I know some people who have moved in to The Radius and they are happy with what they're getting for the price they're paying. It's not where I would choose to live, but for some people it's exactly what they want.

 

 

Bingo. I know a few at the Current too. They're very happy with their rent.

Everybody is tripping!

 

Look up rents to a comparable place in downtown Chicago, it's going to be much higher.  I know a guy from my hometown and he was a very successful top sales manager who moved every 12-18 months.  He was living at the Banks and paying those type of prices because it was nothing to him, and he wanted to be in the thick of everything and the hottest area in town, which is downtown and OTR.  There are a LOT of people like that.  They don't know how long their companies will move them from place to place so they rent a nice apartment because they can make bank, then they get sent to another market.  I think this guy started in KC, then Chicago, then Cincy, last I talked to him he was in Austin.  There are a lot of people like that.  I remember him telling me how cheap Cincy was compared to Chicago, I think he paid twice as much for his apartment in Chicago, and he was making more money in Cincy than he was there.

 

So I would say people who know they are probably going to live in Cincy the rest of their lives or for a good minute will probably want to buy a house eventually, there are a lot of options for that.  But if they make good dough and want to live in front of all the action, and they are mobile employees, the Banks is a good spot, as good in the city for that type of person. 

 

So I think people should open up their eyes and realize there are some 28 year olds in this city who like to party, are mobile employees, and make over 100k a year because they know how to sell.

 

 

$1,400/month for new construction downtown is great, even for a studio, no matter the city.  I paid $1,100/month for an "efficiency" (like a studio but with some half-walls and French doors into the sleeping area) in Lincoln Park, maybe 350 square feet, in 2002 in a 1960s mid-rise.  Yes there were some $800/month rentals in older buildings with no parking and a bit more off the beaten path, if you wanted to sign a 2-year lease and pay your own heat, but again this was as far from downtown Chicago as Hyde Park is from downtown Cincinnati, and 14 years ago. 

 

Even here in Cincinnati the $1/sf/month number is falling more and more into "cheap apartment" territory as opposed to the "normal apartment" range that it used to be.  $1.25/sf seems to be a bit more normal nowadays.  That new construction in buildings with tons of on-site amenities and a downtown address isn't commanding $2,000 per month or more from the get-go is pretty remarkable. 

Character of the building and neighborhood absolutely 100% is factored in to pricing, by the way, so I don't really know what you were talking about with that point.  I brought up Oakley and Mt. Lookout because they are both desirable neighborhoods with many amenities, access to large employment centers, low crime rates, high income areas, etc.  That one could rent a house in one of these desirable neighborhoods for the same cost as a 1 bedroom apartment in a freeway adjacent (look up studies linking freeway proximity to respiratory disease and cancer rates-- it's far beyond a noise issue), construction zone, tourist trap, is telling of the spiky and artificially inflated market of Downtown and OTR.  If our city was booming, the rates in existing desirable neighborhoods would also be sky rocketing, but they're not.  So, if someone wants to pay $1400 for a place at the Banks- go for it. I can still think that's a foolish choice, and that the individual is being manipulated by an artificially 'hot' market.

 

Everywhere in the central area (downtown to Northside) and on the east side has growing rent.  I'm not sure what you are talking about here...

 

Also there are tons of high value Freeway Adjacent properties in other cities.  Freeway adjacent will lower values a bit, but when there are enough other amenities nearby to offset that and a shortage of new housing with an urban footprint in a walkable part of town they will still command a premium.

Plenty of people just make a crap ton of money. I have several peers making well into the 6 figures and my group of friends are only in the 25-32 year range. $1,400/month for a single person making 6 figures is hardly a stretch. Duel income situation makes it damn near negligible.

 

I know my viewpoint of wealth is a little different than the average person since my clients are all wealthy so I see it on a daily basis, but the amount of exceptionally wealthy young people (and not just ones who inherited it or had wealthy family members invest in their endeavors) is surprising. It's just that they used to keep to themselves in places like Terrace Park, Mariemont, Indian Hill, Hyde Park, etc. but are just now starting to look to the core where there is product they actually desire.

 

According to recent data 12/100 people in the CBD/OTR makes a personal income of over $100k/year. If there are around 17,000 people in those neighborhoods that alone is over 2,000 people in a few square miles earning over 100k. To someone making that much $1,400/month is a much smaller % of income than me spending $650/month to own my place on Race Street and yet I save a ton of money and will be a millionaire several times over by retirement at the rate I'm going.

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/politics/2016/04/12/lawmakers-give-10m-banks-shakespeare-company-art-museum-shorted/82891692/

 

This seems to support the notion that UC wouldn't build its Law School on the pad south of GE and Radius which is a good sign.

I think having the Howl...brand helps. There's probably a large group out there with good memories of that name.

 

 

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I used to love the Howl at the Moon. It was a fun concept that got stale for a while but it is time it came back. I think it is a good addition to the banks

I'm sorry, but it's ridiculous to think someone would spend $1400 a month to rent a one bedroom apartment ANYWHERE in Cincinnati, let alone at the crappy Banks.

 

Um, why? Because of some outdated, self-defeatist understanding of demand in 2016 Cincinnati?

 

No, because you could rent a pretty nice apartment in a desirable neighborhood of LA for $1400/month, and Cincinnati is certainly no LA. Because I pay under $1000/month for a 1 bedroom place in a better location, with a better view, and loads more character than whatever is offered at The Banks. Because you could rent damn near an entire house in Oakley or Mt. Lookout for $1400/month.  Because Downtown Cincinnati is dead on the weekday nights and weekend days.  Because the river is a nasty S**t brown color 9 months of the year.  Because you're literally living in a construction zone if you rent at Radius, and it's going to be a noisy construction zone for years to come.  Because you're literally adjacent to a huge freeway. Because the latest tenants announced for The Banks are a dueling piano bar and a bowling concept.  Need I continue...?

 

There are plenty of affordable housing in Cincinnati. I know a complex in Green Twp about 10 minutes from downtown where you get a large 2 bedroom for $700 with a dishwasher and balcony. This is pretty reasonable for those looking for an affordable place.

I like this logo much better than the old.

 

http://cin.ci/1S8v5fI

 

 

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To go back on the topic of rents, look at this article on Seattle's light rail.  Talking about the SE side of Seattle, apartments are being built that will rent out for $1,600.00 for a 1 unit and $2,600.00 for a 2 unit.  This is on a transit line that connects the city, but at the same time, I think a lot of people don't understand how high rents are in other cities and how there is no reason there can't be a good sized market for apartments in the range of $1,200.00 to $1,600.00.  The amenities are there and getting better all the time.

 

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/check-out-uws-new-light-rail-station-and-how-it-could-transform-seattle/

 

Here is where those apartments are being built, not exactly an amenity filled area:

https://www.google.com/maps/@47.5596962,-122.2914802,3a,75y,71.63h,74.03t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-5N1geSZKC8qjISSNuHjdQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

 

In downtown Chicago, it seems a 1 bedroom, on the low end is $1,600.00 on up.  Cincinnati has some people who make good money that want to live downtown.  I don't see a slow down, especially when you also consider all the people out in the suburbs who have a lot of discretionary income, like empty nesters and kids out of college that have the choice of moving to Chicago and Cincinnati

 

http://www.apartments.com/?bb=_q-khtmnxJ1jh7oC

This is a pretty great photo of The Banks and the downtown skyline from the new website:

 

To go back on the topic of rents, look at this article on Seattle's light rail.  Talking about the SE side of Seattle, apartments are being built that will rent out for $1,600.00 for a 1 unit and $2,600.00 for a 2 unit.  This is on a transit line that connects the city, but at the same time, I think a lot of people don't understand how high rents are in other cities and how there is no reason there can't be a good sized market for apartments in the range of $1,200.00 to $1,600.00.  The amenities are there and getting better all the time.

 

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/check-out-uws-new-light-rail-station-and-how-it-could-transform-seattle/

 

Here is where those apartments are being built, not exactly an amenity filled area:

https://www.google.com/maps/@47.5596962,-122.2914802,3a,75y,71.63h,74.03t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-5N1geSZKC8qjISSNuHjdQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

 

In downtown Chicago, it seems a 1 bedroom, on the low end is $1,600.00 on up.  Cincinnati has some people who make good money that want to live downtown.  I don't see a slow down, especially when you also consider all the people out in the suburbs who have a lot of discretionary income, like empty nesters and kids out of college that have the choice of moving to Chicago and Cincinnati

 

http://www.apartments.com/?bb=_q-khtmnxJ1jh7oC

 

Well rising home costs and rent benefit relatively few people and so definitely are not a net positive for a community other than their ability to motivate repairs to historic buildings without much or any government subsidy.  And as I have remarked several times, high rent paid to big apartment complexes is often paid-out to investors who live in other areas of the country or world.  The money escapes the metro, just like gasoline purchases. 

Yeah, I don't disagree with anything you are saying.

 

I don't know the partner make up of specific apartment complexes or condos in Cincinnati right now, but I would bet even the local developers have some equity from out of metro investors, so I would say even some of the complexes right now, there is money flowing out.  Just a sign of an uptick in investment, and nothing you can really do about it.  Do rising rents in say, 10 out of town developer projects, raise the rent levels and ROI for local developer projects?  I think that is the question the matters most.

 

That said, I think the best thing about rising rents is what you say, motivation for repairs on historic properties, since Cincinnati has a glut of them that need rehabbed.  We are still at the tip of the iceberg in Downtown and OTR alone, IMO.  Look at all the buildings on 4th Street downtown, 7th Street, Court Street, etc. that are in a depressed state in otherwise beautiful buildings.  If new construction pushes rents up, these properties will get bought up and redeveloped faster and faster.

 

This is a bit off topic, but I really hope the 4th and Race Project has a great design and landing on 4th Street.  Of course anything is better than the current abomination, but if they can get the design on the street right, I think that area of 4th Street will really pick up steam with rehabs.  Then you got the two other big projects on 4th Street at corners on top of this, and you would think the inbetween buildings will follow suite in the next 5 years, assuming the projects keep pushing through.

I like this logo much better than the old.

 

http://cin.ci/1S8v5fI

 

 

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Oh man, I think it looks horrible!

It looks like an online university

Kind of reminded me of Dave & Buster's old logo

 

^So, you're saying it's not an improvement over this???

 

It's a dumb name because it's really just one bank, the north bank of the river. 

In downtown Chicago, it seems a 1 bedroom, on the low end is $1,600.00 on up.  Cincinnati has some people who make good money that want to live downtown.  I don't see a slow down, especially when you also consider all the people out in the suburbs who have a lot of discretionary income, like empty nesters and kids out of college that have the choice of moving to Chicago and Cincinnati

 

The thing is Cincinnati is from a regional perspective a lot more healthy than most of it's "rust belt" peers, the issue was that previously most of the wealth in the region was concentrated in the suburbs.  Now some of that wealth is starting to go back into the city - I think having this happen is generally a good thing so long as it doesn't completely go out of control which IMO won't happen for decades.  A result of this is going to be higher rents in some parts of town and demand that can meet it.  I don't think its artificial.

 

Also as to the comment about money flowing out of the region, well the local developers should up their game if they want to capture more of this money.  With people like the Josephs wanting to do 1980s style speculative HQ development I think there is a real problem with Cincinnati's local development community (with some notable exceptions) understanding that things have changed in fact that's a big chunk of the reason why there is such a shortage of housing downtown right now.  They need to take a few more risks and some of that risk taking is coming from developers from other places most notably Indianapolis which has been at this for a lot longer than Cincinnati has.

The best thing the developers could do branding-wise is follow in the footsteps of the "Gateway District" branding. Let it define the riverfront until it's established then phase it out until it's just a part of Downtown like it should be.

 

 

^So, you're saying it's not an improvement over this???

 

 

Yeah, I'd rather have that logo to be honest.

It looks like an online university

 

That's funny. I can see that too. I like it because it plays much better on "city property" like street signs, wayfinding, and bus/SC stops. Looks more official than the old.

 

I also like how they brought in elements of the major tenants. There's a home plate, a center court circle from basketball...Still looking for the goal post, NURFC flame, and the GE logo.

It looks like an online university

 

 

It looks like an organization that accredits online universities. 

 

 

The Courier confirms that the piano bar and bowling alley will be going in to the Toby Keith's space:

 

Cincinnati's own Howl at the Moon music bar is collaborating with Splitsville Luxury Lanes to renovate the 16,000-square-foot Toby Keith's space into a bowling alley with live music and dueling pianos that can accommodate 800 people. The grand opening is planned for mid-summer.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2016/04/18/bowling-piano-bar-coming-to-the-banks.html

The Courier is reporting that The Banks turned away a "mega-retailer".  It's subscription only, anyone know what it is?

The Courier is reporting that The Banks turned away a "mega-retailer".  It's subscription only, anyone know what it is?

Starbucks.

The Courier is reporting that The Banks turned away a "mega-retailer".  It's subscription only, anyone know what it is?

Starbucks.

 

What's the reasoning? Is there a prospective local place with a non-compete clause? 

I'm curious as well. I actually think that could have been really good. National retail brands often use Starbucks as a measure of whether or not a development is viable.

I was disappointed at first that it might be a retailer like H&M, Zara, etc... which could provide a decent base to encourage other retail.  Glad to see the title should have actually read "Chain Food & Beverage" not "mega-retailer."

 

Starbucks at The Banks would have been excellent. I am baffled why the development team said no to them. The leasing agent at The Banks needs to be replaced. There's not a single place down there (maybe other than Ruth's Chris) that I would choose to go to.

Starbucks (or a local place like Coffee Emporium) makes perfect sense for the retail space that is on the south west side of phase 1 that has never been filled that over looks Smale and the river.

They said no to Starbucks because they wanted Taste of Belgium, which they got.

They said no to Starbucks because they wanted Taste of Belgium, which they got.

 

Can you explain that? Were they looking at the same space and Starbucks was unwilling to go to one of the other open spaces? I don't think TOB and Starbucks are similar at all, so it doesn't seem like they would really compete with each other.

They specifically wanted to find tenants that were open for breakfast, lunch, and dinner so that there are options for the new GE office workers and Radius residents. Starbucks did not fit that criteria.

Starbucks would be a great addition to the Banks, but I understand their decision.

 

Hopefully they can carve out a small space like the Jimmy Johns space and get Starbucks in soon.

They said no to Starbucks because they wanted Taste of Belgium, which they got.

My guess is that in order to secure TOB they had to say no to Starbucks.

They said no to Starbucks because they wanted Taste of Belgium, which they got.

My guess is that in order to secure TOB they had to say no to Starbucks.

 

If that's case, it's truly silly because those two establishments serve entirely different purposes and markets. Taste of Belgium chose to go into Rookwood, right across Edmondson from a Starbucks... so I doubt they would have stipulated to The Banks that they don't want a Starbucks nearby for the sake of limiting competition. Retail districts benefit from a critical mass of establishments with sufficient diversity to consistently draw a large population of shoppers. I think Taste of Belgium gets that (they started at Findlay, then Vine St, then Rookwood). I'm not sure if the folks at Carter though really know how to build out a vibrant retail district.

Is that true? I don't  think "mega-retailer" is Starbucks. Does it actually say that in the article?

GE's big addition to the Cincinnati riverfront

Bowdeya Tweh, [email protected] 4:40 p.m. EDT May 14, 2016

 

It has been a coup from Day One for The Banks to land General Electric Co. as its first office tenant.

 

The prospect of more than 2,000 people working on Downtown Cincinnati's riverfront is expected to fuel spending at existing bars and restaurants, to persuade new operators to join the fray and to give a boost to apartment leasing.

 

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/money/2016/05/14/ges-big-addition-cincinnati-riverfront/83545678/

Does anybody know what will fill this space next to the Vine St steps? The garage ends and then there's about 30' of space before the wall terminates.

 

 

Would be sweet if they lined it with some townhomes, but I doubt that's possible with the flood plain.  My guess is a continuation of Smale Park

I believe that will be part of a future phase of Smale Park.

According to the master plan that block will be elevated. What will go on it is a good question. Some versions show park, some show a building. The most recent Master Plan shows it as "future development" like the other building sites.

 

Current Master Plan:

 

Previous Master Plan:

 

There will be a pedestrian-only extension of Ted Berry Way that will separate the block that's under construction now from the block in question and will connect over to the cul de sac that will serve as the termination of Race Street. It will create a grid of sorts but won't be entirely vehicular in nature which I think is a good move. Obviously this is all subject to change but that's what the current Master Plan shows.

I didn't realize the south section of Lot 16 would also be hotel

That was originally intended to be for-sale townhomes but apparently financing was an issue so it was given over to the hotel. I really wish something with enough height to block the hideous rearside of Current was being built, but that ship has sailed.

Update on the proposed dock: http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/local/smale/2016/05/18/parks-leaders-decide-fate-riverfront-boat-dock/83327006/

I've never noticed that little sliver of Lot 13 north of PBS.  Does anyone have any insight on the idea there?

I hope that lot gets developed, completely filling the space between 2nd, Elm, Paul Brown, and the Plum St walkway. That parcel is a decent size: 1.189 acres: 

http://wedge3.hcauditor.org/view/re/0830007000900/2015/summary

 

But I suspect it will be the last of the lots at The Banks to be developed due to its awkward shape and due to being the farthest from the rest of the activity at The Banks.

 

From that angle it almost looks like Race burrows down under the parking lot and under Mehring Way to reappear just south of the road, by the river. Would be a cool pedestrian feature but totally unnecessary and expensive.

Obviously it won't have the underground aspect you mention, but there will be a pedestrian connection to that crosswalk that leads to the Castellini Esplanade (or whatever it's called) from the Race Street extension which will be nice. Will allow quicker access to the riverfront from that portion of The Banks.