How big of an area is the construction staging space? Would be neat to have a tasteful building occupy such a prominent spot

How big of an area is the construction staging space? Would be neat to have a tasteful building occupy such a prominent spot

 

That space is just over 17,000 sq ft. But I'm pretty sure it is restricted to being just 1 level (like the Yard House) so that the Freedom Center has unrestricted views of the river.

 

I can think of quite a few really nice buildings that are only ~17,000 square feet and 1-2 stories. I generally don't mind Yardhouse's building but something that integrates a little better with its surroundings would be nice. Something that abuts the sidewalk to the south of the site and opens up to that sidewalk as well as the sidewalk on Freedom Way (ugh that name) would be nice.

 

And actually doing something useful with that bit of park between them would be good......................instead of just grass...........which is lazy and sucks.

Maybe a Johnny Rockets could open in the law school. 

Could be somehow integrated into the empty office pad in phase 1 which appears smaller as it is just the NW Corner of the block. The construction trailers on that pad are gone now, not sure how long that has been since they moved.

Could be somehow integrated into the empty office pad in phase 1 which appears smaller as it is just the NW Corner of the block. The construction trailers on that pad are gone now, not sure how long that has been since they moved.

 

That empty office pad from Phase 1 has a floor print of over 24,000 sq ft, so that would be pretty ideal size for a six-story UC Law School. I'm curious if Carter, as the master developer, would rather have UC move in there to complete that phase of the development, or if they'd prefer push the development further west and leave the office pad for something else. The Phase 1 office pad is directly on the streetcar tracks and has visibility from Fort Washington Way. I'm curious which site UC feels is the best fit for them.

My question is who would own the building. Would it be UC or Carter? I cant see UC not wanting to own their own real estate

If UC owns it they won't pay property tax.  That's one more large building not paying property tax...Paul Brown, Great American, Freedom Center, and GE don't pay property tax. 

Could be somehow integrated into the empty office pad in phase 1 which appears smaller as it is just the NW Corner of the block. The construction trailers on that pad are gone now, not sure how long that has been since they moved.

Could be somehow integrated into the empty office pad in phase 1 which appears smaller as it is just the NW Corner of the block. The construction trailers on that pad are gone now, not sure how long that has been since they moved.

 

That empty office pad from Phase 1 has a floor print of over 24,000 sq ft, so that would be pretty ideal size for a six-story UC Law School. I'm curious if Carter, as the master developer, would rather have UC move in there to complete that phase of the development, or if they'd prefer push the development further west and leave the office pad for something else. The Phase 1 office pad is directly on the streetcar tracks and has visibility from Fort Washington Way. I'm curious which site UC feels is the best fit for them.

 

I'd hate to see that space not built to max height with its corner location along the streetcar (can we come up with a one word name for our streetcar, please?) and visible from FWW. BTW, wasn't the development rights for that space supposed to run out soon on Carter?

The construction trailers that have lived at the Phase I office pad for many years are being removed this week....

The construction trailers that have lived at the Phase I office pad for many years are being removed this week....

 

Should we read anything into that?

Probably not. That way if it does mean anything we're pleasantly surprised.

The construction trailers that have lived at the Phase I office pad for many years are being removed this week....

 

Should we read anything into that?

 

It means that the work on GE/Radius is wrapping up.

The construction trailers that have lived at the Phase I office pad for many years are being removed this week....

 

Should we read anything into that?

 

It means that the work on GE/Radius is wrapping up.

 

TPIR loser horn...

I was curious to figure out where the the retail spaces for the Radius building would go, and it seems like all of them will face the south on Freedom Way. The entirety of the northern portion of the building (facing 2nd Street) is taken up by ground floor parking and the GE lobby. This is disappointing because it means 2nd Street will remain devoid of any street level activity. The glass is all frosted so you won't be able to see the cars inside. At one point, Carter had talked about this space being able to be converted to another use at a later date, but I wouldn't count on it happening any time soon.

 

Here is the view looking north from the parking garage entrance on Race St:

 

Here is the view looking east, along the 2nd street side. The wall in the far distance is where the GE lobby begins. Above the windows on the left, you can see the ventilation system to circulate the air.

Could be somehow integrated into the empty office pad in phase 1 which appears smaller as it is just the NW Corner of the block. The construction trailers on that pad are gone now, not sure how long that has been since they moved.

Could be somehow integrated into the empty office pad in phase 1 which appears smaller as it is just the NW Corner of the block. The construction trailers on that pad are gone now, not sure how long that has been since they moved.

 

That empty office pad from Phase 1 has a floor print of over 24,000 sq ft, so that would be pretty ideal size for a six-story UC Law School. I'm curious if Carter, as the master developer, would rather have UC move in there to complete that phase of the development, or if they'd prefer push the development further west and leave the office pad for something else. The Phase 1 office pad is directly on the streetcar tracks and has visibility from Fort Washington Way. I'm curious which site UC feels is the best fit for them.

 

I'd hate to see that space not built to max height with its corner location along the streetcar (can we come up with a one word name for our streetcar, please?) and visible from FWW. BTW, wasn't the development rights for that space supposed to run out soon on Carter?

 

They ought to call the trolley QUEST    QU ...for queen city  E ...energy Saving S....System  T.....Transit

That's a good start on brainstorming. I was trying to think of a portmanteau the two ends of the line or something of that nature. Rhine Line? Meh...

I was curious to figure out where the the retail spaces for the Radius building would go, and it seems like all of them will face the south on Freedom Way. The entirety of the northern portion of the building (facing 2nd Street) is taken up by ground floor parking and the GE lobby. This is disappointing because it means 2nd Street will remain devoid of any street level activity. The glass is all frosted so you won't be able to see the cars inside. At one point, Carter had talked about this space being able to be converted to another use at a later date, but I wouldn't count on it happening any time soon.

 

I don't think it would matter.  Toby Keith's was on the 2nd street side, and it didn't do much to make 2nd street feel alive.  Unless FWW is capped and 2nd is narrowed, that side of the block is always going to be throw-away space. 

 

//EDIT: It actually might have worked well if some hotels had been built at the edge of the Banks with the standard pull through drop-off space facing 2nd, because then that side of 2nd would feel alive even without pedestrian traffic, but that's not what ended up happening.

Retail on BOTH sides of a street (or mall or whatever) is vastly better than on just one side.

Upscale bowling concept and piano bar could be next for The Banks

Dueling pianos and an upscale bowling alley could be next to join the night club lineup on the Cincinnati riverfront.

 

Splitsville Luxury Lanes confirmed Wednesday that it’s negotiating for space at The Banks.

http://www.wcpo.com/news/insider/upscale-bowling-concept-and-piano-bar-could-be-next-for-the-banks

^ Gross. More reason to avoid the Banks

Why?

 

They have a location already in Disney world, so it's a proven concept. We've already known that the Banks is "OTR Light" and is meant more for the suburban family since day 1. This is a good potential addition, especially since it's already a popular and proven concept at Disney World.

Yep. I think this fits well at TB.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Dueling piano bars are super cheesy. They're a marker that you're definitely in a tourist trap, IMO. The bowling ally is less concerning, but there is already a crappy "luxe" bowling spot on 7th street, and one at Newport on the Levee as well. Maybe if it was a best in market addition, like a Lucky Strike Lanes, I'd feel better about it. But it's another generic knock off that carries very little brand recognition, which leaves me with little confidence that the place will actually be legit.

Didn't we have two dueling piano bars a few years ago that have both since closed?

There was one east of GABP, I think, and then there was one right on 5th between vine and Race, where the old Havana martini club was -- which was embarrassing.

Amazing that these two former bar spaces have become businesses:

 

    537 East Pete Rose Way - ? > Game Day Cafe > Fat Cats Dueling Piano Bar > Whiskey Bar Cincinnati > 2016 Cors & Bassett Attorneys At Law LLC

 

    441 Vine St. - ? > Havana Martini Club > The Penguin Dueling Piano Bar > Paragon Salon

Didn't we have two dueling piano bars a few years ago that have both since closed?

 

According to this article the piano bar is Howl at the Moon Saloon...making its triumphant return to the Cincinnati area since it was conceived here and left Covington Landing many years ago!

 

Here’s what could fill Toby Keith’s spot at the Banks

Apr 8, 2016, 6:51am EDT

 

A new upscale bar concept could be headed to the Banks, WCPO reports.

 

Splitsville Luxury Lanes is negotiating to fill the former Toby Keith’s I Love This Bar and Grill space at the Banks with a dueling piano bar and upscale bowling alley.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2016/04/08/here-s-what-could-fill-toby-keith-s-spot-at-the.html

^ Gross. More reason to avoid the Banks

Do you mean for you?

I think having the Howl...brand helps. There's probably a large group out there with good memories of that name.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Punch Bowl Social opened in downtown Detroit not long ago and is absolutely packed with the type of people that the Banks attracts. http://punchbowlsocial.com/detroit/gallery-det/

 

Punch Bowl Social opened in downtown Detroit not long ago and is absolutely packed with the type of people that the Banks attracts. http://punchbowlsocial.com/detroit/gallery-det/

 

 

love their 'dirty modern' style

Punch Bowl Social does a good job of showing how interesting interior design can give the space a sense of character, even if it's in an otherwise nondescript building (it's in the first floor of a parking garage that was built in the last few years). 

 

Nashville has a place called The Pinewood Social that combines a bar, bowling alley, and outdoor pool: http://pinewoodsocial.com/

 

It has a similar aesthetic as the Punch Bowl Social but is housed in an old re-purposed warehouse that has much more character than the Punch Bowl building or anything at The Banks (it's also in a less urban environment).

 

So far, The Banks hasn't developed much of a design identity or sense of place, so it still feels pretty soulless... like an extension of Newport On The Levee. I'm hoping the new Taste of Belgium will have a great design and push the other restaurants to up their design game.

 

 

It's a shame that The Banks hasn't been able to attract any new-to-market concepts. Most of the businesses have been half-baked or recycled concepts that have been tried elsewhere. Johnny Rocket's and Jefferson Hall moved from NOTL to The Banks. Piano bars have been tried multiple times downtown. A boutique bowling alley already exists at NOTL.

^I think this is just what happens when you try to start an entertainment district like The Banks or NOTL from scratch, as opposed to one developing over time in an existing neighborhood (NOTL doesn't count because it is essentially walled off from Newport).  The end product just doesn't feel organic or authentic at all.  That doesn't mean they won't be successful, but they will just never have the distinctive feel of places around town like Vine Street, Hamilton Avenue, or Mainstrasse.

This will be a big long-term test of the theory that as long as you build the bones of the development right, individual stages of its evolution don't really matter. The Banks will be whatever it will be. What is important is that it extended the block pattern of downtown, it has transportation connections, and great public space. All it really needs in the long run is the decks over FWW.

Even though the architecture isn't good at the banks it still has the good bones you say, with a street wall and everything.  It serves its purpose as an entertainment destination pretty well, and should only get better over time.  Especially if they make the interstate decks, that would be huge to really connect to downtown, with hopefully 4-6 story apartments and offices with better architecture than the banks.

Not sure if this was an error or not, but WCPO reported today that Howl at the Moon is a new tenant at Newport on the Levee.

 

Here's the quote: "And a new Howl at the Moon piano bar is among the Levee’s new tenants. Older tenants include Axis Alley bowling and the Funny Bone comedy club."

 

http://www.wcpo.com/news/insider/after-15-years-newport-on-the-levee-is-still-a-work-in-progress

 

Either this fell through and they may now be heading towards The Banks, or they know something The Banks developers don't.  It's a little confusing to say the least.

 

I heard on the radio that Radius rents start at $1400.  The city and/or county needs to build several hundred units of affordable housing on The Banks or downtown for service-industry workers.  We need to avoid the problems that are occurring in other cities with low income people being forced into 1-hour+ commutes. 

I'm sorry, but it's ridiculous to think someone would spend $1400 a month to rent a one bedroom apartment ANYWHERE in Cincinnati, let alone at the crappy Banks.

I've been renting my 1BR condo at 13th&Vine in OTR for $1500 a month, going on 4 years now.

I'm sorry, but it's ridiculous to think someone would spend $1400 a month to rent a one bedroom apartment ANYWHERE in Cincinnati, let alone at the crappy Banks.

 

Um, why? Because of some outdated, self-defeatist understanding of demand in 2016 Cincinnati?

I'm sorry, but it's ridiculous to think someone would spend $1400 a month to rent a one bedroom apartment ANYWHERE in Cincinnati, let alone at the crappy Banks.

 

Um, why? Because of some outdated, self-defeatist understanding of demand in 2016 Cincinnati?

 

No, because you could rent a pretty nice apartment in a desirable neighborhood of LA for $1400/month, and Cincinnati is certainly no LA. Because I pay under $1000/month for a 1 bedroom place in a better location, with a better view, and loads more character than whatever is offered at The Banks. Because you could rent damn near an entire house in Oakley or Mt. Lookout for $1400/month.  Because Downtown Cincinnati is dead on the weekday nights and weekend days.  Because the river is a nasty shit brown color 9 months of the year.  Because you're literally living in a construction zone if you rent at Radius, and it's going to be a noisy construction zone for years to come.  Because you're literally adjacent to a huge freeway. Because the latest tenants announced for The Banks are a dueling piano bar and a bowling concept.  Need I continue...?

I'm sorry, but it's ridiculous to think someone would spend $1400 a month to rent a one bedroom apartment ANYWHERE in Cincinnati, let alone at the crappy Banks.

 

Yes, it's a ridiculous amount of money to spend on an apartment in this city.  And if the owner isn't local, the money floats away from Cincinnati to out-of-town investors. 

 

When I visited Los Angeles several years ago the image of Mexicans and only Mexicans (no residents) waiting for the bus in Beverly Hills really struck me.  These people do the landscaping and cleaning of wealthy people's houses, then face a 60-90 minute bus commute back to wherever they live while the kids of these rich people sit inside playing video games and doing drugs. 

 

Considering your response was riddled with bullshit, no need, I'll just refute it.

 

1) Location is not crappy. The people who rent here work nearby. Proximity to work and most of the region's most popular restaurants, bars, etc. comes at a price whether you personally want to live there or not.

 

2) Comparisons to LA are comical. The average one bedroom in LA is more than twice the price listed here. Desirable neighborhoods even more so.

 

3) Your personal preferences for things like "character" have literally no effect on pricing. You aren't the target audience.

 

4) In what world does someone who wants an apartment downtown compare price points to houses in Oakley or Mt. Lookout? Two entirely different products for entirely different people.

 

5) Your comments about it being dead aren't entirely true, but even if they were you haven't provided any bit of evidence that this should negate a price point that is completely achievable and becoming quite common Downtown and in OTR.

 

6) The color of the river hasn't seemed to detract from the popularity of the riverfront in recent years.

 

7) Adjacency to a sunken highway hasn't seemed to have any effect in other locations when it comes to price. Mostly because you can't hear it when inside.

 

8) Some people like dueling piano bars. Just because you don't doesn't mean it's absurd to want to rent nearby one. What an entitled, narcissistic statement.

 

9) Construction stops after work hours. When people are actually home they won't be dealing with noisy construction, and even if they were, so what? Some people don't care. And clearly it isn't an issue.

 

Your comments are exactly the type of BS attitude that has existed in Cincy for ages. It's a load of crap and needs to die off.

I know some people who have moved in to The Radius and they are happy with what they're getting for the price they're paying. It's not where I would choose to live, but for some people it's exactly what they want.

 

Cincinnati doesn't yet have an affordability crisis until you see neighborhoods like Covington, the West End and Clifton Heights fetching those kinds of values or higher - its not a problem.  In fact the fact that neigborhoods so close to downtown didn't fetch good values in spite of their advantages was an issue.

 

Right now the inflated prices downtown will help out some of these neighborhoods which could be on the verge of completely collapsing, look at the West End or Walnut Hills for good examples.  High market prices cause other areas to go up in value by proximity its a law of real estate in a healthy market.

 

However long term something will have to be done to address this affordability issue, for now these high rents in centralized locations are a good thing for Cincinnati on the balance.

 

The banks is expensive because people are willing to pay a premium for new construction right on a park with a river view (yes the river is brown but there are properties all over Cincy that fetch higher values for river views) in between new stadiums.  Sports fans are a fanatical bunch and I'm sure its no different than why Wrigleyville has relatively high rents, though in this case the supply of housing is more constrained and that's largely due to local developers having attitudes that are creating the situation like the Dennison - being completely and utterly out of touch with what the market wants because they are too conservative and risk adverse to see the writing on the wall.

I have noticed that a lot of people not from Cincinnati, particularly people who relocate here from either the South or the West Coast, have the exact opposite opinion of what is desirable than many natives. I watched a friend of a friend turn down several amazing deals on homes in Columbia Tusculum and Mt. Lookout, only to ultimately buy a new house in Morrow because they didn't want an old home. "New" was not only at the top of the list of requirements, it was virtually the only requirement. I don't understand the logic but those people are out there, and there are a lot of them.

Considering your response was riddled with bullshit, no need, I'll just refute it.

 

1) Location is not crappy. The people who rent here work nearby. Proximity to work and most of the regions most popular restaurants, bars, etc. comes at a price whether you personally want to live there or not.

 

2) Comparisons to LA are comical. The average one bedroom in LA is more than twice the price listed here. Desirable neighborhoods even more so.

 

3) Your personal preferences for things like "character" have literally no effect on pricing. You aren't the target audience.

 

4) In what world does someone who wants an apartment downtown compare price points to houses in Oakley or Mt. Lookout? Two entirely different products for entirely different people.

 

5) Your comments about it being dead aren't entirely true, but even if they were you haven't provided any bit of evidence that this should negate a price point that is completely achievable and becoming quite common Downtown and in OTR.

 

6) The color of the river hasn't seemed to detract from the popularity of the riverfront in recent years.

 

7) Adjacency to a sunken highway hasn't seemed to have any effect in other locations when it comes to price. Mostly because you can't hear it when inside.

 

8) Some people like dueling piano bars. Just because you don't doesn't mean it's absurd to want to rent nearby one. What an entitled, childish statement.

 

9) Construction stops after work hours. When people are actually home they won't be dealing with noisy construction, and even if they were, so what. Some people don't care. And clearly it isn't an issue.

 

Your comments are exactly the type of BS attitude that has existed in Cincy for ages. It's a load of crap and needs to die off.

 

Listen, I'm not going to go through a point by point rebuttal with you, simply because I don't care enough to engage with you like that.  You've got some serious Cincinnati blinders on, and, like so many others, are a bit delusional about the situation that Cincinnati is in.  Things have dramatically improved in the urban core in the last 8 years or so, but we are still solidly a mid-tier city that is just BARELY growing. There simply is not a dynamic of demand here that exists in other markets where prices across the board have risen dramatically.  Developers are capitalizing on the fact that one, albeit very small, section of the core (including everything from the river to CUF, LPH to Mt. Adams) is really hot right now, mostly because of extremely limited supply that is being brought online.  I was never arguing that developers couldn't get these rates- obviously they can and are finding people to live in these places.  All I was saying is that anyone who pays that much to live in a poorly constructed building at The Banks is foolish, and being played by developers, in my opinion. 

 

Character of the building and neighborhood absolutely 100% is factored in to pricing, by the way, so I don't really know what you were talking about with that point.  I brought up Oakley and Mt. Lookout because they are both desirable neighborhoods with many amenities, access to large employment centers, low crime rates, high income areas, etc.  That one could rent a house in one of these desirable neighborhoods for the same cost as a 1 bedroom apartment in a freeway adjacent (look up studies linking freeway proximity to respiratory disease and cancer rates-- it's far beyond a noise issue), construction zone, tourist trap, is telling of the spiky and artificially inflated market of Downtown and OTR.  If our city was booming, the rates in existing desirable neighborhoods would also be sky rocketing, but they're not.  So, if someone wants to pay $1400 for a place at the Banks- go for it. I can still think that's a foolish choice, and that the individual is being manipulated by an artificially 'hot' market.

I'll say this- I don't know how anyone pays $1400 in rent AND saves up for a down payment on a home.

 

Also comparisons to other real estate markets really don't mean much if our wages don't match other markets.