June 6, 200619 yr The Gaslight area of Clifton is an amazing area and is a grea tarea for families. Paddock Hills, Mt. Washington, and Columbia Tuculum are three other hoods that are great for kids.
July 1, 200618 yr Banks project panel ups ante Finalists must specify plans BY JON NEWBERRY | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER The panel charged with picking a master developer for the $600 million Banks project downtown decided Friday that it needs additional, detailed information from four finalists - what they envision and how they propose to get there - before negotiating a development agreement. Full story text is available at http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060701/BIZ01/607010320/1076/BIZ
July 1, 200618 yr Note: This post originally contained an unattributed picture of Cincinnati Mayor Mark Mallory and Hamilton County Commissioner Phil Heimlich. The picture was hosted at http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/1289/malloryheimlichbanks6yb.jpg
July 2, 200618 yr If they want a successful entertainment area, sell 5 4am liquor liscenses which can only be used in the new riverfront area. That's all the hell they have to do, the businesses and business will follow.
July 2, 200618 yr Will somebody just let a developer build the stupid Banks. If I was a developer and I was watching this mess I would think twice before trying to bring business to the city. This truly is government at its worst. Its just a bunch of politicans damaging the economy of a community just so they can prove who can piss the longest. I really believe this is and will hurt the city and county's economic opportunities in the future.
July 2, 200618 yr If they want a successful entertainment area, sell 5 4am liquor liscenses which can only be used in the new riverfront area. That's all the hell they have to do, the businesses and business will follow. Agree absolutely. They could do this for the Banks or to revive the Main Street District in OTR. Frankly I think that we should be more concerned about affordable housing at the Banks and less about using the public funds to create an "entertainment district". That will more likely than not grow naturally from making sure a good mix of income types are living in that area. Will somebody just let a developer build the stupid Banks. If I was a developer and I was watching this mess I would think twice before trying to bring business to the city. This truly is government at its worst. Its just a bunch of politicans damaging the economy of a community just so they can prove who can piss the longest. I really believe this is and will hurt the city and county's economic opportunities in the future. C'mon dude. If this site was so easy and so bankable to develop, it would have been done years ago. But the Riverfront has lain fallow for nearly three decades. My guess is that any successful Riverfront district has been the result of conspicuous and planned government investment, not from natural turnover resulting from private investment (e.g. Mt. Adams shifting from being a working-class neighborhood to a wealthy neighborhood being in the 1970's). Simply blaming politicians shows a real disinterest in the inherent problems and riskiness of the site and size of investment. And finally, it's better that this take longer and it's done right than done quickly but wrong.
July 3, 200618 yr Why is it a bad thing that the committee wants a detailed plan? If they picked a developer without being sure it was the right choice and that developer made a mess of things, a lot of you would be talking crap about the committee and how they didn't take a close enough look at the proposals. This is too big of a project to be making choices on half knowledge. Anyway, they have been working on the site for a while now if noone has noticed. They have leveled about half the area between te Freedom Center and GABP. I also heard they did a little early maintenance on the sewer lines ( but don't hold me to that). Most of this work is probably in preparation for 'Cirque du Soleil' in August, but the ground will be ready for construction after 'Cirque du Soleil' departs. By that time the Banks Committee hopefully would have chosen the right developer for the job and construction will begin shortly. Frankly I think that we should be more concerned about affordable housing at the Banks and less about using the public funds to create an "entertainment district". I was just curious. What do you consider affordable for this project. I certainly hope you don't mean subsidized.
July 3, 200618 yr Agree absolutely. They could do this for the Banks or to revive the Main Street District in OTR. Frankly I think that we should be more concerned about affordable housing at the Banks and less about using the public funds to create an "entertainment district". That will more likely than not grow naturally from making sure a good mix of income types are living in that area. Okay...I do not think the Banks is the place for affordable housing for this simple reason Downtown and OTR have more then their share of affordable housing. If you had said let's build affordable housing in Hyde Park, Mount Lookout, Oakley, I would support the cause easily. The biggest problem with downtown is that all the affordable housing in the city was place in OTR and the West End creating a very bad social situation. Downtown desperately needs a kick in the pants and building more affordable housing in an area that is already saturated with affordable housing is not the answer. If downtown/the core is to truly become mixed income, we need housing that attracts some wealth to the core.
July 3, 200618 yr If The Banks includes a vibrant nightlife scene it is not going to help the Main Street district. In fact, it will most likely make it a lot harder for Main street to compete.
July 3, 200618 yr >Frankly I think that we should be more concerned about affordable housing at the Banks and less about using the public funds to create an "entertainment district". That will more likely than not grow naturally from making sure a good mix of income types are living in that area. I am opposed to the government or some developer trying to create from scratch a "____ district", be it a bar district, arts district, whatever. They really love the actual word "district", for some reason it insinuates excitement in a way that "area" or "part of town" don't. And it doesn't matter what they're going for, no matter what, it will be lamer than if it just happened by itself. Does Mallory party? Heimlich? Alicia Reece? Most of these developers or anyone else with real jobs? But I guarantee with a handful of 4am bars you will have a 2am convergence of people from all over the region on the Cincinnati riverfront instead of the Covington Waffle House. And what would actually be really cool about that is you'd have all types and ages converging at those bars instead of the self-segregation that happens at so many bars. If you go in any Waffle House at 3am, you will see a motley group of people who were all out socializing somewhere, maybe in the sewers, before coming to Waffle House. People just want somewhere to go and hang out a bit longer, that is why people are there more than to eat. So if you have just one spot where everyone can go and drink, you are going to have a wild scene. When I used to throw parties in college I would invite everyone I knew, it didn't matter who they were. I actually got the janitors to come once or twice from the building my department was in and we all had a blast. The point of a bar is to meet people and have fun, not stand around and just talk to the people you came with and analyze people's clothing. I personally don't care about the Main St. bar district, if anything the Banks rents will probably be higher which means drinks and covers will be ridiculously high. Cincinnati is not an exceptionally expensive or cheap town to go out in, but if people really want a taste of New York City nightlife, you're going to be paying $10 covers on Tuesdays and pitchers of Duff will be $17.
July 3, 200618 yr If they're going to give the Banks area a 4am liquor license, they ought to do it now, so folks who are dropping the coin to buy places there know going in that at 2am every weekend night, they'll be living in a drunk magnet. Not only to be fair to prospective buyers, but so it will actually occur - look at the opposition on Main Strasse to efforts to make it more bar-friendly...
July 3, 200618 yr Frankly I think that we should be more concerned about affordable housing at the Banks and less about using the public funds to create an "entertainment district". I was just curious. What do you consider affordable for this project. I certainly hope you don't mean subsidized. Well, since every version of this project involves the use of TIF funds, and is incumbent upone the City/County/State building the parking garage foundations, obviously it will be subsidized. My point is that if we are all so concerned about people who are leaving the City, then perhaps the Banks project could be used in part to appeal to those people. Young couples with new kids, single-parent households (a growing constituency, to use the parlance of our times) and young unmarried professionals looking for a starter house/apartment. The fact is that nothing is going to be built there without state intervention, but that's okay. Remember, nothing gets built without public goods like water, sewage, access roads, electricity, etc. It's usually just a question of how much on the margins that the private developer makes. Okay...I do not think the Banks is the place for affordable housing for this simple reason Downtown and OTR have more then their share of affordable housing. If you had said let's build affordable housing in Hyde Park, Mount Lookout, Oakley, I would support the cause easily. The biggest problem with downtown is that all the affordable housing in the city was place in OTR and the West End creating a very bad social situation. Downtown desperately needs a kick in the pants and building more affordable housing in an area that is already saturated with affordable housing is not the answer. If downtown/the core is to truly become mixed income, we need housing that attracts some wealth to the core. I think you are kidding yourself if you think that OTR has affordable housing. Affordable rentals, for sure, but it cost an f-load to fix up those old buildings to a habitable state. I consider Hyde, Park, Mt. Lookout, Oakley etc. to be part of the core. Residents and Businesses in those neighborhoods contribute just as much to the City as any in OTR or the West End (most likely more). The thing about OTR is that it is an underutilized resource right in the middle of the two largest employment areas in the City (Downtown & Clifton) that has been systematically disinvested in for the past three & a half decades. I am opposed to the government or some developer trying to create from scratch a "____ district", be it a bar district, arts district, whatever. They really love the actual word "district", for some reason it insinuates excitement in a way that "area" or "part of town" don't. And it doesn't matter what they're going for, no matter what, it will be lamer than if it just happened by itself. That's just consultant and adman talk so it sounds like they are doing something. it's the new cult of management, when people forget that sales is at the heart of any commercial enterprise. It's like, have you ever noticed when you're at a party, people are always talking about marketing? This idea that marketing is a science is ridiculous. When you look at their evidence, it's largely anecdoctal.
July 3, 200618 yr I am opposed to the government or some developer trying to create from scratch a "____ district", be it a bar district, arts district, whatever. They really love the actual word "district", for some reason it insinuates excitement in a way that "area" or "part of town" don't. And it doesn't matter what they're going for, no matter what, it will be lamer than if it just happened by itself. I totally agree! Districts will form naturally if they are to truly succeed. You cant go to the middle of a cornfield and say that its going to be the new _____ district, just as you cannot go to a specific area in a city and say that it is going to be the new ______ district. If things are going to happen.....they'll happen, it is very difficult to force them to progress in the way you might want them to. I would love to see the Banks become a happening nightlife destination, but should the area prefer to become a more neighborhood oriented area with neighborhood services abound....then so be it.
July 3, 200618 yr :sleep: Slow going on Banks developer Post staff report Members of the Banks Working Group decided Friday on how they would chose a master developer for the proposed development on the Cincinnati riverfront. As a first step, the city-county advisory group decided to ask for more information from the four finalists competing for the job. Full story text is available at www.cincypost.com :sleep:
July 3, 200618 yr it's the new cult of management, when people forget that sales is at the heart of any commercial enterprise. It's like, have you ever noticed when you're at a party, people are always talking about marketing? This idea that marketing is a science is ridiculous. When you look at their evidence, it's largely anecdoctal. Dollars to doughnuts I'm the only one here who gets that joke. Well done. Can you cross post that into the Fountain Square thread on the new logo? Seem appropriate.
July 4, 200618 yr I can't see the committee NOT being satisfied with all 4 proposals. I have faith that at least one proposal will be more than satisfactory. I was not aware however, that the committee has not even met with any of these groups. There's no way it takes them 9 months to select a developer. When the committee was put together, everyone was critical of how long the process was taking up to that point. Then they said the project was on the fast track now that the committee was formed. If it takes 9 more months to select a developer that's obviously NOT the fast track and that is egg on the face of the creators of the committee and none of them want that.
July 12, 200618 yr http://www.atlanticstation.com/images/siteplan750.gif would fit nice here... http://www.cincinnatiport.org/bnks_2.jpg
July 13, 200618 yr Is that large thing at the top supposed to have been a concept for the convention center expansion over 75 which was once proposed?
July 13, 200618 yr Now that we have those questions in the right thread, discuss... They didn't belong in the Ikea thread even though there is an IKEA in the Atlanta rendering. An Ikea on the Cincinnati downtown riverfront is "pure patent nonsense". Yes the Convention Center was suppose to cover I-75 at one time. The tower next to Scripps was suppose to be Providents new HQ and the two buildings proposed to the right were the original Queen City Square proposals that was later changed to one tall highrise and the current 303 Broadway. The condos and marina on the river were proposals that I think are long gone. I believe most of that is already covered in the 26 pages of Banks discussion we have here but feel free to talk about it again.
July 13, 200618 yr it also looks like there is a near replica building of the enquirer building. Whatever happened to that?
July 13, 200618 yr ^ There were supposed to be twin buildings there, but only the one the Enquirer's in got built.
July 14, 200618 yr It's amazing how people keep bringing up Atlantic Station in Atlanta (not necessarily on this site) as something we should follow for downtown development. As the map clearly indicates, the Atlantic Station development is across the highway from Midtown Atlanta, not Downtown Atlanta, thereby placing it somewhere to the equivalent of UC (the closest MARTA station isn't even the Midtown Station. It's Arts Center, one station north. The map is being slightly generous with what Atlantans would consider Midtown). On top of that, it's across the highway (I-75/I-85) from all those places I just described. So, to put it in Cincinnati terms, the Atlantic Station development would be located somewhere in Camp Washington. Which is funny since the Atlantic Station development is on what were once old industrial sites. I think we are capable of making the Banks more interesting ourselves than by copying a nice and relatively successful Atlanta development that occupies a completely different site. Everyone moans about how the site currently makes little use of "great riverfront property". A big box IKEA wouldn't be the answer.
July 14, 200618 yr Lincoln I would be very happy if the Banks looked like the original rendering. I don't see the need for new designs, I want these!
July 14, 200618 yr I would buy one of thouse, they are great renderings. If they built that Cincinnati would raise from the grave.
July 14, 200618 yr These renderings have been out there for years, I don't see what these new developers are designing? JUST GIVE US THESE CINCINNATI!
July 14, 200618 yr I can just imagine, living on the banks, watching Bengals/reds games, going to concerts at the arena, and going over to newport to hang out abit, all without a car, then walking to work on Monday. build it I will come, but I'm not a millionare so dont price it way out of my range, keep some options open for the 130k-200k young professionals. i guess the ones that a city needs to keep.
July 14, 200618 yr I like the designs, but a restaurant who puts napkin dispensers on the tables was not what I had in mind.
July 14, 200618 yr I like the designs, but a restaurant who puts napkin dispensers on the tables was not what I had in mind. Looks like that napkin dispenser would be in Paul Brown Stadium from the angle of the rendering.
July 14, 200618 yr I would almost guarantee that when something does get built there, the majority of it will look like the red building in the lower left corner of this picture, in both height and architectural style. If Vandercar is involved, then I would expect even worse. It will be variations of that, with comical lifestyle centeresque detailing and materials. If anything built resembles any of the taller buildings in the renderings, I will gladly eat my hat.
July 14, 200618 yr I like the designs, but a restaurant who puts napkin dispensers on the tables was not what I had in mind. Looks like that napkin dispenser would be in Paul Brown Stadium from the angle of the rendering. That's definitely the view from Paul Brown Stadium. The conspicuously shorter red-brick building is so much shorter than the others in the designs because the Bengals have some sort of veto rights over the height of the buildings in that block. Another reason they could take it slow and start developing from East to West, to show Mike Brown that 6-8 story (sp?) building is not a threat to his golden egg nest next door. Monte, I completely agree with you about the looks for the Banks. Those designs were what was sold to the public, they should be the course to be followed, at least stylistically. I think that if you're going to use paper napkins at your restaurant, you have to have napkin dispensers on each table. Look at Frisch's for example. You order a Big Boy and Fries and they give you one napkin, and the only way to get another one is if you order a hot fudge cake for desert. Now do you think that just two paper napkins are going to be able to handle the combined power of all those gooey sauces (tartar, ketchup and hot fudge)? Not bloody likely. Certainly not if you eat them the way I do.
July 14, 200618 yr I think that if you're going to use paper napkins at your restaurant, you have to have napkin dispensers on each table. Look at Frisch's for example. You order a Big Boy and Fries and they give you one napkin, and the only way to get another one is if you order a hot fudge cake for desert. Now do you think that just two paper napkins are going to be able to handle the combined power of all those gooey sauces (tartar, ketchup and hot fudge)? Not bloody likely. Certainly not if you eat them the way I do. How is that? Without hands? :)
July 14, 200618 yr ^ wow...were the banks proposed so long ago that people were still drinking coke from a glass bottle?
July 14, 200618 yr It really does make me weak in the knees to look at those renderings....they are incredibly gorgeous!!!!! On another note, I also hate the constant comparisons to Atlantic Station. It is a joke, AS was practically like one of those new urbanists developments plopped down in the middle of a cornfield. AS is not connected with the city in the least....even the developers that did AS said that I-75 was their Ohio River....what a terrible relationship! The Banks is also larger, connected, denser, and more mixed-use (hopefully)! On top of all of this, I am not that impressed with AS :|
July 14, 200618 yr ^I guess you find a well thought out/developed half of a project impressive. The NE portion of AS is quite nice, but then as you follow the development southwesternly it becomes less and less mixed-use and more and more auto-dependent/suburban style development.....but hey I guess it is impressive for Atlanta! Here is the siteplan for AS (note the IKEA is a big-box retailer located within this development): Oh and "their Ohio River" is immediately east of the development. http://www.epa.gov/region4/opm/nepa/images/lg_as_sitedesign.jpg
July 14, 200618 yr I think that if you're going to use paper napkins at your restaurant, you have to have napkin dispensers on each table. Look at Frisch's for example. You order a Big Boy and Fries and they give you one napkin, and the only way to get another one is if you order a hot fudge cake for desert. Now do you think that just two paper napkins are going to be able to handle the combined power of all those gooey sauces (tartar, ketchup and hot fudge)? Not bloody likely. Certainly not if you eat them the way I do. How is that? Without hands? :) Without any respect for public decency. For me, it's very erotic.
July 18, 200618 yr Developer drops out of Banks BY KIMBALL PERRY | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER One of the four groups vying to build The Banks, the proposed $600 million residential, commercial and retail project downtown, has pulled out. The Rockefeller Group/Kimco sent a July 11 letter to Bob Castellini, chairman of a group working to help select the developer, announcing its withdrawal. The letter gave no explanation for the decision. Full story text is available at http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060718/NEWS01/307180030/1077
July 18, 200618 yr Are these "developers" redesigning the project or are they utilizing the existing renderings for the project? I thought I remember hearing that each developer was submitting their own designs. - See where I am going with this? That is my cup of coffee to the right. They better not spill it!
July 18, 200618 yr I would prefer that the development team have at least one local partner. They would have a vested interest in doing a good job in their hometown with their rep on the line.
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