I just threw up in my mouth a little.  I am very interested to know what the design review board has to say about this proposal.  Carter Dawson must have thrown these together last night.  Does anybody know who the architect might be? 

I think the renderings won't do the final product justice.  Even for what they are trying to illustrate the 3d graphics are of poor quality.  It just seems to be a case of a changing industry from hand-rendering which always showed great detail and quality to an industry that is going computerized.  Not everyone has that skill to make their renderings the detailed masterpieces that hand-renderings were.  These are just meant to give an illustrative idea of what the final outcome will look like...these are certainly not technical documents that will be used on the construction site.

Calhoun South as cramer so eloquently put it - looking East I believe

 

This one appears to be looking NE

 

And this one I think is looking NW

Wow, not too shabby. Figure that invidual businesses will fancy up their own buildings with signage, advertisements, and what not so they probably will look a little more alive when built.

 

The problem with these developments compared with something like 4th Street west of Vine is that these guys are build one large building instead of rows of individual buildings standing side by side.  So unless these are built with the capacity to subdivide them into smaller buildings (not condos) I don't see much 'fancying up' happening, at least not in the sense that most folks on this thread are thinking.  The City should really consider what sort of aesthetic improvements they can encourage to these buildings once they are finished and rented or sold.

these are pretty awful

these are pretty awful

 

Notice how the buildings in this rendering for The Banks Phase 1a look awfully similar to the renderings for Keystone Park:

 

The Banks Phase 1a:

 

Keystone Park:

 

The two projects/buildings will end up looking very different, but in the renderings they look to be equally as bad as one another.  This is just a case of poor graphical skills, not necessarily a bad overall design plan.

Ummm.....so much for being unique or one of a kind.

Ummm.....Union Center......Kenwood Towne Center Renovation......on...

                      and.....on...and..on.

I quess I'm still in love with the original renderings from way back.

At least there building the damn thing finally.

And there will at least be a state of the art park system that will

divert our attention from the blandness of the buildings.

 

 

I hope you are right Rando.  I know i was tooting the "poor rendering" horn for the Gateway garage and condos and we all know how those turned out.  While overall the Keystone development blows big time, i think there are some better than average architectural details.  The power must have been out when the picked the color palette but the materials are pretty nice at Keystone. 

 

I am now genuinely concerned as to how this project is going to turn out.  This screams of Atlantic station where details are underwealming and cheap, and materials are fake.  And yes, the renderings are quite simply terrible.  I would be embarrassed if this was my work.  I would be far more interested in seeing an elevation of two with more specific massing/site info.  These images really do nothing to tell the story of the neighborhood.

 

I hope the design review board says things like "hey! a little height variation can go a long way!"...not to mention a little horizontal plane change.  This is not the "front door to Cincinnati" they have been touting.

 

On the other side of the coin i see potential.  A few of you have already renamed the project Calhoun street south.  To me thats not all that bad for i see the single most prevalent flaw of the Calhoun street project being its scale.  Chop Calhoun up about 700 times and then you've got a decent development.

 

I hope i feel better about this as the design continues to develop and the folks tending the render machine hone their skills. 

the banks

Keystone Park

the banks

 

University Park

Its all brown... its all not original

 

 

 

...its all better than nothing i guess.

the banks

 

University Park

 

I was reading through everone's comments thinking that you were all being over-critical of these renderings, and then I saw this comparison to University Park.  And then I suddenly understood the criticism.  This is a problem.

 

 

 

HOWEVER, because I am an incurable optimist.  I have to remind myself that this neighborhood will be surrounded by such great-to-above-average architecture that it doesnt need to be inspiring to make a great neighborhood.  The Supension Bridge, PBS, the Freedom Center, GAP (which, is underrated in my opinion.  I like the perpendicular warehouse style buildings on the outside of GAP), the Scripts building, and QCS will play off of this neighborhood in a fantastic way. 

 

Cross the Supension Bridge into Covington and you will see what I mean.  That area has a lot of bad, new buildings if examined in isolation.  However, they dont seem to be quite so bad because they are surrounded by the Suspension Bridge and the historic townhomes east of the Bridge.  The neighborhood feels pretty organic (I hate to use such a lame cliche) like it was built over many decades.

 

I have been to Atlantic Station in Atlanta. It kinda sucks, but it is still a successful neighborhood.  I see a lot of similarities between these designs and AS.  However, AS is isolated by a highway from downtown ATL, and even if it was in downtown it would still suck because it is just like everything else in downtown ATL.  Brand new and without character.  ATL doesnt have 10% of the historical charm as downtown Cincy. 

 

However, if you popped AS in downtown Cincy it would take on a completely different vibe than it does in its current location.  Cincy has too much historical charm IMO. It looks like nothing has been built in Cincy in 30 years (and that isnt far from the truth), which gives downtown an outdated/ghost town feel.  Sparkling, new, modern buildings (even if unispiring) will give downtown Cincy something that it doesnt currently have; an impression that we are a growing city.

i guess one way to look at it is atleast they didn't make all this in the sixties or seventies with all concrete buildings....

 

I think for me, and I am very into and very excited about this as are most people, when I saw the headline to see the new renderings I got really excited and started seeing conceptual designs in my own head that I thought they might try.  the only way to describe my feelings after i saw them are, anti-climactic i guess.  It's just like, woo-hoo, ho-hum.  I don't think we should be saying, "o well, atleast its getting built."  I was just expecting much much more i suppose.  and I feel bad complaining bc i get so sick and tired of all the negativity from everyone

The problem is that if they were to copy stuff from the past that works they'd have to admit that they suck, and so instead they just barf jargon. 

Wow, and people said the Ovation renderings were bad.  These are just awful.  I'm really glad this is finally getting built, but I hope to God this project will turn out to be more interesting than this.

 

HOWEVER, because I am an incurable optimist. I have to remind myself that this neighborhood will be surrounded by such great-to-above-average architecture that it doesnt need to be inspiring to make a great neighborhood. The Supension Bridge, PBS, the Freedom Center, GAP (which, is underrated in my opinion. I like the perpendicular warehouse style buildings on the outside of GAP), the Scripts building, and QCS will play off of this neighborhood in a fantastic way.

 

Good point.

 

The problem is that if they were to copy stuff from the past that works they'd have to admit that they suck, and so instead they just barf jargon.

 

LOL!

Ugh yeah those renderings suck.  What a terrible lost opportunity it would be if the Banks turns out looking like these renderings...

They should take all of the really cool buildings that have been demolished in OTR and make duplicates right on The Banks. 

Hi all - newbie here but this seems like a good time to jump right in.

 

Count me among the "very disappointed" crowd.  While I'm as thrilled as anyone to finally see some progress being made, I think the "well it's boring as hell; but at least it's something" attitude is as disappointing as those renderings.  It seems the powers that be in Cincinnati have been beating us down for so long (broadway commons, light rail, etc...) that now we're satisfied with any morsel they'll throw our way.  Shouldn't be that way - this is too important for what they've given us and hopefully someone with some say in the matter feels the same way.

 

And the quality of the renderings to me speaks volumes about the mindset of the developers. 

I agree the architectural elements are very much like Atlantic Station (good or bad?), but its a start. The really good parts of this project is how pedestrian oriented it will be and that it will have a street grid pattern.

This is a huge disappointment.  While I want the Banks to get developed, this is not what I had in mind design while.  I think many people "just want something built" at this point but I fail to see why it has to be this?  What happened to the absolutely gorgeous renderings that were first created?  The original renderings were breathtaking.

 

Just build this:

 

 

One of the Enquirer commenters were right when they said Freedom Way was a corny name.  Cast my vote for disappointed.  Queen City Square at least will look similar to the original rendering, like the skyscraper or not, these renderings are proof that it could have been much worse.

 

I guess this is what you get when you have a "southern" developer design something for a northern city with character.  They don't know what character is down there.  Everything is new and square.

 

I guess it will at least be mixed use which is an important factor.

I think we should hold off judgment on the city at this point...if this is the first time they have seen these renderings then obviously they haven't had any direct input.  I'm giving the city the benefit of the doubt that this is NOT their vision. 

^Yeah, but the problem is that 10 years into the process, when there is finally momentum, who wants to be the politician that upsets the applecart on this?  I'm afraid that it will get rubberstamped and we'll all just have to hope for the best.  Don't get me wrong.  Those renderings aren't the worst thing I've ever seen; they're just not what I was hoping for with The Banks.  If those were renderings for an infill development on the surface lots of 5th street in Newport, I'd be ecstatic.  But they aren't.  They're renderings for what will be one of the most visited (and most photographed) parts of town, and I don't think this is what we want outsiders to form their impressions of Cincinnati from.

Well, it is for just two blocks and there are 4~ more on the other side of the Freedom Center.  Still, would it kill them to just borrow from what's gone? 

 

 

Well, it is for just two blocks and there are 4~ more on the other side of the Freedom Center. Still, would it kill them to just borrow from what's gone?

 

Good point.  I do kind of like the idea of city council spreading out a bunch of old photos and telling the developer "Hey, we screwed up and demolished these buildings.  If you can use some of this for inspiration so that it isn't a total loss, that would be great."

^I'll second that!!

If they want to make it look like it evolved from different time periods, well then put some distinctly old-looking buildings there.  One building from 2009 and another from 2011 doesn't constitute different time periods in my book.  Even just one prominant building of an old style would make a big difference, help make it look like a real city block.  Who wants to bet these developers haven't even heard of the Pearl St. Market?  I really wish they had called it Pearl St. instead of "Freedom Way", if anything, conceptually a "Freedom Way" should have run north/south. 

 

 

 

 

I really wish they had called it Pearl St. instead of "Freedom Way", if anything, conceptually a "Freedom Way" should have run north/south. 

 

Wow, I never even thought of that, but you're right.  Personally, I would have preferred that this be called 1st Street, because I'm always annoyed that there is a 2nd Street but no 1st.  Also, "Freedom Way" just sounds lame.

Freedom Way is terribly lame.

On another note does anyone know if there will be any LEED certified buildings? is this in the project program at all?

I'd be surprised if any of the buildings aren't LEED certified, since it's such a buzzword right now.  I think I remember hearing that even QCS2 is going to be LEED certified.

Yeah I guess until now I kind of just assumed they would be, but I feel like it is something that hasn't been mentioned.

I'd definitely second the notion of looking more directly to the city's past for ideas. I'd throw in the Gwynne Bldg as another good example to work from. I think the city should get Carter to aim for one design-first building per block. The whole area doesn't need to pop but a good bit of it ought to.

 

Personally, I would have preferred that this be called 1st Street, because I'm always annoyed that there is a 2nd Street but no 1st.

 

It's my understanding that the river is (and always will be) "First Street." 

I know they talked about green buidlings, so I assume LEED will be used

I have been a fan of the idea of recreating these old buildings that we demolished, but as i've gotten older i feel like its a weak attempt at recreating a scene from Main St. America. I love the origional renderings of the Banks with the classic architecture, but this is 2008 not 1908. We should build structures of the time. The more I think about it I would like to see something that hits more along the second set of renderings.

 

I'd like it to mesh with downtown, but not recreate OTR on the riverfront. I think that Queen City Square did this very well its a modern building that pays tribute to Art Deco Architecture. I would love to see something like that.

 

We already have a ton of classic architecture and more and more of it is being saved and renovated weekly. Lets create something origional!

 

Just my opinion.

^  Right On BDRUF....

 

^Yeah, but the problem is that 10 years into the process, when there is finally momentum, who wants to be the politician that upsets the applecart on this?  I'm afraid that it will get rubberstamped and we'll all just have to hope for the best.  Don't get me wrong.  Those renderings aren't the worst thing I've ever seen; they're just not what I was hoping for with The Banks.  If those were renderings for an infill development on the surface lots of 5th street in Newport, I'd be ecstatic.  But they aren't.  They're renderings for what will be one of the most visited (and most photographed) parts of town, and I don't think this is what we want outsiders to form their impressions of Cincinnati from.

 

We might be 10 years into the process but were not 10 years into building design.  I have no understanding as to what the communication has been like between the developer and the city. So its impossible for me to know if this has been back and fourth or if this is the first time the city has seen design representation since the architects started working.  Requesting the architects take another pass is not a deal breaker by any stretch.  Most likely the general layout of each building is essentially complete...how else would the coordinate with the garage structure below.  Whats left if that is the case is facade articulation which could go through several variations without creating an insane amount of additional work. 

 

 

I feel it highly unlikely (at least i hope) that this is anything more than a first pass.  Through my experiences i have come to understand that its pretty easy to develop seemingly "polished" design image in a relatively short amount of time when demanded by the client.  These new images just scream last minute and hopefully the architecture represented is the result of that as well.  There might be good reason that no particular view is especially close.  I hope that good reason is the designers knew they were way off the mark. 

Although the renderings do look weak, and the 'Calhoun Street South' moniker is apt, I'm less annoyed with the rather formulaic look than I am with the windows specifically.  If people are going to live in these buildings, why not build some bigger windows that you can open and close, or maybe some with real balconies.  That strikes me as being the most city-friendly element you could put out there (and some of those ceiling to floor storefront window/door like at L'express.  What are they called Cramer?)

Meh, they are just buildings. They aren't ugly. The important thing is that they are actually happening, it's housing, and it's not in West Chester.

 

Well I guess we won't really know until we see the buildings take physical form.  Who knows, the boring renderings might actually look good when standing in front of them in person. (winces)

Meh, they are just buildings. They aren't ugly. The important thing is that they are actually happening, it's housing, and it's not in West Chester.

 

 

Did Orlando change you? ;)

It's my understanding that the river is (and always will be) "First Street." 

 

Really?  I've never heard that.  If that's true, that's pretty cool, and I respectfully recind my statement about being annoyed that First Street doesn't exist.

 

 

We might be 10 years into the process but were not 10 years into building design.

 

True, but what I was trying to get at is that this is one project that a lot of people thought would never get off the ground.  Now that it is finally making progress, no one wants to be the guy that accidentally derailed it because they were too picky, particularly when your job depends on your reelection in the near future.  Yeah, the developer would more than likely retool the design if asked, but the question is, will they be asked to?

^ I simply cant imagine that they wont.  Its the RESPONSIBILITY of a design review board to critique and suggest improvements.  Otherwise, whats the point.   

 

I understand where you are coming from but i think the decision makers realize this is something they cannot get wrong.  Id say there is more at risk by letting something slip through the cracks thats substandard than pushing back on design.  Everyone will forget how difficult it was to get the project finished once the final ribbon is cut.  But we'll always be reminded of how it did or did not meet the promised expectations if they fail to deliever. 

I think regardless of the design, once its built people will allow it to grow on them just because it's new and it's finally there.  Remember movies we would watch that we thought sucked at first, but the more we watched them the more we liked them? well, this could be the same way.  Remember, the tenants chosen have just as much of a part at making this neighborhood memorable as the architecture.  I think people can suck it up walking into an ESPN Zone with boring architecture on the outside.  Bottom line...we won't exactly know how it will affect us until we see everything up close and personal.

Its all brown... its all not original

 

It's brick...what color do you want brick to be?

Wow, and people said the Ovation renderings were bad.

 

Ovation is much, much worse...and it is a pipe dream (which is a good thing).

 

On another note before everyone gets their panties in a wad...these are renderings and may not exactly represent what will finally come out of the ground.  This is a graphics person doing his best to conceptualize the product being proposed by the developers.  These will, without a doubt, change to some extent as tenants start to sign and require changes to fit their particular needs/wants.

 

cincyimages, you have to remember that those original renderings were done as a vision for what the community wanted.  They were great, but it is very rare that a community's vision/plan actually come to fruition as they wish after the developers value engineer the hell out of them.  It sucks, but it's reality all across America.

Its all brown... its all not original

 

It's brick...what color do you want brick to be?

 

There are many variants of brick colour that aren't all... of a brown variety. Not to say I hate these renderings, but I want to see more detail and a little more... colour.

^Totally.  I love yellow brick, but you never see that used anymore.

 

Wow, and people said the Ovation renderings were bad.

 

Ovation is much, much worse...and it is a pipe dream (which is a good thing).

 

I'm just saying, both sets of renderings look awful, but a lot of people are giving The Banks the benefit of the doubt for some reason, by saying "these are early" and "it won't really look like this".  And if Ovation IS a pipe dream, that might be good for Cincinnati and The Banks specifically, but I don't see how leaving several blocks of riverfront property empty is good for the region as a whole or for Newport, where the project is.

I can't comprehend how they don't have the final plans already done for this thing.  I mean, at this stage of the game, shouldn't they be showing us what it will actually LOOK like, instead of just conceptual drawings?  I mean, how many sets of "conceptual drawings" do they have to show the public in order to give us "an idea" about how it will look.  Just show us the final plans, for crying out loud.  THAT'S what the public wants to see.  Besides, haven't they done the groundbreaking already?  How could they do that without already having the blueprints in place.

 

With that off my chest, I have to honestly say those renderings are horrid.  And quite frankly, EXACTLY what I expected we'd see when they first proposed the project 10 some-odd years back.  I KNEW we weren't going to end up with anything special to look at, and I was right.  People didn't listen to me back then.

 

Oh well......Cincinnati always wastes its potential on short squatty red-brick buildings.  Why does Covington get modern architecture, and we get this nonsense?

Oh well......Cincinnati always wastes its potential on short squatty red-brick buildings.  Why does Covington get modern architecture, and we get this nonsense?

 

^

Lets not get silly.  What building in Covington is "modern" other than the Ascent? (talk about a building that is "squatty")  The rest of the newer buildings in Covington look exactly the same as, or are worse, than the Banks renderings.  (I guess the revolving restaurant was "modern" 40 years ago.)

 

Cincy has way more examples of modern architecture.  The Freedom Center, the CAC, the Palisades of Mt. Adams and PBS are all big modern buildings built within the past 7 years in Cincy. 

 

And that is just downtown/Mt. Adams.  If you go Uptown you cant throw a rock without hitting a new "modern" building.

I find it utterly comical that folks that are anti-Cincy on just about everything (in this case the Banks) refer to Northern Kentucky as if it is the second coming of Paris France. I'm not really referring to people on this forum but more theneral poulous in general.  I actually do like the Ascent and Covington has a few nice blocks...other than that, Kentucky just ain't doing it for me.