April 26, 200619 yr i am SO sick of this shit. this is preventing people like me from moving there when I get a job possibly.
April 26, 200619 yr To be honest, I wouldn't mind seeing things slow down on the Banks. It's far more important to do this thing right rather than quickly. The reason this thing is so hot right now is because Heimlich & DeWine are trying their damndest to "reduce county expenditure" which is a euphemism for getting as many current expenses off of the county books as fast as possible, which is why they are trying to sell Drake Hospital for example. Have these guys (and one has to also ask, has City Council?) figured out who their market for the Banks is? I would say that the people they are trying to attract to live down there should have at least these characteristics: 1) People who are going to work in the City (preferably downtown or Clifton) 2) People who are going to use the stadiums (particularly the Reds ballpark) 3) People who are going to use the new Riverfront Park. You want the first group because if they live and work in the City, they are going to be more likely to shop (and play, which swings into #3) there. If you want downtown to be a vital retail center, you've got to have local shoppers. In addition, the more space you rent to commuters in the new parking garages who live outside of the city but work downtown, the better. As for the #'s 2 & 3, what's the point of building these new things if they aren't going to get used? Ault Park is one of the benefits of living in Mt. Lookout- likewise with the new Riverfront Park. I'm not sure how you can seriously plan a whole new urban neighborhood that is supposed to encourage people to live and work downtown without giving those people some legitimate public transit. I don't see how a serious Banks plan can be conceived without it. The guys who laid out all the old incline lines had an amusement center of sorts (Highland House, Bellevue House, etc.) at the end of all their streetcar lines for a reason. Here we are trying to build the amusement venue without a serious way to get to it.
April 26, 200619 yr I believe that this project WILL happen no matter what. This will happen in either a collaborative way or a secular way...either way it WILL happen. As for your predictions of a couple two-story brick bldgs., I believe that you will be way off. From what I heard at a meeting with developers (down at the Freedom Center) it sounds as if they want to build more intensively than what was originally envisioned (8 story bldgs.) I would venture to say that you will see some bldgs. up an running by 2008. As for the completion of the entire project I would say 2010...2012 (not 2015). 2008?? You have GOT to be joking. It took them how long just to get FSW done, and that ended up as nothing more than a nondescript building with a few stores? It started out to be the tallest building in Cincinnati, so don't expect me to share your optimism about the Banks. At this point, I'm ready to call it "the joke that never was."
April 26, 200619 yr Related to the above story: Banks recommendation delayed BY KIMBALL PERRY | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER A recommendation Hamilton County commissioners expected to receive today on which company should be selected to develop The Banks has been delayed... E-mail [email protected] http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060426/NEWS01/304260011/1056/rss02
April 28, 200619 yr City, county meet about Banks; no pact imminent BY MARLA MATZER ROSE AND KIMBALL PERRY | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITERS City and Hamilton County leaders met Thursday morning at Great American Ball Park, still trying to agree on development of the Banks. Cincinnati Mayor Mark Mallory and Hamilton County Commission President Phil Heimlich were joined by representatives from their respective governments in a meeting Mallory characterized as another in a long series... http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060428/NEWS01/604280395/1056
April 28, 200619 yr Lets just lay out the people on the different sides of the argument here: City of Cincinnati (Mayor, City Council), Cincinnati Port Authority, 3CDC (almost every corporate big-wig in Cincinnati USA) v. Hamilton County I just dont understand why the county still feels the need to do this alone. Look at the great success 3CDC has had with Fountain Square! Why not allow these global business leaders to take a look at the deal and help with the process? This would make far to much business/common sense for the county! There are what, 800K+ people in Hamilton county? 300K+ people in the city of Cincinnati? I suspect if you want to hold county-wide office, appealing to the anti-city sentiment of 63% of your constituents is probably fairly good politics... At least the pressure's still on. This is a much more encouraging time than, say, a year ago. Folks are really actually talking about it now, and the best posture is wanting to get it done (albeit in your own way), not wanting to obstruct it...
April 28, 200619 yr Reds try to get Banks moving By Joe Wessels Post contributor A week that began with high-profile business executives trying to get the city and county to break their impasse over development of The Banks is ending with another set of high-profile brokers: Reds owners Bob Castellini and Tom Williams. The two - who are part of a group that bought controlling interest in the Reds last fall - met Thursday with key figures from both the county and city, urging them to submit their dispute to mediation... http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060428/NEWS01/604280343/1010/RSS01
April 28, 200619 yr Cincinnati Reds CEO Bob Castellini and fellow Reds executive Tom Williams helped facilitate the meeting. Castellini is on the board of the Cincinnati Center City Development Corp, which was overseeing the Banks project before the county assumed control last summer. Williams and his father, Bill, are on the board of Western-Southern Financial Group, which is vying with several other firms to develop the $600 million Banks project through one of its subsidiaries. What the f&$*!?? Are you kidding me? This is just shows how incestuous this town is. A meeting to facilitate and broker the selection is being mediated and called by a board member in a supposedly "competitive" process to gain development rights. Tom Williams being present at this meeting could not have been any more blatant...Obviously he is trying to facilitate an agreement that would award this job to the company whose board he sits on.
May 1, 200619 yr Analysis: Scope of Banks may grow dramatically, adding 50 percent more Cincinnati Business Courier - April 28, 2006by Lucy May, Dan MonkSenior Staff Reporters Hamilton County has dramatically expanded its buildout plan for The Banks riverfront development project, adding 700,000 square feet of real estate to the development program contemplated in the 12 blocks south of Fort Washington Way. The new numbers are included in a financial analysis prepared by PFM Group, which has served as the county's financial adviser for more than a decade and was the chief architect of the stadium financing plan... http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2006/05/01/story3.html
May 1, 200619 yr ^750 units averaging 1,950 square feet each at an average price of just under half a million. The residential component of The Banks will not be successful on this model. Especially with all the other condo towers along the river, there aren't enough buyers that would consider downtown living at that price. No way.
May 1, 200619 yr ^750 units averaging 1,950 square feet each at an average price of just under half a million. The residential component of The Banks will not be successful on this model. Especially with all the other condo towers along the river, there aren't enough buyers that would consider downtown living at that price. No way. You think so? The Montgomery Inn banquet center (future condo site) already has a waiting list that just topped 1,000.
May 1, 200619 yr ^ Is that a waiting list, or is that the number of people who requested information?
May 1, 200619 yr Analysis: Scope of Banks may grow dramatically, adding 50 percent more Cincinnati Business Courier - April 28, 2006by Lucy May, Dan MonkSenior Staff Reporters The new numbers are included in a financial analysis prepared by PFM Group, which has served as the county's financial adviser for more than a decade and was the chief architect of the stadium financing plan. http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2006/05/01/story3.html We're going to need PFM to complete this project - Pure Freak'n Magic!
May 1, 200619 yr ^ Is that a waiting list, or is that the number of people who requested information? that has to be information requests...which makes sense because they sure are keeping that thing in the dark
May 1, 200619 yr There's a big difference between the number of people who request information and the number who sign contracts. Plus, The Banks will (likely) be coming online after the Montgomery Inn project is completed and sold. I remain skeptical. If the average price were closer to $300k and the average square footage closer to 1,250-1,500, I would not be skeptical.
May 1, 200619 yr Yes, I believe I am one of those 1,000+ people that requested information. For example, does the "waiting list" come from sites like this: http://www.downtownliving.com/riverfront.html, which provide no information about prices, square footage, etc?
May 1, 200619 yr I don't read this thread very often, but does it appear that this project will start soon or has it already.
May 1, 200619 yr gotribe, Development of The Banks has not begun. Political turf wars between city and county are still being hashed out, and there is a $30M financing gap.
May 1, 200619 yr Sorry, to not make myself clear. Yes, of course it is information request. Come on guys ... use that CS! ;) jk! Meaning that is people know " ... The condos would range from $450,000 to $2 million ..." and they have over 1,000 people request info on the project then I do not personally feel that there will be a problem selling 750 on the hottest piece of land in southwestern Ohio. http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051105/BIZ01/511050335
May 1, 200619 yr Why cant any housing downtown be reasonably priced? If its not an outragous price then it is usually a dump. Now I am generalizing a little but I am growing tired of all these new developments being 500,000 and up. Why isnt 200,000-300,000 doable? Overall I am very glad that they are increasing the size of the project! It was too small before IMO.
May 1, 200619 yr I don't know, I think now there biting off more than they can chew. Plus, help me out here. If the CITY own's the air-rights, how can the COUNTY decide to increase the project? Are they talking about more height or taking away from the park? And could the fact that their talking about the CITY's TIF mean that their close to a compromise?
May 2, 200619 yr I thought one of the Twain's or Captain's or Boatswain's Landings or Crossings or Sinkings was supposed to have some more moderate units, like the low $100K's...anyone remember?
May 2, 200619 yr Looks like 189-579K on Captain's Watch. I must say that I like almost everything Towne does, and I do not know how I missed this but with all the development they have changed Eastern Avenue to Riverside Drive, which sounds a little nicer. I actually saw a new street sign by Twain's Point. http://www.towneprop.com/captainswatch/
May 2, 200619 yr Wow - I should have looked at the listings because the range is deceiving. There is only one model at 189K, and it is 1 br, 1 and 1/2 bath, and only 992 sq ft. These are definitely pricey, and they quickly move to the 400-500k range. From the results of Captain's Watch there seems to be a market though. I do agree they need more in the 200-250 range that are nice, especially a high rise. The thing we seem to hear a lot is that development is expensive in and near the CBD so they need to cover that I guess.
May 2, 200619 yr Vets propose memorial at the Banks Ask council for site, but no money BY DAN KLEPAL | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER Ron Ferrier came to Cincinnati City Council with an unusual request Monday: He asked the city's Economic Development Committee to support his idea of building a veterans memorial on the plot directly south of the Underground Railroad Freedom Center. But what made Ferrier's request unusual is what he didn't ask for - money... http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060502/NEWS01/605020354
May 2, 200619 yr Bureaucracy in action looks just so appalling...I completely understand the hesitancy - I mean, they can't get anything agreed on, and now promising sites to folks, no matter how much they and their constituents might want it done, is a complication nobody needs right now - but Jesus, does it look bad. It's amazing politicians are ever re-elected...
May 3, 200619 yr Get used to it it's here to stay. If this were private land cranes would already be up but of course being in a flood plain and proposing a development that needs probably at least 10:1 parking doesn't help.
May 3, 200619 yr Deal on the Banks? BY KIMBALL PERRY AND CLIFF PEALE | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITERS Hamilton County and Cincinnati officials have called a 5 p.m. news conference to make a major announcement on the Banks. The announcement comes after several days of closed-door meetings between the county and city and Reds owners Bob Castellini and Tom Williams. Castellini and Williams were attempting to mediate an impasse between the two governments that has stalled the proposed $600 million commercial, retail and residential neighborhood between the two riverfront sports stadiums... www.enquirer.com
May 3, 200619 yr If Dude can deliver both the best record in baseball and a city/county partnership that actually gets The Banks done, I think deification and the sacrifice of a few vestal virgins will be in order.
May 3, 200619 yr I like this Castellini guy so far - he seems to have more than just a business interest in this town. He has passion for baseball and the city it seems... Hopefully something good comes of this, and I won't have to eat my words anytime soon :).
May 3, 200619 yr The city and county have finally worked it out!!!!!!!!!!! The two have agreed to create a five member committee that will collectively pick a developer and oversee the project. The group will be known as the "Banks Working Group". Early members of this group are: Bob Castellini, and a member to be appointed by Castellini and Mayor Mallory. This leaves two positions still on the table (this is what I take out of it at least). Either way it is a great day in Cincinnati. I would imagine a developer to be selected in the very near future and that developer would, most likely, start the project ASAP seeing as how the sooner they get it done the sooner they start making some big money. :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
May 3, 200619 yr Here is a better news source that has more information..... City, county reach Banks agreement Cincinnati Business Courier - 5:58 PM EDT Wednesday The city of Cincinnati and the Hamilton County Commissioners are forming the "Banks Working Group" to resolve key issues relating to the development of The Banks project on Cincinnati's riverfront... cincinnati.bizjournals.com
May 3, 200619 yr I'm very glad that this has happened. Castellini is my hero. However... I think the penultimate paragraph is crucial. "Heimlich said controversial issues related to the use of tax increment financing and parking revenue will be left to the Banks Working Group to resolve." We're not out of the woods just yet. So, what will happen first: the Reds make the playoffs or construction begins at the Banks?
May 3, 200619 yr So, what will happen first: the Reds make the playoffs or construction begins at the Banks? My prediction will be that both will happen at the same time. ;) As soon as Adam Dunn hits a homer that wins us a playoff position the shovels will come down with the first piece of dirt being overturned! ;)
May 3, 200619 yr At the risk of being overly optimistic....I will say that some, not all, of the construction will begin this summer. When I attended one of the developers presentations they stated that should they be selected they would begin moving forward immediatly. I dont feel that the selection is far off (maybe a week or two) and would then result is progress shortly there after. Hopefully.......
May 4, 200619 yr If this gets moving quickly now it will underscore how petty and ineffective our leaders have been for the past 10 years (since the sales tax passed). I am happy to see signs of progress, but the missed opportunity and additional cost is borderline criminal - and the whole delay will have been over a simple power struggle.
May 4, 200619 yr Hmmmm. A deal brokered by the Castellini and Tom Williams, head of Western Southern affiliate North American Properties and son of former Western Southern CEO Bill Williams? Western Southern also the parent of Eagle Realty, one of the developers vying in the county process. The new committee controlled by virtually by the Reds (Castillini, an appointment that is at the sole discretion of Castellini, 3CDC board (on which Castellini sits, along with John Barrett, CEO of Western Southern-- Mario San Marco, president of Western Southern affiliate and applicant for master developer Eagle Realty sits on a key 3CDC committee). Tally- Western Southern/Eagle prinicipals/family members/affiliates/business partners- 3 votes, County/City-2 votes. I know it's nice that there is an agreement and we can all sit around the campfire holding hands and singing "We are the World", but all that occurred today was the behind the scenes boondoggle to hand this project to Western Southern/Eagle and the rest of the Fourth Street interests who created this mess by putting the ballpark in the wrong place (Riverfront) to begin with, missing the one golden opportunity to revitalize the urban core by placing it at Broadway Commons. And keep in mind, if my cynicism is justified and Eagle is in fact coronated as master developer, I hope they deliver on this project, unlike the beautiful Nordstrom, er parking lot, on Race Street. I hope I'm wrong about the motives here, but I'm skeptical.
May 4, 200619 yr City, county bust deadlock Joint committee to make plans for Banks BY KIMBALL PERRY, MARLA MATZER ROSE AND DAN KLEPAL | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITERS In a deal brokered by the Reds' new owners, Hamilton County and the city of Cincinnati agreed Wednesday to resolve their differences over the proposed $600 million Banks project. The governments will create a new five-member entity that will make all major decisions on the stalled riverfront development... http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060504/NEWS01/605040333/1077
May 4, 200619 yr One point left unclear after the announcement was whether the working group's meetings would be public. Mallory said after the news conference that he doesn't think the working group would be public, arguing that Ohio's open meetings law doesn't apply to the group because it will only make recommendations. "It would be very, very difficult to make the kinds of decisions they'll make in an open process," he said. Among those decisions is how to spend about $100 million in tax dollars. OPEN MEETINGS But Enquirer editor and vice president Tom Callinan said it's vital for the meetings to be public. "We're pleased the city and county made progress on this important development, but we'll insist that these meetings be public," he said. "They must be open because taxpayers are paying for it." I couldn't disagree more. Let them meet in private, hash out the compromises, and then present solved problems to the commissioners and council. Then the commissioners and council can meet in public, hash through the plans line by line if they want, and they'll decide how to spend the money and dispose of valued property, all in public, all above board. But good lord, it doesn't matter what group of people you pick, if they have to work out compromises in public, it's gonna be just as stalled as ever. Mr. Enquirer Dude, I know a continuing mudhole will be a better drum to beat in your paper over the next ten years than a successful project, especially since it's Cincinnati development, which we all know is inferior to Northern Kentucky development - but please, don't shoot your silver bullet and kill the best hope we have - there are still some of us who actually love this city and actually want to see this frickin' succeed already...aargh...
May 4, 200619 yr well i think this is great news. castellini has proved to be a no nonsense get it done leader...but who's to say he'll really have the ability to push members of the city and county when needed. its not like he can just fire them. as for the western and southern thing...i tend to think the opposite is true. is that not a fragrant conflict of interest? how can a member of a bidding group be involved with some of these decisions? i dont know. i guess we'll just have to wait and see...again
May 4, 200619 yr Heimlich must be the most ignorant A-hole on the face of the planet, can you believe he said this? He is the one that has been f'ing the whole thing up for a year or so! What did he spearhead? He is the one who drove this thing to the point that it took a business leader to come in and sit his ass in a corner to get a deal done. "Spearheading the Banks project has been a risk, and now the risk has paid off," Heimlich said at the conference called to announce that the city and county officials had at last agreed on a way to move forward. Panel to direct Banks project By Joe Wessels Post contributor Getting the Banks project off the ground will now be in the hands of a five-member panel. The agreement to turn the riverfront development project over to the Banks Working Group, as the five-member panel is being called, was hailed as the breakthrough needed to get the long-stalled project moving... http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060504/NEWS01/605040365
May 4, 200619 yr RiverViewer...dead on with that last paragraph you wrote. It needed to be said. As far as the Heimlich comment goes, I agree with you, CK. Heimlich did everything in his power to stoke the fires of conflict and came damn close to killing the deal. His involvement in this development is a cancer that will suck off all of the positive work of many individuals working in the best interests of this city, and will do nothing but hinder its growth. He needs to shut up for a while and let someone else talk/act. I can not wait for David Pepper to trounce this fucker in November.
May 5, 200619 yr I can not wait for David Pepper to trounce this fucker in November. A-goddamn-men...I'm glad he's not mayor, but I'd LOVE to see him on the county commission...
May 5, 200619 yr Quote I can not wait for David Pepper to trounce this fucker in November. A-goddamn-men...I'm glad he's not mayor, but I'd LOVE to see him on the county commission... He has definitely got my vote!
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