interesting how people percieve a hole dug 6 years ago vs a hole dug last month as progress beyond comparison.  and from what i can tell, both of the project sites are just huge mud pits.  one just happens to be deeper.  i think people take comfort in bashing the banks and i agree that not matter its success, it will always be the punch line in "stupid cincinnati" remarks.

The Banks and the Freedom Center have been added to the list of the never-completed subway and the stadiums as the items that people use to justify any opposition argument.  Fountain Square's renovation was on that list, but has since removed itself (The Banks may do the same one day).

Don't forget 5th and Race/ Nordstrom and Main Street/ race riots.

 

An uphill battle for any urban project, and not neccessarily a fair one.

After reading up on my history, I can admit that if I lived in Cincy back in 2001, I probably would have emotionally disconnected from downtown too. I can see how it easily becomes an "us versus them" mentality, whether separated by race, politics, or just lifestyle.

 

So it's easy to (falsely) blame stalled projects like the Banks on some overall failure of the urban core. It's emotionally convenient. And certainly, I've NEVER lived in a city where the bureaucrasy seems to move as slowly as Cincinnati. That's a legit problem that somehow needs to be addressed.

 

All this is why it's so vital that the Banks project becomes a smashing success! Obviously, the Fountain Square renovation has been a big hit with the YP crowd. (As I've mentioned before, thanks to negative stereotypes, my wife and I were kind of depressed at the prospect of relocating to Cincy. However, spending the weekend at the Fountain Square Westin really helped change our perspective.) But not everyone has the income or inclination to spend time at Palomino or JeanRo.

 

Hopefully the Banks can fill a niche for those "meat and potatoes" people who just want to easily park their car and go to a chain restaurant. I truly think that the Banks will change the minds of many suburbanites. It will appeal to them in the same way that NKY does - but the Banks will be truly walkable and interconnected. Judging by Atlanta's reaction to Atlantic station, the Banks is going to do wonders for suburbanites' impression of the core.

 

So anyway, sorry for the rant. But as frustrating as it is, I think all the negativity will fade away one the Banks actually opens.

So it's easy to (falsely) blame stalled projects like the Banks on some overall failure of the urban core. It's emotionally convenient.

 

I agree with this.

 

And certainly, I've NEVER lived in a city where the bureaucrasy seems to move as slowly as Cincinnati.

 

I've seen a lot worse.

After reading up on my history, I can admit that if I lived in Cincy back in 2001, I probably would have emotionally disconnected from downtown too. I can see how it easily becomes an "us versus them" mentality, whether separated by race, politics, or just lifestyle.

 

So it's easy to (falsely) blame stalled projects like the Banks on some overall failure of the urban core. It's emotionally convenient. And certainly, I've NEVER lived in a city where the bureaucrasy seems to move as slowly as Cincinnati. That's a legit problem that somehow needs to be addressed.

 

All this is why it's so vital that the Banks project becomes a smashing success! Obviously, the Fountain Square renovation has been a big hit with the YP crowd. (As I've mentioned before, thanks to negative stereotypes, my wife and I were kind of depressed at the prospect of relocating to Cincy. However, spending the weekend at the Fountain Square Westin really helped change our perspective.) But not everyone has the income or inclination to spend time at Palomino or JeanRo.

 

Hopefully the Banks can fill a niche for those "meat and potatoes" people who just want to easily park their car and go to a chain restaurant. I truly think that the Banks will change the minds of many suburbanites. It will appeal to them in the same way that NKY does - but the Banks will be truly walkable and interconnected. Judging by Atlanta's reaction to Atlantic station, the Banks is going to do wonders for suburbanites' impression of the core.

 

So anyway, sorry for the rant. But as frustrating as it is, I think all the negativity will fade away one the Banks actually opens.

 

I hate to say this but other cities of similar size are light years ahead of Cincinnati, even downtown Cincinnati. Look at Baltimore - which is a major haven for crime and generally seen as a more intimidating, undesirable place on the east coast - they have a spectacular waterfront and they had a Banks already built in the early 90s.

The same can be said the other way.  I take Cincy's downtown/urban core over Cleveland, Detroit, Atlanta, Charlotte, Tampa, Miami, Salt Lake City, Phoenix, Houston, and Dallas to name a few.  New Orleans would also probably make that list.  Cincy's problem is that it's a Midwestern city (kind of).  By Midwestern standards Cincy ain't doing too bad...but when compared to the east/west coast we look like hell.

I mostly agree, except for Salt Lake.  They have done incredible things with their downtown and transportation.  I would say with the completion of the Banks, Central Riverfront Park, and Streetcar, downtown/core area of Cincinnati would be one of the premeir urban spaces in the country.  The biggest of those projects? The streetcar.

I mostly agree, except for Salt Lake. They have done incredible things with their downtown and transportation. I would say with the completion of the Banks, Central Riverfront Park, and Streetcar, downtown/core area of Cincinnati would be one of the premeir urban spaces in the country. The biggest of those projects? The streetcar.

 

Yeah and lets not forget those great successful transit systems that they make look like they just popped up accidentally, out of nowhere. Phx and SLC to name a few. That's incredible considering SLC's tallest structure is a bus stop.

After reading up on my history, I can admit that if I lived in Cincy back in 2001, I probably would have emotionally disconnected from downtown too. I can see how it easily becomes an "us versus them" mentality, whether separated by race, politics, or just lifestyle.

 

So it's easy to (falsely) blame stalled projects like the Banks on some overall failure of the urban core. It's emotionally convenient. And certainly, I've NEVER lived in a city where the bureaucrasy seems to move as slowly as Cincinnati. That's a legit problem that somehow needs to be addressed.

 

All this is why it's so vital that the Banks project becomes a smashing success! Obviously, the Fountain Square renovation has been a big hit with the YP crowd. (As I've mentioned before, thanks to negative stereotypes, my wife and I were kind of depressed at the prospect of relocating to Cincy. However, spending the weekend at the Fountain Square Westin really helped change our perspective.) But not everyone has the income or inclination to spend time at Palomino or JeanRo.

 

Hopefully the Banks can fill a niche for those "meat and potatoes" people who just want to easily park their car and go to a chain restaurant. I truly think that the Banks will change the minds of many suburbanites. It will appeal to them in the same way that NKY does - but the Banks will be truly walkable and interconnected. Judging by Atlanta's reaction to Atlantic station, the Banks is going to do wonders for suburbanites' impression of the core.

 

So anyway, sorry for the rant. But as frustrating as it is, I think all the negativity will fade away one the Banks actually opens.

 

I hate to say this but other cities of similar size are light years ahead of Cincinnati, even downtown Cincinnati. Look at Baltimore - which is a major haven for crime and generally seen as a more intimidating, undesirable place on the east coast - they have a spectacular waterfront and they had a Banks already built in the early 90s.

 

It's funny that you bring this up, because this is the first thing that came in mind ...

 

When I was standing on the harbor I was speaking with a lady that lived there and I was complimenting her city and she replied ... "Oh, this didn't happen overnight ... this is 30 years in the making." (complaining about the same thing we are).

But while we're still digging holes, they're reaping the benefits.  Oh well, I'd rather be Cincinnati over Baltimore any day.  They have incredible crime problems, and the city out side of the Harbor is pretty ghetto.  I do love how it's so close to DC, Philly, and NYC though.

But while we're still digging holes, they're reaping the benefits. Oh well, I'd rather be Cincinnati over Baltimore any day. They have incredible crime problems, and the city out side of the Harbor is pretty ghetto. I do love how it's so close to DC, Philly, and NYC though.

 

But the point is how long it takes to get the ball rolling ...

 

I just looked it up:

 

The Baltimore Harbor was spearheaded by Baltimore Mayor William Donald Schaefer. Guess what, he died in 1987. What does this tell you? lol

Bawlmore was first really with the Inner Harbor- Portside in Toledo was an attempt to copy it. The Festival Marketplaces were the 'thing' to have in the downtowns in the 1980s. The other reality concerning Baltimore (and many East Coast cities) is that those areas have become playgrounds for rich white suburbanites and to some degree urbanites - the Inner Harbor is mostly privately controlled. Center City Philly does a better job (I think) having something for everyone. I think Cincy could be that kind of dt with the streetcar and the Banks coming to fruition.

Center City Philly does a better job (I think) having something for everyone. I think Cincy could be that kind of dt with the streetcar and the Banks coming to fruition.

 

Exactly right.  The streetcar will connect the tourists and suburbanites who come to The Banks with the local independent chains located in OTR.  This is the free-market at its best and we have the opportunity to connect all of those parts.

Baltimore's Inner Harbor was driven by need from a city that had hit the bottom of the barrel in the 70's and needed a massive makeover.  In contrast, Cincinnati's downtown was one of the best in the nation in the 70's and early 80's.  There were five department stores, tons of retail, great restaurants, a relatively new stadium and arena, and Fountain Square was just redone in 1969-1970.  So, I don't know that a timeline comparison is actually an accurate measure of success or "being light years ahead".  Necessity drives everything, and Cincinnati did not have the need until more recently, nor had it fallen as far as Baltimore. 

 

That being said, I too wish things moved much faster around here.

Baltimore's Inner Harbor was driven by need from a city that had hit the bottom of the barrel in the 70's and needed a massive makeover. In contrast, Cincinnati's downtown was one of the best in the nation in the 70's and early 80's. There were five department stores, tons of retail, great restaurants, a relatively new stadium and arena, and Fountain Square was just redone in 1969-1970. So, I don't know that a timeline comparison is actually an accurate measure of success or "being light years ahead". Necessity drives everything, and Cincinnati did not have the need until more recently, nor had it fallen as far as Baltimore.

 

 

Damn you with your logic!

I don't know what all the fuss is about.  I went by The Banks site for the first time in a few months today, and there's been a ton of progress.  There are several (possibly dozens?) of posts rising up from the ground.  I find it hard to believe that anyone who saw the site last year would think that nothing is happening there.

Necessity drives everything

 

Detroit

St. Louis

Camden

 

These places haven't bottomed out enough? I think faith, consensus, and having a diverse economy with potential for growth help more than simply bottoming out and realizing you need to finally do something.

 

After reading up on my history, I can admit that if I lived in Cincy back in 2001, I probably would have emotionally disconnected from downtown too. I can see how it easily becomes an "us versus them" mentality, whether separated by race, politics, or just lifestyle.

 

So it's easy to (falsely) blame stalled projects like the Banks on some overall failure of the urban core. It's emotionally convenient. And certainly, I've NEVER lived in a city where the bureaucrasy seems to move as slowly as Cincinnati. That's a legit problem that somehow needs to be addressed.

 

All this is why it's so vital that the Banks project becomes a smashing success! Obviously, the Fountain Square renovation has been a big hit with the YP crowd. (As I've mentioned before, thanks to negative stereotypes, my wife and I were kind of depressed at the prospect of relocating to Cincy. However, spending the weekend at the Fountain Square Westin really helped change our perspective.) But not everyone has the income or inclination to spend time at Palomino or JeanRo.

 

Hopefully the Banks can fill a niche for those "meat and potatoes" people who just want to easily park their car and go to a chain restaurant. I truly think that the Banks will change the minds of many suburbanites. It will appeal to them in the same way that NKY does - but the Banks will be truly walkable and interconnected. Judging by Atlanta's reaction to Atlantic station, the Banks is going to do wonders for suburbanites' impression of the core.

 

So anyway, sorry for the rant. But as frustrating as it is, I think all the negativity will fade away one the Banks actually opens.

 

I hate to say this but other cities of similar size are light years ahead of Cincinnati, even downtown Cincinnati. Look at Baltimore - which is a major haven for crime and generally seen as a more intimidating, undesirable place on the east coast - they have a spectacular waterfront and they had a Banks already built in the early 90s.

 

It's funny that you bring this up, because this is the first thing that came in mind ...

 

When I was standing on the harbor I was speaking with a lady that lived there and I was complimenting her city and she replied ... "Oh, this didn't happen overnight ... this is 30 years in the making." (complaining about the same thing we are).

 

While she's currently enjoying her waterfront and 13 mile subway / at grade/ elevated rail system. Yeah, it makes sense that 2 cities reach a peak at different points in time but people like me aren't going to wait around for city X to be like city Y 20 years prior or later.

 

The "People who go downtown to shop in Baltimore are suburbanites" argument is so lame to me. Most workers in the downtown of cities are already suburbanites. It's always good to bring money into the city. Some of you act like suburbanites are a sub-human species. That's actually quite impressive since theoretically, suburbanites should fear the hell out of the inner city of Baltimore.

Go much beyond the harbor or downtown, and I fear inner city Baltimore! lol

Necessity drives everything

 

Detroit

St. Louis

Camden

 

These places haven't bottomed out enough? I think faith, consensus, and having a diverse economy with potential for growth help more than simply bottoming out and realizing you need to finally do something.

 

After reading up on my history, I can admit that if I lived in Cincy back in 2001, I probably would have emotionally disconnected from downtown too. I can see how it easily becomes an "us versus them" mentality, whether separated by race, politics, or just lifestyle.

 

So it's easy to (falsely) blame stalled projects like the Banks on some overall failure of the urban core. It's emotionally convenient. And certainly, I've NEVER lived in a city where the bureaucrasy seems to move as slowly as Cincinnati. That's a legit problem that somehow needs to be addressed.

 

All this is why it's so vital that the Banks project becomes a smashing success! Obviously, the Fountain Square renovation has been a big hit with the YP crowd. (As I've mentioned before, thanks to negative stereotypes, my wife and I were kind of depressed at the prospect of relocating to Cincy. However, spending the weekend at the Fountain Square Westin really helped change our perspective.) But not everyone has the income or inclination to spend time at Palomino or JeanRo.

 

Hopefully the Banks can fill a niche for those "meat and potatoes" people who just want to easily park their car and go to a chain restaurant. I truly think that the Banks will change the minds of many suburbanites. It will appeal to them in the same way that NKY does - but the Banks will be truly walkable and interconnected. Judging by Atlanta's reaction to Atlantic station, the Banks is going to do wonders for suburbanites' impression of the core.

 

So anyway, sorry for the rant. But as frustrating as it is, I think all the negativity will fade away one the Banks actually opens.

 

I hate to say this but other cities of similar size are light years ahead of Cincinnati, even downtown Cincinnati. Look at Baltimore - which is a major haven for crime and generally seen as a more intimidating, undesirable place on the east coast - they have a spectacular waterfront and they had a Banks already built in the early 90s.

 

It's funny that you bring this up, because this is the first thing that came in mind ...

 

When I was standing on the harbor I was speaking with a lady that lived there and I was complimenting her city and she replied ... "Oh, this didn't happen overnight ... this is 30 years in the making." (complaining about the same thing we are).

 

While she's currently enjoying her waterfront and 13 mile subway / at grade/ elevated rail system. Yeah, it makes sense that 2 cities reach a peak at different points in time but people like me aren't going to wait around for city X to be like city Y 20 years prior or later.

 

Yes. ~30 years later.

 

So, you're saying that if Cincinnati started on the Banks in the 70's we would still be working on finishing it in 2009?

 

Come on man, you know I like you bro, but you're not making any sense ... especially with the Bmore example. Remember, the mayor that spearheaded the project died in '76! If anything -Bmore is the perfect example of a city that has lagged in progression in comparison to Cincy.

 

 

Necessity drives everything

 

Detroit

St. Louis

Camden

 

These places haven't bottomed out enough? I think faith, consensus, and having a diverse economy with potential for growth help more than simply bottoming out and realizing you need to finally do something.

 

After reading up on my history, I can admit that if I lived in Cincy back in 2001, I probably would have emotionally disconnected from downtown too. I can see how it easily becomes an "us versus them" mentality, whether separated by race, politics, or just lifestyle.

 

So it's easy to (falsely) blame stalled projects like the Banks on some overall failure of the urban core. It's emotionally convenient. And certainly, I've NEVER lived in a city where the bureaucrasy seems to move as slowly as Cincinnati. That's a legit problem that somehow needs to be addressed.

 

All this is why it's so vital that the Banks project becomes a smashing success! Obviously, the Fountain Square renovation has been a big hit with the YP crowd. (As I've mentioned before, thanks to negative stereotypes, my wife and I were kind of depressed at the prospect of relocating to Cincy. However, spending the weekend at the Fountain Square Westin really helped change our perspective.) But not everyone has the income or inclination to spend time at Palomino or JeanRo.

 

Hopefully the Banks can fill a niche for those "meat and potatoes" people who just want to easily park their car and go to a chain restaurant. I truly think that the Banks will change the minds of many suburbanites. It will appeal to them in the same way that NKY does - but the Banks will be truly walkable and interconnected. Judging by Atlanta's reaction to Atlantic station, the Banks is going to do wonders for suburbanites' impression of the core.

 

So anyway, sorry for the rant. But as frustrating as it is, I think all the negativity will fade away one the Banks actually opens.

 

I hate to say this but other cities of similar size are light years ahead of Cincinnati, even downtown Cincinnati. Look at Baltimore - which is a major haven for crime and generally seen as a more intimidating, undesirable place on the east coast - they have a spectacular waterfront and they had a Banks already built in the early 90s.

 

It's funny that you bring this up, because this is the first thing that came in mind ...

 

When I was standing on the harbor I was speaking with a lady that lived there and I was complimenting her city and she replied ... "Oh, this didn't happen overnight ... this is 30 years in the making." (complaining about the same thing we are).

 

While she's currently enjoying her waterfront and 13 mile subway / at grade/ elevated rail system. Yeah, it makes sense that 2 cities reach a peak at different points in time but people like me aren't going to wait around for city X to be like city Y 20 years prior or later.

 

Yes. ~30 years later.

 

So, you're saying that if Cincinnati started on the Banks in the 70's we would still be working on finishing it in 2009?

 

Come on man, you know I like you bro, but you're not making any sense ... especially with the Bmore example. Remember, the mayor that spearheaded the project died in '76! If anything -Bmore is the perfect example of a city that has lagged in progression in comparison to Cincy.

 

 

 

 

I'm looking at 2 cities at the same point in time because I live in the present. Cincinnati may get the Banks done and it may be very successful but by then, what will have come to fruition in Baltimore?

 

I'm sick of arguing about this.

 

I don't even like Baltimore. Who the hell eats Crab Cakes? That sounds like it should be a New Orleans delicacy.

 

 

Btw Baltimore isn't really that hood if you ask me. There's some stunning gentrified neighborhoods that I've seen. Federal Hill and (image below) Mt. Vernon are a few I've seen.

 

 

 

Necessity drives everything

 

 

Detroit

St. Louis

Camden

 

These places haven't bottomed out enough? I think faith, consensus, and having a diverse economy with potential for growth help more than simply bottoming out and realizing you need to finally do something.

 

Necessity drives everything by identifying the problem and spurring the action, which then takes ambition, resources, wherewithal, etc. to make the vision a reality.

^Oh no David, Baltimore is mad ghetto.  That picture is essentially downtown, and is a pretty safe area, but if you wonder I few blocks to the right of that picture, bad news.  Basically the city is decent from that nice hill top neighborhood across the harbor, up to about Penn Station (their rail terminal).  After spending the day there, it was very nice to go back to DC haha.

Necessity drives everything

 

Detroit

St. Louis

Camden

 

These places haven't bottomed out enough? I think faith, consensus, and having a diverse economy with potential for growth help more than simply bottoming out and realizing you need to finally do something.

 

After reading up on my history, I can admit that if I lived in Cincy back in 2001, I probably would have emotionally disconnected from downtown too. I can see how it easily becomes an "us versus them" mentality, whether separated by race, politics, or just lifestyle.

 

So it's easy to (falsely) blame stalled projects like the Banks on some overall failure of the urban core. It's emotionally convenient. And certainly, I've NEVER lived in a city where the bureaucrasy seems to move as slowly as Cincinnati. That's a legit problem that somehow needs to be addressed.

 

All this is why it's so vital that the Banks project becomes a smashing success! Obviously, the Fountain Square renovation has been a big hit with the YP crowd. (As I've mentioned before, thanks to negative stereotypes, my wife and I were kind of depressed at the prospect of relocating to Cincy. However, spending the weekend at the Fountain Square Westin really helped change our perspective.) But not everyone has the income or inclination to spend time at Palomino or JeanRo.

 

Hopefully the Banks can fill a niche for those "meat and potatoes" people who just want to easily park their car and go to a chain restaurant. I truly think that the Banks will change the minds of many suburbanites. It will appeal to them in the same way that NKY does - but the Banks will be truly walkable and interconnected. Judging by Atlanta's reaction to Atlantic station, the Banks is going to do wonders for suburbanites' impression of the core.

 

So anyway, sorry for the rant. But as frustrating as it is, I think all the negativity will fade away one the Banks actually opens.

 

I hate to say this but other cities of similar size are light years ahead of Cincinnati, even downtown Cincinnati. Look at Baltimore - which is a major haven for crime and generally seen as a more intimidating, undesirable place on the east coast - they have a spectacular waterfront and they had a Banks already built in the early 90s.

 

It's funny that you bring this up, because this is the first thing that came in mind ...

 

When I was standing on the harbor I was speaking with a lady that lived there and I was complimenting her city and she replied ... "Oh, this didn't happen overnight ... this is 30 years in the making." (complaining about the same thing we are).

 

While she's currently enjoying her waterfront and 13 mile subway / at grade/ elevated rail system. Yeah, it makes sense that 2 cities reach a peak at different points in time but people like me aren't going to wait around for city X to be like city Y 20 years prior or later.

 

Yes. ~30 years later.

 

So, you're saying that if Cincinnati started on the Banks in the 70's we would still be working on finishing it in 2009?

 

Come on man, you know I like you bro, but you're not making any sense ... especially with the Bmore example. Remember, the mayor that spearheaded the project died in '76! If anything -Bmore is the perfect example of a city that has lagged in progression in comparison to Cincy.

 

 

 

 

I'm looking at 2 cities at the same point in time because I live in the present.

 

... but the point of the argument in the first place was the time-frame it took to complete projects in improving our Downtowns. In which the point I made was that it took Bmore ~30 years to complete a very similar project.

 

I'm done with it too.

^Oh no David, Baltimore is mad ghetto. That picture is essentially downtown, and is a pretty safe area, but if you wonder I few blocks to the right of that picture, bad news. Basically the city is decent from that nice hill top neighborhood across the harbor, up to about Penn Station (their rail terminal). After spending the day there, it was very nice to go back to DC haha.

 

I saw a wreath memorial sitting on a tri-pod on one of their CBD streets that would compare with our 4th St, the guy was gunned down.

Necessity drives everything

 

 

Detroit

St. Louis

Camden

 

These places haven't bottomed out enough? I think faith, consensus, and having a diverse economy with potential for growth help more than simply bottoming out and realizing you need to finally do something.

 

Necessity drives everything by identifying the problem and spurring the action, which then takes ambition, resources, wherewithal, etc. to make the vision a reality.

 

Yup...Detroit's problems have spurred reaction - People Mover, stadiums, casinos, Ren Center.  St. Louis has seen light rail and the new ballpark.  And other cities have seen their reactions as well.  Necessity does prompt big change and big plans, but that change and those plans aren't always the right ones (see Detroit).

pic deleted due to crappiness, plus better ones are below.

Necessity drives everything

 

Detroit

St. Louis

Camden

 

These places haven't bottomed out enough? I think faith, consensus, and having a diverse economy with potential for growth help more than simply bottoming out and realizing you need to finally do something.

 

After reading up on my history, I can admit that if I lived in Cincy back in 2001, I probably would have emotionally disconnected from downtown too. I can see how it easily becomes an "us versus them" mentality, whether separated by race, politics, or just lifestyle.

 

So it's easy to (falsely) blame stalled projects like the Banks on some overall failure of the urban core. It's emotionally convenient. And certainly, I've NEVER lived in a city where the bureaucrasy seems to move as slowly as Cincinnati. That's a legit problem that somehow needs to be addressed.

 

All this is why it's so vital that the Banks project becomes a smashing success! Obviously, the Fountain Square renovation has been a big hit with the YP crowd. (As I've mentioned before, thanks to negative stereotypes, my wife and I were kind of depressed at the prospect of relocating to Cincy. However, spending the weekend at the Fountain Square Westin really helped change our perspective.) But not everyone has the income or inclination to spend time at Palomino or JeanRo.

 

Hopefully the Banks can fill a niche for those "meat and potatoes" people who just want to easily park their car and go to a chain restaurant. I truly think that the Banks will change the minds of many suburbanites. It will appeal to them in the same way that NKY does - but the Banks will be truly walkable and interconnected. Judging by Atlanta's reaction to Atlantic station, the Banks is going to do wonders for suburbanites' impression of the core.

 

So anyway, sorry for the rant. But as frustrating as it is, I think all the negativity will fade away one the Banks actually opens.

 

I hate to say this but other cities of similar size are light years ahead of Cincinnati, even downtown Cincinnati. Look at Baltimore - which is a major haven for crime and generally seen as a more intimidating, undesirable place on the east coast - they have a spectacular waterfront and they had a Banks already built in the early 90s.

 

It's funny that you bring this up, because this is the first thing that came in mind ...

 

When I was standing on the harbor I was speaking with a lady that lived there and I was complimenting her city and she replied ... "Oh, this didn't happen overnight ... this is 30 years in the making." (complaining about the same thing we are).

 

While she's currently enjoying her waterfront and 13 mile subway / at grade/ elevated rail system. Yeah, it makes sense that 2 cities reach a peak at different points in time but people like me aren't going to wait around for city X to be like city Y 20 years prior or later.

 

Yes. ~30 years later.

 

So, you're saying that if Cincinnati started on the Banks in the 70's we would still be working on finishing it in 2009?

 

Come on man, you know I like you bro, but you're not making any sense ... especially with the Bmore example. Remember, the mayor that spearheaded the project died in '76! If anything -Bmore is the perfect example of a city that has lagged in progression in comparison to Cincy.

 

 

 

 

I'm looking at 2 cities at the same point in time because I live in the present.

 

... but the point of the argument in the first place was the time-frame it took to complete projects in improving our Downtowns. In which the point I made was that it took Bmore ~30 years to complete a very similar project.

 

I'm done with it too.

 

Sorry for acting like an @sshole. I'm just bitter. ;)

$5.7M garage contract OK'd for Banks

 

Hamilton County commissioners Wednesday accepted a $5.7 million bid package for construction of The Banks parking garage.

 

The Banks is a nearly $1 billion Cincinnati/Hamilton County mixed-use project under construction on the central Ohio riverfront.

 

Full story text is available at

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090116/NEWS01/901160389/1055/NEWS

 

On June 1, Banks starts building up

But developer says grocery unlikely - for now

Business Courier of Cincinnati -

by Lucy May and Dan Monk Senior Staff Reporters[/b]

 

Construction of the apartment buildings and retail in the first phase of the Banks riverfront development will start on or around June 1, a lead member of the development team said Thursday.

 

But don’t expect a grocery store to be in the mix, said Trent Germano, vice chairman of Carter, the development firm that has teamed up with the Dawson Co. to develop the billion-dollar Banks project.

 

Full story text is available at

http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2009/01/19/story1.html

“The retail and residential are 100 percent go – there’s nothing in the way,” he said. “We see nothing to derail this.”

 

:strong:

Yes!

 

And it seems that others are fed up on the Enquirer's web-site... thus far, no Negative Nancies and no negative or stupid comments!

I still want to know what happened to the original architectural layout for The Banks...

^It's called evolving towards demand in current market conditions! :wink:  Many of Phase I (possible)successes will dictate what will be priority by the time III and IV are rising.  They should have a pretty good mix, but the market will ultimately dictate it. 

 

FYI - not saying I agree or disagree, but keep an eye on the new gambling initiative being discussed.  It is still in it's infancy, but it directs placement of casinos towards the 3 C's and not in the middle of a cornfield.  A Cincy location is already being thrown around with alot of support for it being on the river or Broadway.  With Penn Gaming (Argosy owners) doing a 180 and all of the sudden supporting a Cincy location sounds kinda fishy to me, but I like the thought of all sorts of entertainment concentrated in the core.

 

I just hope they don't loose focus on the Residential factor!!!  OTR and CBD have held strong through this mess we're in and with a little luck it could really take off and spread to surrounding areas with positive results. (Ahem, Queensgate/ West End)  Hopefully they pack the Banks out as densely as possible!

I still want to know what happened to the original architectural layout for The Banks...

 

The first design that everyone feel in love with was drawn up by local leaders who wanted to present a vision for the site.  That plan quickly changed as soon as a developer came in and presented a plan driven by market forces.  I would have much preferred that beautiful brick/stone construction with ivy and all the charm of a New England town, but that's just not how it works anymore (unfortunately).

“We would love to have a grocery store, but the timing doesn’t seem to be right right now,” Germano said. He added that a grocery store could always be built in a later phase of the pro­ject. After all, it’s expected to take more than a decade to fully develop the 18-acre site between Great American Ball Park and Paul Brown Stadium.

 

“The more residents we have down there, the more compelling it will be,” he said.

 

vs.

 

Monzel was not bothered by the lack of a grocery tenant. “I’ve never envisioned the Banks as a 53rd neighborhood,” Monzel said. “To me, it’s more a destination for tourists. It’s an entertainment center that connects the stadiums.”

 

>>So we've got Germano stating the importance of residents at the Banks and Monzel wanting to move Eastgate Mall to the site...Hopefully they can strike a good balance...

I don't think Monzel's views of this project are reflective of the majority.

The variety of his attitudes lead me to think he doesn't have a solid grasp of how cities work from the perspective of cars, rail, and feet.  His voice doesn't resonate with a lot of confidence when he's made to comment on architecture and transit issues.   

The variety of his attitudes lead me to think he doesn't have a solid grasp of how cities work from the perspective of cars, rail, and feet. His voice doesn't resonate with a lot of confidence when he's made to comment on architecture and transit issues.

 

In short, he's a city councilman who isn't qualified to be one...

^For real!!

The Banks primarily being a "tourist destination" is absurd on a variety of levels, however he was right about one thing ...

 

The Banks isn't a 53rd neighborhood and shouldn't be treated as such. The whole point is for a development with seamless integration with the CBD. It's part of an existing neighborhood, not a new one.

 

So, it probably isn't hugely important whether the Banks specfically has a grocery store or not. Even at full build-out, the Banks isn't large enough to support a supermarket by itself. You'll need the combined CBD population for that. As long as the residents of the Banks help justify the need for more grocery options - somewhere - within the CBD, it will be a great thing. 

It would be difficult to have a grocery at the banks without a streetcar connection

These are just a couple of pics that I took today with my simple digital camera. The first is from the top of Carew. I've never been up there before today. It was pretty sweet. The second is the platform that is raising to street level as has been mentioned. I think it's pretty obvious that the columns are the supports for the new street. They line up perfect.

 

 

Thanks!  That second image clearly shows the first (lowest) level of the parking garage that will lift the development up to street-level.  It also shows how two will be all that will fit.

 

And it makes perfect sense that the street columns are going in first as the streets will be the first things built.  They will then just build up the areas in between the infrastructure grid.  This process has worked out very well for Atlanta's Atlantic Station development.

Whoa, it was something other than cloudy today???

 

Good pics!

Yea, awesome shots!  That is pretty clear what those columns are going to support.

any idea as to how wide freedom way (shudder at the corny name) is going to be?

Bye Bye mud pit.  Aren't they supposed to start construction on the park soon too?

Banks recruiting hotels, restaurants

 

Talks are under way with several boutique hoteliers and top-tier entertainment venues that developers hope will anchor the initial leg of The Banks riverfront development.

 

Developers say construction is on track to begin in June on the first major retail and residential phase of the project: an $80 million, 300-unit apartment complex that will include roughly 70,000 square feet of retail.

 

Full story text is available at

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090120/BIZ01/301200076/1055/NEWS

any ideas on what you guys would like to see for entertainment?

 

      I would like to see some of these type entertainment venues that although they are not largely my scene it will bring a lot more life, vibrancy, and allure to downtown.

 

          - Lucky Strike Lanes and Lounge

          - Gordon Bierch Brewery

          - ESPN Zone

          - Maybe moving the Montgomery Inn from the water front to the Park Restaurant

          - Movie Theatre

          - Book Store

          - High end shopping