>I don't think liberals are keeping public schools from instituting more rigorous physical education requirements.

 

Well I guarantee that any kind of daily jogging and obstacle course drills would be accused of being militaristic from the organic peanut gallery. 

 

> Let's not forget that it was the Reagan administration that attempt to define ketchup as a vegetable in order to spend less money on the national school lunch program.  Most school cafeteria food is the same type of food they serve at prisons.

 

I've eaten Hamilton County's jail food for 3 days and 3 nights.  It was pretty much the worst stuff I've ever eaten, I've definitely never had cafeteria food that bad.  People jokingly throw around the term "jail food" like they know what it is, well, I do know what it is, and what it is is an affront to human dignity.       

 

>There is a fine article in a recent past New Yorker about the efforts of a woman to serve healthier lunches in the Oakland Public Schools.  These types of meals typically cost a lot more than how much each current meal does.

 

The governor of Arkansas has tried the same thing and been deluged with insults from his people.  It's a critically important matter which few take seriously because few people take their health seriously.     

 

>I attended high school in the Cincinnati Public Schools and recall some year when the levy didn't pass and everyone who participate in athletics had to pay like $200 to do so that year.  I'm sure the kids who couldn't afford it were accommodated in some way.  Of course, we all had to register with the Communist Party and give a self-criticism on the last day of the month of Thermidor, but we were happy to participate in the Hundred Flowers Campaign to combat Rightist Thinking so long as we could still play sports.

 

Well there's no denying that public schools are at the mercy of political correctness and all sorts of tinkering by "experts" whereas Catholic and private schools are much more free to do things as they see fit.  This is a big reason why people send their kids to Catholic and private schools -- the culture of the schools is much more in tune with how they run their family.  And pretty much every catholic and private school has financial aid programs, so many of the people who claim they can't afford to send their kids could in fact send them. 

alright hannity and colmes theres a cincy public school thread and a hamilton county jail thread elsewhere. can somebody please post something about the banks before ann coulter and al franken drive me crazy

Is the Banks Developers still considering to putting more skyscrapers near the scripps building, as shown in the renderings. It would make downtown feel a little more closer together, making a bigger skyline then Columbus and Cleveland.

Cincinnati's skyline is already the best. Just not the tallest.

Yeh your right, we do have the best skyline I think. But I was just wondering since the renderings showed two more skyscrapers coming in besides Queen City Square, I was just wondering if they were or not. It's just would be neat to see that coming through cut in the hill.

Yeh your right, we do have the best skyline I think. But I was just wondering since the renderings showed two more skyscrapers coming in besides Queen City Square, I was just wondering if they were or not. It's just would be neat to see that coming through cut in the hill.

 

I do not believe that those skyscrapers, in the renderings, are part of the Banks project.  Those renderings also show the expanded convention center, and a couple other smaller projects that have happened along 3rd street.

 

The rendering(s) show what has been planned/granted approval to take place should the market be there.  In the Banks written plan it addresses 3rd to the point that it wants the Banks to use the large amount of office space/workers on 3rd to its advantage.  It also says how the Banks will help more development along 3rd with all of the additional parking that they claim will be added.

 

In summary, I don't see those skyscrapers happening any time soon (QCS II possibly), and definately without that quality architecture that is shown in the renderings.

alright hannity and colmes theres a cincy public school thread and a hamilton county jail thread elsewhere. can somebody please post something about the banks before ann coulter and al franken drive me crazy

 

Amen, I keep coming back for updates to only find non Banks related posts.  If you want to see Paris, we all know that Cincy Images has one hell of a gallery @ http://www.pbase.com/cincyimages/paris_france ;)

Amen, I keep coming back for updates to only find non Banks related posts.  If you want to see Paris, we all know that Cincy Images has one hell of a gallery @ http://www.pbase.com/cincyimages/paris_france ;)

 

Even if things may have gone a bit far afield, I still found it more interesting than the majority of posts here, most of which are either "Yay!," "Boo," "I like it," or "I don't like it" or some combination thereof. Next time LK is coming into town, I gotta find a way to get jmeck here. I wanna get these guys a few beers in 'em, sit back and enjoy the show. We'll need to find a neutral location, so Piti's and whatever skeezy westside bar Jake haunts are off limits.

 

To keep this Banks related... the AIG pick and the media coverage has placated the masses, but the project is still a non-starter unless AIG plans on losing money. The County is still resolutely against a big buy-in, and the City is broke as hell and is sending what money they do have to the CPD. Despite some of the rhetoric from the Mayor and Council, they'd rather manage decline with some rear-guard actions than invest and rebuild. I hope I'm wrong about this, but I still have a bad feeling about all of it, and my concerns weren't allayed by a conversation with a guy who has some insight into the proceedings of the working group.

 

Even if the County and City agree to development arrangements, air rights, sort out the Bengals parking issue, and all the rest, there's still the problem of money. I'm beginning to suspect that AIG said they'd throw in a shit load of cash themselves just to set themselves apart from the other contenders.

 

Cramer that wasn't directed at anyone in particular.  I agree that the lack of progress is mind numbing and the news that we receive is minuscule for a development this size, I imagine that is why the posts on here are limited to small responses.

Amen, I keep coming back for updates to only find non Banks related posts.  If you want to see Paris, we all know that Cincy Images has one hell of a gallery @ http://www.pbase.com/cincyimages/paris_france ;)

 

Even if things may have gone a bit far afield, I still found it more interesting than the majority of posts here, most of which are either "Yay!," "Boo," "I like it," or "I don't like it" or some combination thereof. Next time LK is coming into town, I gotta find a way to get jmeck here. I wanna get these guys a few beers in 'em, sit back and enjoy the show. We'll need to find a neutral location, so Piti's and whatever skeezy westside bar Jake haunts are off limits.

 

To keep this Banks related... the AIG pick and the media coverage has placated the masses, but the project is still a non-starter unless AIG plans on losing money. The County is still resolutely against a big buy-in, and the City is broke as hell and is sending what money they do have to the CPD. Despite some of the rhetoric from the Mayor and Council, they'd rather manage decline with some rear-guard actions than invest and rebuild. I hope I'm wrong about this, but I still have a bad feeling about all of it, and my concerns weren't allayed by a conversation with a guy who has some insight into the proceedings of the working group.

 

Even if the County and City agree to development arrangements, air rights, sort out the Bengals parking issue, and all the rest, there's still the problem of money. I'm beginning to suspect that AIG said they'd throw in a shit load of cash themselves just to set themselves apart from the other contenders.

 

 

I don't know, cramer. I'm certainly an outsider but have followed this issue and this time seems different.  I have have a feeling Castellini and crew and going to get this done.  There have been a lot of negatives associated w/ Cincy in recent years from the riots to the census data of people leaving.  I think everyone involved will push hard to get this done.  I don't think the Bengal;s air rights will be an issue; that can be worked out.  I do think that money could be, though.

Yeah I'm not real sure what all the recent whining is for.  As per everyone's recent timelines the project is on schedule.  Right now it is just going through the neccessary political red tape, that every project anywhere has to go through (proposal, modifications, approval, etc).  This is a very important project, and no one denies that, so why is it that once we have this thing finally underway that people want it to be rushed through the process.  The light at the end of the tunnel is near....just hold out a little longer, and we will all be plesantly surprised (hopefully) :-D

Not sure if you're characterizing my concerns as whining, but that wasn't my intent. My point was to say that, again from what I've heard from someone with an insight to the working group, it isn't just a matter of setting politics aside and reaching an accord, or just working through the process. I think the BWG has that well in hand. But they can't print money.

 

I'm not trying to be whiny, or be a curmudgeon. I'm just concerned that everyone pretty much presumes that because a developer has been chosen, that everything will be hunky dory. I've been that there are some "fundamentals" that are weak. I took that to mean money and financing is an issue. I think that jibes with the AIG trial balloon in the Enquirer weeks back about adding several times more residential than initially planned. Seems to me that's a sign that they're trying to get to a more favorable financial position.

 

I'm hopeful too, but when we've been at this for so long, it just makes sense to maintain some skepticism.

Is any of this project getting started?

 

The park-- Central Riverfront Park, is that still a part of the project?

I don't know if that was a joke... it might have been funny

 

And, I dont really feel like taking the time to read through 36 pages of posts... so, scold me for being lazy, I can take it, from the pictures I have seen, there are a few really classy skyscrapers going up along fort washington way, I imagine those are just fantasy? They aren't on the parking lot, and I just figured that the only reality of this project was the large piece of ground that we could send at risk kids to to dig holes... like that one book... Holes

exurb, the only building proposed along 3rd Street is Queen City Square Phase II.  The other towers in the renderings are no longer on the table.

exurb, the only building proposed along 3rd Street is Queen City Square Phase II.  The other towers in the renderings are no longer on the table.

 

which i am eagerly awaiting! thanks!

I assume, that the Banks Project was just something we are never going to get off the ground, I wish we knew exactly the source of the problem, besides Hamilton County officials not working with City Hall, on an agreement. Do we have to wait another 5 years for this to finally come together.

^I would assume the problem is that it is not economically viable

^^Unless you know what I don't there doesn't seem to be a problem.  Work is being done behind the scenes with the working committee and AIG/Carter and I would expect to hear something in the coming months but as for now I'm glad that this deal isn't constantly making media attention this way we can have more substantive reporting going on.

The silence is killing us though Weedrose.

^ I know nothing, I am just taking a guess, a big sticking point before was the amount that the local governments would pay for the parking garages.  If that has been resolved and things are moving ahead, then the project becomes economically feasible again.  I just hope the thing gets built and they do it right.  I've been down to Atlantic Station in ATL and it has a lot of potential but no soul. (its in atlanta, what do you expect)  Also Atlantic station isn't in a position where you can walk to anywhere from it so it is really kinda self contained. (its in atlanta, what do you expect)  I went to the Bengals game on thursday and marveled at the potential for the Banks.  I just hope they iron out the details.

I was at the meeting with the mayor and the YP group at City Hall last week and I was encouraged by what I heard.  Maybe the mayor is trying to paint a glossy picture but I didn't get that impression.  He said more had been done (all generally behind the scenes) in the last six months that in years and he would expect actual dirt to move by end of 2007.  I speciffically asked from the audiance, "Will I see buildings by the time I die." He jokingly asked when I expected to die.  But then said he expected dirt movement/construction by end of 2007.

^^Unless you know what I don't there doesn't seem to be a problem.  Work is being done behind the scenes with the working committee and AIG/Carter and I would expect to hear something in the coming months but as for now I'm glad that this deal isn't constantly making media attention this way we can have more substantive reporting going on.

 

There is significant work progressing behind the scenes!!!  I have spoken with the Cincinnati Planning Commission chair multiple times on the topic and he has given me VERY encouraging news:

 

-Since it is zoned a PD, any plan has to be approved by the Planning Commission...therefore AIG has been meeting with the PC on a regular basis to discuss the progressions of their site proposal.  By the time this is all done...the passing of the plan will be a formality since the PC has already had their say and modifcations made.

 

-Most recently he informed me that AIG wanted to increase the total square footage of the project.

 

-PC is also very supportive of development (possibly along the street frontage) of the decking above FWW...this is not part of AIG's development area, but the idea of them collaborating with this is a possibility.

 

*The only issue right now is still the parking situation, however, AIG is continuing work while the parking is worked out along the way (time is money).

 

Be patient....you are going to get a QUALITY project out of this and will have something to be trully proud of (not like Newport's shit).

PC is also very supportive of development (possibly along the street frontage) of the decking above FWW...this is not part of AIG's development area, but the idea of them collaborating with this is a possibility.

 

Very happy to hear that this is at least being considered.  If the area is densely developed from 3rd street south, it would make the now excessive amounts of proposed green space more attractive.

-Since it is zoned a PD, any plan has to be approved by the Planning Commission...therefore AIG has been meeting with the PC on a regular basis to discuss the progressions of their site proposal.  By the time this is all done...the passing of the plan will be a formality since the PC has already had their say and modifcations made.

 

have you seen anything about the maximum height in the PD?

^PD's are nice because they do not have to meet any specific zoning guidelines set out.  Someone can come in with a plan and if it is up to par with the PC then it is allowable.  However with this instance the Bengals/PBS have some regulations out there that restrict bldg heights around the stadium that might inhibit sightlines in/out of PBS.

 

I would assume that PC is taking that, as well as, other bldg height regs into consideration when they decide to either approve/disapprove the proposal.

 

In a nut shell....nothing is set in stone, and the city will look to get the most bang for their buck realistically speaking.

hopefully it wil resemble the CN-P but with a greater maximim height than 50 ft and have the density of the RMX or the RM .7

So is the City, actually working on the Banks Project, or are we waiting for final key issues to be in place for groundbreaking.

^^Unless you know what I don't there doesn't seem to be a problem.  Work is being done behind the scenes with the working committee and AIG/Carter and I would expect to hear something in the coming months but as for now I'm glad that this deal isn't constantly making media attention this way we can have more substantive reporting going on.

 

There is significant work progressing behind the scenes!!!  I have spoken with the Cincinnati Planning Commission chair multiple times on the topic and he has given me VERY encouraging news:

 

-Since it is zoned a PD, any plan has to be approved by the Planning Commission...therefore AIG has been meeting with the PC on a regular basis to discuss the progressions of their site proposal.  By the time this is all done...the passing of the plan will be a formality since the PC has already had their say and modifcations made.

 

-Most recently he informed me that AIG wanted to increase the total square footage of the project.

 

-PC is also very supportive of development (possibly along the street frontage) of the decking above FWW...this is not part of AIG's development area, but the idea of them collaborating with this is a possibility.

 

*The only issue right now is still the parking situation, however, AIG is continuing work while the parking is worked out along the way (time is money).

 

Be patient....you are going to get a QUALITY project out of this and will have something to be trully proud of (not like Newport's shit).

 

If Newport has such "shit", then why is it pulling people across the river so much?  You know what pisses me off about you, Rando?  You rag on people who criticize Cincinnati, but then you turn right around and rag on other cities.

I really dont mind Newport, I just mind people saying that Newport is so cool and that it' better than Cincinnati...because that just is not true.  They have mainly chain restaurants in a isolationist environment on the Levee.  Granted, the aquarium and Hofbrauhaus are cool, as are some other parts of Newport, but to say that it is some paradise that is drawing people in droves because of it's uniqueness is absurd.  Last night downtown Cincinnati was PACKED (wait of 1.5 hours for a party of 3 at McSchmick's, waits of over an hour for skate rental, lines waiting for carriage rides) and there surely were plenty of Northern Kentucky residents there but you don't see headlines screaming "Cincinnati drawing hundreds from NKY while Newport officials are left scratching their heads!!!" as you hear from people all the time about Newport. 

 

It's just a disproportionate ammount of love for Newport from suburbanites that bothers me more than the actual Levee.

It's just a disproportionate ammount of love for Newport from suburbanites that bothers me more than the actual Levee[i/]

 

Kenwood towne center and a bunch of other corporate formula malls also draw huge groups of people.  The truth is most people in the suburbs have this irrationally negative view of downtown, but don't have it for Newport on the Levee, which is essentially just a mall but it has underground parking.  Suburbanites just love malls because that is what they are comfortable with and are afraid of cities which is why they live in the suburbs to begin with. 

The problem is that people don't think of Newport as part of a development compendium.  Development along the river is great Newport's development serves its market well and is a good addition to the riverfront and when the banks is complete that'll be a great addition as well. 

Honestly, I'm glad NOTL exists.. It could have been designed better, thats for sure, but it does add SOMETHING significant to our riverfront. Theres a lot of things Cincinnati has that Newport does not (forune 500 companies) so there's no reason to be jealous of Newport. No one ever complains about Norwood taking all of Cincinnati's business with Rookwood.

I don't think the Levee is crappy, but it definitely is not as great as a lot of folks in Greater Cincinnati seem to think it is.  I went to both the Levee and Fountain Square yesterday afternoon/evening, and they both have plenty to offer.  Many locals, however, focus on only the positives at Newport and only the negatives of Downtown.  The problems with the IMAX at the levee are a good example.   

 

I also think it's funny that plenty of folks I know complain about "the cost of parking downtown" for an evening, but they don't bat an eye at paying $3 to park at the Levee. 

^ interesting points.  i think people use parking as the easy excuse simply because they are too lazy or just dont want to go all the way downtown...both of which are fine, just dont blame it on the parking you know?

If Newport has such "shit", then why is it pulling people across the river so much?  You know what pisses me off about you, Rando?  You rag on people who criticize Cincinnati, but then you turn right around and rag on other cities.

 

Well I'm sorry I enrage you like this.  But my comment was not directed towards NOTL, but rather Ovation (not drawing anyone yet...since its not built).  Yes NOTL is drawing people from Cincy, but it is not healthy...the reason it draws is because it offers an experience that is not available in Cincy..yet.  Either way thats a conversation for another thread.

 

Newport/Nky as a whole have had very little in terms of regulations when development comes along (Newport is much more guilty of this than Covington...see Ovation, NOTL, Newport Pavilion).  Yes I don't like it when people criticize Cincy...but I accept it when it is legit.  I don't like to hear:  "The Banks project is taking tooo long, Cincy is falling further behing Nky"...."Inept Cincy is screwing things up again...this project will never happen".  These kinds of comments come from people who often do not know the real situation behind the project.  Criticize me all you want, I will admit when I am wrong, but I will NOT change my opinion on the way Nky and Newport specifically operate in terms of developments.

 

Please everyone...lets not turn this into another Cincinnati v. NOTL conversation.  If someone really wants to create a City Discussion thread about Cincy v. NOTL.

Ultimately, we shouldn't even have to compare the Banks to NOTL.  Also, suburbanites need to set higher standards when I hear how great NOTL is I always think that those people are probably the same people who go to MFEMFEM for Navy Pier.  One element that is seriously missing from the Banks project at this point is culturally significant elements. There should be a commemorative element to this project to distinguish it from the gaggle of waterfront development projects that are springing up across this country.

MFEMFEM is MFEMFEM.  Don't know why that happened.

^^the riverfront park might help as a cultural/unique institution.

UMmmm.... Does the Freedom Center count as a culturally significant part of this development?  If you haven't been, it is a very powerful museum.

UMmmm.... Does the Freedom Center count as a culturally significant part of this development? 

 

Not if no one goes to it

UMmmm.... Does the Freedom Center count as a culturally significant part of this development? 

 

Not if no one goes to it

 

It will draw more people if they make a cohesive neighborhood with a park and other attractions in the area.

 

People talk about NOTL, that would not be nearly as popular without the aquarium nor would the aquarium be as successful without the levee providing other attractions for visitors. Same will be said for the Freedom center once the Banks is done.

MFEMFEM is MFEMFEM.  Don't know why that happened.

 

what is MFEMMFEM?

Bengals battles imperil Banks?

Portune wants deal with team

BY KIMBALL PERRY | [email protected]

 

If Hamilton County can't resolve its "legal land mines" with the Cincinnati Bengals, it could endanger the proposed $600 million development called the Banks, the new president of the Hamilton County Commission said Monday.

 

Full story text is available at

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070109/NEWS01/701090389/1077/COL02

As part of the 1997 lease the Bengals signed with Hamilton County to play at Paul Brown Stadium, the team has some say over how tall the buildings at the Banks can be and what kind of businesses can be located in the area.

 

This is the thing that totally blows my mind....The Bengals need to cut their strangle hold off of the Banks and let it go the way the developer wishes.  I'm not sure why a private entity has ANY control over public property?!?!?

This comes back to the concept of the public and private sector having one vision and working towards what is best for the community not just themselves. The Cincy area must overcome this problem if they wish to compete in the future economy and with peer cities.

Because the lease was the single most outrageous lease signed during the recent stadium construction wave.  When the Browns left Cleveland, it allowed every other team, especially the Bengals, to take advantage of the public's hysteria and negotiate outrageous leases.  The Bengales got EVERYTHING they wanted, they got the location they wanted, they got their stadium built first, they got practice fields, an MRI machine, a guarantee on attendance, a guarantee that the stadium would be ready for the 2000 season (costing tens of millions of public money in overtime), nearly full say over usage of a stadium they didn't pay to build, and even say over nearby development.  And what does Mike Brown do?  Puts the same damn lousy team on the field for years, they now have only one playoff appearance in 6 seasons with increased revenue, refuses to budge on any front.  There was absolutely no guarantee with this huge outlay of public funding that the team had to perform with a winning record, no guarantee that there would even be any nearby development.  Then he hired Bob Bedinghaus, probably paying the guy $300K, directly off the tax and lease he himself orchestrated. 

 

So why do people keep paying to go see pro sports?  To see a bunch of guys who have been coddled since they were 8 years old, had women and vehicles thrown at them by college recruiters, do steroids, and typically blow their outrageous salaries on luxury items well away from the cities in which they play.  I have never set foot in PBS and never will unless I get free tickets, it's been absolutely disastrous for the Cincinnati area.  2027 isn't too far way, or rather 2020, when the Bengals will surely begin rumblings that they want yet another new stadium.  Maybe in a few years Mike Brown will donate a good amount of his family fortune to local charities, but as of now I'm not aware of a single thing he's done in that realm.  The Bengals aren't giving much at all back to the community, period.     

 

Hamilton County wants $2.9 million in rent it insists the team hasn't paid.

 

The Bengals say they owe no unpaid rent because the team paid about $2.5 million to settle an IRS claim against $26 million raised from season-ticket holders.

 

What the hell does paying the IRS have to do with paying your rent?

 

Mike Brown's an ass.

I've said it before, and my position remains the same....when the teams threatened to leave the city unless the stadiums were built, we should have told them "bye bye", and to make sure the door didn't hit them in the butt on the way out.

 

I agree with jmecklenborg - I'll NEVER step foot into either stadium EVER.

Hamilton Co. got raped by the Bengals.  We should have let them go, or found some way to get contributions from neighboring counties.  There is no way the Bengals contribute enough to Hamilton County to make it worth the sacrifice.