Also, it looks like Carter-Dawson is gearing up to design Phase II (it's near the end of the article).

 

3 eateries in limbo at The Banks

 

Written by

Lisa Bernard-Kuhn

 

 

DOWNTOWN – Three restaurants that were set to open at The Banks this summer have hit a financing snag.

 

Openings for Huey’s 24/7 Diner, The Wine Loft and La Crepe Nanou have been delayed since their owner New Orleans-based Doyle Restaurant Group ran into issues with the costs of constructing the interior layout and finishes of each the restaurants, said Trent Germano, vice chair of Carter, the Atlanta-based firm that’s partnering with The Dawson Co. to develop The Banks.

 

“They have run into some pricing gaps in their estimates of fit-out versus actual costs,” said Germano. “It was not anticipated. This is within their realm of financial responsibility.”

 

Officials with The Doyle Group could not be reached early Wednesday.

This sounds suspiciously like "Let's expand real fast to make it look like we have net revenue and worry about it later," and then later came. I'd guess that's the situation rather than "Oh my, we somehow vastly underestimated the price of that hardwood floor."

 

Abigail Street just opened a glorious space in OTR and somehow didn't fumble their estimates.

The day of the chain does seem to be fading. If the growing number of independent restaurants that are figuring out how to make it work in the new economy, maybe the banks should be talking to some local independent restaurants who are looking for a larger or newer space.

^ Agreed!!!  Look, the first thing to open at the banks, which has been incredibly busy, is a local (two locations is not a chain) bar- and it's doing great!

If there is no new construction for the next year or two, why not focus on filling some of the long-abandoned buildings along Third Street? I know it's technically not The Banks, but there are strings of historic yet dilapidated buildings at Third and Race, Third and Main and there's that at least 10-12 story red brick tower at Third and Race that's seemingly been empty for ages.

 

If there is no immediate development imminent at Phase 2 of The Banks, maybe it's time to focus on some of these vacant near-Banks buildings that see plenty Banks- and stadium-related foot traffic outside their front doors.

 

This is one thing I've always wondered about the Banks (and that I tried to articulate earlier).  If you are trying to develop downtown, why are you building new buildings at the Banks when there are a bunch of abandoned buildings (not to mention 8 lanes of traffic and a highway and a hill) separating the Banks from the rest of downtown?  I really don't get it, and every time I walk to Fountain Square or downtown from my apartment at the Banks and pass all of those empty buildings I wonder the same thing.

I can't say for sure but I am of the opinion that Cincy needs to do more with it's riverfront area. Not sure if this development fits that bill or not.

It's easy to forget in 2011 that the original intent of The Banks in the 1990's was to redevelop the riverfront in conjunction with the new stadiums, since a critical mass of land was being created as a result of rebuilding Fort Washington Way. Waterfront urban redevelopment was a big thing in the 90's; for instance Cincinnati often cited Baltimore's Inner Harbor as a model. The realization of everything they planned has obviously taken much longer than anyone anticipated in 1999.

 

Then the riots happened and 3CDC was born, and the port authority was refined, and the concept of developing everything in the river basin under one cohesive vision came out of that.

If there is no new construction for the next year or two, why not focus on filling some of the long-abandoned buildings along Third Street? I know it's technically not The Banks, but there are strings of historic yet dilapidated buildings at Third and Race, Third and Main and there's that at least 10-12 story red brick tower at Third and Race that's seemingly been empty for ages.

 

If there is no immediate development imminent at Phase 2 of The Banks, maybe it's time to focus on some of these vacant near-Banks buildings that see plenty Banks- and stadium-related foot traffic outside their front doors.

 

This is one thing I've always wondered about the Banks (and that I tried to articulate earlier).  If you are trying to develop downtown, why are you building new buildings at the Banks when there are a bunch of abandoned buildings (not to mention 8 lanes of traffic and a highway and a hill) separating the Banks from the rest of downtown?  I really don't get it, and every time I walk to Fountain Square or downtown from my apartment at the Banks and pass all of those empty buildings I wonder the same thing.

 

One main reason----

 

The city can't just come in and "redevelop" privately owned buildings just because they want to... they can, however, lead the development of property on publicly owned land (city and county bought up the riverfront to lead the development).

 

Several empty buildings downtown are being held hostage by banks through foreclosure, being held by property owners from chicago or other far away big cities that have hundreds of towers in their portfolios and are playing a waiting game.  Other properties, like the Bartlett Building & Enquirer building (original on Vine) are empty, slated to possibly become residential, but have no parking and have owners who are in no rush.

 

The only place the city really has control are properties where it owns the land/has a huge influence through financing (3CDC properties).

Local govn't is not powerless to influence the use of land and buildings it doesn't own. Tax law and assumption of liability from private owners can spur private owners to action in surprising way.s

Toby Keith's job fair this week

 

Toby Keith’s I Love This Bar and Grill at The Banks riverfront development is holding a job fair this Friday and Saturday with plans to hire 140 employees.

 

The incoming restaurant and live music venue on Second Street is eyeing a December opening, though no official date was announced Tuesday. The job openings are mostly for servers, bartenders, cooks and other service support staff.

 

The job fair will be held on Friday from 11 a.m. to 6 p.m. and Saturday from 10 a.m. to 4 p.m. in the two-story retail space located at the corner of Freedom Way and Walnut Streets at The Banks.

^Perspective employees: Be prepared to provide great customer service, or else "We'll put a boot in your..."

^Perspective employees: Be prepared to provide great customer service, or else "We'll put a boot in your..."

 

Awesome!  Who is he kid in your avatar?

 

^Perspective employees: Be prepared to provide great customer service, or else "We'll put a boot in your..."

 

Awesome!  Who is he kid in your avatar?

 

 

 

 

They actually blur out his face on the DVDs along with all the other child actors in the commericals. I don't know why.

I moved all that downtown talk to the State of Downtown thread here:

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,1333.600.html

 

It's all really good stuff so I look forward to the discussion continuing over there!

Time for the latest and greatest Banks Monthly Report!

 

Looks like Race St. and Freedom Way West open up tomorrow.

 

http://www.thebankspublicpartnership.com/sites/default/files/IDMA%20October%20Monthly%20Report_FINAL.pdf

 

Crave restaurant to Banks

 

DOWNTOWN – Crave – an American-cuisine restaurant that includes a sushi bar and locally sourced foods – is the latest tenant to join The Banks riverfront development.

 

The Minnesota-based restaurant chain has signed a lease for 8,360 square feet at the northeast corner of Joe Nuxhall Way and Second Street – across from Great American Ball Park, according to developer Atlanta-based Carter. By comparison, the Johnny Rockets location at The Banks is almost 3,000 square feet.

 

The Banks location will be Crave’s eighth, joining existing restaurants in Minnesota, Florida and Nebraska.

 

Crave founder Kam Talebi says he’s hoping to be open at The Banks by May for lunch and dinner.

 

Cont

I've eaten there in Minneapolis.  Good food.

The Banks growing bigger faster

After years of delays, development now well ahead of schedule

4:44 AM, Nov. 27, 2011

Written by

Lisa Bernard-Kuhn

 

 

DOWNTOWN - Developers are preparing to break ground in coming months on hundreds of new riverfront homes and storefronts that will further shape The Banks as the region's newest and largest waterfront neighborhood.

 

New timetables shared exclusively with The Enquirer show plans for doubling the size of residential and retail development already open for occupancy between Paul Brown Stadium and Great American Ball Park.

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20111127/BIZ01/111270319/The-Banks-growing-bigger-faster?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

This is pretty exciting news.  It illustrates two things quite clearly: the way the enormous cost of parking infrastructure has held back the development thus far, and an example in which stimulus funding has actually enabled private activity. 

This is fantastic news. Not only is it good to see there is such demand for space within The Banks, but hopefully it will also show other developers how much demand there is for downtown living. I can easily see this being proof for other developers that being successful in this economy is very much a possibility.

I was actually really looking forward to Huey's 24/7 Diner.  I hope they're able to lure another 24hr tenant.  Downtown NEEDS late night food.

This is pretty exciting news.  It illustrates two things quite clearly: the way the enormous cost of parking infrastructure has held back the development thus far, and an example in which stimulus funding has actually enabled private activity. 

 

And in effect, it shows a simplified greater than 3:1 return on investment for the stimulus.  $27 million for the parking pedestal led to $75 million in construction, followed of course by revenue and further development with retailers, rent, etc.

 

 

What I've found so interesting is that they are saying they want to do 300 apartments in one block.  Remember, Phase 1 has 300 apartments, in TWO blocks. I think it would be GREAT if they did 300 apartments in one block of development.  Any one know what the final height restriction was for residential??  I know there was a lot of back and forth early on. 

 

If they were able to build an 7-8 story development for this entire next block (no office building, etc) I'm sure they could get 300 apartments in.  (I'll talk about design features later on)

 

Personally- I don't think they need to consider any more office space any time soon. With the potential for 250,000 square feet of office space still in Phase 1, combined with many surface lots around town, and moderately high vacancy at our already existing office towers, I don't think this needs to be a component of the Banks development right now.  Perhaps it can be considered again in a phase much further down the line, but not right now.  The only major benefit to the Banks that office space provides, is people to eat at the restaurants at lunch on weekdays.  but I just don't think office space demand exists right now.

 

I DO hope they do something out of the basic box for retail/commercial. We do NOT need more restaurants or bars in this block.  Phase 1 will cover that (there are still more empty locations than full!), and there's the two stand-alone restaurant plots in front of the Freedom Center.  And don't forget the Lager House!

 

I hope they bring in a grocery store, I know it's really unlikely but with 600 units within a 2 minute walk, and several thousand downtown and in covington, Either Phase 2 or Phase 2A (whatever the southern block will be called) would be the time to do it!!

 

However, from their talk about soft goods, it's sounds like they are more likely to go after a clothing store (which I think would fail at this point in the game) instead.

 

IF the Doyle group restaurants fail (which I hope they do, since it looks like their locations are already going under across the country) I hope they consider several one-off new, locally owned places.  Someone needs to take the Carter/Dawson people to 12th and Vine.  Those places are PACKED every night and they are not national chains.  I get that the Banks will have a different feel and development style than OTR, of course, but mixing in a few non-chains would be a great idea.  In fact, the FIRST thing to open, FIRST thing to expand, and first thing to do REALLY well at the Banks was a local bar!!! Then we wait MONTHS for these out of town management groups to try to do something and some may not even happen. 

 

Finally, I hope they build with higher quality and better designs.  I've heard it's loud at the Banks and I wonder how the buildings will hold up over time. We all agree they aren't particularly attractive, and I hope that the C/D people are thoughtful enough to go with a building that looks noticeably different.  Even giving a feel of a different style.  CR Architects has done many varied styles (Architects for phase 1) and I hope that they consider something different for this one!! I don't want replica blocks! These aren't legos!

 

 

Moral of the story- VERY excited/surprised they hope to break ground in the first half of next year ( I didn't think we'd see movement until closer to the deadline) but I hope that they aren't just looking to make a quick buck and that really begin a long term strategy as more blocks open up, and finally that they consider more local places and not these silly national chains.

 

 

That's not really a 3:1 return on investment though because the government doesn't capitalize directly on that investment.  The question that needs to be answered is, how long will it take the government to make back that $27 million in the property taxes, city income taxes, sales taxes, and parking fees (?) the project generates, and will it cover the long-term maintenance cost of the project's municipally-owned infrastructure?  I don't know where the funding came from for the garages, if it was all city, county, or if there were some federal or state dollars involved, nor do I know how the ownership of the garages works, but to say that the project breaks even merely based on private versus public construction costs alone is highly disingenuous. 

Even if the block is just apartments, my guess is it would be tough to get to 300 apartments on this block without going to a 7th or 8th floor.  If you look at a satellite image of the site as it exists now, the apartments take up 2/3 of the main block, and the apartments on the southern block have a larger footprint than the office building and 2-floor corner building.

 

 

That's not really a 3:1 return on investment though because the government doesn't capitalize directly on that investment.  The question that needs to be answered is, how long will it take the government to make back that $27 million in the property taxes, city income taxes, sales taxes, and parking fees (?) the project generates, and will it cover the long-term maintenance cost of the project's municipally-owned infrastructure?  I don't know where the funding came from for the garages, if it was all city, county, or if there were some federal or state dollars involved, nor do I know how the ownership of the garages works, but to say that the project breaks even merely based on private versus public construction costs alone is highly disingenuous. 

 

True- I should have said 3:1 leverage of private funds.  Also, I come from the school of thought that if the government spends $27 million that leads to $100 million in jobs, more development, and better infrastructure, even if it takes the government 20 years to get that $27 million back, it's still a good move. 

 

Better than when the government spends a trillion dollars buying up value-less mortgage backed securities- I don't think that kind of spending creates jobs :)

 

But back on topic... I perhaps should have used the concept of leveraging private investment, instead of ROI

Well, that's one way of looking at it. In a lot of instances, the government rarely has a positive return-on-investment in monetary value.

 

If you view government investments from that perspective, then we have been screwing ourselves for years. National forests, while protecting land from development and managing the natural resources so that it benefits the environment more so than the resources that it can provide, leads to a natural loss of employment and monetary gain - and investment (e.g. timber). In another example, the government helped fund the interstate highway system, which has had a tremendous ROI in terms of the growth that has been generated along those roadways - although that is now less than ever before due to maintenance/legacy costs, congestion and so forth. One can also look at specific states - the state of Kentucky has built over 100 industrial parks, 30 of which have an occupancy rate of 30% or less over a 5 year period. 10 of those are completely vacant, even though expensive infrastructure was required to build them - heck, one had a $15 million bridge constructed over a valley and roads blasted up hillsides to nothing 10 years ago and the project has attracted 0 tenants!

 

In Cincinnati's case, $27 million may have been invested in the parking garages which may never be fully recuperated. Add in parking fees - which will never cover the construction costs alone, maintenance/legacy costs (especially as they age), and some non-use (they will not be near capacity most of the time), and someone could say that it was a bad investment. But it allowed for millions upon millions of private investment above ground to occur, for the riverfront park project to happen (in the stage it is in today), and to attract new visitors and potential residents to a city that had no real front door for decades. Some of that is hard to quantify because a lot of it is so intangible.

The tile work in the stairwells at 2nd & Race and 2nd & Vine looks much better than that of 2nd & Main.

Toby Keith signage is going up:

^signed by Toby Keith so you know its good

My spidey sense tells me that this place is going to fail so, so hard. That has all the street presence of the back end of a bus station.

 

 

Predicting a bird will build a nest in the "o". 

Wow-- That is HIDEOUS and really disappointing.  You'd think they'd put in awnings, and all kinds of new stuff to make it look like a unique storefront.  Really disappointing.

That Toby Keith storefront is unbelievably underwhelming and disappointing. I had high hopes for that space. I'd even be OK with some gaudy neon sign or something to give that block some presence. Even most Hard Rock Cafes have those giant guitars that you can recognize from six blocks away. Everything about this Banks building is lackluster.

 

Even Johnny Rockets has a sign that extends from the building. I assume they'll fill those windows with neon Bud Light signs and so forth, but still. If you aren't specifically looking for it, you'll pass right by. Case in point: we WALKED by that space after the Bengals game on Sunday and didn't so much as notice a thing.

 

Poor, poor design. High school architecture classes could better this in one class period.

Come on Cygnus...the first pics you posted were promising.  That tile work is great and gave me a little glimmer of hope that Phase 2 will be of higher quality than Phase 1.  Then you posted that Toby Keith crap and it reminded me how low the bar was set. 

 

Seriously...that sign above the main entrance looks TERRIBLE.  It's partially the sign's fault but I'm also faulting the vertical lines on the building that make the placement (not centered above the door) look really awkward.

There is NO WAY they are done with exterior improvements.  There has to be awnings or something going up soon.  I mean....

As cheesy as some developments can be, I really liked what Cordish did with Louisville's 4th Street Live. Note the overhanging signage, which would be great for The Banks:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, they could hang an old Cadillac above the front door.

Yeah, they could hang an old Cadillac above the front door.

 

True, that and a mechanical bull (for right inside the window) will probably be on Craigslist soon, if they aren't already.

Come on Cygnus...the first pics you posted were promising.  That tile work is great and gave me a little glimmer of hope that Phase 2 will be of higher quality than Phase 1.  Then you posted that Toby Keith crap and it reminded me how low the bar was set.

 

lol, my bad!  :laugh:

City, county leaders celebrate latest milestone in Cincinnati’s central riverfront transformation

http://www.urbancincy.com/2011/12/city-county-leaders-celebrate-latest-milestone-in-cincinnatis-central-riverfront-transformation/

UrbanCincy.com | Randy A. Simes

December 7, 2011

 

The sixth major portion of Cincinnati’s central riverfront transformation is now finished as city and county leaders celebrate the completion of the new street grid and a 729-space parking garage. The garage will lift the next phase of private development out of the Ohio River’s 100-year flood plain, and the completion of Freedom Way will connect both ends of the massive development.

 

The new parking garage is part of the larger Central Riverfront Garage system that spans five city blocks and makes the area buildable for private development. To date, Carter and Dawson Company has teamed to build an $80 million development that houses 300 apartments and 90,000 square feet of retail space.

 

“My wife and I walk, bike or drive past The Banks construction on a daily basis,” explained downtown condo owner Bob Schwartz. “As big a project as it is daily progress is visible if you see it regularly and I’ve thought it’s had a reasonably good pace considering its scope.”

 

Officials have stated that negotiations are ongoing to bring a hotel to the site, as well as office tenants that would finance a new tower. Aside from the obvious construction progress there are also several other notable features that are now coming online at The Banks.

 

The new Central Riverfront Garage system includes valet parking and accepts credit cards through an electronic payment system. The new garage system has also includes a theme-based navigation setup. For example, sports fans can can see whether they are parked in the Baseball Block (red) or Football Block (orange).

 

All of the exposed garages will eventually be topped with private investment in a manner the development is intimately familiar. By lifting the development out of an undesirable area by garages, the public sector is able to essentially construct building pads for which future development will occur. This approach is very similar to what Carter has used when building out Atlantic Station in Atlanta.

 

The development team expects to start work on the next $75 million phase of development next summer. That portion, which lies immediately west of the National Underground Railroad Freedom Center, is anticipated to include an additional 300 apartments and even more retail space. Prior to that developers may get started on two anchor restaurants to be built in front of the Freedom Center.

 

“Many students are excited for the completion of the development,” said Heights Community Council member and University of Cincinnati student Tim Oliver. “While construction timelines may be adhered to, the public wants what The Banks promises now.”

 

The vast 2,400-space garage system is controlled by Hamilton County and is intended to serve the Cincinnati Reds and Bengals professional sports franchises, while also creating additional parking for future office towers along 3rd Street. The latest phase of public investment was made largely possible by a $23 million grant from the American Recovery & Reinvestment Act.

And here are a couple of photos from Thanksgiving weekend:

 

Next summer buildings will be rising from this location and house hundreds of new residents and dozens of new businesses.

 

I did like that project officials took a thematic approach to designing the massive garage. Will definitely help with wayfinding and placemaking.

^^^Did they paint those panels?  I actually like the orange ones shown here and I remember HATING the blue and green design they had earlier.

^^^Did they paint those panels?  I actually like the orange ones shown here and I remember HATING the blue and green design they had earlier.

 

No. You just saw a photo of a different location where they're different colors. Don't get too attached or upset about any of them though as they're just temporary placeholders until the private development is built atop the remaining garages. This particular area should be covered over in about two years.

Here are a few more photos from the site taken over Thanksgiving weekend.

 

1. Starting to fill in nicely closest to Great American Ball Park.

 

2. View from the Roebling Suspension Bridge with construction work at Smale Riverfront Park progressing in the foreground.

 

3. And here's an odd one that manages to capture all three awkward tourist buses running around the center city - The One For Fun, Holly Jolly Trolley, and the Southbank Shuttle.

Thanks for the shots Randy.  So can we start making up another name for Freedom Way and calling it that.  I can't bring myself to actually say 'Freedom Way' in a real sentence.

 

^ First Street?

Thanks for the shots Randy.  So can we start making up another name for Freedom Way and calling it that.  I can't bring myself to actually say 'Freedom Way' in a real sentence.

 

Would you prefer Opportunity Boulevard or American Triumph Road?

Thanks for the shots Randy.  So can we start making up another name for Freedom Way and calling it that.  I can't bring myself to actually say 'Freedom Way' in a real sentence.

 

Would you prefer Opportunity Boulevard or American Triumph Road?

 

Maybe something like "Rick Perry Drive."

I think it should be Short Pete.  It is technically very close to Pete Rose Way, I'd call it a realigned version similar to how Vine St. was cut up in Clifton.  We colloquially know that as Short Vine, so there's no reason not to use Short Pete to refer to the street in question.

^ Sorry, sounds too much like a penis reference.