Originally there were going to be a handful of town homes facing the Schmidlapp event lawn.  I think it's going to be important to sell off at least a few 20-foot wide lots for single-family homes because the whole feel of the place right now is too super-blocky.  Hamiton County could sell off what remains of the "Yard House" block into about 26 20x80 lots.  If they get $250k for each lot that's $6.5 million they can put back into future Banks infrastructure.   

 

 

The Banks' website shows some nondescript space where the townhomes were originally going to be located. Perhaps it will be the hotel's fitness center or conference rooms.

I've seen no announcement but BurgerFi appears to be open.

They have begun placing the exterior cladding on the AC hotel at the banks. I was really hoping this would stand out as a more contemporary and different material from it's neighbors, like something you would see in LA with a bit more gloss to it. It appears to be stone, but it kind of just looks like concrete so far.

Looks like they found a use for those old drop ceiling tiles.

I know the leasing agents at The Banks are trying to avoid chains (i.e., rejecting Starbucks), but they should just give in an add a Cheesecake Factory. It would kill! I'd even stop by on occasion!

 

They rejected Starbucks? I'm not a fan, but it seems like that would be a good move to have someone like them there.

^Apparently it violated the lease agreement from Taste of Belgium or something (I could be making this up, but I believe I heard it)? Not totally sure. I heard it was because ToB had some exclusivity agreement regarding coffee. That makes no sense in my mind, because I wouldn't think of ToB as a place to pick up coffee to go, but whatever.

They have begun placing the exterior cladding on the AC hotel at the banks. I was really hoping this would stand out as a more contemporary and different material from it's neighbors, like something you would see in LA with a bit more gloss to it. It appears to be stone, but it kind of just looks like concrete so far.

 

Its Exterior Porcelain Tile. At least it has some color, originally was intended to be white. If they would have left it white we could have called it the "White Castle Hotel" especially with all the notches or battlements along the roof line...

^Apparently it violated the lease agreement from Taste of Belgium or something (I could be making this up, but I believe I heard it)? Not totally sure. I heard it was because ToB had some exclusivity agreement regarding coffee. That makes no sense in my mind, because I wouldn't think of ToB as a place to pick up coffee to go, but whatever.

 

I think you have it backwards. Their leasing agents declined to sign a Starbucks because they wanted to bring in a local place that would do coffee and breakfast, and they ended up getting ToB.

^That's pretty short-sighted IMO. They could both co-exist at The Banks.

My hunch is that Pies & Pints got their space for cheap since there is nothing else over there. 

^Apparently it violated the lease agreement from Taste of Belgium or something (I could be making this up, but I believe I heard it)? Not totally sure. I heard it was because ToB had some exclusivity agreement regarding coffee. That makes no sense in my mind, because I wouldn't think of ToB as a place to pick up coffee to go, but whatever.

 

They even have wifi, you can use it as a cafe (which I do when I'm in town and working remotely).

I think you have it backwards. Their leasing agents declined to sign a Starbucks because they wanted to bring in a local place that would do coffee and breakfast, and they ended up getting ToB.

 

This makes way more sense. Starbucks often requires terms that prevent coffee-type establishments elsewhere in a development. ToB's counter where it sells to-go coffee and pastries would certainly be disallowed.

 

Following is a screenshot from the official State of Ohio web site today, 3-23-2017.

 

 

This photo is about 15 years old, as Riverfront Stadium was torn down in 2002.

EXCLUSIVE: Restaurant pulls out of the Banks

 

A restaurant that was planning on opening at the Banks has pulled out of the development.

Tiger Dumpling, which announced in June 2016 that it was relocating from Clifton Heights to space at the Banks formerly occupied by WG Kitchen + Bar, is no longer going into the development.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/03/27/exclusive-restaurant-pulls-out-of-the-banks.html

 

I didn't expect them to be successful long term anyway. 

They were also being sued by former employees.

St. Louis..."taking cues from Cincinnati":

 

http://fox2now.com/2017/05/08/taking-cues-from-cincinnati-on-st-louis-riverfront-redevelopment/

^That's actually kind of great to hear and exactly how successful regionalism is supposed to start, in theory anyway. I wish more of Ohio cities' leaders were willing to borrow and steal ideas from other cities for import back here.

Yesterday I went to the new convenience store where Orange Leaf use to be. It is actually really nice with a good selection of snacks, beverages, alcohol (wine and beer) and even lunch options.  They have pizza, sandwich and even sushi that they get in fresh every weekday.  I was really impressed with it.  The owner said they've gotten a lot of business from the people who live there and he's hoping to get more people to come over from GE.  The hotel will likely help too once it's open.  They really need to get another office building down there for more weekday afternoon traffic.  I've said it before but at this point they should just build the 180 Walnut and get smaller tenants to take space.  If they keep waiting to find one tenant it will likely be a lot longer. 

with all the talk of the fcc stadium - could they just do something like this? i mean, i know you'd have to demo the garage you just built - but... it seems to work, and then you've got all your stadiums in one spot and all the infrastructure right there.

^that garage was $10 million bucks if I recall correctly

 

EDIT: it will be $37 million for three city blocks, so I don't know what portion the completed work represents. http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2015/12/03/banks-seeks-37m-taxpayers/76721276/

^It was $29 million, which included state and JobsOhio funds. Demolition is a non-starter, but it is meant to support development.

 

 

people tear stuff down all the time - i give you that it would seem like a huge waste of money, given that it was literally just spent - but its not that tremendously much money in the grand scheme of things, and it is just a parking structure. right next door riverfront stadium cost a bunch of money when it was built (45m) and we tore it down to build something else.

^We already have groups rallying to block any taxpayer funding for new stadiums; to tear down a brand-new taxpayer subsidized parking garage for a stadium is tone deaf.

 

Furthermore, it is likely financed with the parking revenues paying off some amount of the construction bonds in addition to TIF revenues. Tearing down the garage would mean any outstanding debt would have to be paid by someone.

 

If you wanted to put a stadium here, why not just build on top?

How about we don't use more prime real estate for a stadium which is used only a handful of times a year? If anything we should have pushed for more of the riverfront to be mixed us and have found a way to have one or both of the stadiums elsewhere.

 

This is a terrible location for another stadium. My personal belief is that it's ridiculous that another stadium is even going to be built in the first place, but if it is it better well not be on the riverfront on land that needs to be mixed use.

In my perfect world, we would build a new stadium and arena near Union terminal and cap I-75 between Liberty and Gest.

Carter plans to start $85 million 3rd phase of the Banks in early 2018

 

Phase 3 is being designed with about 20,000 square feet of street-level retail, four floors of parking dedicated to residents, and topped with 300 apartments. He said the design would be similar to Radius, but a little bit taller because of the additional levels of parking.

 

“This will be as good or better than any we’ve done in terms of quality,” Peterson told me.

 

(Perfect time to subscribe to the Business Courier and support local journalism!)

Hundreds of parking spots on top of thousands of parking spots.  Hasn't anybody ever thought about doing things a different way?  https://cincinnatiideas.com/the-banks-phase-3/

Carter plans to start $85 million 3rd phase of the Banks in early 2018

 

Phase 3 is being designed with about 20,000 square feet of street-level retail, four floors of parking dedicated to residents, and topped with 300 apartments. He said the design would be similar to Radius, but a little bit taller because of the additional levels of parking.

 

“This will be as good or better than any we’ve done in terms of quality,” Peterson told me.

 

(Perfect time to subscribe to the Business Courier and support local journalism!)

 

So does this cover up the last remaining open space aka Lot D?

I like the tacit admission of the low quality of design/construction of the previous phases...but that doesn't do anything to reassure me that Phase 3 will actually be significantly better. They say Phase 3 will be "as good or better"... which leave me thinking that Phase 3 will just be a repeat of the quality of the Radius. Ugh... what a missed opportunity if we end up with another fat, squat megablock apartment complex. That site deserves something more architecturally inspired (a pair of towers would be nice).

Carter plans to start $85 million 3rd phase of the Banks in early 2018

 

Phase 3 is being designed with about 20,000 square feet of street-level retail, four floors of parking dedicated to residents, and topped with 300 apartments. He said the design would be similar to Radius, but a little bit taller because of the additional levels of parking.

 

“This will be as good or better than any we’ve done in terms of quality,” Peterson told me.

 

(Perfect time to subscribe to the Business Courier and support local journalism!)

 

So does this cover up the last remaining open space aka Lot D?

 

Not quite. There is still empty land (no garage built yet) to the west of Race St between Elm St.

I like the tacit admission of the low quality of design/construction of the previous phases...but that doesn't do anything to reassure me that Phase 3 will actually be significantly better. They say Phase 3 will be "as good or better"... which leave me thinking that Phase 3 will just be a repeat of the quality of the Radius. Ugh... what a missed opportunity if we end up with another fat, squat megablock apartment complex. That site deserves something more architecturally inspired (a pair of towers would be nice).

 

Yes agreed, at least break it up a little bit. Two 150-200 unit buildings with a pedestrian only walkway down the middle this would allow for additional outdoor space for the retail tenants as well.

Hundreds of parking spots on top of thousands of parking spots.  Hasn't anybody ever thought about doing things a different way?  https://cincinnatiideas.com/the-banks-phase-3/

 

I wonder if the county, with its recent change in leadership, would be more open to leasing some of the spaces in the massive underground garage to the residents of the apartments/condos above. Previously they refused to do so, resulting in the terrible situation of us have to build additional above-ground garages on top of a massive underground garage.

They have development rights to build 1,800 units over the entire project. So far they have constructed just under 600. This would bring them to about 900 or half of their entitlements to residential. They also have rights to build one more hotel and a few more office buildings in the future phases. However, after this phase there are only two blocks left for development. (Not counting the weird lot between 2nd, Elm and Paul Brown Stadium)

 

So unless they build two blocks with 900 more residential units and then some, we are going to get a built out project that does not come close to the residential density needed to help sustain the amount of retail at the Banks.

Hundreds of parking spots on top of thousands of parking spots.  Hasn't anybody ever thought about doing things a different way?  https://cincinnatiideas.com/the-banks-phase-3/

 

I wonder if the county, with its recent change in leadership, would be more open to leasing some of the spaces in the massive underground garage to the residents of the apartments/condos above. Previously they refused to do so, resulting in the terrible situation of us have to build additional above-ground garages on top of a massive underground garage.

 

The developer should construct the future phases of above level garages to be convertible into future residential apartments as part of approval.

 

While I could see the Riverfront parking garage become a massive complex for autonomous vehicles in the future, the garages for the private development would become useless.

They have development rights to build 1,800 units over the entire project. So far they have constructed just under 600. This would bring them to about 900 or half of their entitlements to residential. They also have rights to build one more hotel and a few more office buildings in the future phases. However, after this phase there are only two blocks left for development. (Not counting the weird lot between 2nd, Elm and Paul Brown Stadium)

 

So unless they build two blocks with 900 more residential units and then some, we are going to get a built out project that does not come close to the residential density needed to help sustain the amount of retail at the Banks.

 

So they have rights for another hotel, at least one more office building (in addition to the 180 Walnut), and more than double the residential with only one block left....how would this even be possible? Originally were all the residential buildings supposed to be 2x their current height?

No. The listed as of right developments isn't a sum total. They purposefully allowed more of each item so that the overall development could fluctuate program to allow whatever component was seeing the most demand. It wasn't as if there was originally a plan with 1,800 residential units, three office towers, and two hotels. It was just that they didn't want to pigeon hole themselves into a position where, say, office space was in extreme demand but the plan only allowed one building and therefore they couldn't build to suit demand at the site.

However, after this phase there are only two blocks left for development. (Not counting the weird lot between 2nd, Elm and Paul Brown Stadium)

 

Not sure how you are counting "blocks", but here is where there's space left to build, with the approximate available footprints listed:

-3rd and Walnut: 25,000 sq ft

-Restaurant next to Freedom center: 18,000 sq ft

-Phase 3: 105,000 sq ft

-Elm/Freedom/Race/Mehring: 95,000 sq ft

-south of Phase 3: 90,000 sq ft (I think this is planned as park space... which seems like a waste since Smale is right across the street. I'd much rather see something high density built here)

-3rd/Elm/Freedom/Race: 97,000 sq ft

-3rd/Pete Rose/Elm: 55,000 sq ft

 

-south of Phase 3: 90,000 sq ft (I think this is planned as park space... which seems like a waste since Smale is right across the street. I'd much rather see something high density built here)

 

You are correct, this land is part of Smale Park, not part of The Banks.

So unless they build two blocks with 900 more residential units and then some, we are going to get a built out project that does not come close to the residential density needed to help sustain the amount of retail at the Banks.

 

Do Carter's rights expire at some point?  If getting as many people to live down there as possible is the goal, then we should be requiring affordable housing. 

Affordable housing should not be going into a place like the banks. 

Why? Affordable housing gets mixed into these types of developments all over the place. Why would that be a problem?

Affordable housing isn't the same as CMHA public housing (of which, approximately half in Cincinnati is simply retirement home apartments for people with no money) or Section 8.  About five years ago some west siders called for Section 8 to be "built" on the Banks.  Those people didn't understand the Section 8 program -- landlords start accepting Section 8 when they can't get market rate in an area.  So it would be foolish for a developer to build apartments that require $1500 to break even to then start accepting Section 8 vouchers that pay $750/mo.

No. The listed as of right developments isn't a sum total. They purposefully allowed more of each item so that the overall development could fluctuate program to allow whatever component was seeing the most demand. It wasn't as if there was originally a plan with 1,800 residential units, three office towers, and two hotels. It was just that they didn't want to pigeon hole themselves into a position where, say, office space was in extreme demand but the plan only allowed one building and therefore they couldn't build to suit demand at the site.

I know that the rights are not absolute but my complaint is that they should maximize the amount of residential opportunity they have been given. We are vastly under-building residential in the core and it's disappointing that Carter won't build enough to capture that demand.

However, after this phase there are only two blocks left for development. (Not counting the weird lot between 2nd, Elm and Paul Brown Stadium)

 

Not sure how you are counting "blocks", but here is where there's space left to build, with the approximate available footprints listed:

-3rd and Walnut: 25,000 sq ft

-Restaurant next to Freedom center: 18,000 sq ft

-Phase 3: 105,000 sq ft

-Elm/Freedom/Race/Mehring: 95,000 sq ft

-south of Phase 3: 90,000 sq ft (I think this is planned as park space... which seems like a waste since Smale is right across the street. I'd much rather see something high density built here)

-3rd/Elm/Freedom/Race: 97,000 sq ft

-3rd/Pete Rose/Elm: 55,000 sq ft

 

I'm not counting the undeveloped parts of Phase I and II or the unbuilt garage phase south of the Phase III pad since it will be part of the park. If you look at the master plan rendering there are only two blocks left which are west of Race north and south of Freedom Way. The "weird" block could be developed but for now seems to be some sort of building with an enclosed staircase or escalator.

 

So unless they build two blocks with 900 more residential units and then some, we are going to get a built out project that does not come close to the residential density needed to help sustain the amount of retail at the Banks.

 

Do Carter's rights expire at some point?  If getting as many people to live down there as possible is the goal, then we should be requiring affordable housing.

 

They are supposed to expire next year but I think they have options to extend the development agreement if they so choose to.

The thing is that it's not possible with bulk limitations (height primarily) to build 1,800 units without the ENTIRE thing being residential. Which is essentially what that number represented. 6 blocks with 300 units each maximizing floor plates and heights based on development agreements. Getting to that number would be at the detriment of office and hotel space. Both of which are extremely important for a mixed use neighborhood. Office space and hotels both have a higher density of users and a greater amount of users that will populate the retail space during the day and during weekdays. Without them you've built a bedroom community on the water. Which would be a terrible plan.

 

Edit: I was just curious what the population density will be when fully built out. The Banks is 18 acres, or 0.028125 square miles. The full build out is expected to be around 1,200 units. At 1.4 people/unit (I think that's around the average) that's around 60,000 people per square mile. That's a great level of density for the riverfront.

Did they ever end up getting the funding to do the dock?  I think that would be hugely popular and a great addition.  Also I know they talked about it long term but adding something like the serpentine wall to the riverbank west of the bridge would be a great upgrade.  Right now when the river is low there's just a bunch of rocks and washed up crap on the riverbank that doesn't look great. 

The thing is that it's not possible with bulk limitations (height primarily) to build 1,800 units without the ENTIRE thing being residential. Which is essentially what that number represented. 6 blocks with 300 units each maximizing floor plates and heights based on development agreements. Getting to that number would be at the detriment of office and hotel space. Both of which are extremely important for a mixed use neighborhood. Office space and hotels both have a higher density of users and a greater amount of users that will populate the retail space during the day and during weekdays. Without them you've built a bedroom community on the water. Which would be a terrible plan.

 

Edit: I was just curious what the population density will be when fully built out. The Banks is 18 acres, or 0.028125 square miles. The full build out is expected to be around 1,200 units. At 1.4 people/unit (I think that's around the average) that's around 60,000 people per square mile. That's a great level of density for the riverfront.

 

I said nothing of sacrificing the office or the hotel for residential. I agree that would be a huge mistake. I am arguing that the next two phases of residential attempt to maximize their height to what is allowed through zoning/development rights.

 

There were two levels of height restrictions, those granted through zoning through entitlements and limitations imposed by the Bengals. The Bengals limitation was waived to allow Phase II to move forward. Therefore future phases of residential could potentially go to 9 or even 12 stories. If two out of the three future phase blocks went for 450 units instead of 300 that would put the total residential for the neighborhood at 1,500 or at about 83% of what they are allowed to build (as opposed to 66% as currently projected.)

 

Didn't the Bengals wave their height limitation for just the GE building?  Or was it for all future buildings at the banks? 

Did they ever end up getting the funding to do the dock?  I think that would be hugely popular and a great addition.  Also I know they talked about it long term but adding something like the serpentine wall to the riverbank west of the bridge would be a great upgrade.  Right now when the river is low there's just a bunch of rocks and washed up crap on the riverbank that doesn't look great.

 

In terms of funding, they have a $15m matching grant from the federal government, but I'm not sure if they have the local matching dollars raised y et.  http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2016/12/13/bill-authorizes-millions-for-smale-park.html