Says the man living in Lizard Hill.

 

Even if it were called Schmuck Hill, it'd still be better than your place of residence, sucka.

Am I the only one that feels it went from bad to worse?  This was following the UBRD's recommendations?  Wow.  Its like a contemporary superblock of yuck.  Atleast the first design tried to break up the mass.  And what is with the ridiculously outdated canted parapets?  I guess that is one way to justify the stereotype about Cincinnati being a constant anacronysm.

Says the man living in Lizard Hill.

 

Even if it were called Schmuck Hill, it'd still be better than your place of residence, sucka.

 

I highly doubt it.  Your place is as trashy as your alma mater.

Am I the only one that feels it went from bad to worse?  This was following the UBRD's recommendations?  Wow.  Its like a contemporary superblock of yuck.  At least the first design tried to break up the mass.  And what is with the ridiculously outdated canted parapets?  I guess that is one way to justify the stereotype about Cincinnati being a constant anacronysm.

 

The main things incorporated into this design as recommended by the UBRD are the balconies which add an interesting liveliness element and help break up the massing of the large contiguous structure.  The facade is also broken up more from the previous design.  There are more parts of the building that jut in, the height varies slightly more, and there appears to be a greater variety in building materials.

 

Still not a great design, and certainly not anywhere close to those original drawings we saw back in the late 90s, but this seems pretty par for the course in terms of contemporary construction and design.

The "superblock" type development is inherently tough to pull off.  No matter how hard you try, there's just not going to be enough diversity in terms of facades.  The guys at Moody Nolan are excellent designers, it's just extremely hard to do a superblock. 

 

My opinion from the beginning is there should have been a competition, the blocks divided up into standard sized plots, and different architects hired to build differently programmed buildings.  That's how city's have always developed, and it's the diversity and personal design touches that make them beautiful.  I think it's too much public investment and not enough private that has lead to this superblock look.

My opinion from the beginning is there should have been a competition, the blocks divided up into standard sized plots, and different architects hired to build differently programmed buildings.  That's how city's have always developed, and it's the diversity and personal design touches that make them beautiful.  I think it's too much public investment and not enough private that has lead to this superblock look.

 

I couldn't agree more...but for some reason City/County officials felt the need to go with the massive development approach with a single developer/architect.

That's really too bad.

The "superblock" type development is inherently tough to pull off.  No matter how hard you try, there's just not going to be enough diversity in terms of facades.  The guys at Moody Nolan are excellent designers, it's just extremely hard to do a superblock. 

 

My opinion from the beginning is there should have been a competition, the blocks divided up into standard sized plots, and different architects hired to build differently programmed buildings.  That's how city's have always developed, and it's the diversity and personal design touches that make them beautiful.  I think it's too much public investment and not enough private that has lead to this superblock look.

 

Economies of scale gained from having one designer and one contractor, not to mention the incredibly quick schedule, deemed the multiple designer model difficult.  That being said, this is not what it has to look like if just one designer is used.  This is disappointing, to say the least.

^It's no different from the dozens of new mega urban infill projects that have been seen elsewhere around the country. Columbus' Arena District, Atlanta's Atlantic Station or Lindbergh Center, or St. Louis' yet to be completed Ballpark Village all come to mind.

While it looks boring as hell, and I wouldn't be opposed to them scrapping the majority of it and just building the Riverfront Park and the Moerlein Brew House and going slow from there, I will at least remind everyone that, aside from Riverfront Stadium, that area was almost entirely parking lots and warehouses before.

^It's no different from the dozens of new mega urban infill projects that have been seen elsewhere around the country. Columbus' Arena District, Atlanta's Atlantic Station or Lindbergh Center, or St. Louis' yet to be completed Ballpark Village all come to mind.

I would take Crocker Park in Westlake over these renderings.  Arena District is nice, having actual different uses and building types contribute to a natural "form follows function" even though it is contemporary.  Havent been to or seen the others, but just because someone else has possibly committed a mistake doent mean it is ok for me or my city.

I would take the Arean District on the Banks any day before the current plans. Our entire riverfront is going to look incredibly dated in twenty years.

I would take Crocker Park in Westlake over these renderings.  Arena District is nice, having actual different uses and building types contribute to a natural "form follows function" even though it is contemporary.  Havent been to or seen the others, but just because someone else has possibly committed a mistake doent mean it is ok for me or my city.

 

Never said that it was ok, just said that this is pretty par for the course for these types of developments.  It's nothing special, and that in and of itself is a problem.

The overall color scheme is also pretty ugly and I think will look very dated and tacky 15 years after it is built. The least they could do is bring back the darker, more modest and natural brown brick color that was displayed in the previous rendering.

 

The overall color scheme is that of brick.  The reason the two renderings appear to have different color scheme and almost different materials altogether is because of the render engine that they used.  It is clear that the renderings were done in two different operations and to do different qualities.

 

The previous renderings were of higher quality since they used light sources with some greater detailing, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are better buildings.

I would take the Arean District on the Banks any day before the current plans. Our entire riverfront is going to look incredibly dated in twenty years.

 

I don't like the designs all that much, but I just don't get how you can say this.  These renderings show the use of brick and natural materials for the final product...how does that differ from the Arena District and somehow make The Banks subject to be outdated within twenty years?

The buildings look sedate but I care considerably lessa bout the aesthetics than the leasing inside.  The buildings are fine just bring the right tenant mix and that'll get me excited.

My first thought was that these are hideous.  I really, really don't like how the corner buildings are all much taller than everything in between.  Then I moved on to thinking they were too bland.  Now I think they're exactly what needs to happen.  Sure, I'd rather have interesting architecture that mixes well and feels like it grew organically over the years.  But the fact is that this project didn't.  It took a lot of effort and funding from the city and county to pull off, and none of this development could occur until the garages were done.  Yes, they will look somewhat boring, and that's a drag for those of us interested enough to follow projects like this on a messageboard.  But what we say we want is to revitalize our cities.  Well downtown, OTR, Newport, Covington, etc already have an amazing collection of architectural wonders, but that hasn't been enough to make them as vibrant and dynamic as we would like.  Meanwhile, nearby super-boring suburban developments like Rookwood Commons are jam-packed daily.  It's certainly not because of their unique and interesting architecture!  Weedrose is right, the tenant mix is what is important.  For The Banks to get off the ground and be successful, it will have to appeal to people who don't care about architecture or asthetics.  And if it is successful, it will be that much better for the surrounding areas which actually have the architectural value we all love so much.  Let's just accept this for what it is.  They're hoping to take Crestview Hills Town Center, bury the parking lot, and pull in people who currently wouldn't dream of setting foot downtown.

The buildings look sedate but I care considerably lessa bout the aesthetics than the leasing inside. The buildings are fine just bring the right tenant mix and that'll get me excited.

 

like

Phase 1a of The Banks to rise quickly

By Jenny Kessler, UrbanCincy | January 28, 2010

http://www.urbancincy.com/2010/01/phase-1a-of-banks-to-rise-quickly.html

 

This past Tuesday, January 27th, Cincinnati City Council's Strategic Growth Committee gathered at City Hall to listen to and review construction updates on the long-awaited Banks development project. David L. Holmes, Assistant City Manager and John F. Deatrick, Banks Project Executive were both on hand to explain the project's progress in further detail.

 

The update focused on Phase 1a of the construction plan, which includes 300 apartments and nearly 80,000 square feet of retail and restaurant space with parking garages below street level. As of this January, Phase 1a is 65% constructed and staying well within the budget previously set for the development.

 

Both the City of Cincinnati and Hamilton County have pledged monies towards The Banks. The City has pledged $20 million and has so far paid $7.5 million, while the county has committed some $5 million. After both the city and the county have paid their committed shares, they will split the remaining cost 50/50.

 

Phase 1a of The Banks is projected to open by Opening Day 2011. According to the presenters, apartment leasing will begin in fall of 2010, though the projected price points of said apartments are still up in the air. As soon as the exterior facades on the buildings are finished, the streets that are currently closed off due to construction will reopen.

 

Construction has begun on 300 apartments and 80,000 square feet of retail at Phase 1a of The Banks - Images Provided

 

The scope of construction that has been most recently completed is mostly structure for parking and mechanical, electrical and plumbing infrastructure. They are currently laying shear walls and columns in the south site by the bridge. The workers are waiting for warmer weather to come back in order to pour more concrete.

 

One of the financial directors gave an update on the amount of local, small business, minority and women employees and businesses currently engaged in the Banks project. She emphasized that 74% of construction workers for the project currently live in the Cincinnati metropolitan area, 20% are minorities, and 2.5% are female. Council members Charlie Winburn, Laure Quinlivan and committee chair Chris Bortz expressed concern for making sure that "as many Cincinnatians as possibly are involved in the construction and in the business of the Banks." Winburn stressed making sure that "this project has the utmost integrity" when it comes to keeping money local, (despite hiring out of Birmingham for the general contractors).

 

After Phase 1a is complete in early 2011, work will begin on reconstructing Mehring Way to cut a wider arc above the river, bordering the new Central Riverfront Park. As a result, project managers are currently in the process of appropriating stimulus funds for this development.

 

While retailers for the Phase 1a portion of the project are not yet set in stone, much has been speculated about a potential grocery store, entertainment venues like an ESPN Zone, and other restaurants, bars and entertainment venues to compliment the evolving riverfront district. Connectivity to the existing Riverfront Transit Center, and proposed Cincinnati Streetcar, will help connect The Banks to the rest of Downtown, Over-the-Rhine, and Uptown neighborhoods resulting in a live/play/work situation that will be attractive to all.

 

Additional images of Phase 1a of The Banks can be viewed here:

http://www.urbancincy.com/2010/01/phase-1a-of-banks-to-rise-quickly.html

The workers are waiting for warmer weather to come back in order to pour more concrete.

 

They poured a big slab of concrete yesterday...and I see the big blue arm out there today.  Progress is really starting up now. You can see construction of the south wall which will abut the reconfigured Mehring Way.  Also a lot of activity these days on the North platform.

What is the current status of the funding for the additional phases?

 

Well some of the funding has been secured for the public portions of the project (streets, parking garages), and that is why you have seen work being done over by Paul Brown Stadium.  Cincinnati/Hamilton County are working on that now...the above ground portions will be paid for primarily with private dollars by the development team.  And as with every big project, they'll be doing it in phases so that they can continue to get financing and make money as they go along.

I would take the Arean District on the Banks any day before the current plans. Our entire riverfront is going to look incredibly dated in twenty years.

 

I don't like the designs all that much, but I just don't get how you can say this.  These renderings show the use of brick and natural materials for the final product...how does that differ from the Arena District and somehow make The Banks subject to be outdated within twenty years?

 

To stand the test of time, contemporary architecture needs to be significant/remarkable in some way. Just look at recent past preservation; people are concerned about only the most striking structures or the most prominent architects. The Lindner Center is going to be much more sustainable psychologically than Schneider or Turner at UC. The Arena District relies almost entirely on classical designs. The buildings are rich with brick and ornament, giving them tremendous permanence. The renderings for the Banks look mediocre today. Cincinnatians can wear rose colored glasses seven days a week, but I think they know our city deserves more.

Arena District:

 

Atlantic Station:

 

The Banks:

Moving on past the designs of Phase IA, what are people's thoughts on the 80,000 square feet of retail and restaurant space that will be opened up?

 

 

My main concerns center on what would be put in on the groundfloor of the NE (Nuxhall Way & 2nd) and SE (Nuxhall Way & Freedom Way) corners. There has been talk of an ESPNZone type of establishment in Phase 1a. Seems like the best bet for one of these corners. Thoughts?

 

 

My guess would be that on Reds gamedays, Freedom way (to Walnut) & Nuxhall Way would be closed to vehicles, allowing for easier pedestrian traffic throughout The Banks and Riverfront Park.

 

 

For the rest of the retail space, Cincinnati could use another Apple store and a Whole Foods or a Trader Joes. And perhaps, once Kenwood Towne Place has to close for major repairs before it's completion, The Container Store and Crate & Barrel will move to The Banks.  lol  Mix in some local retailers and watch the Apartments fill.

 

Sounds like Christian Moerlein might have some competition

 

Samuel Adams brewpub rumor just that ... or is it?

 

Samuel Adams can’t come to the dance if no one invites him.

 

This much we learned while chasing down one of the juicier rumors circulated at the recent Colliers Turley Martin Tucker “State of Real Estate” event. The rumor was that a Samuel Adams brewpub might be part of the tenant mix at the Banks riverfront development project.

 

 

http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2010/02/01/story5.html

I can't wait to see the renderings of the Moerlein place.

For the rest of the retail space, Cincinnati could use another Apple store and a Whole Foods or a Trader Joes. And perhaps, once Kenwood Towne Place has to close for major repairs before it's completion, The Container Store and Crate & Barrel will move to The Banks.  lol  Mix in some local retailers and watch the Apartments fill.

 

Well put!

The only construction missing in that shot is the streetcar line's.  Nice panoramic shot

For the rest of the retail space, Cincinnati could use another Apple store and a Whole Foods or a Trader Joes. And perhaps, once Kenwood Towne Place has to close for major repairs before it's completion, The Container Store and Crate & Barrel will move to The Banks. lol   Mix in some local retailers and watch the Apartments fill.

 

I'd love to see a CB2.

If I look at it from a potential downtown resident perspective, I'd be way more excited about something like a Target. For some reason, despite all the options I had in Chicago, the Target was a long bus ride away, and it drove me crazy, because I went to the Crate and Barrel two times in a year, but I would have gone to that damn Target once a week.

^Agreed

If I look at it from a potential downtown resident perspective, I'd be way more excited about something like a Target. For some reason, despite all the options I had in Chicago, the Target was a long bus ride away, and it drove me crazy, because I went to the Crate and Barrel two times in a year, but I would have gone to that damn Target once a week.

 

That's a good point.  But from someone who lives near, but not actually in downtown, I'd like to see stores that are new to the region.  I'd much rather shop downtown than drive all the way to Kenwood.

^ I've been suggesting a Wal-Mart Supercenter for The Banks since day 1, but I guess the upper-middle class version (aka Target) will suffice ;)

These are good ideas but honestly, I don't think these super centers would actually fit at the Banks.  Literally.  Is there seriously enough room even for one Target store???

As a downtown resident, I don't really see why a downtown Target would really be needed.  I can't imagine walking to Target and doing my errands. I don't go to one very often (maybe every other month), but I am happy to have my car when I do go.  I can't imagine walking back home while carrying my giant container of laundry detergent and multi-pack of tissues.

These are good ideas but honestly, I don't think these super centers would actually fit at the Banks.  Literally.  Is there seriously enough room even for one Target store???

 

See this Wiki section on Target's Urban Stores. I've been to the downtown Minneapolis location and it works very well for a much smaller footprint than their suburban stores.

Ford Development wins Banks contract

Business Courier of Cincinnati

 

 

Ford Development, doing business as Trend Construction, won a contract to do water main and sewer work for the Banks riverfront project.

 

Ford’s winning bid is valued at $498,514 and the award was approved by the Hamilton County Commissioners at their Wednesday meeting.

 

 

http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2010/02/08/daily40.html

I would love to see an urban Target in downtown, im not sure it would fit in at The Banks however. Seems like more of a Q type development to me.

A Wal-Mart would definitely not fit in- theres no room for a huge nasty parking lot :laugh:

I see your point Melanie, and I felt that way a lot in Chicago with trudging up to Jewel in the snow.

 

I guess Cincinnati is just a strange bird to me, after living in Chicago and Orlando, both of which have a lot of mainstream grocery/household goods right in the urban core. I think what would satisfy me in one shot would be a massive brick and glass urban Kroger at Central and Walnut. Oh well. I can dream.

 

Does anyone have any literature on what kind of retail works with sports stadium anchors?

Quick question.

 

Are the renderings on the Banks' website (http://www.carterdawson.com/default.aspx) accurate as of today? Such as this one...  http://www.carterdawson.com/images/concept-drawing2.jpg

Some renderings can be found at http://www.carterdawson.com

 

 

 

 

Those are outdated renderings that don't reflect the changes made based on the recommendations of the Urban Design Review Board.

 

UrbanCincy was on the scene yesterday for The Banks update at City Hall.  At that meeting we were able to secure an exclusive interview, details, renderings, and upcoming tour of The Banks construction site (stay tuned).  But here are the updated renderings that were directly provided to us from the Project Manager.

 

 

 

 

 

They also provided us with two recent construction site updates:

 

 

The post that I quoted above includes the updated renderings...

Thanks! The changes are very unfortunate.. I think the design was solid before and would fit the architecture much better than orange brick..  :?

 

Does anyone agree?

I think the design is successful enough.  BUT, does anyone know if they're putting party walls between the sections of buildings?  Or are they just building a giant superblock and alternating facades to look like different buildings?

I'm not familiar with Cincinnati's building code, but in most cases you need a 2-hour fire separation between tenants in a building like this., which pretty much serves the same function as a traditional party wall.

I'm wondering if sections of the building will be able to replaced in the future, or if the whole block will need to be leveled if they want something new.

^ I don't think that's a question that can be clearly answered. It's certainly not a question of technical capability, I think the answer to that would be "of course they could rebuild a section."

 

Some present conditions going against doing that: It's managed rental with shared amenities, not so profitable under 300 units. It's a single owner. Just going by the rendering, its gimick architecture with questionable materials and if that were important to someone to change, if they assumed total ownership just blow out the whole shell while leaving the garage intact.

 

A hypothetical condition *for* doing that: Car use declines so much that it becomes attractive to take out the garage core and subdivide the block.

 

Superblock architecture is like playing with Legos: 120' parking modules, 60-80' retail bays with residential above served by interior corridor down the middle, leaving you with 35' deep apartments, which stays below the 40' natural light penetration limit.

Thanks! The changes are very unfortunate.. I think the design was solid before and would fit the architecture much better than orange brick.. :?

 

Does anyone agree?

 

I do like the older renderings better.  They had some aesthetic drawbacks but looked a lot less superblock-like.

 

The newer renderings aren't as developed as the older ones though, so the bright orange and colors will look a lot different when they actually show a material rather than just a solid color.  I think it's probably just a graphic thing.

I'm super pumped for the Banks and hope it's all a huge success.  That whole area will make a huge difference for Cincinnati.  Fingers crossed that Fort Washington Way will be capped: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,15795.0.html