October 7, 200816 yr The juxtaposition of the two sites is pretty jarring, particularly today. I can stand in my office and look left, where QCS is a veritable beehive of giant backhoes and workers, swarming, digging and mashing on every inch of the site...and then glance longingly to the right, where 2-4 guys and a crane operator go about their lonely existence...."10 down 1,990 to go!"....surrounded by acres of nothingness. They do, in fact, make progress...but it seems lethargic and oh so modest given the sheer scale of the project and the physical dimensions of the site. bizarre.
October 8, 200816 yr Yeah, I can't fathom the reason there are not multiple drills/drivers down there working on the pilings.
October 8, 200816 yr I belive, and if someone w/ inside connections can verify, that the same company is doing the piling for both QCS and the Banks. I imagine they'll shift their effort completely to the Banks when they finish the piling for QCS. That's just an educated guess anyhow.
October 8, 200816 yr Unless that's a magical crane with a magical operator drilling 25 holes a day lol. I wouldn't worry about it. Actually you will hardly ever see more than 1 driller per site because of the space it needs. I think there's actually rules about it.
October 8, 200816 yr Also, the camera doesn't really do the site justice because you can't even see the pilings they've put in. I went downtown last weekend and was really surprised by the progress they've made.
October 8, 200816 yr Yea if there were two or more drillers, it would be chaotic trying to move around down there.
October 8, 200816 yr Even so, after 10 years of waiting, and the fact that this is a billion dollar+ project, this should be moving faster than it is. When QCS said they were building the building and then started the demo of the garage, it has been non stop work there. When LA broke ground on their LA Live project (a similar project to The Banks), they moved full steam ahead and now are almost done. I know this is Cincinnati, and that things take longer there, but this is exactly the shit that gets so tiring, and exactly why so many people move out of there. Progress is being made in Cincy, but it happens so slow, and in small packages, that it's hard to tell.
October 8, 200816 yr Nobody here knows if this is typical or if this is slow or has any kind of insider information because if they did and they shared it on the internet they'd get fired. What we do know is that when Paul Brown Stadium was rushed by an artificial deadline imposed by Mike Brown, the county was burdened with tens of millions of extra debt that has been the primary reason why The Banks has taken so long to develop. Those overruns ate into money that was to have built these garages 8 years ago. But I've learned from posting on these forums that most people seem to think money comes out of thin air, so I'm not sure how much I'm wasting my breath making posts like this.
October 8, 200816 yr Some people just think that developers just pull this money out of their asses. Because they probably don't have all the funding for the next step after the garages and pilings are done, there is no rush to finish the garages. They can't move on to the next step without most, if not all, the funding is lined up.
October 8, 200816 yr It's on schedule! A project as high a profile (w/ it's history) as this will always have it's critics..... Even when this is completed, their will be those that STILL put their two cents in as if they could have made this go faster if they were in charge. Hopefully we learn from our mistakes. (and not allow city/county to be involved with a project like this, even though we will never see one like this again.) Call it constructive criticism or whatever you want, but once these piers are in the ground and steel is on site for the above ground columns, then we will be cookin!!!!
October 8, 200816 yr The thing I have found strange about this is that such a small amount of equipment with such little progress on a site of this magnitude is an extreme money burner for the developer. And for the Hemroids comment about "chaotic" with two or three rigs on that site, that is not so. I have run 6 to upwards of 8 rigs on a site of that size. The goal would be to go 400' per hour without running below 2500' per day to stay productive. The webcam may be missing some of the site, so I may not be seeing some of the equipment. Right now, personnel wise, there looks to be about 1 operator, 1 crane, and 2, possibly 3 piledrivers.
October 8, 200816 yr No, people don't learn from mistakes on projects like this because there are always young people coming up who haven't been burned, never started a business let alone managed somebody else's, etc., who don't think adults don't know what they're doing. In a worst-case economic forecast this project now faces the very real possibility of being built and there being virtually no market-rate commercial or residential renting for several years. This heavily subsidized activity will draw people and business away from areas of the city where people are renting fair & square. Just like how UC's new dorm and subsidized storefronts on Calhoun killed the Short Vine business district, something similar is a very real threat, especially in dire economic conditions.
October 8, 200816 yr Would using minority companies possibly be an issue with holding up a project of this size? (Even though I keep being told this is on schedule.) Not to question the intentions or integrity of these businesses, but are they equipped to take on this scope of work?
October 8, 200816 yr Would using minority companies possibly be an issue with holding up a project of this size? (Even though I keep being told this is on schedule.) Not to question the intentions or integrity of these businesses, but are they equipped to take on this scope of work? Most of the construction companies you see in the city are minority firms. Maybe the companies CEO's wife or mother owns it. FBE, MBE requirements are always big in the city, especially on projects of this size. So yes, I am sure this company is capable. Who by the way is the Construction Manager/General Contractor?
October 8, 200816 yr I feel that this whole conversation about the rate of construction is a waste of time. We'll get an update eventually and most of these questions will be answered. Who really cares how much (or little) equipment is down there as long as it is on schedule. The most recent reports have said that it is indeed on schedule, so until I hear otherwise I'll believe that.
October 8, 200816 yr Construction and safety rules aside, there is usually an extremely high time cost of money involved with money borrowed with interest that would necessitate getting this stuff done as quick as possible (e.g. it would be cheaper to pay multiple operators more up front to get it done quickly, then to pay one guy to do it slowly due to other costs already sunk into the project and paid with borrowed funds). Maybe the county/developers have not borrowed this money and it is cheaper to pay one guy to go slow, I don't know.
October 8, 200816 yr Choo! Choo! It's full steam ahead for The Banks :D Or is that the trolley streetcar? /expects to be flogged and beaten by Randy
October 8, 200816 yr Just like how UC's new dorm and subsidized storefronts on Calhoun killed the Short Vine business district, something similar is a very real threat, especially in dire economic conditions. As a UC student, I don't buy this for one minute. There is only one business that moved from Short Vine to UPA and that Kinko's, which had an absolutely horrible location in an even worse designed shopping center. UPA is still hurting for tenants and has already lost one in its short time. Vine Street has turned into crap because of poor design, irresponsible owners, and bad reputation.
October 9, 200816 yr The killing happened 8-10 years ago. UC directed investment toward the Calhoun corridor and that left Short Vine high and dry (that and losing pop. due to hospital closings and generally destroying the neighborhood).
October 9, 200816 yr >As a UC student, I don't buy this for one minute If you're a UC student currently, you can't remember when Vine was the most active strip in town. Short Vine wasn't just a neighborhood strip, it was a destination for the whole city. UC stole not just Kinko's (which was 24 hours in its heyday) but also BW3's. The firing of Bob Huggins hurt the Vine sports bars as well. >Vine Street has turned into crap because of poor design, irresponsible owners, and bad reputation. How can Vine St. property owners attract chain tenants when UC gives its tenants a new space with strip mall bolted-on brick and ridiculous breaks on rent? The cutoff of the street by University Plaza around 1965 dropped the rents and enabled the very eclecticism that made Short Vine great for several decades. What changed? To some extent the rise of Northside, but more directly UC playing Sim City.
October 9, 200816 yr The cutoff of the street by University Plaza around 1965 dropped the rents and enabled the very eclecticism that made Short Vine great for several decades. What changed? To some extent the rise of Northside, but more directly UC playing Sim City. Exactly!!! It had everything in the 70's, and it was nice because it WAS cut off!
October 9, 200816 yr Not just anyone can rent a storefront at UPA. Even if they are subsidized, they are VERY particular about who they'll allow as tenants in UPA. That's why there were vacant spots forever. Holding out for more diversity in tenants. I agree, I hate the social engineering going on in uptown.
October 9, 200816 yr Short Vine was hoppin in the 80's too right? It'll get back to where it was but it's going to be very different within the next 10 years. Irresponsible owners, for some reason, all migrate to a place together. It's a very strange thing indeed. One owner who's laizy finds a bunch of stores with other owners that are laizy and presto, you get crap for shopping lol.
October 9, 200816 yr What changed? To some extent the rise of Northside, but more directly UC playing Sim City. Northside wasn't even on the rise until around the turn of this century. Maybe a couple years earlier. I couldn't disagree more that Northside's success had anything to do with the fall of Short Vine. And if I were UC, I would be playing "Sim City" too. They're there to run a business and protect their investments. You'll have to expound, as I don't know how you're correlating UC, Short Vine, and some sort of control imposed on the district.
October 14, 200816 yr What's going on with the Banks, are those giant holes? http://207.250.90.73/mjpg/video.mjpg
October 14, 200816 yr What's going on with the Banks, are those giant holes? http://207.250.90.73/mjpg/video.mjpg Perhaps they found oil.
October 21, 200816 yr New Banks investor steps forward By Keith T. Reed • [email protected] • October 21, 2008 The Atlanta developers behind The Banks, the planned $1 billion Cincinnati waterfront project, disclosed today that another firm has made a substantial investment in the project. USAA Real Estate Co. is contributing more than half of the $12 million developer equity portion of the $74 million in financing for the first phase of the project. Full story text is available at http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20081021/BIZ01/310210023
October 21, 200816 yr Watch the Banks progress on the Internet Cincinnati Enquirer, October 21, 2008 The Banks riverfront project now has a Web site offering progress updates, schedules and photos. Full story text is available by selecting the headline
October 21, 200816 yr New Banks investor steps forward By Keith T. Reed • [email protected] • October 21, 2008 The Atlanta developers behind The Banks, the planned $1 billion Cincinnati waterfront project, disclosed today that another firm has made a substantial investment in the project. USAA Real Estate Co. is contributing more than half of the $12 million developer equity portion of the $74 million in financing for the first phase of the project. Full story text is available at http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20081021/BIZ01/310210023 Man, Carter Real Estate and the Dawson Co. are getting a sweet deal with phase one. They are only putting less than $6 million of their own money on a $74 million dollar project. Hopefully they will show more financial support in future phases.
October 21, 200816 yr I took this image off of Carter & Dawson's Press Release. How set are they in these designs? The building labeled 1B is designated for Office Use, and in my opinion, I hope the final design looks nothing like this box. http://www.carterdawson.com/banks/MonthlyProgressReports/082008/20080918_August_presentation.pdf
October 21, 200816 yr 1B, 1C and 1D look like placeholders. I dont think they know exactly what the hotel, office building or condos will look like.
October 21, 200816 yr That's what it looks like, because 1C and 1D pretty much look like white boxes with no detail or style that resembles anything like the revised plans. 1B looks fairly generic as well, although a glass box can look pretty inviting -- like the new Caresource tower in Dayton. I am suspecting 1A goes along with Phase 1A, and will be the first to be completed; 1B will be Phase 1B and will be completed later, and so forth.
October 21, 200816 yr Yes it is definately a placeholder. Hopefully everything is just a placeholder. Carter & Dawson did say they were going to rework the designs on what they had proposed a few months ago making everything in that image out of date. Hopefully we see something new soon. The Caresource tower in dayton isnt exactly a glass box either. Yes, the mojority of the cladding is glass but there is a pretty good amount geometry articulation. A few of the towers at atlantic station are more boxy than caresource...so thats probably a better idea of what to expect.
October 21, 200816 yr That's cute... their project schedule is done in Primavera. I remember learning about that program. This will be pretty neat once vertical construction starts.
October 21, 200816 yr October 21, 2008 Banks developer: Hotel will happen By Keith T. Reed [email protected] The Atlanta developers behind The Banks are moving forward with plans to build a waterfront boutique hotel at the site, an executive involved with the project said today. Carter & Associates Commercial Services LLC and the Dawson Co. are actively looking for a hotel operator that fits with their vision of a residential, entertainment, dining and retail district on the north bank of the Ohio River, said S. Jerome Hagley III, Dawson’s executive vice president and chief operating officer. Full story text is available at http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20081021/BIZ01/310210023
October 21, 200816 yr Sounds good to me. Let the condos wait for the next phases and give the market a chance to catch up. I'm sure some of the other developers are thankful that they are going to wait on condos at The Banks.
October 22, 200816 yr Has anyone heard anything about the moving of Mehring? Shouldn't that be happening with the park and phase 1?
October 22, 200816 yr ^ Good luck trying to get that answer. Haha...ive asked a number of times on this thread and on the Riverfront Park thread and nobody seems to know. I personally dont see how it wont happen during phase 1. Its configuration, it seems, is pretty critical to the work that will be happening both with The Banks and the park.
October 22, 200816 yr I would suggest sending an email or writing a letter to someone at Cincinnati's Department of Transportation and Engineering.
October 22, 200816 yr It's funny how easy that is: Thank you for your inquiry into the Mehring Way Relocation project. The project is on-going and is scheduled to complete the eastern portion of the street relocation (east of the Suspension Bridge) in the first or second quarter of 2010 to coincide with the Banks Garage opening. The actually opening date is somewhat dependent upon coordination with construction of the Riverfront Park and various utilities (water, gas, electricity, etc). Construction of the western portion of Mehring Way is dependent upon meeting parking obligations to the sports teams and work will be phased and timed accordingly. This work is tentatively scheduled to be complete in 2011, but may be advance earlier if adequate replacement parking arrangements can be accommodated. Please feel free to contact me directly if you need additional information about the Banks project and the street grid work. Michael Moore
October 22, 200816 yr It's funny how easy that is: this is why Michael Moore One of the best public servants that work for the city.
October 22, 200816 yr ^^Yup...that's what I figured, and that's why I suggested emailing the City's DOTE. Michael Moore is a great guy.
October 22, 200816 yr Thanks for the picture of MM - now dinner (and probably breakfast) is ruined for - probably a lot of people - ugh!
October 22, 200816 yr Thanks for the picture of MM - now dinner (and probably breakfast) is ruined for - probably a lot of people - ugh! Haha...that's what I was thinking.
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