As Banks Plans Take Shape, Think Disney World

http://www.wlwt.com/news/16924801/detail.html?rss=cin&psp=news

July 18, 2008:

 

 

>It looks like they'll only have 2 layers of parking, and I expected 3 or 4.  I'm sure it will be enough, though.

 

Welcome to 10 years ago.  The two decks of "underground" parking were never enough and there has been tons of controversy about how much above ground parking there will be. 

 

>ow grade just incase a flood happens.

 

A flood will happen and these garages will be flooded.  There were water stains on Riverfront Stadium's garage pillars from the 1997 flood. 

OMG, that is such a sweet shot.  Picture the Banks done with QCS finished as well.  I would love to see another 30-40 story on the western side of the skyline eventually.

A flood will happen and these garages will be flooded.  There were water stains on Riverfront Stadium's garage pillars from the 1997 flood. 

 

They are supposed to flood, they are in the flood plain and that's why the developoment is on top of the garages.

As Banks Plans Take Shape, Think Disney World

http://www.wlwt.com/news/16924801/detail.html?rss=cin&psp=news

 

The article mentions ESPN Zone (I think that is just about set in stone seeing as how it is mentioned every single time there is an opportunity), Margaritaville (I could care less), and a Kroger.  Kroger is the most interesting, because they (Kroger) has the opportunity to do something truly amazing there.  They could make it a flagship type store that is cutting edge for urban locations.  I have REALLY high hopes for this, lets hope Kroger comes through.

I don't know that a Kroger would be all that appealing. Urban markets tend to gravitate towards more of the Fresh Market/Whole Foods/Trader Joe's concept -- of offering organic or natural foods, upgraded displays and additional services than what is typically given at any Kroger.

Kroger is better than no grocer. And most Krogers now include a specialty section with the type of stuff they have at Whole Foods. I think with this type of urban location, it would a good place to include even more of this type of stuff.

I don't know that a Kroger would be all that appealing. Urban markets tend to gravitate towards more of the Fresh Market/Whole Foods/Trader Joe's concept -- of offering organic or natural foods, upgraded displays and additional services than what is typically given at any Kroger.

 

I think certain segments of urban markets gravitate towards that...more so than suburban markets.  There is another, maybe larger, chunk of the urban market that just wants to have a store where they can get what they want for a reasonable price.  I like the idea of having a Kroger there, and maybe a natural foods type place up in the CBD (maybe 7th & Vine).

Kroger operates QFC grocery stores out west.  I have been to ones in Seattle and they tend to be smaller and more urban in nature than your typical Kroger store.  Hopefully Kroger would be able to transfer characteristics of these urban stores to an urban Kroger at the Banks if they choose to locate one there.

They are rolling out an upscale Kroger at the Kenwood addition which might be a good model for the Banks.

I would probably live at ESPN Zone

I think the Disney style "wow factor" plan is probably the right direction for the banks. While the original plans were great, to re-create an older style neighborhood probably isn't the best course of action given the revitalization of OTR that is going on.  It is important that the Banks become something unique to Cincinnati and especially differentiated from CBD and OTR and therefore a kind of Disney/Wow theme fits that bill.  Cincy has plenty of older, charming neighborhoods. 

 

ESPN zone is perfect for the Banks.  Mageritavilles not so much; hopefully that changes and something that  would be a specific attraction will come in.  As for a Krogers, again, hopefully it will be something unique. Obviously a store geared more towards urban shoppers would be ideal but hopefully there are other unique features to it, as well.

If an ESPNZone were to sign on the line at the Banks, I think it'd be lights out for any other major tenants questioning the areas success/future.

Flagship urban Kroger at The Banks?

http://www.urbancincy.com/2008/07/flagship-urban-kroger-at-banks.html

Kroger operates QFC grocery stores out west. I have been to ones in Seattle and they tend to be smaller and more urban in nature than your typical Kroger store. Hopefully Kroger would be able to transfer characteristics of these urban stores to an urban Kroger at the Banks if they choose to locate one there.

 

QFC rocks!  I didn't know that was Kroger.  The one that I shopped at was typical suburban size.  I always equated it to Heinen's here in Cleveland.

i wouldnt worry too much. there is almost no question any kroger that would go into the banks would be some kind of modern whole foods styled grocery and not the typical neighborhood kroger. likely much better than the atlanta version shown on the blog link. i would bet on it.

I actually had my first experience at an ESPN zone 2 weeks ago in D.C., and was really disappointed. The food was horrible, there was food all over the floor, and the service was terrible. Aside from that there were tons of TVs and what looked like could be a great place to watch some sports. I'm assuming it was more of a management issue.

^ Yeah, food on the floor and poorly cooked meals aren't an ESPNZone issue, it's a management one. At the same time it's not a Pigall's either, it's a Bdubs on steroids.

As much as i loathe everything Jimmy Buffet, a Margaritaville would make a killing in a city where the term parrothead was invented (according to wikipedia) and where his tickets sell out in a day or two.

^Wasn't there one in the Eastgate area?

^Wasn't there one in the Eastgate area?

 

You're probably thinking of Cheeseburger in Paradise which is not the same thing.

Forgive my ignorance, but why has it taken 3 months to clear the site and remove old foundations?

Forgive my ignorance, but why has it taken 3 months to clear the site and remove old foundations?

 

You do realize that part of Riverfront Stadium was still there, right?

Yes, I do!

Yes, I do!

 

It seems like there has been constant activity up until about last week.  But it looks like they're working on drainage or utility issues now, and hopefully will start building the garage soon.

^

"Drainage! Drainage, Eli, you boy. Drained dry.”

Nothing going on...now  I can understand why this project could take 10-15 years to complete!!  :)

Well guys, Jack, all development takes this long especially when its this big.  The site has been completely cleared and they had to move out all the equipment.  Now they have to transport new machinery back to the site including a crane for the garage.

^^You must not fully understand the land development process, the current economic standing, or the office/residential consumption patterns in Cincinnati and the Midwest as a whole.

Thanks for your answers!

Thanks for your answers!

 

I imagine you're being facetious, but I'll bite anyways...

 

As TheHemroid pointed out, there is a sequence/process with land development.  Even though there may not appear to be any work being done, that does not necessarily mean that's the case.  It could be a transition point where equipment is moving around, they could be waiting on equipment, they could be waiting for certain weather conditions, or whatever.  It is just how things go...and the larger the project, the more so that this is the case (see the WTC site).

 

In terms of the economy, until just recently (and even maybe now) the developers were working on financing deals to make this project happen.  With the whole lending meltdown banks have become severely hesitant to lend money for development projects...especially ones with significant residential.  The economy is in part why the first phase has changed from condos to apartments.  It will be much easier to fill those apartments vs. a condo that someone is going to have to put 20% down on.

 

Then you have Cincy's minimal growth rate (heck it's good that we have any growth by Midwest standards).  So while you may see projects blow full-steam ahead in other more rapidly growing cities that doesn't happen here.  The first phase alone is going to have a couple hundred apartment units in it.  Greater Downtown Cincy (OTR, Westend, Eastend included) usually only absorb a couple hundred/year (when the economy is going good).  So if you did all 3 phases at once and released 1,000+ units onto the market (not counting any other projects going on) then you would flood the market.  Hence the need for a long-term build out time line.

I don't think he is being sarcastic

I just walked by today on the way to the Reds proshop and to admire the work they've done there and with QCS, and it's pretty cool that projects of such magnitude are happening simultaneously in that close of proximity....

 

But anyways,  I noticed that where Freedom Way would cross through the Banks, they did not clear away the dirt and growth.  At both ends where the road would go through there is a slope of dirt with growth on it, but they cleared away everything else around the project.  Anybody know why these spots were at least squared off?

You are correct, I am not being sarcastic, just impatient.

I'm still a believer in making everything SUPER LOCAL.

 

A trendy Fresh Fare instead of a whole foods.  A formal Larossas set up more like a Magianos, but still has a pizza parlor section that stays open late.  A new Maisonette. A GIANT Skyline or a place called "CINCINNATI CHILI" that seats 200 when needed.  A 24 hour Frisch's instead of a steak and shake. A P & G themed retail outlet. A Chiquita themed smoothie cafe. A Toyota or Honda racing complex.  A Bloomingdales (not likely).  A Hudy/CM/Sam Adams themed brew pub.  A Montgomery inn Cafe. A 3-4 Screen movie theater. Throw in a ESPNZONE and a few national acts and you got a hit. 

 

WOW, I LOVE the idea of making it "super local."  I think that will be the key to survival for many cities in the comings years.  And to have it ALL in one concentrated district in a prime tourism spot would make it a destination for sure.

I think someone should formalize a letter to the the central office of each of those companies.  This would have been something amazing at fountain square.

A Christian Moerlein Micro Brew would be beyond fantastic

For Shizzle!     

 

Someone needs to run that by Greg!....... even though I have hopes deep down that one ends up in OTR someday.

For Shizzle!  

 

Someone needs to run that by Greg!....... even though I have hopes deep down that one ends up in OTR someday.

 

Greg knows whats up

Before they open a brewery in OTR they need to learn how to brew their own beer and not have it contracted out to another brewery.

yeah what's the story with that? I've heard that they are under contract to have it brewed in Pennsylvania or somewhere for some amount of time before they can move anywhere.  Anybody know the specs?

Well I don't even drink but if The Banks had a place where they brewed beer right on the river, that would be a hot spot...and pretty damn cool.

yeah what's the story with that? I've heard that they are under contract to have it brewed in Pennsylvania or somewhere for some amount of time before they can move anywhere.  Anybody know the specs?

 

Greg just recently bought the company from its previous owners who moved brewing operations there.  It is my understanding that Greg is actively looking for a Cincinnati location (maybe OTR) for a brewing operation.  A brew-pub also seems to be in the future from what I've heard.

Contract brewing is pretty common in the industry.

Understand, but to open your own brewery I'm pretty sure you need to know how to brew your own beer.......

Jean Robert comes up with the recipies for Jean Ro and Lavomatic and Chalk, but he doesn't cook the food himself.

^But he has cooked before. He was the lead chef at the Maisonette...

Being the executive Chef at a top restaurant is not as glamorous as you would think. There's an unbelievable amount of stress every minute of the day and you end up with serious burns on your hands on a regular basis despite being in a profession that pays over 100k a year. I certainly don't blame him for going that route!

Lets try to keep this already enormous and often wandering thread on topic.