Let's hope there are varieties in the setbacks.

 

yea, i hope not as well.  It should be a cohesive wall, but there should be a break up of materials and height, minimum ___ stories, max ___

Still looks terrible.  Poor render-quality aside...the architecture just sucks. 

 

This.  Hell, give me a week and I could come up with better renderings.  The buildings they keep showing are just bland, and hopefully some more detail will come along as they progress.

 

A different design architect for each building would be a logistical problem, but lead to the best overall appearance.  There is some precedent for a move like that, a community of row houses in Europe (the name escapes me, I may remember it later?) that had a strict set of rules and made use of standardized construction documents, yet eash house was designed by a different architect.  There were dozens of these 20' wide buildings, and each one was different enough to add some spice. 

 

The problem with designs like the Banks are that they're superblocks, now matter how much you try to disguise it. 

 

Let's hope there are varieties in the setbacks.

 

yea, i hope not as well.  It should be a cohesive wall, but there should be a break up of materials and height, minimum ___ stories, max ___

 

I thought they had planned a 14' or 16' sidewalk?  I heard that here somewhere.  It would be similar to Calhoun Street in uptown, I just hope the buildings on the Banks look better than the UPA.

I thought they had planned a 14' or 16' sidewalk?  I heard that here somewhere.  It would be similar to Calhoun Street in uptown, I just hope the buildings on the Banks look better than the UPA.

 

UPA may not be attractive, but the design scheme has made the area a vibrant spot even with 40% or so of the retail space sitting vacant.  During good weather days the sidewalks are packed with people eating, reading, jogging, walking dogs, etc.  It is a great atmosphere that if duplicated on both sides of a street will make for an amazing space.

 

As long as the materials, scale, and uses work then the rest will come with age.  Worst case scenario is we have some buildings that aren't as ornate as we would like but that have created a vibrant urban environment.

The buildings in real life will look completely different than some architects 3D computer program;) 

I thought they had planned a 14' or 16' sidewalk?  I heard that here somewhere.  It would be similar to Calhoun Street in uptown, I just hope the buildings on the Banks look better than the UPA.

 

UPA may not be attractive, but the design scheme has made the area a vibrant spot even with 40% or so of the retail space sitting vacant.  During good weather days the sidewalks are packed with people eating, reading, jogging, walking dogs, etc.  It is a great atmosphere that if duplicated on both sides of a street will make for an amazing space.

 

As long as the materials, scale, and uses work then the rest will come with age.  Worst case scenario is we have some buildings that aren't as ornate as we would like but that have created a vibrant urban environment.

 

Rando, i think it has to be one way or the other for it to be a successfull urban environment.  Right now these renderings demonstrate neither.  If you dont have much variation in texture from fake facade to fake facade then i think you have to mix it up with some positive and negative massing.  I think wed all be kidding ourselves if we assumed these buildings will be dressed up any nicer than illustrated in the renderings.

 

Streets in OTR have an architectural richness that is derived from their detail, not massing.  Every storefront adheres to the same setback, yet the streets are still "interesting" because they are proportioned and designed very well.  But if you remove that articulation, you have to create interest in other ways. 

 

When i look at this rendering im reminded of the meyer at center of cincinnati with its fake barn facades...just looks bad.

 

 

The buildings in real life will look completely different than some architects 3D computer program;)

 

Heh, not when it's me and my 3D computer programs ;-)

I've said it before, and I'll say it again.  Activity levels have much less to do with architectural ornamentation than spatial organization and mixture of uses.  OTR is beautiful but there aren't the amount of people needed to really have a vibrant community there right now.  The same can be said for many other inner-city neighborhoods.  If architecture and building design were the driving forces behind vibrancy then Detroit would be one of the best cities in the U.S.

Still looks terrible. Poor render-quality aside...the architecture just sucks.

 

Considering these "renderings" are just space fillers and banner adds on the website, and not issued/ released renderings, I think people are putting far too much stock into them.  These were quick renders, the ones shown at the next project update will look way better. 

 

They are good for a couple things, though.  They paint a picture of materiality and urban fabric/environment.  In those respects they seem fairly successful, far more than UPA.  I will admit it would be nice if they had a stronger top/ cornice on a few of the masses, the brick detailing is a big question mark, and could help a lot, and it would be nice if they did push and pull the masses a bit as well, but for the most part not bad. 

 

Most fascinating to me is to compare people's reactions on here to their education/ profession.  The planners talk about community and streetscape, architects talk about detail and character, and both sides swear that their issues must be addressed.  Both are accurate.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Activity levels have much less to do with architectural ornamentation than spatial organization and mixture of uses. OTR is beautiful but there aren't the amount of people needed to really have a vibrant community there right now. The same can be said for many other inner-city neighborhoods. If architecture and building design were the driving forces behind vibrancy then Detroit would be one of the best cities in the U.S.

 

Activity levels ultimately depend on "what's there," basically.  If tenants of any place are popular, that will drive activity.  Kenwood Towne Center is a prime example of this.

 

My belief is that it doesn't cost much more, and isn't much harder to make a development attractive, so long as the architect is talented.  Even if the Banks ends up butt-ugly, it will still be a destination... but why settle for mediocrity?  Plus, the Banks needs to make up for the ugliness of the Freedom Center. 

 

I agree with what's been said here about craft as well.  It is a dying skill. ^ Take the Freedom Center for example...

My belief is that it doesn't cost much more, and isn't much harder to make a development attractive, so long as the architect is talented.  Even if the Banks ends up butt-ugly, it will still be a destination... but why settle for mediocrity?

 

Agreed.

The problem with designs like the Banks are that they're superblocks, now matter how much you try to disguise it. 

 

Perfect for something like a CB2, perhaps?

 

Plus, the Banks needs to make up for the ugliness of the Freedom Center. 

 

I agree with what's been said here about craft as well.  It is a dying skill. ^ Take the Freedom Center for example...

 

I like the Freedom Center.  I'm no architect, but I think it's a very interesting looking building.  Once it's integrated into a finished Banks project, I think it won't stick out so much.

 

//edit: While typing this it occurred to me that The Banks' name doesn't make any sense.  It's really only the one bank, since Covington isn't involved in any way.  And now I'm annoyed...

We could have a huge discussion on the development of architectural detail over the past century, but I don't have a few hours to spare!

 

I'm not saying a building has to have an Italianate or Victorian character to be beautiful, in fact when modern buildings try to do that they end up looking like they belong in Disney World or a movie set.  An attractive building just needs to (as said above) take advantage of the best technology available to decide upon details. 

i wonder if the banks would have ever been built if the two new stadiums had located elsewhere.....

i wonder if the banks would have ever been built if the two new stadiums had located elsewhere.....

 

If I'm not mistaken, this was the plan all along.

 

Discussion about craftsmanship has been moved here:

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,18314.0.html

Wow.  Twice in two days.

I really think that the quality of the craftsmanship of the thread pruning hatchet has declined in modern times

LMAO!

I really think that the quality of the craftsmanship of the thread pruning hatchet has declined in modern times

 

lolollolololololol

The land between the stadiums is precious.  Wasting it with buildings you can find in developments in Columbus and a number of other cities is not a good idea in a city starved for that little extra to put it back on people's radar as a destination.  Buildings have to stand, and there will be plenty of time to criticize the architect.  THAT is why a vintage appeal is critical to the Banks.

^Good point.  I think it's safe to say our city leaders really are taking the time to get us something truly awesome down there.  Good thing is they aren't just slapping some buildings together.  Its also good to see steady progress.  That site is busy! can't wait to look there and see absolutely NO MUD PIT:)

The land between the stadiums is precious.  Wasting it with buildings you can find in developments in Columbus and a number of other cities is not a good idea in a city starved for that little extra to put it back on people's radar as a destination.  Buildings have to stand, and there will be plenty of time to criticize the architect.  THAT is why a vintage appeal is critical to the Banks.

 

Most people don't care about the architecture. No matter what it looks like, people will be given a sense that it is new and fresh. Easton in Columbus looks like a cartoon and it's only getting more prestigious as even the most lowly tenants like McDonalds are being replaced by Burberry, Lacoste, etc. It's not about the architecture as much as its about the great stores existing there. I can see people having slightly higher standards downtown but they aren't going to expect OTR.

I thought they had planned a 14' or 16' sidewalk? I heard that here somewhere. It would be similar to Calhoun Street in uptown, I just hope the buildings on the Banks look better than the UPA.

 

UPA may not be attractive, but the design scheme has made the area a vibrant spot even with 40% or so of the retail space sitting vacant. During good weather days the sidewalks are packed with people eating, reading, jogging, walking dogs, etc. It is a great atmosphere that if duplicated on both sides of a street will make for an amazing space.

 

As long as the materials, scale, and uses work then the rest will come with age. Worst case scenario is we have some buildings that aren't as ornate as we would like but that have created a vibrant urban environment.

 

It's vibrant by default because it's literally right up against UC. It's still a massive, almost monochrome structure. The first floor retail makes it very interactive with the street and turns the street into an ambiguous space - it's sometimes hard to tell what belongs to the business and what belongs to the street with all the furniture - but at the same time it serves as a boundary and termination. Unless you've been on UC's campus, you're not aware that there's much going on beyond that building. That has to do with topography but I think people enjoy the fact that it helps make UC sort of 'sealed off' from outsiders. It's interesting how that building can have both inclusionary and exclusionary forces.

Easton has a very fashion forward McDonald's. Honestly, I'm not that worried about the first gen buildings. Once we get things going, the market will determine what gets built and how unique it is. If it turns out to be a great a success as we all hope, in twenty years, they can pull down the first gen buildings and build something bigger and better.

Easton has a very fashion forward McDonald's. Honestly, I'm not that worried about the first gen buildings. Once we get things going, the market will determine what gets built and how unique it is. If it turns out to be a great a success as we all hope, in twenty years, they can pull down the first gen buildings and build something bigger and better.

 

What Easton lacks in its architectural quality it makes up for at night :)

 

Fun fact: 65% of McDonald's revenue comes from drive-thru customers. Despite aesthetics of a location like that at Easton - that was their reasoning for why they closed up shop. Good riddence Mickey D's, we don't need you - we have Burberry moving into your space soon.

 

There is still a McDonald's at Easton - it is over by the Power Center part of the complex - Dick's et al.

I just read in the Enquirer about the plans for Manhatten Harbour, and also The Ovation, both in Kentucky. What impact, if any, will these projects have on the Banks?

I just read in the Enquirer about the plans for Manhatten Harbour, and also The Ovation, both in Kentucky. What impact, if any, will these projects have on the Banks?

 

Ovation doesn't appear to be moving, Manhattan Harbour is more competition for South Shore and Captain's watch than the Banks,  I would guess very little negative impact and probably some positive impact from more people living within the urban core.

Thanks for the response..If all three would come to fruition, the area would have the best riverfronts in the nation, I would think!

As shown by the Banks and Ovation, big projects are hard to build. Manhattan Harbour is going to take a long time to build, and part of the market conditions it will need to respond to are the other 2 projects. In that way I think they will compliment each other. MHs conceptual plan shows a lot more town homes and rowhouses than the others not to mention a retirement community, all of which appeal to a different client than the other projects.

^It also helps out Manhattan Harbour that they don't have to build the entire project on top of parking garages to lift it out of the flood plain.  This is the primary hurdle for both The Banks and Ovation.  Parking garages are extremely expensive...even more so if excavation is needed.

They did have to raise the ground level for the entire Manhattan Harbour project.

 

Also, why would Ovation need to be built on a parking garage? Most of it will be behind Newport's Levee right?

They did have to raise the ground level for the entire Manhattan Harbour project.

 

Also, why would Ovation need to be built on a parking garage? Most of it will be behind Newport's Levee right?

 

I'm no engineer...just recapping the information available about the projects.  Corporex needed significant public money in order to construct that infrastructure...money that has yet to be made available hence the delay.  Manhattan Harbour isn't as dense as the other two projects and has the ability to include surface parking.  As a result all they have to do is some filling which is much less costly than structure supporting garages.

Ovation needs the garages in order to: 1. provide enough on site parking for the proposed uses, and 2. for aesthetics of the view over the earthen levee.  I am sure some of the stuff on the ground level will have uses other than parking to make the development a good fit and transition into the existing neighborhood (or I at least really hope so).  If you wanted I guess you could just fill it in, but then you would have to build above grade parking on top of the fill, and you would have that same "blank wall" effect that currently exists next to the existing levee.

I don't really have the time to read all 121 pages of this, or for taht matter any of this, so sorry if it's a stupid question.

 

but...

 

Is the Banks still going to happen? Or is it dead in the water?

I don't really have the time to read all 121 pages of this, or for taht matter any of this, so sorry if it's a stupid question.

 

but...

 

Is the Banks still going to happen? Or is it dead in the water?

 

It's probably going to happen.  How long it will take and if it will live up to the promise are a couple I can't answer.

I don't really have the time to read all 121 pages of this, or for taht matter any of this, so sorry if it's a stupid question.

 

but...

 

Is the Banks still going to happen? Or is it dead in the water?

 

It is currently under construction

I don't really have the time to read all 121 pages of this, or for taht matter any of this, so sorry if it's a stupid question.

 

but...

 

Is the Banks still going to happen? Or is it dead in the water?

 

It's probably going to happen. How long it will take and if it will live up to the promise are a couple I can't answer.

 

Yeah. The concrete pilings, multiple cranes, and general construction equipment by the river are probably for the Banks. Not sure though.

Ovation needs the garages in order to: 1. provide enough on site parking for the proposed uses, and 2. for aesthetics of the view over the earthen levee. I am sure some of the stuff on the ground level will have uses other than parking to make the development a good fit and transition into the existing neighborhood (or I at least really hope so). If you wanted I guess you could just fill it in, but then you would have to build above grade parking on top of the fill, and you would have that same "blank wall" effect that currently exists next to the existing levee.

 

I know this is starting to get away from The Banks, but I've never understood how Ovation is supposed to be on the level with the floodwall, yet have streets that tie in with the rest of Newport.  Maybe it won't.  In any case, they've been bringing in fill dirt to the Ovation site for some time now.

I don't really have the time to read all 121 pages of this, or for taht matter any of this, so sorry if it's a stupid question.

 

but...

 

Is the Banks still going to happen? Or is it dead in the water?

 

It's probably going to happen.  How long it will take and if it will live up to the promise are a couple I can't answer.

 

Yeah. The concrete pilings, multiple cranes, and general construction equipment by the river are probably for the Banks. Not sure though.

 

I'll be out of state this weekend but I'll try to go back down there Monday and get some new pics if it isn't raining.

Taken Sunday.

I don't really have the time to read all 121 pages of this, or for taht matter any of this, so sorry if it's a stupid question.

 

but...

 

Is the Banks still going to happen? Or is it dead in the water?

 

It's probably going to happen. How long it will take and if it will live up to the promise are a couple I can't answer.

 

Yeah. The concrete pilings, multiple cranes, and general construction equipment by the river are probably for the Banks. Not sure though.

 

 

god i love sarcasm

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.

 

 

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.

 

 

 

if done poorly.  I feel a hatchet coming on

Should I be insulted?

^ Definitely, given the slug's pace of this project.

^ Definitely, given the slug's pace of this project.

 

you seem like the kind of person who would see someone come into the ER on a stretcher and say "Man, getting stabbed was a bad idea, you shouldn't have done that"

^ Or a guy who isn't prone to blind optimism.  Daytonnatian's question was valid.  This project has dragged on for thirteen years, and all we have to show is a couple cranes.  REK got smart at a time when it wasn't called for.

Huh . . . it is moving along. The thirteen year timeline hides more than it reveals.

Does anyone know the breakdown on the residential units?  Numbers/cost/etc.  Thanks.