1 hour ago, ColDayMan said:

chess match 

 

Cranley always plays the victim, like Trump.  

2 hours ago, snakebite said:

The laughable thing is to me also, these are lots to build basically suburban cookie cutter type residential and hotels with ground floor retail for the most part in order to increase density. We're not talking high rises.

Unfortunately with all of these bar and restaurant closures banks are going to be even less likely to finance mixed-use.

City of Cincinnati yanks a permit at the Banks, halts construction 

 

Amid a rancorous political dispute between Mayor John Cranley and Hamilton County commissioners, the city of Cincinnati pulled Hamilton County’s construction permit at the site where public infrastructure is being built for the extension of Smale Riverfront Park and the Andrew J. Brady Icon Music Center.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2020/08/10/city-yanks-permit-at-the-banks-halts-construction.html

I'm trying to understand the incentives/motivations behind the City-versus-county debates. The implication of this dispute is that a) Cranley has something proposed to construct on Lots 1 and 13 and b) the County would not support whatever it is that Cranley wants to build. Or, is there another way of interpreting this dispute? It seems like Cranley is expending a lot of political capital on this, so presumably he believes there's some upside for him if he gets his way. 

 

From that most recent Courier article ^:

Quote

The latest dispute was born out of an agreement Mayor John Cranley and the late Commissioner Todd Portune in November. In broad terms, they agreed the city would have control over development at Lots 1 and 13 of the Banks, while the county would get the rights to Lots 24 and 25, with the Andrew J. Brady Icon Music Center and park on Lots 27 and 23, respectively. But an agreement on the fine print has proven elusive.

 

The mayor believes the longtime master development agreement, where the county would build the garages necessary to bring the rest of the development, including Lots 1 and 13, out of the flood plain, is no longer operative.

 

The county wants the master development agreement provisions and the financial tools embedded in it to ensure each party is made whole financially remain in place or be replaced with a suitable alternative. The mayor has said the county’s insistence on building parking garages shows it wants veto power over what goes on Lots 1 and 13.

 

 

 

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the County doesn't know either but he probably has some deal he will work as a lawyer for some developer once he gets out of office.

3 hours ago, jwulsin said:

I'm trying to understand the incentives/motivations behind the City-versus-county debates. The implication of this dispute is that a) Cranley has something proposed to construct on Lots 1 and 13 and b) the County would not support whatever it is that Cranley wants to build. Or, is there another way of interpreting this dispute? It seems like Cranley is expending a lot of political capital on this, so presumably he believes there's some upside for him if he gets his way. 

 

He's already called in 3CDC as a development advisor for the lots and has suggested just building the deck coverings instead of building out the parking. I am not sure why there is such urgency but he tends to think he is right and once he arrives at a decision he digs in. This probably has more to do with his ego (i.e. legacy and winning) than anything else. 

Hamilton County offers to let Cincinnati build riverfront park; city says county’s actions ‘are a violation of trust’

 

 

The acrimony continues between Cincinnati and Hamilton County over the Banks project, but there may be movement that could get the extension of Smale Riverfront Park and a related parcel under construction again.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2020/08/11/county-offers-to-let-city-build-park.html

4 hours ago, JYP said:

This probably has more to do with his ego (i.e. legacy and winning) than anything else. 

It's possible it's just ego... but to me it seems like something larger is at play. The latest article mentions that the County is considering letting the City build the park... which reminds of Tom Sawyer getting his friends to pay for the chance to whitewash the fence. Like... why are they angling to assume the responsibility to build the park? Isn't that a financial burden they should be pushing the other to assume? Just strikes me as bizarre and contrary to how local politics typically plays out. I'll go on the record that I suspect Cranley has motivations beyond his ego/legacy. 

 

Quote

Letting the city build the park “isn’t so far fetched because we were going to turn it over to them anyway. We’re waiting to hear back from the city,” Driehaus said at Tuesday’s county staff meeting.

 

Hamilton County agrees to Cincinnati's latest Banks proposal

 

Hamilton County has agreed to allow the city of Cincinnati to co-sign the construction contract for a key extension of Smale Riverfront Park. It’s a move the county hopes will restart construction after the city yanked permits earlier this week in a long-running dispute over the riverfront real estate project.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2020/08/14/county-says-yes-to-citys-latest-banks-proposal.html

I went down to the banks on Sunday to get some brunch as Taste of Belgium.

 

I haven't been to downtown In a while, but I wasn't expecting things to be so bleak....I can't tell if it was just me noticing this, but I feel like there is exponentially more homeless people at the banks now.

 

Maybe they were "hidden" because their were more people strolling around before covid came along....

 

For the first time, in a long time, I felt somewhat uncomfortable being at the banks. There were quite a few homeless men at smale park that were practically in their boxers with no shirt or shoes and were yelling sexual profanities to my wife and my little daughter...

 

Obviously, this stuff happens in urban environments, but I never really experienced this at the banks before. It was odd...and quite frankly made me depressed.

 

I know covid/riots caused alot of the new urban residents to leave/planning to leave downtown for the suburbs. I hope things return to normal soon because what I saw of our urban core that was once really bustling (relatively speaking) has grounded to a halt...it was just really unfortunate and depressing and more so for the banks that never really had any crime/homeless problem in the past.  

Edited August 17, 20204 yr by troeros

9 hours ago, troeros said:

I know covid/riots caused alot of the new urban residents to leave/planning to leave downtown for the suburbs.

 

This isn't necessarily true at all.  Having less suburban visitors and office workers is causing the depressing look of things downtown.  Things will be fine if (fingers-crossed) COVID fades into memory next year.

9 hours ago, troeros said:

Maybe they were "hidden" because their were more people strolling around before covid came along....

This is mostly what's happening, mixed with an obviously higher number of unemployed people due to our nation's failures (which can be discussed in the current events section) but think about the Banks; it's traffic is driven by two large sport stadiums (empty), an arena (empty), Smale park (playground, splash fountains and carousel closed), GE offices (mostly empty) and bars/restaurants which have limited capacity and depend on the previous drivers to generate traffic. The Banks is definitely empty feeling compared to OTR and other more neighborhoody areas of town, but it's not a sign that downtown is dying or that people are fleeing to the suburbs, that's hyperbolic conjecture. 

It's more anecdotal stories than anything. I have quite a few friends that live downtown/otr....many of them have stated that they are not going to renew their lease...partially due to the economic conditions and rent not reflecting the economic downturn in the urban core...and the second aspect is not feeling safe anymore. 

 

Before the late night bar hopping/bachelorette party crowds at otr/the banks/reds games would buffer out the sketchyness...but with all of that gone its very difficult to do simple tasks like walk the dogs late at night or get groceries without consistently being targeted for money/items...and from what I understand it's not a simple, "can you spare some change" pan handling but rather it's a, " I want to see your mobile bank account and I won't stop following you until you walk over to an atm and give me some cash."

 

Again, I'm sure everyone experiences will differ. I'm sure overall that your likelihood of becoming a victim is very low...but I can understand why downtown could feel much more, "intimidating" now, especially with exponentially less street traffic and many businesses temporarily closed. 

 

 

1 hour ago, troeros said:

Before the late night bar hopping/bachelorette party crowds at otr/the banks/reds games would buffer out the sketchyness...

 

The bar/bachelorette crowds are still very much there. Downtown was full of pedal pubs this weekend. 

 

1 hour ago, troeros said:

but with all of that gone its very difficult to do simple tasks like walk the dogs late at night or get groceries without consistently being targeted for money/items...

 

I have not been the target of panhandlers any more than usual. I've noticed more at highway interchanges but downtown hasn't been any worse. 

 

1 hour ago, troeros said:

and from what I understand it's not a simple, "can you spare some change" pan handling but rather it's a, " I want to see your mobile bank account and I won't stop following you until you walk over to an atm and give me some cash."

 

I don't think you're lying here, but I just find this so difficult to believe. I'm downtown a lot. Like every single day. I once had a guy follow me for two blocks crying about how he was starving. He obviously had mental issues. That was like 3 years ago. I have NEVER, including in COVID times had a panhandler ask to see my mobile bank account. 99.9% of the time you say "sorry bud no cash" and they move on to the next person. That has not changed. 

The developer of the office building claims they are seeing strong interest for the building and have possible tenants for about 50% of the space. If they can get them signed it will be enough to start construction. I want to believe them but I’m very cautiously optimistic.

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2020/08/17/180-walnut-at-the-banks-garners-strong-interest.html

Any word on what is going on with the ferris wheel by the banks? I know back in February the deal was signed with Hamilton county to get the new ferris wheel constructed...I sort of miss it's presence and I hope this project is still slated to happen. 

15 minutes ago, troeros said:

Any word on what is going on with the ferris wheel by the banks? I know back in February the deal was signed with Hamilton county to get the new ferris wheel constructed...I sort of miss it's presence and I hope this project is still slated to happen. 

 

Good question. Last I read the wheel itself was being constructed in Europe or something? Before being shipped. Then I read the city wanted to be apart of the lease agreement with the county for the new wheel (not sure how that turned out). BUT the old wheel was sent to San Francisco for a fair type event and then COVID happened. So I’m not sure if that hurt the pocket book of the operator and has hurt finishing the Cincy wheel project. I have read that the Newport Wheel has been cancelled tho if I’m not mistaken.

Edited August 17, 20204 yr by 646empire

Re: the planned Banks office building. I think the Scripps center looks great and makes the skyline look great. Is there a rendering of how the Banks office building would alter the head-on view of the Scripps building and skyline? 

Edited August 17, 20204 yr by thebillshark

49 minutes ago, thebillshark said:

Re: the planned Banks office building. I think the Scripps center looks great and makes the skyline look great. Is there a rendering of how the Banks office building would alter the head-on view of the Scripps building and skyline? 

 

It'll be a little more than half as tall as the Scripps building but it will sit at a lower elevation. It'll block a portion of the Scripps building but a majority of it will still be visible. The new building will be similar in height to the Atrium One building, seen here with the Omnicare sign on top. However, the new building will also sit lower than the Atrium One building so it won't appear quite as tall from this view.

 

 

Edited August 17, 20204 yr by DEPACincy

1 hour ago, DEPACincy said:

I don't think you're lying here, but I just find this so difficult to believe. I'm downtown a lot. Like every single day. I once had a guy follow me for two blocks crying about how he was starving. He obviously had mental issues. That was like 3 years ago. I have NEVER, including in COVID times had a panhandler ask to see my mobile bank account. 99.9% of the time you say "sorry bud no cash" and they move on to the next person. That has not changed. 

 

For the last two decades or so my go-to response to panhandlers had been "I don't have any cash." I abandoned that about a year or two ago because too many bums have the gall to follow up by telling you where an ATM is or asking you to buy something with a card and get cash back for them. This was happening about once every three visits I made to the Shell on Liberty. "Can't do it" is my response now. It seems to work. I have noticed panhandlers will be way more aggressive with women and anyone that seems like they aren't used to living in a city.

 

There's a good reason you can't legally panhandle near ATMs, storefronts, or even parking meters - to discourage that sort of aggressive panhandling in a place where victims have money/cards out and ready to use; but like many laws in Cincinnati they are practically never enforced. If they were, there would be very limited places downtown that you could actually ask for money:

 

https://library.municode.com/oh/cincinnati/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=TITIXMI_CH910PUOR_S910-12IMSO

2 hours ago, 646empire said:

 

Good question. Last I read the wheel itself was being constructed in Europe or something? Before being shipped. 

 

Back when the Peace Bell was cast in France we heard about it endlessly.  Then we were updated on its movements across the ocean and up the Mississippi and Ohio Rivers.  Then the thing rang in the New Year and nobody's heard it ring since.   

1 hour ago, Ram23 said:

 have noticed panhandlers will be way more aggressive with women and anyone that seems like they aren't used to living in a city.

 

Maybe they know I'm a woman but I don't because I get harassed by these guys on the regular.  On the 4th of July I was eating in my car after doing a 100-mile bike ride and this guy started begging for money while I was sitting there eating and minding my own business.  I was a little loopy because of the ride so I told him I was eating and to flip off.  He stood there and watched me eat for a minute until I finally just put down the food, started the car, and drove away.  A few seconds later I smell smoke and realize that he had flicked his cigarette in my car and it had set my Covid mask on fire.  I threw it and the napkins that were sitting on the passenger seat out the window.  

Cincinnati, Hamilton County sign deal on The Banks; park construction to resume

 

 

Cincinnati and Hamilton County have signed an agreement that will allow a restart of construction on the extension of Smale Riverfront Park.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2020/08/20/city-county-sign-banks-deal.html

On 8/18/2020 at 5:17 AM, jmecklenborg said:

 

Maybe they know I'm a woman but I don't because I get harassed by these guys on the regular.  On the 4th of July I was eating in my car after doing a 100-mile bike ride and this guy started begging for money while I was sitting there eating and minding my own business.  I was a little loopy because of the ride so I told him I was eating and to flip off.  He stood there and watched me eat for a minute until I finally just put down the food, started the car, and drove away.  A few seconds later I smell smoke and realize that he had flicked his cigarette in my car and it had set my Covid mask on fire.  I threw it and the napkins that were sitting on the passenger seat out the window.  

I have a few questions...
 

You’re a woman? You were in your car eating after a 100-mile bike ride? 100-mile bike ride? A casually flicked cigarette landed directly on your mask and set it afire? You deliberately threw burning trash out onto the city street?

3 hours ago, UncleRando said:

I have a few questions...
 

You’re a woman?

 

It's hard to know sometimes. 

 

3 hours ago, UncleRando said:

You were in your car eating after a 100-mile bike ride? 100-mile bike ride? A casually flicked cigarette landed directly on your mask and set it afire? You deliberately threw burning trash out onto the city street?

 

Here is the ride:

https://www.strava.com/activities/3714228870

 

I rode back to my house and didn't have any food.  It being the 4th of July the only place open was White Castle.  I was tired from riding so I drove to the one on Reading.  I pulled over on the left side of Calhoun...the dude hit me up in front of Mole's:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1281248,-84.5132672,3a,39.4y,232.23h,91.84t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sZzjKU0DyQuRR-Tuy-FIRhA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

 

The mask and napkins were smoking but not flaming. 

 

 

 

 

Taken 8/24

Office building could be moving forward:

 

 

14 minutes ago, taestell said:

Office building could be moving forward:

 

 

Like that it is now at 17 floors. It was originally I believe 15?

Is there commercial space on the ground floor?

Quote

City and county are not providing any economic incentives for project

Nice

 

Set to open in 2023... curious who the tenants will be? 

Would be huge for the banks and a great addition, but I'll believe it when construction starts. 

Edited August 26, 20204 yr by Cincy513

Awesome to hear. A building like this will hopefully help stabilize the retail spaces in The Banks. Also great no incentives seem to be needed to make it happen.

I know these things are obviously a, "wait until there's actual construction to get excited" but if they already have 50% accounted for that's a pretty good sign they'll be serious about moving forward.

Does anyone have a rendering of how a 17 story building would look like on the skyline?

28 minutes ago, troeros said:

Does anyone have a rendering of how a 17 story building would look like on the skyline?

While nice, it would have been cooler for a 30-35 story tower in Western part of the CBD or along 7th street

12 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

While nice, it would have been cooler for a 30-35 story tower in Western part of the CBD or along 7th street

 

I'll take what I can get during these crazy economic times lol

37 minutes ago, troeros said:

Does anyone have a rendering of how a 17 story building would look like on the skyline?

Just a rough approximation, but to get a rough sense of scale I took the 12-story GE building height (shown with the yellow line), and increased it by about 1.4x (shown with the red line). This isn't precise, but gives a sense:

 

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

While nice, it would have been cooler for a 30-35 story tower in Western part of the CBD or along 7th street

We might get a large tower in the western half of the CBD, especially if hotels/convention centers come back strong and the millennium site is replaced with a new major hotel. (nobody is going to want to build anything near the convention center until there is a direction on how/where/if it will expand) There is also the possibility of new residential towers, or a large corporation building their own new building, instead of spec building like this is. It's not like since we get to have one new office tower, that has been planned for a couple decades mind you, that we don't get to have other new towers.

24 minutes ago, ucgrady said:

We might get a large tower in the western half of the CBD, especially if hotels/convention centers come back strong and the millennium site is replaced with a new major hotel. (nobody is going to want to build anything near the convention center until there is a direction on how/where/if it will expand) There is also the possibility of new residential towers, or a large corporation building their own new building, instead of spec building like this is. It's not like since we get to have one new office tower, that has been planned for a couple decades mind you, that we don't get to have other new towers.

There’s also the redevelopment of 435 Elm st. Which a Columbus developer says he has big plans for. 
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cincinnati.com/amp/4677425002

That building will be a nice size to add to the riverfront!

 

The Banks is slowly filling in more and more and though I hardly get down there anymore it's very encouraging to see.

1 minute ago, IAGuy39 said:

That building will be a nice size to add to the riverfront!

 

The Banks is slowly filling in more and more and though I hardly get down there anymore it's very encouraging to see.

And I think it will be a catalyst to get the rest of the empty lots developed around the music center. 

More info on 180 at the Banks. 
 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2020/09/01/180-walnut-no-subsidy.html

 

Few questions I have. Previous articles state that it is now at 17 floors. This article states that 11 of those floors will be for office. I’m assuming the top floor and ground floor is not being counted in that, so that gives us 13 floors. What’s the other 4 floors being used for? Is the lobby technically going to be the height of 2 floors? Looking at the rendering I am seeing only 15 floors. I wonder if there will be a new rendering out or if the one is the article is the current plan.  
 

All in all 250 ft will be a nice addition to the skyline and add really nicely to the views from the cut in the hill as well as Devou Park. 

Edited September 1, 20204 yr by Ucgrad2015
Updated floor counts

One of the floors is likely going to be the gym like in GE's building. 

42 minutes ago, Ucgrad2015 said:

More info on 180 at the Banks. 
 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2020/09/01/180-walnut-no-subsidy.html

 

Few questions I have. Previous articles state that it is now at 17 floors. This article states that 11 of those floors will be for office. I’m assuming the top floor and ground floor is not being counted in that, so that gives us 13 floors. What’s the other 4 floors being used for? Is the lobby technically going to be the height of 2 floors? Looking at the rendering I am seeing only 15 floors. I wonder if there will be a new rendering out or if the one is the article is the current plan.  
 

All in all 250 ft will be a nice addition to the skyline and add really nicely to the views from the cut in the hill as well as Devou Park. 

Either the rendering is out of date, or they are including the two stories of parking below the site. The article mentions that there is no subsidy because they already have the foundations and parking below, so perhaps they are including this into their floor count as well as their proforma. They also mention this allows them to build "less parking", not zero parking. So this would mean: 2 stories of parking below street level, 1 level lobby/parking access, 1 level parking, 1 level gym/amenity, 11 levels office, 1 level rooftop terrace/mechanical = 17 floors?

Quote

 

The difference between this project and GE is that Cincinnati was competing against more than a half-dozen other jurisdictions, Gabelman said, and GE was bringing all of the jobs at once. 180 Walnut is being built on spec. A property tax abatement was given to developer Carter to make the rent more competitive for GE, while its employees also received a parking discount.

“It was a different time,” Gableman said.

 

 

The city also kicks back the earnings tax it collects from GE employees to GE...which is a crime.  

 

 

 

24 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said:

 

The city also kicks back the earnings tax it collects from GE employees to GE...which is a crime.  

 

 

 

The earnings tax rebate was a carrot and GE failed to get the carrot so I assume the city will keep all that money. I'm not saying it was a good idea, but the way it worked out we got lucky in that GE hasn't gotten any of that money from the city yet, but they did build new office building and bring over 1000 high wage jobs to the city. 

 

Quote

GE had not claimed any of the $38.8 million in earnings tax breaks because it has not created the required number of jobs, employing between 1,300 and 1,400 compared with an initial pledge of 1,800.

 

1 hour ago, ucgrady said:

The earnings tax rebate was a carrot and GE failed to get the carrot so I assume the city will keep all that money. I'm not saying it was a good idea, but the way it worked out we got lucky in that GE hasn't gotten any of that money from the city yet, but they did build new office building and bring over 1000 high wage jobs to the city.

 

Correct. Per the Business Courier article, GE has not met their promise of creating 1,800 jobs at The Banks so they do not (yet) qualify for the kickback.

2 hours ago, ucgrady said:

GE failed to get the carrot

 

Okay.  I assumed that this arrangement was automatic back when the deal was publicized in 2015 or thereabouts.  

GE has even moved Aviation employees from West Chester just to qualify for the bare minimum.  Those employees are understandably pissed since they know they're just pawns.  Most of them live in and around West Chester since Aviation HQ is up there and now have a huge commute and pay for parking.  

Edited September 2, 20204 yr by nicker66

21 minutes ago, nicker66 said:

GE has even moved Aviation employees from West Chester just to qualify for the bare minimum.  Those employees are understandably pissed since they know they're just pawns.  Most of them live in and around West Chester since Aviation HQ is up there and now have a huge commute and pay for parking.  

 

Boo-hoo.  If I were a GE Aviation employee, I'd be a lot more upset about the stock's Kodak-like collapse to $6.