The good thing about the practice fields is that they open up the view from I-75.  Paul Brown Stadium looks amazing when you're driving into the city.

 

^You can see where the warehouse used to be clearly on Google maps, it really wouldn't have blocked the view of the stadium from I-75.  It was north of the northern half of the stadium.  I agree it's a dramatic view, but mishandling of the lease back in the late 90's has led to the present quagmire, and much of it could have been avoided with competant/incorruptible individuals serving as county commissioners.  I really can't believe someone hasn't taken a hit out on Bob Bendinghaus, after getting us in this mess he got hired by...the Bengals. 

 

To revise my previous post, they could have at least put off buying Caddy's and that strip of buildings until a developer was ready to improve on that property.  Of course back in 1998 people thought it would be happening by 2002, instead the county has been paying debt on bonds issued to buy those properties back in 1998.  I don't know what the purchase price or interest rate is on those bonds, but they will surely spend upwards of a million on debt by the time this is all paid off just for having bought that property too early by a decade. 

 

 

That's all water under the bridge.  I'm really excited by what's going to be happening in the near future:

 

- the reopening of Fountain Square on October 14

- the new Central Riverfront Park between the stadiums + The Banks

- new condo highrises such as The Edge

- and best of all, significant investment in OTR

 

Banks group to start talks

AIG/Carter is singled out for negotiations

BY JON NEWBERRY AND DAN KLEPAL | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITERS

 

The Banks Working Group officially decided Friday to begin negotiations with Atlanta-based AIG/Carter on a master development agreement for Cincinnati's central riverfront, but panel members stressed repeatedly that the most critical work still lies ahead.

 

Full story text is available at

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060916/BIZ01/609160336

One of the most insidious thing about modern starchitecture is how it seems focused entirely on single, signature buildings that create a statement (usually that only people in the know "get").  Anyone have any examples of a modern area or neighborhood that creates a "true urban aesthetic"?

Don't count on The Banks before it's hatched

 

by Cliff Peale

 

So now AIG/Carter is the hero.

 

The Atlanta-based partnership is in exclusive negotiations to develop The Banks. After seven years of inaction, we'll finally build something on the riverfront.

 

Our long regional nightmare, to paraphrase Gerald Ford, is over.

 

Well, not quite.

 

Full story text is available at

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060917/COL01/609170301/1081/BIZ

Please, leaders, don't bounce this check for the Banks

 

BY PETER BRONSON | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER

 

Cincinnati spent more than $1 billion on a regional rec-room on the riverfront - a place to party, where everyone would gather for festivals, baseball, football, housing, nightclubs, restaurants and entertainment.

 

Ten years later, it's a great place to be alone.

 

Full story text is available at

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060917/COL05/609170362

I'm still pissed that they didn't accept my bid:)

Scenes at atlanticstation.com are enough to make Cincinnati flatten its nose against the window. "Picture a community with unsurpassed architectural quality, a fusion of functionality and finesse that combines an attractive mix of affordable, middle-income, and up-scale housing with world-class restaurants, theaters, and retailers."

 

OK, we can picture it on our riverfront. But can we picture the leadership to get it done?

 

Lets hope they don't build that excuse for an urban project on our riverfront.  Atlanta, as a whole, naturally feels suburban.  I would hope that most people don't want/expect that kind of a project here....this is a completely different monster.  I hope that AIG isn't like most developers, where they take similar projects and simply stamp them into the new location.  There is much more to an urban development project than just the tenants that fill it!

Did anyone else read the Business Courrier editorial this week?  OMG!

 

"The Banks Working Group should abandon plans to make the central riverfront a $600 million commercial mecca and instead enhance the riverfront park plans already set to get under way there."

 

The reasons cited:

1.  Current real estate conditions will make this complicated project take upwards of  10 years to complete.  Cincinnati doesn't have time, and the uncertainty is delaying other developement in the city's core.

2.  The Ovation Project in Newport will win tenants faster

3.  An inspiring speech by a protege of Richard Daley who helped create Millenium Park.  We would be better spending money to make a horticultural wonderland.

4.  $70 million financing gap!

 

"Community leaders...should be able to see that the vision for the Banks - while correct a decade ago - no longer works.  Let's admit we missed the opportunity and move on."

 

I wonder who wrote that editorial?  Could it have been Bill Butler ....maybe?

^LOL!!!

I think it was just some yahoo writing a letter to the editor, what a tool!

This reminds me of the wheat planted on the Battery Park landfill in 1992:

 

 

 

Also, this letter is ridiculous because the writer clearly doesn't understand that the park can't be built until the parking garages are.  Or the Bengals practice fields are paved over. 

Sorry if I didn't make it clear that this was written by the editorial board of the Courier.

 

I kinda like the idea of the river being a giant park, like Chicago.  Living, business and shopping should be in the city. The Banks, as a commercial district, is much less important to this city than the success of the CBD, OTR and the University areas.  These are all suffering now, and the Banks is a distraction.

Also, this letter is ridiculous because the writer clearly doesn't understand that the park can't be built until the parking garages are. 

 

Why is that? I thought the park was to be built at the level of Mehring(sp?) Way?

The garage parking is necessary to offset the loss of parking where the park will be built.  That and the fact that it is not fully funded has kept the park from being constructed.  Again, if the Bengals practice fields were paved over, that would completely offset that parking.  Look on Google satellite images and you will see that the practice fields cover as much space as the space currently used for parking between PBS and the suspension bridge:

 

http://www.google.com/maphp?hl=en&q=cincinnati&ie=UTF8&t=k&om=1&z=17&ll=39.095397,-84.515666&spn=0.004005,0.010729

 

And further complicating that problem is that surface parking west of the freedom center doesn't count in the Bengals lease, that is in fact why it hasn't been paved over, allowing construction of the park to begin south of a rerouted Mehring Way.  Of course this problem would go away if Mike Brown wasn't from Mars and would agree to temporarily suspend that requirement of the lease. 

 

 

^Okay, thanks for the information; I didn't know that parking was included in the Bengals agreement.

And further complicating that problem is that surface parking west of the freedom center doesn't count in the Bengals lease, that is in fact why it hasn't been paved over, allowing construction of the park to begin south of a rerouted Mehring Way.  Of course this problem would go away if Mike Brown wasn't from Mars and would agree to temporarily suspend that requirement of the lease. 

 

Do you mean EAST of the Freedom Center?

Yes. And I believe The Bengals also have final say on what is built in the new blocks WEST of Race St.  I believe the desire to develop the blocks east of the Freedom Center first has been thwarted because it is the western garages that need to be built in order to free up the riverfront park space.  It's a complete mess that only a financial windfall will solve.

^Yes, somebody with cache, an experienced financial wizard.  Are the Banks Working Group meetings open to the public?

Thank God for AIG/Carter.  Any local yahoo would have been a disaster.

Sorry if I didn't make it clear that this was written by the editorial board of the Courier.

 

I kinda like the idea of the river being a giant park, like Chicago.  Living, business and shopping should be in the city. The Banks, as a commercial district, is much less important to this city than the success of the CBD, OTR and the University areas.  These are all suffering now, and the Banks is a distraction.

 

I thought the Banks was part of the CBD. Along with the stadiums and riverfront.

I kinda like the idea of the river being a giant park, like Chicago.  Living, business and shopping should be in the city. The Banks, as a commercial district, is much less important to this city than the success of the CBD, OTR and the University areas.  These are all suffering now, and the Banks is a distraction.

 

First of all, the Banks is in the city even though it is just a pile of dirt right now...it is just as important to the vitality of the city as the CBD and OTR.  Therefore, this would just be an extension of downtown more or less.  Downtown Cincinnati currently lacks a major component of residential, and very little for the average person to enjoy.  This is the chance for Cincy to add this element to its downtown.

 

As for all of the areas you mentioned: "suffering"....I would check that information a little more closely.  It is my understanding (from business owners) that during the school year (3/4 year) that the businesses surrounding UC do some of the greatest business compared to their other locations throughout the region!

 

I'm not saying that everything is great and wonderful.....just don't unnecessarily crap on Cincinnati.

What an opportunity the city has in front of it.  To have that kind of undeveloped space so centrally and perfectly located (b/w a central business area and a river) is a dream for developers.  While retail is obviously important, IMO the key is get people living downtown and specifically at the banks. It seems Cincy has been doing a good job of this in recent years with all the condo renovation and construction.  If the resedential part of the Banks project is done well, people will live there, and if people live there, the business/retail and entertainment will take care of itself through market forces.  I don't think the banks necessarily needs an "attraction".  B/w the two stadiums, the river (and future river park) and the Freedom Center, there is plenty to bring people down there.

^Let's all please recall that the only reason that this area is "undeveloped" is because it was destroyed, by the city and the county working together.  We bought numerous Christmas trees and had plenty of Spaghetti dinners down there, and the Riverwalk hike that Den 3 (Knox Presbyterian Church) took in the Fall of '88 was just as fun as it would have been if a park was at the foot of the Suspension Bridge instead of Fries Brothers.

 

Look, I want to see the Banks completed as much as anyone else.  And by that I mean I think that when it comes down to it, there are legitimate claims to greater priorities for the future of the region.  First and foremost, increasing government revenues (both for the city and county) by practically any means necessary.  I don't see how increasing both downtown and City residential population can be honestly encouraged without at least some movement toward competent and convenient rail transport that links the two major employment centers of downtown & Clifton with each other and the airport.  I fear that by ignoring the pressing and relevant questions about revenue and transportation, at least concurrently with the project, it will be D.O.A., if it ever gets built.

I don't think the banks necessarily needs an "attraction".

 

Yes it does.  Are people from all over the country going to flock to our riverfront because of it's wonderful array of condos and service retailers?  Or have I been mistaken about what this project is all about, and in actuality this is simply supposed to be a local neighborhood that will do nothing more than fill up some empty riverfront space?  If so, then why bother making it a world-class development?

 

My whole impression from years ago, when the concept was first conceived, was that the "fabulous Banks project" was supposed to be Cincinnati's new front door - the place that was supposed to draw tourists from all over the country.  I don't see how condos and a park are supposed to do that.  Any entertainment idea that is mentioned will be zapped away by Kentucky and put in Ovation.  You know it's true.  If Hard Rock WERE to decide to come to the area, it would be wooed by Newport or Covington, and most likely be built there because Cincinnati would sit on it's hands, wasting time - and Kentucky would *snap* their fingers and work out a deal in no time flat.  If an ESPN Zone were to look at the area, same thing would happen.  Why?  Because Kentucky knows how to get stuff done, and get it done fast.  All Cincinnati knows how to do is dicker around and let opportunities pass it by.  Remember the aquarium?  Originally was proposed for the Banks.  Same with the Hofbrauhaus.  So yes, Cincinnati needs a major attraction at the Banks - something year round.  Something unique that people all over the world could see, and think "Hey, that's in Cincinnati."   

 

B/w the two stadiums, the river (and future river park) and the Freedom Center, there is plenty to bring people down there.

 

So why hasn't it brought me down there?

 

I could care less about going to the stadiums.  First, I hate sports, so they hold no appeal to me.  Second, the fact that the county was blackmailed by a bunch of spoiled crybaby millionaires who threatened to move the teams out of the city if new stadiums weren't built, kinda secured my attitude that I would never step foot inside either one.  I haven't, and I won't.

 

The Freedom Center is a great thing for the African-American community to have, but it doesn't interest me.  And last I heard, they were having financial difficulties because attendance was nowhere what they projected it would be.

 

The river does nothing for me anymore.  What is the allure?  It's water.  But it's not a beachfront, and it's not a huge lake that you can go sailing on.  All you basically do is watch it flow downstream, then look across the river at Kentucky, and watch barges go by.  So the parks don't do anything for me, either.  I've already been to Yeatman's Cove and Sawyer Point countless times.  It's nice, sure - but not something I feel like driving 22 miles to see more than once or twice a year.

 

Anyway, that's my two cents.  It's a very unpopular opinion on these boards, and I've been blasted for it in the past.  So I'll just shut up and let you guys carry on.

The Freedom Center is a great thing for the African-American community to have, but it doesn't interest me.  And last I heard, they were having financial difficulties because attendance was nowhere what they projected it would be.

 

It isn't meant for the African-American community.  It's meant for the WHOLE community.  One doesn't go to the Holocaust Museum in DC and think "It's great for the Jews but what does it mean to me?"

>Has there been any discussion about the preferred size and height of the proposed buildings? While looking at the conceptual renderings I couldn't help but notice the disparity and differences in height. From the river to Fort Washington Way its (relatively) short/flat/wide

 

Exactly what you are talking about is the plan.  The blocks between Ted Berry Way and Freedom Way will have a six floor height limit and the blocks between Freedom Way and 2nd St. will be 12 floors.  I don't think it's been formally zoned, but The Bengals, of course, retain veto rights to any plans west of Race St. and under the Brown regime will almost certainly veto any higher proposal.   

 

 

 

I don't think the banks necessarily needs an "attraction".

 

Yes it does.  Are people from all over the country going to flock to our riverfront because of it's wonderful array of condos and service retailers?  Or have I been mistaken about what this project is all about, and in actuality this is simply supposed to be a local neighborhood that will do nothing more than fill up some empty riverfront space?  If so, then why bother making it a world-class development?

 

My whole impression from years ago, when the concept was first conceived, was that the "fabulous Banks project" was supposed to be Cincinnati's new front door - the place that was supposed to draw tourists from all over the country.  I don't see how condos and a park are supposed to do that.  Any entertainment idea that is mentioned will be zapped away by Kentucky and put in Ovation.  You know it's true.  If Hard Rock WERE to decide to come to the area, it would be wooed by Newport or Covington, and most likely be built there because Cincinnati would sit on it's hands, wasting time - and Kentucky would *snap* their fingers and work out a deal in no time flat.  If an ESPN Zone were to look at the area, same thing would happen.  Why?  Because Kentucky knows how to get stuff done, and get it done fast.  All Cincinnati knows how to do is dicker around and let opportunities pass it by.  Remember the aquarium?  Originally was proposed for the Banks.  Same with the Hofbrauhaus.  So yes, Cincinnati needs a major attraction at the Banks - something year round.  Something unique that people all over the world could see, and think "Hey, that's in Cincinnati."   

 

B/w the two stadiums, the river (and future river park) and the Freedom Center, there is plenty to bring people down there.

 

So why hasn't it brought me down there?

 

I could care less about going to the stadiums.  First, I hate sports, so they hold no appeal to me.  Second, the fact that the county was blackmailed by a bunch of spoiled crybaby millionaires who threatened to move the teams out of the city if new stadiums weren't built, kinda secured my attitude that I would never step foot inside either one.  I haven't, and I won't.

 

The Freedom Center is a great thing for the African-American community to have, but it doesn't interest me.  And last I heard, they were having financial difficulties because attendance was nowhere what they projected it would be.

 

The river does nothing for me anymore.  What is the allure?  It's water.  But it's not a beachfront, and it's not a huge lake that you can go sailing on.  All you basically do is watch it flow downstream, then look across the river at Kentucky, and watch barges go by.  So the parks don't do anything for me, either.  I've already been to Yeatman's Cove and Sawyer Point countless times.  It's nice, sure - but not something I feel like driving 22 miles to see more than once or twice a year.

 

Anyway, that's my two cents.  It's a very unpopular opinion on these boards, and I've been blasted for it in the past.  So I'll just shut up and let you guys carry on.

 

Couple of points here:

 

1) Lets clarify the term "attraction".  If you are talking about an ESPN Zone or a Hard Rock as an attraction or some other fun restaurants, than yes I agree that they are important factors in creating a successful area and I think they will come if things are done properly.  IMO, though, to create a overall vibrant environment on the banks, its important to get people living there first (more on this later).  But if you are talking about an attraction that will get people across the country visiting Cincy, I think you are dreaming. What are you expecting, a St. Louis Arch?  Its not going to happen. 

 

2) Lets clarify the ultimate goal here.  As I touched on, I personally think the goal should be a vibrant, fun area on the river that gives residents an great option and gives visitors a fun experience and positive feeling of the city (to think people will come JUST to see the banks is asking too much, IMO).  I'm am telling you that a key to creating such vibrant urban areas is having people living in those areas.  Downtown and midtown Manhattan, for example, are dead b/c very few people live there. This goes for many American cities as well b/c people live outside of the city.  Contrast this w/ areas in NY like Upper West and Greenwich Village, which are residential urban areas.  Or how about any number of European cities for that matter.  People are living in those cities.  I realize public transport is an issue in this as well but the lack of a system in Cincy makes it even more critical that people live down there.

 

3) The answer? IMO, the Banks should have buildings, which have 4 or 5 stories. They should be condos/lofts/living spcaes for the most part with the first floor (and 2nd floor possibly as well) open for retailers, restaurants, clubs, cafes etc etc.  This is the European urban model and its very self sustaining. The residents are the ones that give the restaurants, clubs and stores steady business. If people are living there, businesses will come, believe me.  Restarants will open, stores will open.  And when these bshops, restaurants, bars open people from the burbs will come.  Friends  and families of the residents will come and visit and with that, you will create a vibrant urban environment.

 

It should be noted that the stadiums are indeed attractions.  10 times a year, Paul Brown gets  b/w 30 and 40 thousand, and 81 times, GAP gets on average 20,000 people down there.  Now they leave, b/c there is nothing to do but even if a few hundred from each event trickle into the shops and stores, you will get a vibrant atmosphere in various places.  And I dodn't even count the Freedon Center, which will reap the benefits when there are things surrounding it.

I can see both 1012's and lesterlyles' points.

> What are you expecting, a St. Louis Arch?  Its not going to happen.

 

  Wrong, you need to remember that while cincinnati has a relatively small urban core our metropolitan polulation is on par with st louis and other such cities in the country (actually bigger than columbus's for example even though their inner city has more people) so we CAN pull off great things, don't sell us short because we need to learn to work as a region to do them. as for the complaints about kentucky getting things done I see no problem as they are a few hundred feet away from our downtown and their success is our success so I say GO newport/covington!!! (before anyone refutes this please don't answer by saying that we have differences...of course we do, we are in different states but that has legaladvantages as well as disadvantages to our greater cincinnati area development. they're as much a part of this great metro as we are).

 

  lets look at our entire downtown before we decide what should go at the banks as opposed to other areas. first of all their are plenty of surface lots and vacant buildings closer to the downtown residential populations than the offices so things like grocery stores and drug stores should be out of the question for the banks when if there comes a market for them there they will appear. those kind of suggestions are counterproductive for river front property. speaking of riverfront property

    >It's water.  But it's not a beachfront, and it's not a huge lake that you can go  sailing on.

 

    Well true but this weekend at don pablos I saw god knows how many people enjoying their boating excursions and tall stack certainly shows what sort of river culture can exist so its a little more than just water to be fair. a marina is a GREAT idea for the banks. But I totally agree that the stadiums do not maximize the appeal for the region or the country in that piece of real estate. MOST people are not avid enough sports fans to spend all of their money seeing continuous games. For example I hate baseball...lots of people I know do. I also see your point on the museum. I'd love to go as I haven't yet but I've never been to a museum I would want to go to time and time again, including the national holocaust museum for as educational as I feel it was when I was there a few years ago. although I still say a science and industry museum would be a great idea just for the record. but this DOES need to be an attraction on at least a regional level becasue 600-750 residents (as I understand the propsed residence on the banks to be) is not enough to support the level of retail that people want to put their and I certainly don't want some disney world looking shopping center on the river like "Easton" or "the greene" because those are suburban shopping centers that work in suburbia alone and would fail miserably leaving vacants store fronts on our downtown. the best way to approach this project is to make it as diverse as possible. it needs bars for the sports crowds after they leave the game...it needs shopping based on what residential and attractions bring to the riverfront but not shopping as an attraction because I'm sorry that a very suburban thing that urban cores cannot compete with....it would be like florence or mariemont trying to out skyscraper the inner city business district...never gonna happen. It needs something for everybody.

The Freedom Center is a great thing for the African-American community to have, but it doesn't interest me.  And last I heard, they were having financial difficulties because attendance was nowhere what they projected it would be.

 

That is a pretty ignorant comment.  Let me guess, you are a fan of the Bill Cunningham show.  Sounds like a regurgitation of a typical WLW radio host.  The Freedom Center is not meant for the African-American community, it is meant for insensitive people like yourself.  Perhaps you should visit it and learn something.  It is a fantastic museum and Cincinnati should be lucky to have such a world class museum that not only covers slavery and the underground railroad but prejudice in general.

1012 has flipped his whig.

I can see both 1012's and lesterlyles' points.

> What are you expecting, a St. Louis Arch?  Its not going to happen.

 

   Wrong, you need to remember that while cincinnati has a relatively small urban core our metropolitan polulation is on par with st louis and other such cities in the country (actually bigger than columbus's for example even though their inner city has more people) so we CAN pull off great things, don't sell us short because we need to learn to work as a region to do them. as for the complaints about kentucky getting things done I see no problem as they are a few hundred feet away from our downtown and their success is our success so I say GO newport/covington!!! (before anyone refutes this please don't answer by saying that we have differences...of course we do, we are in different states but that has legaladvantages as well as disadvantages to our greater cincinnati area development. they're as much a part of this great metro as we are).

 

   lets look at our entire downtown before we decide what should go at the banks as opposed to other areas. first of all their are plenty of surface lots and vacant buildings closer to the downtown residential populations than the offices so things like grocery stores and drug stores should be out of the question for the banks when if there comes a market for them there they will appear. those kind of suggestions are counterproductive for river front property. speaking of riverfront property

    >It's water.  But it's not a beachfront, and it's not a huge lake that you can go  sailing on.

 

     Well true but this weekend at don pablos I saw god knows how many people enjoying their boating excursions and tall stack certainly shows what sort of river culture can exist so its a little more than just water to be fair. a marina is a GREAT idea for the banks. But I totally agree that the stadiums do not maximize the appeal for the region or the country in that piece of real estate. MOST people are not avid enough sports fans to spend all of their money seeing continuous games. For example I hate baseball...lots of people I know do. I also see your point on the museum. I'd love to go as I haven't yet but I've never been to a museum I would want to go to time and time again, including the national holocaust museum for as educational as I feel it was when I was there a few years ago. although I still say a science and industry museum would be a great idea just for the record. but this DOES need to be an attraction on at least a regional level becasue 600-750 residents (as I understand the propsed residence on the banks to be) is not enough to support the level of retail that people want to put their and I certainly don't want some disney world looking shopping center on the river like "Easton" or "the greene" because those are suburban shopping centers that work in suburbia alone and would fail miserably leaving vacants store fronts on our downtown. the best way to approach this project is to make it as diverse as possible. it needs bars for the sports crowds after they leave the game...it needs shopping based on what residential and attractions bring to the riverfront but not shopping as an attraction because I'm sorry that a very suburban thing that urban cores cannot compete with....it would be like florence or mariemont trying to out skyscraper the inner city business district...never gonna happen. It needs something for everybody.

 

Not intending to sell Cincy short, believe me. I just don't want to see some kind of gimmicky monument/attraction like the Millenium bell.  I just don't think Cincy should go that route. IMO Cincy  has several "attractions" for everybody. They have major sports, a venue for indoor AND outdoor concerts, Music Hall for the Pops, Airnoff for shows, various museums and a  strong concentration of quality  restaurants...and still people don't come down. W/ the lack of transportation and the crime issues (both are not easy fixes) it makes it all themore imperative that you have people living down there.  Some of you guys want to put something great there but I haven't heard great ideas.  Like I said, a lot of the potentail urban attractions Cincy has already...its time to get people down there.

 

As for the marina, that is a good idea but I thought there was some kind of marina that recently opened down there (not quite the banks but pretty close).  I may be mistaken.

Any entertainment idea that is mentioned will be zapped away by Kentucky and put in Ovation.  You know it's true.  If Hard Rock WERE to decide to come to the area, it would be wooed by Newport or Covington, and most likely be built there because Cincinnati would sit on it's hands, wasting time - and Kentucky would *snap* their fingers and work out a deal in no time flat.  If an ESPN Zone were to look at the area, same thing would happen.  Why?  Because Kentucky knows how to get stuff done, and get it done fast.  All Cincinnati knows how to do is dicker around and let opportunities pass it by.  Remember the aquarium?  Originally was proposed for the Banks.  Same with the Hofbrauhaus.

 

Yes, I'm sure that a sporting event entertainment restaurant would want to be across the river from their main drawing points.  As for the other entertainment venues that went to Nky...it was due to timelines/incentives.  But I guess Cincinnati should have done the same thing as Nky and gave in to the "crybaby millionaires".  This way Cincinnati could have kept these projects on the Ohio side.......oh wait you condemned that kind of behavior with your next comment:

 

I could care less about going to the stadiums.  First, I hate sports, so they hold no appeal to me.  Second, the fact that the county was blackmailed by a bunch of spoiled crybaby millionaires who threatened to move the teams out of the city if new stadiums weren't built, kinda secured my attitude that I would never step foot inside either one.  I haven't, and I won't.

 

Cincinnati just can't win with you....and many others for that matter.  When Cincy doesn't give in to developers, they are quote: dragging their feet, and losing out to Nky....again.  But when Cincy does offer some incentives and keep/attract new businesses/enterprises they are quote: throwing money away at stupid entertainment projects that only some people use.

 

Well to be quite honest......I AM AWFULLY DAMN TIRED OF THIS KIND OF ATTITUDE AND COMMENTARY FROM CINCINNATIANS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  It seems as though no matter what Cincinnati does....that it is wrong!  This is BS, should Cincy have gotten the aquarium and then experienced the same struggles it is having at NOTL...it would have been: "Cincinnati needs to bail out its struggling aquarium, I mean its great for fish lovers and families, but I don't really care about it...it was a waste to begin with".

 

I could go on, but I will stop here....I need to lower my blood pressure, these kinds of things get me REALLY ticked off!!!!!!!  I'm tired of hearing the hypocritical comments out of every Cincinnatian who thinks that they are just being realistic.

Well put UncleRando.

The Freedom Center is a great thing for the African-American community to have, but it doesn't interest me.  And last I heard, they were having financial difficulties because attendance was nowhere what they projected it would be.

 

 

That is a pretty ignorant comment.  Let me guess, you are a fan of the Bill Cunningham show.  Sounds like a regurgitation of a typical WLW radio host.  The Freedom Center is not meant for the African-American community, it is meant for insensitive people like yourself.  Perhaps you should visit it and learn something.  It is a fantastic museum and Cincinnati should be lucky to have such a world class museum that not only covers slavery and the underground railroad but prejudice in general.

 

 

Dude this shits getting on my nerves. I have to defend 1012.

Monte. Please, please, please. You are not without sin, so stop throwing stones. Stop acting like your perfect.

Every time someone mentions something that could be pulled across the race line, you are very quick to call people ignorant, insensitive, bigots, and racists.

All 1012 said was that the Freedom Center does not interest him, and now all of a sudden he's ignorant and insensitive. It obviously doesn't interest a lot of the African-Americans in this city either. I've spoken to at least 50 African-Americans at work or elsewhere about the Freedom Center and NOT ONE has been there and most said they don't plan to anytime soon. I guess there ignorant and insensitive too right?

Being Politically Correct is a trend or a fad. It is not reality. It forces people to be fake to themselves and everyone around them. It will die out in time. A couple of generations from now they will study this Era in history and learn how instead of helping this country it damn near destroyed it. They'll learn how it prevented law enforcement from doing their jobs correctly for fear of lawsuits and riots, allowing violent crimes to rise to all time highs. They'll learn how being Politically Correct allowed another 9/11 to happen.

 

So forgive me or 1012 or anyone else who just so happens to make a comment that you consider to be along racial lines. I can't speak for them, but I am not a racist, but I refuse to be Politically Correct. I tell it like it is.

Uh, it's one of those "read between the line" logicistic equations one must learn.  Case in point:

 

The Freedom Center is a great thing for the African-American community to have, but it doesn't interest me.  And last I heard, they were having financial difficulties because attendance was nowhere what they projected it would be.

 

Let's say this again

 

The Freedom Center is a great thing for them, but it doesn't interest me.

 

Let's try this again.

 

The Reds are a great thing for white people, but it doesn't interest me.

 

Difference?

Lets all get along.  The point is, there is plenty down there to get all kinds of poeple down there. Now lets get residents down there full tiem as well and the stores/restautants/bars will come.

Hey ColDayMan, how about "the Reds are a great thing for baseball fans, but they don't interest me"  Oh, that must be an anti-baseballite comment.

 

Or better yet, what about the Skirball Museum (Jewish Museum with a branch in Cincinnati).  If say a specific African American isn't interested in this museum but thinks its great for the Jewish community, does that make this hypothetical specific African American an anti-semite?  or is he only an anti-semite if he voices this opinion.  I think the general consesus is that to be politically correct, you better not ever make any comment about any other religions, races, or sexes.

 

Cincinnati plans riverfront project

Thursday, September 21, 2006

Associated Press

Cincinnati - Finally, maybe, something other than parking lots will fill the four-block gap between Paul Brown Stadium and Great American Ball Park.

 

A selection committee has chosen an Atlanta-based developer to take charge of bringing restaurants, condos, shops, offices and entertainment to the riverfront area known as the Banks.

 

A link to the full story text is unavailable, but was developed by

http://www.ap.org/

Good article. As an outsider, it really is funny reading this preceived battle b/w Cincy and NKY.  Absurd is actually a better word. The fact that Ovation is largely resendential will only help downtown Cincy.  Its not like people won't be allowed to cross the river. With all the residences being built both there and on the Cincy side, things look very positive. And I am sure a water taxi serice will be established (has it been already?) making it a 5 minute trip. 

Any entertainment idea that is mentioned will be zapped away by Kentucky and put in Ovation.  You know it's true.  If Hard Rock WERE to decide to come to the area, it would be wooed by Newport or Covington, and most likely be built there because Cincinnati would sit on it's hands, wasting time - and Kentucky would *snap* their fingers and work out a deal in no time flat.  If an ESPN Zone were to look at the area, same thing would happen.  Why?  Because Kentucky knows how to get stuff done, and get it done fast.  All Cincinnati knows how to do is dicker around and let opportunities pass it by.  Remember the aquarium?  Originally was proposed for the Banks.  Same with the Hofbrauhaus.

 

Yes, I'm sure that a sporting event entertainment restaurant would want to be across the river from their main drawing points.  As for the other entertainment venues that went to Nky...it was due to timelines/incentives.  But I guess Cincinnati should have done the same thing as Nky and gave in to the "crybaby millionaires".  This way Cincinnati could have kept these projects on the Ohio side.......oh wait you condemned that kind of behavior with your next comment:

 

I could care less about going to the stadiums.  First, I hate sports, so they hold no appeal to me.  Second, the fact that the county was blackmailed by a bunch of spoiled crybaby millionaires who threatened to move the teams out of the city if new stadiums weren't built, kinda secured my attitude that I would never step foot inside either one.  I haven't, and I won't.

 

Cincinnati just can't win with you....and many others for that matter.  When Cincy doesn't give in to developers, they are quote: dragging their feet, and losing out to Nky....again.  But when Cincy does offer some incentives and keep/attract new businesses/enterprises they are quote: throwing money away at stupid entertainment projects that only some people use.

 

Well to be quite honest......I AM AWFULLY DAMN TIRED OF THIS KIND OF ATTITUDE AND COMMENTARY FROM CINCINNATIANS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  It seems as though no matter what Cincinnati does....that it is wrong!  This is BS, should Cincy have gotten the aquarium and then experienced the same struggles it is having at NOTL...it would have been: "Cincinnati needs to bail out its struggling aquarium, I mean its great for fish lovers and families, but I don't really care about it...it was a waste to begin with".

 

I could go on, but I will stop here....I need to lower my blood pressure, these kinds of things get me REALLY ticked off!!!!!!!  I'm tired of hearing the hypocritical comments out of every Cincinnatian who thinks that they are just being realistic.

 

UncleRando,

You are to young to get this worked up!!! I think Cincy has a very good chance of quieting the nay Sayers over the next 5 to 6 years. The Banks is finally on the right track, Fountain Square is nearing completion and the residential base is growing downtown. These three things have a very good chance of turning downtown into a MAJOR success story. The only thing that may slowdown this is the overall downturn in the US economy. I can't wait to take friends and family members to the new downtown Cincy.

 

^Thx for the calming words :-D

To get back to the Freedom Center comments earlier, I would encourage everyone to attend and in addition to considering the ramifications of American slavery to also look into the Freedom Center's role in promoting freedom causes across the globe.  They've done interesting work to promote the causes of freedom.  Their limitation is that they've done a relatively poor job of promoting other freedom causes to the community.  To compare, my key takeaway from the struggles of oppression that the Jewish community has had to face for centuries has been to consider modern extremism, religious and ethnic bigotry and what it means to be a just, equitable, human being.  Similar lessons will be gained from anyone who opens their heart and embraces what the Freedom Center truly stands for.

Hey ColDayMan, how about "the Reds are a great thing for baseball fans, but they don't interest me"  Oh, that must be an anti-baseballite comment.

 

Or better yet, what about the Skirball Museum (Jewish Museum with a branch in Cincinnati).  If say a specific African American isn't interested in this museum but thinks its great for the Jewish community, does that make this hypothetical specific African American an anti-semite?  or is he only an anti-semite if he voices this opinion.  I think the general consesus is that to be politically correct, you better not ever make any comment about any other religions, races, or sexes.

 

 

A).  The Freedom Museum isn't an African-American museum.  That's the big difference people aren't getting.  It has many African-American historical sections yet also deals with the plight of Asian Americans, the Native American past, and current global situations.  Now, had it say "the African-American Museum of Cincinnati," then sure, no beef with that.  But because it's the "Underground Railroad Museum," it's suddenly "African-American."  To me, just silly (as many "white" Abolitionists are also remembered). 

 

B). It's about tone.  When somebody says "It's not my thing but it's great for them," it's a bit different than saying "I think the Jewish Museum is wonderful for all Jews yet my historical preference is more towards the Asian Museum."  See a difference?

 

This isn't about PC crap (as I'm one of the most non-PC people on this forum) but simple tone and reading between the lines.

Well put - I would also encourage people to go.  Everyone could learn from the Freedom Center's message as well as the very important history lesson it provides.

 

To get back to the Freedom Center comments earlier, I would encourage everyone to attend and in addition to considering the ramifications of American slavery to also look into the Freedom Center's role in promoting freedom causes across the globe.  They've done interesting work to promote the causes of freedom.  Their limitation is that they've done a relatively poor job of promoting other freedom causes to the community.  To compare, my key takeaway from the struggles of oppression that the Jewish community has had to face for centuries has been to consider modern extremism, religious and ethnic bigotry and what it means to be a just, equitable, human being.  Similar lessons will be gained from anyone who opens their heart and embraces what the Freedom Center truly stands for.

^It is a great museum, it is very well run, and is a top notch experience...IMO.  I would recommend that everyone should check it out at least once.

Very well ran? Don't they have like a multi-million dollar deficit causing them to operate basically on credit?

 

Is there a finalized rendering of The Banks? Maybe these developers need to be reminded that Cinci isn't sprawled like ATL and that space should be used as efficiently as possible. I want to see atleast 15 story buildings.