The bicycle center appears to have not opened for the season.  I biked by last night and noticed that the space had been gutted and that there were no bikes to be seen. 

 

The website is still active and says "see you in the spring": http://cincinnatibikecenter.com/

The Banks committee held their first public meeting in over two years this morning. It was revealed that Carter will not be the developer for the remaining phases of The Banks. They also stated that they are looking for funding for at least one of the Fort Washington Way caps which they view as "necessary" to link Downtown to The Banks.

The bicycle center appears to have not opened for the season.  I biked by last night and noticed that the space had been gutted and that there were no bikes to be seen. 

 

The website is still active and says "see you in the spring": http://cincinnatibikecenter.com/

 

I imagine Red Bike really killed that business

Lead developer on Hamilton County's riverfront is off the project after a decade

 

The lead developer in charge of transforming Cincinnati’s riverfront is off the project.

 

The announcement comes after the developer missed a key deadline on the project and, at one point, owed the county a $500,000 penalty fee, according to county officials and documents.

 

It had been more than a year since Carter, the developer in charge of luring new businesses, retail and residential units to The Banks, was supposed to break ground on the third phase of the project.

The Banks committee held their first public meeting in over two years this morning. It was revealed that Carter will not be the developer for the remaining phases of The Banks. They also stated that they are looking for funding for at least one of the Fort Washington Way caps which they view as "necessary" to link Downtown to The Banks.

 

Best news in awhile. Carter was using Preston Partnership out of Atlanta, and they were creating the ugliest ho hum designs for center stage of the city. The Radius at the banks just looks like garbage, hoping future developments surround and block it out of sight. Real question is who would people like to see be the developer? On an aesthetic design going forward someone like Steiner could create quality looking buildings down there.

 

Great to hear about the caps as well.

So which Cranley donor has donated the most?  That's who is going to get this. 

Great news.  Mediocrity was obvious from the get-go with Carter.  I just can't believe it's taken this long.

So which Cranley donor has donated the most?  That's who is going to get this.

I thought the County was much more involved in this, at least with decision making. They have been billed over 20 Million in legal fees (years ago) on the Banks. What is Phase 3 BTW?

Phase 3 is/was the block immediately south of the Radius/GE block. It's possible that with a new master developer coming in, the whole project could be re-envisioned. It would actually be kind of cool if the priorities were changed to focus on the Phase 1A office tower and the FWW caps next, instead of the blocks by Paul Brown Stadium.

Phase 3 is/was the block immediately south of the Radius/GE block. It's possible that with a new master developer coming in, the whole project could be re-envisioned. It would actually be kind of cool if the priorities were changed to focus on the Phase 1A office tower and the FWW caps next, instead of the blocks by Paul Brown Stadium.

Thanks.

The office building is going to be difficult. There is some decent vacancy holes in the CBD now, including 2 85,000 RSF subleases being marketed. Competitors like Baldwin is filled up, and the Grand went apartment. Keystone off of Dana is marketing another building, you have the 2 Oakley Station buildings, Baldwin 500 is vacant, Uptown Gateway MLK/71 is 3 proposed 150,000 RSF Class A buildings, 3046 Stanton is marketing an 80,000 RSF Class A building. Midtown office space does compete with the CBD/Banks. There are a few more midtown planned buildings I did not mention.

 

A new Class A office building midtown, CBD/Banks you are looking at $30.00 Full Service per RSF, vs. low 20's Class A CBD.

Does not include parking.

Look for the PromoWest Pavillion idea to return from the grave.

The former county administrator, Christian Sigman, was essentially fired for criticizing Carter.

 

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2015/04/30/county-official-time-change-banks-developer/26656049/

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2015/05/06/county-commissioners-strip-top-official-of.html

I just saw somebody on Facebook float the idea that 3CDC could take over as the master developer of The Banks. I think it's an interesting idea but 3CDC may be pretty tied up with their existing projects, especially with the rumors that they will soon be focusing on redeveloping Court Street. I do think that 3CDC could do a good job of leasing retail spaces and bringing in concepts that are a little more interesting than the sports bars and Darden style restaurants we have seen down there so far.

I just saw somebody on Facebook float the idea that 3CDC could take over as the master developer of The Banks. I think it's an interesting idea but 3CDC may be pretty tied up with their existing projects, especially with the rumors that they will soon be focusing on redeveloping Court Street. I do think that 3CDC could do a good job of leasing retail spaces and bringing in concepts that are a little more interesting than the sports bars and Darden style restaurants we have seen down there so far.

 

Some others on here would probably like to burn me at the stake but...I would like to see Steiner Development take over the banks. They tend to spend more on designs, and even though there developments look kitschy at times they tend to look better ten and fifteen years down the road. Then what Carter dropped on us with the Radius development at the Banks.

Has Steiner ever done anything in the CBD of a large city, or anything over six stories?

Phase 3 can be a soccer stadium. We have 3 down there already, why not add one more, lol

EXCLUSIVE: Carter looking to sell the Banks office site

Aug 11, 2017, 12:48pm EDT

Tom Demeropolis

Senior Staff Reporter

Cincinnati Business Courier

 

 

Carter, the former master developer of the Banks in downtown Cincinnati, is looking to sell its remaining development site at the 18-acre mixed-use project.

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/08/11/exclusive-carter-looking-to-sell-the-banks-office.html

I'm glad Carter is selling that site. They have sat on it so long, it's clear they didn't have the vision/connections to get something done there.

 

I'm also glad to hear that the location is not restricted to be office, in case a buyer wants to use the site for something else. But apparently the site only has rights to use the existing parking if it remains exclusively office.

If a buyer decides to develop an office building at the site, it would retain reserved and unreserved parking in the garage underneath. However, if a buyer decided to use the site for a different use, the rights to the spaces would not carry over and they would need to create their own parking in the development.

 

Who is setting the absurd rules around parking at The Banks? Is that the County? I hope that once Carter is replaced as the Master Developer, somebody new comes in and does a better job of managing the massive underground parking.

Quite the write-up from WCPO:

 

After a decade, taxpayers have invested $135M in The Banks. Did we get the return we were promised?

 

A decade ago, when city and county officials inked a development deal to transform Cincinnati’s riverfront, they promised to spend $106 million on the project.

 

While taxpayers have upheld their end of the bargain, spending $135 million to construct The Banks over the last 10 years, private investment has been slow to catch up.

 

There’s an old newspaper clipping, published the day after The Banks deal was finalized, that hangs in Hamilton County Commission President Todd Portune’s office.

 

“Now, it’s developers’ turn to raise $600M to $800M share,” the bold headline reads.

 

But 10 years and two phases later, that private investment – from new offices to apartments — has totaled just $280 million so far.

 

There's still work to be done.

 

Cont

I think that the slow pace of developing The Banks has a lot to do with the amount of development that has happened in OTR. When the original master plan for The Banks was put together, I don't think anyone could have imagined what OTR was going to become.

 

This hit me earlier today when I saw an article about the new office building at 15th & Vine. The article mentioned that 3CDC is building it on spec with no tenants lined up yet. And yet nothing has happened with the proposed office building at The Banks. If you are a small company that needs 1 or 2 floors in a new office building, where would you rather be located, The Banks or 15th & Vine? It depends largely on who your employees are. If they're young people who prefer walking to local restaurants for lunch or local bars for a happy hour, 15th & Vine wins by far. If they simply prefer convenient parking, The Banks may win... but in that case, why not choose Linden Pointe or Rookwood Exchange?

^ I think it depends on the client. If you have a large creative client you definitely go to OTR. See Empower as a perfect example. If you are a traditional fortune 500 or law firm, the Banks is the obvious choice for these companies. I think downtown is getting product that can cater to all types of businesses now.

 

I have a friend whose worked for a small venture fund in town whose company was taken over by a west coast company. They needed to find new offices and the parent company said they did not want them to get a space in one of the office towers downtown because it was boring and not their culture. They could not find space in OTR so they went to Hyde Park.

15th & Vine is 45,000sf

180 Walnut is planned for 235,000sf

 

I don't think you can even try to compare the two buildings.  There is probably very little overlap for interested tenants.  It wouldn't surprise me if 15th & Vine has more total tenants than 180 Walnut will someday. 

 

There are a few law firms moving to and/or opening up satellite offices in OTR.

 

I think this phenomena isn't unique to Cincinnati. In a lot of cities that are revitalizing, the growth isn't centered in downtown proper, it's centered in nearby dense neighborhoods that are more human scaled, have more historic architecture, more local businesses, etc.

 

None of this is to say that The Banks wasn't a good idea or won't eventually get built out. I just think that the explosion of OTR has sucked away many of the residents and businesses that might've otherwise opened at The Banks. I think it would be a good idea for them to create a new master plan with this in mind, and maybe focus more on getting the Phase 1A tower and one or two of the caps built, rather than pushing west towards PBS.

15th & Vine is 45,000sf

180 Walnut is planned for 235,000sf

 

I don't think you can even try to compare the two buildings.  There is probably very little overlap for interested tenants.  It wouldn't surprise me if 15th & Vine has more total tenants than 180 Walnut will someday. 

 

 

I'm not really comparing the scale. It just stuck out to me that 3CDC is willing to take a risk and build office space on spec while Carter wouldn't take that risk at The Banks. Obviously the scale is quite different. But I think it says a lot about where companies want to locate. Do we have to wait for another GE to come to town before the office tower at The Banks is built out? If so, we're probably going to be waiting a long time...

^Kind of in line with what this convo is all about, but OTR really does need to add a quite a bit of office uses, in my opinion especially along Vine.  The reason I say this is because, during off lunch hours during the weekday, it's a bit deserted and this is because of the low office use.  If you go to downtown, it is popping with activity during the business day hours (not counting lunch).

 

That all said, I don't think OTR can be teeming with businesses like downtown, because the infrastructure with the roads couldn't handle all of it I don't think with FedEx, UPS, etc., but if they can get 2,000 workers going up Vine / Main / Walnut Street at some point, that would really help make it bustle more, and then also help business with not only lunch but happy hour, etc.  All this would then help balance out with downtown adding more residential.

 

So, in short, my view changed from wanting say the buildings on 15th Street and Vine (East side of Vine) from being residential to now thinking it's a good idea they are doing office.  Then, I also wouldn't be disappointed if they targeted the old Kroger for redevelopment as office usage.  Sorry this can be moved to 3CDC OTR thread if need be.

^A building that is 20% the size of 180 Walnut has essentially 20% of the risk.  Also, we all know demand is red hot in OTR, so I'm sure 3CDC has a decent size list of firms looking for office space that will sign on once the building is closer to completion. A small firm is much more concerned about rent roll than than a bigger company like Mercy, who paid double rent for months after moving to Bond Hill.

They should have worked with Dunhumby/84.51 to go into 180 Walnut.  Would have been a perfect match with a growing local company who was looking to expand.  If they're waiting for a single tenant for all or most of 180 it's likely going to have to come from out of town which as others have said will likely take a while to find. 

Quite the write-up from WCPO:

 

After a decade, taxpayers have invested $135M in The Banks. Did we get the return we were promised?

 

A decade ago, when city and county officials inked a development deal to transform Cincinnati’s riverfront, they promised to spend $106 million on the project.

 

While taxpayers have upheld their end of the bargain, spending $135 million to construct The Banks over the last 10 years, private investment has been slow to catch up.

 

There’s an old newspaper clipping, published the day after The Banks deal was finalized, that hangs in Hamilton County Commission President Todd Portune’s office.

 

“Now, it’s developers’ turn to raise $600M to $800M share,” the bold headline reads.

 

But 10 years and two phases later, that private investment – from new offices to apartments — has totaled just $280 million so far.

 

There's still work to be done.

 

Cont

To answer the articles question it's impossible to say the banks hasn't been successful.  Just look at those old pictures of what that area use to look like compared to now.  A great riverfront park.  500+ apartments.  1,400+ everyday workers.  A soon to be opened hotel.  A collection of thriving restaurants and bars.  Sure they've had some places close but over half of restaurants that open in the US fail so I'm not sure why people think the banks should be immune to that. 

 

One positive of the closures is that some of them have been replaced with much better establishments.  The Stretch is a huge upgrade over Johnny Rockets and will likely be there for the long term.  Same for Burger Fi in place of Wine Guy, Corner Market in place of Orange Leaf and Howl at the Moon in place of Toby Keiths.  Taste of Belgium and Pies and Pints I think are both going to be successful especially if they can get the next phase built so they're not so isolated. 

 

Like the article said I think it will be a good thing in the long run that they're getting a new master developer now.  Before everything was just an idea to fill a giant mud pit.  Now you have all those apartments, restaurants/bars, GE workers, hotel guests and the park in place.  It's a much easier sell now to get someone to build at the Banks then it was over the past 10 years.  Hopefully they can get a new developer in place and continue the momentum the area has already developed.  To me the biggest things they could use are more everyday traffic and different types of food options.  Get 180 Walnut built and even another office building if possible.  Another hotel would be a good ideal considering the need is there downtown.  Obviously more apartments should be added in the next phase as well.  Food wise they could use something asian for lunch and dinner that should also stay open late night.  A pizza place similar to Goodfellas would making a killing there as well. 

When our firm was looking to relocate last year, a couple of patterns emerged.  If you want a walkable urban location and need less than 2,500 square feet you can find something just about anywhere.  Less than 4,000 square feet and you still have a decent number of choices.  However once you start getting higher than that, downtown is just about the only option left.  Try finding 8,000 square feet in any of the neighborhoods and you're almost certainly pushed outside of the NBD to locations like the Red Bank corridor, Rookwood, or Spring Grove Avenue that might just as well be out in the suburbs.  Even in OTR spaces that large don't usually come up for lease.  That's why those law firms and such are opening satellite offices rather than moving.  In part it's to cater to more specific clients, but they probably couldn't find enough contiguous space to relocate their entire firm even if they wanted to. 

I suppose that's not an office size that was popular in the neighborhoods when the good stuff was being built before 1950.

Agreed that they need more fast-casual food options at the Banks. Outside of picking up a sandwich at the Corner Market or Jimmy Johns, there are no other quick pick-up or to-go options. I think a Qdoba or something in that vein would do great down there.

OR a destination Skyline!  That would be great to have a destination Skyline down there.

OR a destination Skyline!  That would be great to have a destination Skyline down there.

 

I was about to say that a Skyline at The Banks would be tough since it's so close the the 4th/Sycamore location... but then I remembered that there are two Skylines on Vine St just three blocks away from each other. I love this city. I don't know when/if we hit "peak chili"... but I know we aren't there yet.

That's why those law firms and such are opening satellite offices rather than moving.

 

That reminds me. A year or two ago, my HOA was considering hiring a property management company. We set up a meeting with one potential company at a small office they had opened in OTR. During the meeting, the guy mentioned that the company has their main office out in the suburbs, but they were "forced" to open a satellite office in OTR because whenever they needed to have a meeting about one of their downtown/OTR properties, the residents would complain about having to drive to the suburbs. The way he said it came across as so disrespectful (almost like, "these spoiled OTR residents won't even get in their car and drive out to the suburbs!") that I immediately knew we didn't want to do business with them.

^^ Cranley should throw his weight around and get a flagship Gold Star built out at The Banks. Like you said, there are already two Skylines downtown (the one on Fourth being pretty close to whatever a 'flagship' chili parlor might be considered). There hasn't been a Gold Star since the Tower Place Mall food court closed. Gold Star is the official chili of the Bengals, so you think they could work that into a Banks location somehow.

They should have worked with Dunhumby/84.51 to go into 180 Walnut.  Would have been a perfect match with a growing local company who was looking to expand.  If they're waiting for a single tenant for all or most of 180 it's likely going to have to come from out of town which as others have said will likely take a while to find. 

 

Dunhummby was offered that space on the Banks but they preferred the 5th and Race space instead

^^ Cranley should throw his weight around and get a flagship Gold Star built out at The Banks. Like you said, there are already two Skylines downtown (the one on Fourth being pretty close to whatever a 'flagship' chili parlor might be considered). There hasn't been a Gold Star since the Tower Place Mall food court closed. Gold Star is the official chili of the Bengals, so you think they could work that into a Banks location somehow.

 

Bring back the Frisch's mid-century modern proposal!

 

Attached is the RFP for Amazon's "HQ2". Bids are due Oct. 19th. They're talking a lot of buildings and square feet. Specifically mentions "access to mass transit" as a core preference. If I was in charge I would make a two-state pitch for the remaining sites at the Banks plus the IRS site in Covington soon to be vacant. Streetcar access, Metro/TANK plus whatever future transit will ever go into the Riverfront Transit Center. Two halves connected by the most beautiful historic bridge in the country. Heck, Streetcar access means a they could even expand to Joseph's parking lot up on Main.

 

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/G/01/Anything/test/images/usa/RFP_3._V516043504_.pdf

^Yeah shoot, I was just going to say Joseph's, and the plethora of surface lots all around that area. 

 

I think though the thing that would hurt Cincy is even though we have the streetcar, we wouldn't have the mass transit capabilities an Atlanta, or Chicago, or even a Cleveland would have.  These type of deals is where it hurts us, and I don't know how the city and county could pass and move forward on mass transit to help Amazon considering the state of current federal and state government.  That said, Kasich could be persuaded with those job numbers to put money in a tunnel up to Pill Hill and some more BRT type routes into downtown.

Interesting part about mass transport. From the article that I read it stated they wanted somewhere more suburban to accommodate multiple buildings. Seemed like they are looking for more of a campus type option.   

Cincinnati makes a ton of sense for them.  Land and housing costs are very low.  There are tons of available building sites for offices in and near downtown, plus across the river (Ovation, IRS).  They won't have trouble attracting talent here.  Plus, of course, the Prime Air Hub will be here. 

With their new air hub at CVG and their presence around Wilmington and the direct adjacency to major competitor Kroger, I think Cincinnati is at least on the list of possible landing places, but we are probably on the smallest end they would consider.

I really like the IRS site in Covington (about 25 acres), plus some Ovation, plus the banks. It doesn't seem like we have enough space/infrastructure for 50,000 new people in the core unless they find some space in the West End, Queensgate or Camp Washington to add to this. Either way it would be pretty split up, not one cohesive 'campus'. However, with 5 billion dollars you could make one heck of an urban circulator to connect Cincinnati, Covington and Newport campuses.

Yeah I didn't even think about the Kroger competition. 

They are looking for 8,000,000 square feet of office.

 

Downtown currently has 7,798,710 sq. ft of Class A office inventory.

^ The transportation and infrastructure is there already. It can be closer to a major airport than most locations in big cities are. Lack of rail should not necessarily be a deal killer. THe streetcar offers the fact that there is an impetus to getting it done and building out that infrastructure when required. However, unlike a city like Chicago or Boston or Atlanta or Dallas where those are must haves, right now it is a nice to have and bus service can be increased to cover short term demand. As they build out, then better rail becomes a must have. Also, it can lead the way for a rail line from the HQ to the airport.

 

Point being, rail is not a necessity, ease of access around the region is. SO far, we still have that in Cincy.

No city has 8 million sq feet just sitting around.  At least we have the space in and near the downtown.  Already, Amazon's "campus" is quite spread out around Seattle, despite being concentrated mostly in SLU. 

 

I think the airport situation + the opportunity to poach Kroger's talent and drive it out of business puts Cincinnati a step above similar cities.  Also, there is a lot of crossover talent with P&G that wouldn't be direct competition. 

They are looking for 8,000,000 square feet of office.

 

Downtown currently has 7,798,710 sq. ft of Class A office inventory.

 

They can convert the 580 Building back to office. Ha. 

 

^I'm just thinking they could fit a ton of space just in the general area of Joseph Auto Lot, then all the surface lots east of there at the base of Mount Adams by the Greyhound Station, then go from there, if they are thinking downtown.

 

Really when you think about it, that could be an area similar to the Pearl District but with offices, with a huge part of the Amazon Campus, connect that to a protected Streetcar through downtown, over to Covington IRS Site, and then build out light rail to CVG

They only need 500K-1 Million for phase 1. It would have to be a new building though.

^ What about the areas around the new MLK interchange? Close to downtown, brand new highway infrastructure, and proximity to UC and Xavier.