Not till spring 2017...does it really take that long to build a 7 story hotel?

 

And a grocery store sounds real nice. It's crazy to think that Cincinnati might actually become a real city where people actually work and live, and not something that just people from Mason visit to see a Bengals game or a Reds game

 

Did I really just read this on Urban Ohio?  I don't have the numbers handy, but there are tens of thousands of people who live within one mile of Fountain Square, and even more that work there.  If you don't think this is a "real city" but instead is just somewhere people from Mason go to sporting events, I can only guess you haven't actually been downtown recently. 

 

Yeah the people are there, but the amenities aren't.  That's part of why it doesn't quiet feel like a "real city" yet - most well developed urban places have a lot more retail and at least one urban style grocery store.  Though I guess part of the problem is retail usually follows people if there aren't incentives to come down first.

Does phase III include the area between Elm and Race?

Phase 3 would be just south of phase 2. Everything west of that is later phases. With phase 3 we'd have a 2 block by 3 block area nearly built out.

From the Enquirer:

 

No one seems to be covering this in detail, but they also announced that a "small out lot" has a contract signed.  Does everyone agree that is almost certainly referring to the mirror lot of Yard House?

 

 

No one seems to be covering this in detail, but they also announced that a "small out lot" has a contract signed.  Does everyone agree that is almost certainly referring to the mirror lot of Yard House?

 

 

 

Yes I read somewhere that that's exactly what that is.

Any ideas to the tenant?  I'm actually hoping that this is a more family friendly establishment.  As cheesy as it is, having one place that families feel drawn to means more draw to the park and vice versa.  It doesn't have to be a crappy chain, but something that's a little less sports bar and a little more mid-priced destination restaurant would be good at the Banks to check off that sub-market.  I was in Louisville 2 weeks ago and we walked past the Old Spaghetti factory (just an example, not calling for one at the banks!). As much as I would never want to eat at one, it was large, packed, and had a 2 hour wait- and much of the people standing outside waiting were families with grandma or kids in tow.  Maybe it doesn't go in this lot, but I hope phase 2 doesn't fill up with just more bars aimed at attracting drunk suburbanites...

There had been talk from the county about trying to do the next parking garage from Vine to Elm instead of Vine to Race along the south side of Freedom Way. I guess they decided to scale that back to just that block then.

Yeah I think that's the only portion that would make any sense at this point. There's another out lot that'll eventually be south of Phase 3 (similar to the location of Moerlein just on the other side) but that won't be around for a bit. Sounds like that empty spot in front of the Undergound Museum will be filled. I wonder what plans there are for the grass section in the middle. I know they've had various ideas in the past for how to use that but I haven't heard anything in a while.

There had been talk from the county about trying to do the next parking garage from Vine to Elm instead of Vine to Race along the south side of Freedom Way. I guess they decided to scale that back to just that block then.

 

Correct. THey wanted to do it as a combined project.  But... That would have required about $10 million each from the City & the County... Doing it this way, the project funds itself with TIF financing (Phase 1 payments in lieu of taxes fund debt of the next garage). City & County were not interested in putting up that much more money yet.

I know phase 3 of The Banks has been a concern for Mike Brown.  He’s concerned about his season ticketholders’ ability to tailgate east of PBS.  Let me just say I’m not at all concerned with Mike Brown, but I am concerned about a great game day experience outside the stadium.  Has anyone thrown out ideas to make game days east of PBS tailgate-able? 

 

I would love to see the city rent out areas of a certain dimension in both the park’s grassy areas along with some of the streets that are blocked off during game days.  I’m thinking a scene like “The Grove” at Ole Miss!

 

I know phase 3 of The Banks has been a concern for Mike Brown.  He’s concerned about his season ticketholders’ ability to tailgate east of PBS.  Let me just say I’m not at all concerned with Mike Brown, but I am concerned about a great game day experience outside the stadium.  Has anyone thrown out ideas to make game days east of PBS tailgate-able? 

 

I would love to see the city rent out areas of a certain dimension in both the park’s grassy areas along with some of the streets that are blocked off during game days.  I’m thinking a scene like “The Grove” at Ole Miss!

 

 

I've tailgated at PBS before so I'm not exactly a hater, but what were fans really expecting when they proposed a riverfront football stadium downtown with development surrounding it? That's a high-profile urban spot, not appropriate for picnicking out the back of your car in a parking lot. This is the core of a lower-tier global economic center, not a rural college campus.

There are still quite a bit of tail-gate friendly lots south of PBS as well as surrounding longworth hall to the west of the stadium. And the park/bars/restaurants adds a lot more to do before and after games than just tailgating.

 

Im sure some people will get bent out of shape about it but adding hundreds of residents and workers wins out.

Any ideas to the tenant?  I'm actually hoping that this is a more family friendly establishment.  As cheesy as it is, having one place that families feel drawn to means more draw to the park and vice versa.  It doesn't have to be a crappy chain, but something that's a little less sports bar and a little more mid-priced destination restaurant would be good at the Banks to check off that sub-market.  I was in Louisville 2 weeks ago and we walked past the Old Spaghetti factory (just an example, not calling for one at the banks!). As much as I would never want to eat at one, it was large, packed, and had a 2 hour wait- and much of the people standing outside waiting were families with grandma or kids in tow.  Maybe it doesn't go in this lot, but I hope phase 2 doesn't fill up with just more bars aimed at attracting drunk suburbanites...

 

My bar for family-friendly is pretty low (No strippers? No gunfire? Chicken tenders on the menu? Check!). But really, what isn't family-friendly about Moerlein, the frozen yogurt place, all the fountains, the park, and the carousel? Does a family-friendly place need to have mediocre food? Clowns? Bibles? Ponies?

 

Let's not forget that this city was built by families that bought their children mini beer steins on their birthday to take with them to the beer halls in OTR. Somehow we all survived.

I’m not quite sure you're catching my drift.  Of course development of The Banks trumps tailgating in a surface lot.  I’m talking about creating a great urban festive scene.  Check out images of The Grove at Ole Miss.  The term tailgating is used liberally there.  People set up tailgating tents in the middle of a quadrangle in campus with no cars, trucks, etc.  It is packed and is considered one of the best pre/post game experiences in all of football.

 

The City of Cincinnati could do the same in Smale by renting out spaces.

Well, for true tailgaters there are plenty of lots west and north of the stadium that are better suited than D lot anyway...

 

No back to those "very friendly 50 year olds"...

Now back to those "very friendly 50 year olds"...

 

Sorry, no titillating follow-up...with this carload at least. 

 

 

 

 

I’m not quite sure you're catching my drift.  Of course development of The Banks trumps tailgating in a surface lot.  I’m talking about creating a great urban festive scene.  Check out images of The Grove at Ole Miss.  The term tailgating is used liberally there.  People set up tailgating tents in the middle of a quadrangle in campus with no cars, trucks, etc.  It is packed and is considered one of the best pre/post game experiences in all of football.

 

The City of Cincinnati could do the same in Smale by renting out spaces.

 

No I think that's actually a great idea. They could even auction them off every year and give the funds to the parks department. The problem is that Smale Park is turning out to be heavily programmed, ie, there isn't a lot of blank grassy space similar to a college quad. That's appropriate for the urban space that it occupies. I just don't know where they would put a bunch of tailgater tents.

I’m not quite sure you're catching my drift.  Of course development of The Banks trumps tailgating in a surface lot.  I’m talking about creating a great urban festive scene.  Check out images of The Grove at Ole Miss.  The term tailgating is used liberally there.  People set up tailgating tents in the middle of a quadrangle in campus with no cars, trucks, etc.  It is packed and is considered one of the best pre/post game experiences in all of football.

 

The City of Cincinnati could do the same in Smale by renting out spaces.

 

No I think that's actually a great idea. They could even auction them off every year and give the funds to the parks department. The problem is that Smale Park is turning out to be heavily programmed, ie, there isn't a lot of blank grassy space similar to a college quad. That's appropriate for the urban space that it occupies. I just don't know where they would put a bunch of tailgater tents.

 

I think it's be better to just shut down all of Front Street Freedom Way from Walnut to the stadium and let that function as a tailgate space. The big plaza in front of the Freedom Center would work well for public tents or stalls, and people could rent out parking spaces along the street. By then, the whole area should be an open container district, anyway.

I hope that the building(s) that go in next to the yard house are a little more substantial than just 1 story restaurants. That is such a prime location. I work by the purple people bridge and think that being on the riverfront is a huge asset in my life. I would need a substantial raise to leave such a wonderful location.

 

If the city and county stay patient and market the area effectively (want your employees to have a good work-life balance and get fresh air? want to be near fun after-work hours events?) then there should be companies clamoring to move into office space on the river with a year or two. especially once GE settles in.

The spot next to Yard house will have the same limitations as Yard House. The intention was to allow for the Freedom Center to be able to look over the buildings to the riverfront. Normally I'm not a fan of short buildings in urban environments but in this case I don't mind. A couple short out buildings with nice park space in between help frame the view out from the rear of the Freedom Center. We'll have larger buildings throughout The Banks to make up for a couple of small plots having 1-2 story buildings.

The spot next to Yard house will have the same limitations as Yard House. The intention was to allow for the Freedom Center to be able to look over the buildings to the riverfront. Normally I'm not a fan of short buildings in urban environments but in this case I don't mind. A couple short out buildings with nice park space in between help frame the view out from the rear of the Freedom Center. We'll have larger buildings throughout The Banks to make up for a couple of small plots having 1-2 story buildings.

 

Why would the intention for the Freedom Center to be able to look over buildings?  If it was a river view it was supposed to have, then it should've been built next to the park so there would be nothing to block its view of the river.  The Freedom Center is not a tall building, it's actually very small and anything you build would block its view.  Therefore anything that is built South of the Freedom Center could be any size.   

It's hardly small. It's not much shorter than the Phase 1 apartment buildings. And being able to see across the river (where freedom didn't exist) was always part of the plan. Originally the block south had zero buildings on it and the two out lots were added into the scheme later. Original master plans show the curves of the walls continuing in the form of pathways into that block which was entirely park.

The spot next to Yard house will have the same limitations as Yard House. The intention was to allow for the Freedom Center to be able to look over the buildings to the riverfront. Normally I'm not a fan of short buildings in urban environments but in this case I don't mind. A couple short out buildings with nice park space in between help frame the view out from the rear of the Freedom Center. We'll have larger buildings throughout The Banks to make up for a couple of small plots having 1-2 story buildings.

 

Why would the intention for the Freedom Center to be able to look over buildings?  If it was a river view it was supposed to have, then it should've been built next to the park so there would be nothing to block its view of the river.  The Freedom Center is not a tall building, it's actually very small and anything you build would block its view.  Therefore anything that is built South of the Freedom Center could be any size.   

 

Why would you block the view of arguably the best looking and most architecturally significant building on the riverfront with a larger building? I think the one story buildings that were planned for the site are perfectly fine because they still allow the Freedom Center visibility while activating the space between it and the Roebling.  The outdoor deck on the second or third floor of the FC (where the eternal flame is located) has a wonderful view of the river, which is is pretty powerful and important to the institution, as the Ohio was the line between slavery and freedom.

 

As much as I would like to see more taller buildings in the CBD, you've gotta keep in mind that The Banks was never intended to be a neighborhood with very tall buildings. It was always supposed to slope down towards the riverfront so that everyone would have a nice view. That's why the new AC Hotel will have a section that's only two stories, so that it doesn't block the apartments' view of the river.  Let's build out The Banks then focus on getting some super-tall structures built on some of those parking lots in the CBD.

Question for you guys, when do you think the Highway Caps will be dealt with?

 

I know there were talks early last year about a design competition, but I don't know whats the latest with that.

I wouldn't expect to see anything regarding those until after The Banks is fully built and proven successful. And a different mayor is in place who isn't trying to pit the success of Downtown against the rest of the city as if they are entirely separate entities.

In 2028

Am I the only one who doesn't care if they're covered? The bridges we currently have are actually quite pleasant to walk over.

I think once The Banks are built out it'll be less of an issue, but at the moment there's a distinct line where Downtown stops and the waterfront begins. There's essentially zero connection between The Banks and the rest of the city. It could definitely be worse, but building some buildings over top of the highway would go a long way towards linking the two.

The main difference will be sound, not visual.  The "caps" will cap the wash of expressway traffic which causes more of a break than does the visual break. 

There is currently a huge separation between the Banks and CBD. Physically but also mentally. I work down there and I rarely ever grab lunch at the banks because it seems so far away when you have to walk over a highway in addition to 2nd and 3rd street. The caps would make a big difference, not to mention that they could put those caps to good use.

In terms of connecting downtown and the Banks, we should keep pushing to make 2nd and 3rd Streets more pedestrian friendly. Bump outs at the crosswalks would go a long way to making those intersections feel more suited to walking. Landscaping could also help a lot to make those streets more inviting. In just the last year, the city planted a row of bald cypress saplings along 2nd Street, which will - one day - provide more of a buffer between 2nd Street and Fort Washington Way. On the southern side of 3rd Street, there are two rows of trees which create a nice canopy over the sidewalk, providing an excellent visual buffer between 3rd Street and Fort Washington Way. But the northern side of 3rd Street and the southern side of 2nd Street have basically no landscaping. Planting street trees there would help a lot to narrow the gap. The bridges over FWW are already quite nicely landscaped, though I'd like to see some taller trees planted in those raised beds. 

It wouldn't hurt if the CPD actually policed these two streets. I cross them daily and most people drive well over 35mph, speed limit is 25mph, and at rush hour there are so many that race through yellow/red lights.

 

The most I've seen recently was during the lead up to a Reds game. An officer was standing at the SE corner of the 2nd & Walnut intersection enforcing the not a crosswalk signs and a bike cop was riding on the sidewalk, weaving through the pedestrians.

^The best way to fix that is to replace one or two lanes from 2nd and 3rd street with bike lanes, parking, wider sidewalks, etc. and put a crosswalk on all sides of those intersections.  There is absolutely no need for 2nd and 3rd to function as highways.

^The best way to fix that is to replace one or two lanes from 2nd and 3rd street with bike lanes, parking, wider sidewalks, etc. and put a crosswalk on all sides of those intersections.  There is absolutely no need for 2nd and 3rd to function as highways.

 

Correct. One of my biggest complaints is the whole "no-crosswalk" on certain sides of the intersection (e.g. East side of Walnut and 2d) . God forbid that someone turning left trying to race home vis the expressway would have to be held up for a pedestrian. It's a stadia district for Chrissakes.

The total chaos seen on 2nd and 3rd after big events could be completely eliminated by forcing any and all traffic that finds its way onto Second onto I-71, Columbia Parkway, and I-471.  Don't let these idiots either turn into The Banks or cross over to Third or into Downtown.  Doing this for 15 minutes after each game would quickly end the nonsense that lingers on for 30-45 minutes after every Bengals game and big Reds games that end in a walk-off.   

^The best way to fix that is to replace one or two lanes from 2nd and 3rd street with bike lanes, parking, wider sidewalks, etc. and put a crosswalk on all sides of those intersections.  There is absolutely no need for 2nd and 3rd to function as highways.

 

Correct. One of my biggest complaints is the whole "no-crosswalk" on certain sides of the intersection (e.g. East side of Walnut and 2d) . God forbid that someone turning left trying to race home vis the expressway would have to be held up for a pedestrian. It's a stadia district for Chrissakes.

 

I have no clue why this exists, and frankly its broken all the time.  Shame Cincy has leadership who doesn't care at all about these issues right now.

^The best way to fix that is to replace one or two lanes from 2nd and 3rd street with bike lanes, parking, wider sidewalks, etc. and put a crosswalk on all sides of those intersections.  There is absolutely no need for 2nd and 3rd to function as highways.

 

Correct. One of my biggest complaints is the whole "no-crosswalk" on certain sides of the intersection (e.g. East side of Walnut and 2d) . God forbid that someone turning left trying to race home vis the expressway would have to be held up for a pedestrian. It's a stadia district for Chrissakes.

 

I have no clue why this exists, and frankly its broken all the time.  Shame Cincy has leadership who doesn't care at all about these issues right now.

 

It is because the neighborhoods feel slighted, duh...  :-D :lol: 8-)

^The best way to fix that is to replace one or two lanes from 2nd and 3rd street with bike lanes, parking, wider sidewalks, etc. and put a crosswalk on all sides of those intersections.  There is absolutely no need for 2nd and 3rd to function as highways.

 

Correct. One of my biggest complaints is the whole "no-crosswalk" on certain sides of the intersection (e.g. East side of Walnut and 2d) . God forbid that someone turning left trying to race home vis the expressway would have to be held up for a pedestrian. It's a stadia district for Chrissakes.

 

I have no clue why this exists, and frankly its broken all the time.  Shame Cincy has leadership who doesn't care at all about these issues right now.

 

There was absolutely nothing other than Paul Brown Stadium and its 10 events per year south of Fort Washington Way when it was first completed in 2000.  The Freedom Center didn't open until about 2003 and the first phase of The Banks didn't open until 2011.  Those no crossing signs are leftover from that time. 

 

Also the whole point of the Fort Washington Way rebuild was for 2nd and 3rd St. to become on and off ramps for downtown, with on-street parking AND one lane reserved for the "I-71" light rail line studied by OKI in 1997-98. Part of the problem with the configuration is that the 3rd St. to I-75 N connection was never built and so the confusion of event traffic is greatly exaggerated by people traveling up to 4th St. in order to get onto 75 north.  That ramp won't be finished until the Brent Spence Bridge replacement is built. 

^The best way to fix that is to replace one or two lanes from 2nd and 3rd street with bike lanes, parking, wider sidewalks, etc. and put a crosswalk on all sides of those intersections.  There is absolutely no need for 2nd and 3rd to function as highways.

 

Correct. One of my biggest complaints is the whole "no-crosswalk" on certain sides of the intersection (e.g. East side of Walnut and 2d) . God forbid that someone turning left trying to race home vis the expressway would have to be held up for a pedestrian. It's a stadia district for Chrissakes.

 

I have no clue why this exists, and frankly its broken all the time.  Shame Cincy has leadership who doesn't care at all about these issues right now.

 

Two of these "no crosswalk" intersections exist on 2nd St. The reason (whether right or wrong) is because the two way streets, in this case Walnut and Race south of 2nd, become one-way north of 2nd, which it self is one-way. Traffic from both directions are turning eastbound onto 2nd at different times. The Walnut intersection is by far the worst of two. It'll be even more interesting when the streetcar is in operation.

Design panel pans look of proposed AC Marriott Hotel at the Banks

Chris Wetterich -  Staff reporter and columnist - Cincinnati Business Courier

 

The design of the proposed AC Marriott Hotel at the Banks needs some work, members of the Urban Design Review Board told representatives from developer Winegardner & Hammons Inc. on Thursday.

 

Members of the panel, which advises the Cincinnati city manager on the look of projects in the city’s urban core, said they hoped for a bolder, more-distinctive look. The four members present on Thursday do not have the power to compel design changes, but developers sometimes heed their suggestions. When they did not like the look of the new General Electric building at the Banks, the developer made some changes.

 

Winegardner representatives showed the board renderings of other AC hotels in the U.S. and Spain, which they felt had a bigger and bolder design.

 

Cont

I was hoping someone would push for an better design. The AC hotels in Miami and New Orleans have an much bolder design than The Banks. This is a prime location in Cincinnati that needs a bolder and bigger look. I did like the video concept

*Video screen

But the design board really doesn't have any power, do they? It didn't seem to change much with the GE building.

They don't have any actual power, but many developers will take their advice, or at least parts of their advice, in order to get a better product. GE didn't change their building much, but they did make positive changes after their meeting with the board. I imagine this will be a similar situation. We likely won't see something drastically different but I imagine some small details here and there will change and we'll get a better product.

 

I also think that rendering does the building absolutely nothing good. It looks like a very quick sketchup model inserted into a photo which is a good way of quick visualization but the limitations of that program generally make even good looking buildings look bad. I have a feeling the final product will be a decent building even though it's unlikely it'll be quite as bold as some of the other AC hotels out there."

 

Based on the rendering/drawing and their comment about it being inspired by their Spanish hotels, I'm feeling we'll get a product similar in materiality and style to this building.

 

 

Which will definitely be polarizing, but will offer a unique architectural product for The Banks. Pretty minimal and grey. If it looks similar to this I think I'll be pleased with the end result.

The main difference will be sound, not visual.  The "caps" will cap the wash of expressway traffic which causes more of a break than does the visual break. 

 

I had this exact thought the last time I was down at The Banks.  The noise coming from the trenched highway is actually really loud and incessant- I don't know how people stand to live in the northern section of the Banks apartments with all of that noise.  Even if the caps served no other purpose (meaning no buildings or parks on them) they would still result in a much quieter and peaceful atmosphere down there, which I think would help to tie the riverfront in with the CBD.  Obviously if we can get the caps to serve additional functions that would be preferred, but I completely agree that the biggest purpose they will serve is noise reduction.  It will make that whole second and third street area seem so much less chaotic.

Instead of doing a true cap, I wonder if it would be possible to put some sort of art installation over the trench, with the functional benefit of dampening the road noise.

They don't have any actual power, but many developers will take their advice, or at least parts of their advice, in order to get a better product. GE didn't change their building much, but they did make positive changes after their meeting with the board. I imagine this will be a similar situation. We likely won't see something drastically different but I imagine some small details here and there will change and we'll get a better product.

 

I also think that rendering does the building absolutely nothing good. It looks like a very quick sketchup model inserted into a photo which is a good way of quick visualization but the limitations of that program generally make even good looking buildings look bad. I have a feeling the final product will be a decent building even though it's unlikely it'll be quite as bold as some of the other AC hotels out there."

 

Based on the rendering/drawing and their comment about it being inspired by their Spanish hotels, I'm feeling we'll get a product similar in materiality and style to this building.

 

 

Which will definitely be polarizing, but will offer a unique architectural product for The Banks. Pretty minimal and grey. If it looks similar to this I think I'll be pleased with the end result.

 

Yuck, It looks like a hospital. That is a place I would go to have an operation or die as opposed to stay a night.  I like the original design much better.

Yuck, It looks like a hospital.

 

Well those metal panels do give it the same "morning sweats" as the blue and white Mercy Health building at I-71 and Edwards.  Bring on the grimy streaks and need for full-wall "window washing" that these buildings with no drip edges or overhangs develop after just a few months.  Anyone notice how dirty Morgens Hall at UC is already?