What a horrible bottleneck there. TKILTBAGs area seems like it's always underutilized anyway.  And the streetcar stop shows obvious signs of being a heaving bowl for exiting bar jockeys.

 

If you haven't been thrown up on by a dudebro, clueless exchange student, or drag queen while riding rail transit at 2 AM, you're not in a real city.

What a horrible bottleneck there. TKILTBAGs area seems like it's always underutilized anyway.  And the streetcar stop shows obvious signs of being a heaving bowl for exiting bar jockeys.

 

If you haven't been thrown up on by a dudebro, clueless exchange student, or drag queen while riding rail transit at 2 AM, you're not in a real city.

 

Or at the very least seen one or more of these folks do that. ;)

The railing at TK's was pulled in about a foot today. Not to say it won't creep back... The addition of these planters essentially removes this stretch as a make-shift taxi stand.  Not to say people won't still hop the fencing to load/unload vehicles. That is until the streetcar is running.

 

Speaking of which, not sure how they will install the future OCS poles with the planters in place. Hopefully all parties involved are talking.

Completed planters and the Reds/Hamilton County are also putting up some sort of railing along Second Street:

I'd much prefer they just do a better job with their road planning for 2nd and 3rd so cars don't treat them as a freeway ramp but until those changes occur this is a good way of creating a buffer zone between pedestrians and traffic. They're nicely designed and offer some character which The Banks is sorely lacking.

Just had a thought when I was running down there yesterday, what if those Second Street Barrier are for the Open Container District's delineation?

TKILTBAG isn't struggling and every time I see it it's literally jam-packed. The issue here is Tin Roof. Apparently Toby Keith's feels their lease was violated when The Banks brought in a competing country music venue, which Tin Roof sort of is. So the matter is going to court. But, as usual, the negative media in this city took liberties with the story and the "struggling to make it downtown" angle spread like wildfire. Cunningham today was trashing Toby's, saying it was about to close and that it's pretty bad down there when businesses can't hold off another month or so until baseball season. Typical WLW trash.

 

Bowdeta Tweh of the Enquirer just tweeted: "BREAKING: Toby Keith's I Love The Bar and Grill at The Banks has closed as a result of defaulting on its lease. Full story soon. @Enquirer"

 

It's unclear at this point whether it's related to the lease dispute from two summers ago, or if they're actually in financial trouble.

So would you guys rather have a grocery store or an Apple store go in there?  :wink:

 

It's obviously a pretty prominent spot due to the streetcar. 

Honestly, I'm so glad to see them go out of business.  Toby Keith's always looked terrible, from their signage to the terrible metal fences and cheap patio furniture.  Also, the clientele that frequented the bar pretty much sucked most of the time, perhaps more than any other Banks establishment.

Honestly, I'm so glad to see them go out of business.  Toby Keith's always looked terrible, from their signage to the terrible metal fences and cheap patio furniture.  Also, the clientele that frequented the bar pretty much sucked most of the time, perhaps more than any other Banks establishment.

 

Yeah, I think most people on here would agree. It's just not a great "front-door", so to speak, for that entire block. Also, it seemed to suffer from the Cadillac Ranch problem of being waaaaay too big. There's a reason that Tin Roof basically blew up and Toby Keith is consistently empty. I hope they either put something in there that warrants that big of a space (read: grocery or large scale retail) or split it up into more.

This is not a surprise or a disappointment.  That space has much more potential and I like the idea of it becoming retail.  Would an Apple store be realistic?  Grocery certainly seems so but would logistics be an issue as far as entrances, loading, etc.?

 

Edit: I also agree with edale that this place always seemed gross.  They couldn't even do simple things like upgrade the patio barriers or power wash the sidewalk periodically...which it needed.

So would you guys rather have a grocery store or an Apple store go in there?  :wink:

 

It's obviously a pretty prominent spot due to the streetcar. 

 

I assume the streetcar will help immensely, but I personally think that location sucks. There isn't much foot traffic unless you are specifically going to TKILTBAG and it feels like you are walking along a highway when you walk by it.

 

edit: I guess it does get good foot traffic for people walking to/from Reds games but I wonder if most walk by TKILTBAG going to/from Reds games.

Part of the problem is that right now nothing else "faces" 2nd Street. Crave doesn't wrap around the corner. The Freedom Center faces south to Freedom Way. And for now, that's it for 2nd Street. Toby Keith's location really suffers due to the empty office pad at the corner with Walnut.

 

Once the GE building and the new apartments open, that will help activate 2nd Street more. I think retail on 2nd Street would do much better if the city implemented a road diet (or at the very least, allow parking next to the curb throughout the day).

I recall reading that The Banks originally wanted this space to be a grocery store. With the second phase of residential about ready to open, now could be the time. With a streetcar stop right out front, this would also be a grocery option for anyone living in the downtown basin area.

Part of the problem is that right now nothing else "faces" 2nd Street. Crave doesn't wrap around the corner. The Freedom Center faces south to Freedom Way. And for now, that's it for 2nd Street. Toby Keith's location really suffers due to the empty office pad at the corner with Walnut.

 

Once the GE building and the new apartments open, that will help activate 2nd Street more. I think retail on 2nd Street would do much better if the city implemented a road diet (or at the very least, allow parking next to the curb throughout the day).

 

I always thought the same thing when I walk by. Outside of Reds traffic, it is a pretty poor location. Probably the worst one there. With the highway there and no caps, that 2nd/3rd street corridor creates a caveren affect where it does really appeal to pedestrians in a way the other parts of the banks. Maybe if there are a lot of other retail places on that block or blocks it can help, but I think it will always just be more of an isolated space the way the block is designed.

Well it seems the road diet is obvious even to lay people like me.  How do you arrange this along the length of 2nd given the streetcar runs along the existing curb on that block?  If you have a bump out at 2nd and Walnut, that far right lane becomes a streetcar only lane for the Current block.  Is that the best scenario?  It would be nice to see a proposal for the entire length of 2nd.

What could work is the existing southern sidewalk stays where it is and the streetcar operates in its own lane right next to the curb. There could then be a small raised barrier with a parking lane in what is currently the southern most driving lane. The curb bumpout could then extend further into the intersection at Walnut and the streetcar existing in a streetcar-only lane could help with the prioritized light working properly. The northern side could then receive full-day parking and curb bumpouts and then you've achieved a street that feels much smaller, has a protected streetcar only boarding lane and smaller pedestrian crossings. Put some plantings in the barrier between the streetcar and the parking lane and you soften the streetscape even more.

The right most lane (the lane where the tracks are) will soon become Transit Only, meaning no cars will be allowed there anyway. 2nd st at Walnut will become a right turn only and double solid white line will be painted adjacent to the track bed between Main & Walnut

^That makes sense. At the very least this will reduce the number of driving lanes. Some other traffic calming measures are definitely needed though to make that feel less like the glorified on ramp that it currently is.

 

Other than during games, does 2nd ever really get busy enough to justify its width? I'm never really down there are rush hour so I don't know but it seems like 2nd is always uncomfortably empty when I'm down in The Banks as it is.

I witnessed a New Jersey light rail train driver intentionally rear-end a pickup that arrogantly blocked the tracks in downtown Jersey City.  A streetcar operator laying on the horn, then giving a car a nice smack on the rump would be some solid entertainment for the patrons of whatever business takes the place of Toby Keith's. 

^That makes sense. At the very least this will reduce the number of driving lanes. Some other traffic calming measures are definitely needed though to make that feel less like the glorified on ramp that it currently is.

 

Other than during games, does 2nd ever really get busy enough to justify its width? I'm never really down there are rush hour so I don't know but it seems like 2nd is always uncomfortably empty when I'm down in The Banks as it is.

 

It gets pretty crowded at rush hour even without games.

I think this would be an excellent location for a Trader Joes.

I think this would be an excellent location for a Trader Joes.

 

Or ALDI.

I think this would be an excellent location for a Trader Joes.

 

Or ALDI.

 

Demographics downtown are more Trader Joes than Aldi.  Besides they are the same company ;)

I think this would be an excellent location for a Trader Joes.

 

Or ALDI.

 

Demographics downtown are more Trader Joes than Aldi.  Besides they are the same company ;)

 

How about Aldi Süd?

Well I hope everyone working at Toby Keiths is able to find another job quickly...

 

For a music venue, it seems to me they never really connected with the local music scene. I'm friends with a lot of musicians, some of whose bands could have in fit in there, but never saw anyone post on Facebook that they had a gig there. I don't get it, it would have made sense to book a band with a local following at least once in a while either in conjunction with a Reds or Bengals game or on a winter night in the offseason.  Maybe that's a function of being a big corporate chain from out of town. But conversely I've never heard about of a show from an out of town band there that I would want to go see.

Isn't Tin Roof just about the same way? There are tons of Americana/folk/etc. bands in Cincinnati that would fit right into their image. But last time I checked their schedule, it was full of cover bands.

Btw check this search out:

 

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=toby%20keiths%20sue

 

Seems like Toby Keiths was a scam, they are having these same issues all over.  There used to be this dubious hate site talking about how their strategy was to extort cities of money.

^Best headline goes to:

 

The Collection falls out of love with Toby Keith’s bar and grill

Speaking of lawsuits: Toby Keith’s operator leaves trail of lawsuits

Sounds like Toby Keith loved bars, grills, and Hollywood accounting. 

I heard there is already a new tenant identified for the old Toby Keith place. Does anyone have any insight?

I heard there is already a new tenant identified for the old Toby Keith place. Does anyone have any insight?

 

Probably another restaurant/bar... but man imagine if it was a grocery of some kind. Right in front of the streetcar stop. The amount of ridership that alone would cause (at one end of the line) would be massive.

Hopefully they get a much higher quality tenant this time. When Toby's opened GE / Hotel / 300 more units were not on the radar at that point. A small grocery would be awesome here.

 

I just have a hard time believing any restaurant can be successful in a 13,000 square foot space there. Need to have competent management for sure. As Something like 5 other Toby's had closed since Spring of 2015 in other Cities.

Whole Foods pleaseeeeeee

Have there been any announcements/rumors on retail at the GE section of the Banks or is it still way too early for that?

Whole Foods pleaseeeeeee

 

Average Whole Foods size is 36,000-39,000sf.  Their prepared foods would probably be a nice fit for downtown office workers, but no way they cram into 16,000sf at Toby Keith's or 20,000sf available in the GE building. 

Banks hotel design gets panel’s OK

 

Cincinnati’s Urban Design Review Board unanimously approved the final design for the AC Hotel by Marriott at the Banks on Thursday.

The approval comes after months of back-and-forth between developer Winegardner & Hammons and the panel, which reviews all design decisions for downtown Cincinnati and advises the city manager on them.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2015/08/06/banks-hotel-design-gets-panel-s-ok.html

I like it, but if I were them I would want an opening from the conference/event center portion out onto Schmidlapp event lawn. 

 

EDIT: Some kind of integration there could earn $ for the parks by people using the hotel and reserving the event lawn. 

I'm really holding off until I see the materials in person. A design like this can be really heightened by wise material and detailing choices. And AC Hotels seem to have a knack for buildings with simple (somewhat boring) massings yet use interesting materials to clad them and wind up with an interesting product. I'm hoping this is what's happening here. Those renderings are lacking materiality which makes almost anything look unflattering.

Probably wouldn't have been feasible but I wish they could line the front (Joe Nuxhall Way) with bars/restaurants. I think it'd be cool to have more bars directly across from the stadium. From the looks of it that side will be just the entrance for the hotel and parking with the exception of the restaurant on the corner....Still, a hotel there will fill out that empty space nicely.

I like that the UDRB pressure led to a few changes, most notably the opening up of the retail spaces along Freedom Way or whatever bullshit name the Banks street has.

 

In other news, I saw that the parking lot south of Phase 2 has large equipment on it, and is currently being broken up.  Looks like construction on the new garage portion will be starting soon, which is really great.  The footprint that they have blocked off only extends about 2/3 of the way south, leaving a decent amount of space at the southern edge of that quadrant.  I'm assuming this land will be purchased or transferred to the Park Board, and that they will expand the park to cover this area.  I'm impressed and encouraged by how quickly they are moving on to the next phase!

^

It amazed me how long they waited between phase 1 and 2.

 

Board Member 1: "Wow phase one was 100% occupied a month after opening."

Board Member 2: "I know, we should probably make an effort to get phase 2 open as soon as possible to cash in on all this demand."

Everyone Else: "No, let's wait half a freaking decade despite increasing demands for living in the CBD and continuously improving amenities along the riverfront."

 

^That's how I feel the last 4-5 years has gone.

 

But it's good phase 3 will be started before phase 2 is even finished. Being completed by 2025 with everything in Smale, every aspect of The Banks, and possibly the caps (a man can dream right?) would be a good time frame to aim for.

It amazed me how long they waited between phase 1 and 2.

 

Board Member 1: "Wow phase one was 100% occupied a month after opening."

Board Member 2: "I know, we should probably make an effort to get phase 2 open as soon as possible to cash in on all this demand."

Everyone Else: "No, let's wait half a freaking decade despite increasing demands for living in the CBD and continuously improving amenities along the riverfront."

 

^That's how I feel the last 4-5 years has gone.

 

But it's good phase 3 will be started before phase 2 is even finished. Being completed by 2025 with everything in Smale, every aspect of The Banks, and possibly the caps (a man can dream right?) would be a good time frame to aim for.

 

We may even have five years or so where the whole area is construction-free, before they start the inevitable renovation of Phase 1 or major rehabs to one of the stadia...

I actually wouldn't be surprised if in 5 years or so they start having serious problems with the EIFS. So many times it's used it becomes a problem in at least one area and then the only logical fix is to remove it all, fix the area most affected, and clad it in a real material that isn't a pile of shit thrown up onto a wall.

 

I hate EIFS.

It amazed me how long they waited between phase 1 and 2.

 

Board Member 1: "Wow phase one was 100% occupied a month after opening."

Board Member 2: "I know, we should probably make an effort to get phase 2 open as soon as possible to cash in on all this demand."

Everyone Else: "No, let's wait half a freaking decade despite increasing demands for living in the CBD and continuously improving amenities along the riverfront."

 

^That's how I feel the last 4-5 years has gone.

 

But it's good phase 3 will be started before phase 2 is even finished. Being completed by 2025 with everything in Smale, every aspect of The Banks, and possibly the caps (a man can dream right?) would be a good time frame to aim for.

 

No what happened was they submitted a design to the Bengals for review and Mike Brown being the 8@#P(&*)(#@ that he is, refused it.  The board then had to enter negotiations with him so that he could extort more money out of the county.  This was all over 6 feet!

 

I have nothing  nice to say about  that jerk.  Everyone here should watch John Oliver's segment on stadiums.

Here's what we should do re: Fort Washington Way caps: a Gondola Air Tram. Line begins in Price Hill Incline District. Station at Queen City Barrel site in Lower Price Hill.The line swings over to align itself with FWW and a Sky Station is built in a building atop one of the highway caps. Line continues on to end on top of Mt. Adams.

 

Here's a video from Turkey:

That air tram looks sweet! I would amend the route to just come down 5th street; completely redo Government Square to have the air tram on a second story above the bus bays. How would that be for some sick multi-modal integration! Probably not possible overall, unfortunately, because of how close to the building you'd be.

 

A much better idea, I think, would be to have something like that go from Mt Adams to the empty lots just north of P&G on Broadway.

#ParkingLotsof3rdStreet

 

A structure built on any one of these lots has the chance to significantly alter the face of our city skyline.  They would also be highly valuable buildings too given they are directly facing the Banks, with proximity to Smale Riverfront Park and streetcar.  I would tend to think that something would be built on these before Fort Washington Way is capped and built upon but I could be wrong.  I think the most prime locations ready for new development are the Olympic Auto Park 2 story garages. west side of 3rd and Race looks really buildable too. Thoughts? 

 

3rd and Elm

 

 

3rd and Race

 

 

3rd and Race

 

 

3rd and Vine- right across from planned 309 Vine redevelopment

 

 

3rd and Walnut

 

 

3rd and Main- a more substantial garage

 

 

3rd and Hammond Alley