that Cincinnati's wealth was built on its strong position in the north/south land and river trades. We've never really recovered from the changes in trade patterns that happened after the war (east-west with Chicago and New York as the hubs).

 

Northern Kentucky was quite the hang out for plantations owners since that was a far north a slave owner could take their slaves to escape the summers of the Deep South.

 

If you read any histories of Cincinnati during the Civil War, many Cincinnati merchants kept selling pork and other products south throughout much of the war. Cincinnati benefited on the hand because many of the leader merchants were Republicans and voila they got big government contracts and there were lots of hints of war profiteering and selling to the enemy by some Cincy merchants.

 

P&G got its big foundation of capital that drove its growth in the second half of the 19C from government contracts for candles and other products.

 

New England had similar connections - they made the cheap clothes and shoes that were sold to the slave owners as well.

Wow...that was one of the most interesting history lessons I've ever gotten.  Seriously that was an awesome summary.

I understand the history, i'm questioning the statement that "so much" of pig production went to feeding the slaves, when it was a very small percentage.  You imply that the entire Cincinnati pork business prospered because of slavery.  If it was "unfortunate", what would you have had them eat?  And if New England sent cheap clothes, what would you have had them wear?

 

Now, if your position is that you don't eat pork products because of the slavery issue, or you don't wear cotton underwear for the same reason, I could respect that.  I tire of people blaming people alive today for the wrongs done by people hundreds of years ago.

P&G got its big foundation of capital that drove its growth in the second half of the 19C from government contracts for candles and other products.

 

... and soap to Union Soldiers. I wasn't aware that there were anymore products being distributed except for soap and candles?

I'm not saying that there is anything 'wrong' with the fact that Cincinnati's pork industry served the slave market (and by extension the same for New England). It was a substantial part of their market. Other users were westward migrants as Cincinnati was a key stopping point in the late 40s and 50s for those heading into the Great Plains and even California after 1849. The situation just complicates our idea about the industry. As a historian (professionally - I suppose), I think it is intrinsically valuable to know that Cincinnati's porkopolis was integrated into the economic component of slavery. Slavery was the foundation of American wealth until 1863. Most of the richest Americans were slave-owners. The entire economy was implicated in the system. Does that mean that they had ill-gained profits? No, not usually.

 

Slavery was deeply problematic, but it isn't the same as the corporations in Germany that were implicated in the Holocaust as an example.

 

As to P&G, I had the sense from a couple sources that in addition to the soap and candles that they produced, they also served as a distributor for other products the army needed.

  I tire of people blaming people alive today for the wrongs done by people hundreds of years ago.

 

America should always think of slavery as unfortunate, and refer to it as such; lest we forget that it was so, and risk forgetting that it was wrong.

 

If you cannot believe that such things can be forgotten to history, you aren't a very good student of history.

  I tire of people blaming people alive today for the wrongs done by people hundreds of years ago.

 

America should always think of slavery as unfortunate, and refer to it as such; lest we forget that it was so, and risk forgetting that it was wrong.

 

If you cannot believe that such things can be forgotten to history, you aren't a very good student of history.

I tire of people getting off topic on UO.

Some guy makes a minor comment that it was unfortunate that so much of Cincinnati's packed pork fed slaves, and it strikes a raw nerve? Well I can't run in circles trying to explain how regarding something as unfortunate isn't the same as apologizing. I guess I've got to keep in mind what regional forum I'm posting in, and the social "sensitivities" it has.

  I tire of people blaming people alive today for the wrongs done by people hundreds of years ago.

 

America should always think of slavery as unfortunate, and refer to it as such; lest we forget that it was so, and risk forgetting that it was wrong.

 

If you cannot believe that such things can be forgotten to history, you aren't a very good student of history.

I tire of people getting off topic on UO.

 

Civvik didn't cause this thread to become off-topic.  You can thank DanB for that (though I don't fault him for questioning dmerkow's response).

 

Anyway, *ahem*

 

BACK ON TOPIC!

When are they actually going to start building the garage?

^The construction equipment is already there doing the preliminary stuff (right now it's related to digging up some old Riverfront Stadium concrete or something).  I assume (hope?) that site prep and construction will follow shortly after....

I say you'll start seeing interesting activity around the beginning of Summer.

Well I can't wait for something to happen. I don't live in Cincinnati, or all that close for that matter (Adams County), but I work for a construction company based around Blue Ash that has us working all over the place. Right now we are working on the west side so I go by downtown everyday and everyday I'm looking for some sort of progress to be made on The Banks or on QCS.

Well I can't wait for something to happen. I don't live in Cincinnati, or all that close for that matter (Adams County), but I work for a construction company based around Blue Ash that has us working all over the place. Right now we are working on the west side so I go by downtown everyday and everyday I'm looking for some sort of progress to be made on The Banks or on QCS.

 

Thats awesome...I was beginning to think I was the only one from Adams Co on here!

can anyone guess as to when we'll have a good idea about the tenants in the retail portion and the flag of the hotel? I'm really hoping for an ultra-luxury property a la Ritz-Carlton, Fairmont, or Renaissance, but my guess is that it will just be a Doubletree or Holiday Inn or something....

They've always thrown out the 'boutique' hotel term for The Banks.  I wouldn't mind a W though.

I wouldn't be surprised to see those hotels end up being extended stay hotels like Residence Inn Marriott.  It would make sense, given the proximity to the rest of downtown.

I too was hoping for something really nice like a Ritz or 4 Seasons, but I doubt that will happen.  The DC/Baltimore region has 6 Ritz Carltons! 6!!!

They've always thrown out the 'boutique' hotel term for The Banks.  I wouldn't mind a W though.

 

Kimpton/Monaco group was rumored to be sniffing around town a few years back, although they prefer to retrofit existing historic structures (hello Bartlett Building).  I have stayed in their hotels in Chicago, DC and NOLA, and they would be a good fit downtown, albeit probably nota candidate for the Banks.

The Metropole Hotel (across from the Aronoff Center) was rumored to be the target of a boutique hotel remake a while back.

^Instead it's a drug-infested Section 8 den of sin.

^Do they have any units available?

^I'd be sure they can get you anything you want. 

They've always thrown out the 'boutique' hotel term for The Banks.  I wouldn't mind a W though.

 

Kimpton/Monaco group was rumored to be sniffing around town a few years back, although they prefer to retrofit existing historic structures (hello Bartlett Building).  I have stayed in their hotels in Chicago, DC and NOLA, and they would be a good fit downtown, albeit probably nota candidate for the Banks.

 

yeah, this was my other thought. Kimpton is the leader of the boutique segment, so it's quite possible. W is considered boutique as well, so don't rule it out.

 

that being said..downtown there is a notable lack of a) ultra-luxury hotels and b) extended stay. Columbus and Cleveland both have SEVERAL extended stay properties open and additional ones currently in the pipeline, so I think this could definitely happen as well.

 

moreover, I also think there would be demand for a Ritz/JW/Fairmont/4 Seasons. We do have quite a bit of executive travel and celebrity/musician visits, so I do think this would work.

 

Terrace Plaza hotel by Fountain Square is for sale right now (IMO it's overpriced) but that would be a perfect property to reposition too...

^Instead it's a drug-infested Section 8 den of sin.

 

I have been meaning to ask you guys about metropole/ Is it really section 8?  How in the world do you put section 8 housing in that building in that location?

Section 8 housing is not a government determined program.  It is up to the users and the landlords.  If a landlord wants/chooses to have Section 8 recipients, and people on Section 8 want to live there then you've got a match.  The government no longer builds public housing, and its been essentially a policy of HUD for many years now.

still a crime that metropole is section 8. That building seems to have a ton of potential.  given that many out of towners come into downtown for the Airnoff, many of the shady carachters that live there probably don't help downtown perceptions.

^It all boils down to the landlord in my opinion...not necessarily the tenants.  If the landlord didn't want those tenants any longer they could go in another direction.  The rental market Downtown is great and demand keeps rising...I'm kind of surprised that any landlord feels that they have to use Section 8 to fall back on in that micro-market.

The Terrace was going to be converted into a super luxury but 9/11, the riots, and the convention center reno killed that. On the luxe hotel, I imagine that market is determined by the type of corporations here. If P&G or Kroger or Macy's wanted one, we'd have it by now, because their clients would fill it. The Cincinnatian fills some of that gap along with Netherland (brand at the moment).

If P&G or Kroger or Macy's wanted one, we'd have it by now, because their clients would fill it. The Cincinnatian fills some of that gap along with Netherland (brand at the moment).

 

Don't forget about Newport on the Levee's Travelodge.

The Terrace was going to be converted into a super luxury but 9/11, the riots, and the convention center reno killed that. On the luxe hotel, I imagine that market is determined by the type of corporations here. If P&G or Kroger or Macy's wanted one, we'd have it by now, because their clients would fill it. The Cincinnatian fills some of that gap along with Netherland (brand at the moment).

 

The Cincinnatian is hardly a luxury hotel. That place is extremely outdated and is very worn around the edges...they could really benefit from a renovation. I do like the fact that it is a smaller place and they do give quite a bit more attention to their guests than most of the other convention hotels downtown, but really IMO it's overpriced and misrepresented.

I don't really use the hotels, but it is probably getting long in the tooth now. It was 'the' place to stay in the 90s after its last renovation which was a big deal as I recall.

The Cincinnatian is definitely a luxury hotel but just not the flashy sort.  The quality of the service and the amenities are amazing.

still a crime that metropole is section 8. That building seems to have a ton of potential.  given that many out of towners come into downtown for the Airnoff, many of the shady carachters that live there probably don't help downtown perceptions.

 

^It all boils down to the landlord in my opinion...not necessarily the tenants.  If the landlord didn't want those tenants any longer they could go in another direction.  The rental market Downtown is great and demand keeps rising...I'm kind of surprised that any landlord feels that they have to use Section 8 to fall back on in that micro-market.

 

Listen to what Rando is saying:  A building is not set aside for Section 8 use.  The landlord decides whether or not he wants to be a part of the Section 8 program.  The landlord probably has to be vetted by the agency, but he's getting paid by the government through the tenant.  It's a pretty good deal for the landlord.

 

Also, it is easier for a landlord to evict a Section 8 tenant than a regular tenant.

Also, keep in mind that HUD can purchase an apartment complex to be used as Section 8 housing and act as the landlords themselves. Not that HUD would/should invest the type of money it would take to purchase an apartment at the Banks...

section 8...le sigh.  When is the Banks slated to be completely relative to the streetcar?

If streetcar keeps going as planned, and is operational mid 2011, there should be the first units at the banks coming online at the same time, along with the queen city tower

 

All right thanks, fingers crossed it all goes according to plan

The first phase of the Central Riverfront Park should be completed by that time as well.

^ 2011 is going to be a BIG year for this city.

Don't forget about Newport on the Levee's Travelodge.

 

LOL!  They can't bring the wrecking ball in fast enough for that one!  I can't imagine it will still exist 5 years from now.

Jimmy, a VERY BIG year indeed.  Not only that, but we'll also have the new SCPA built and operational.  Since its the nations one and only K-12 arts school, that should draw new interest into OTR.  The streetcar is huge though.  Get that connected to Uptown and all this, we'll start to see numbers growing here instead of declining.  Kind of makes you wonder what our city would've been like had the great depression not happened and our subway was built.  Can someone say Chicago-like?

^U never know!