Make the dock world class. It's the future Cincinnati Quay and the central ferry terminal for all of the new ferry services that's going to pop up in the next 10 years. ;)

Whats up with the 1B office tower plan? I feel like that's taken an extraordinary long time to get off the ground for whatever reason. You would think there would be more demand, no?

 

Also I'm not sure why we haven't progressed further with the second 1a restaurant? That also seems to be developing slowly.

I am a bit surprised that they haven't just built a spec office tower at this point. I mean, it seems like every week there is a new tenant announced for the Rookwood Exchange office buildings or the Kenwood Collection. I think it's a clear sign that a lot of companies in the region are wanting to freshen up their office space by moving to a newer building.

I imagine it would be nearly impossible to get financing for a 100% spec office tower in Cincinnati. And they are not going to build it with cash and assume all the risk.

 

But I am surprised they couldn't get any of the companies that have recently relocated to be an initial anchor tenant. Especially some of the tech companies that located in rookwood or kenwood.

I hope that lot gets developed, completely filling the space between 2nd, Elm, Paul Brown, and the Plum St walkway. That parcel is a decent size: 1.189 acres: 

http://wedge3.hcauditor.org/view/re/0830007000900/2015/summary

 

But I suspect it will be the last of the lots at The Banks to be developed due to its awkward shape and due to being the farthest from the rest of the activity at The Banks.

 

 

Enough room for a copy of the narrow mini-hospital at Rookwood. 

 

I am a bit surprised that they haven't just built a spec office tower at this point.

 

Urban Ohio needs to open their own bank.  All those real banks are clueless!!!

Enough room for a copy of the narrow mini-hospital at Rookwood.

 

That Rookwood parcel is a bit smaller and more awkwardly shaped:

http://wedge3.hcauditor.org/view/re/6510030039200/2015/summary

 

Even along its narrowest dimension (north-to-south along the Plum St walkway), Lot 13 is about 90' deep, which means that a simple rectangular footprint could be 90'x390' with a ~34,000sq ft foot print, which is plenty big enough for many purposes without requiring any unusual design decisions. A more creative design that takes advantage of the full triangle could obviously have an even larger footprint (~50,000 sq ft).

 

For comparison, here are some other parcel sizes at The Banks:

• 180 Walnut office pad - 132'x193' = 25,000' sq ft foot print
  
• AC Hotel - 68'x240' = 16,000 sq ft foot print
  

Some part of me has a weird feeling that's where UC's new law school will wind up. We know now from the most recent info from the county that they're seeking $10 million to build the pedestal that UC's school would sit on meaning they're no longer looking at the lot currently under construction south of GE and Radius.

 

It just seems like it could warrant an interesting building that doesn't need to fit quite as cleanly into the budget of a developer.

jmicha[/member] - I've wondered that as well... but also don't forget that for now the parking pedestal ends at Race St, so we still need to fill in the whole area between Elm and Race before moving west of Elm.

This is true. Unless UC wants to utilize the garage underneath their new building and it doesn't necessarily need to be connected as of yet.

 

Who knows. I have literally nothing to back this up since it's just a hunch based on UC's desire to create interesting buildings and their history of shoehorning them into weird places (I'm looking at you Lindner Center). But I can see something interesting coming from that site for them.

I'd love to see UC Health (or one of the other major hospitals) open a facility somewhere at The Banks. Being next to the stadiums, it would obviously be a great location for orthopedics and sport medicine... but it would also be nice for other general medical facilities.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2016/05/21/the-banks-brings-in-new-retail-leasing-team.html

 

CBRE was selected to provide retail leasing and brokerage services for the mixed-use development, replacing Jeffrey R. Anderson Real Estate Inc., which has handled retail leasing for the Banks since 2010.

Tonight's weather was perfect, like late September.  The riverfront has literally never looked better in the city's history than it does now.  The new GE building and new hotel construction draw the eye's attention away from the cheapness of The Current.  The Freedom Center now looks sort of nestled into the cityscape, and it and (again) the cheapness of The Current are obscured somewhat by all of the recently planted trees that all seem to have grown a few feet this spring. 

Did I just see a [glow=red,2,300]positive[/glow] post from you?

I guess springtime goes to everyone's head a little. :)

^That or those neighborhood thugs found Jake and  gave him the thump on his head they've been want to dole out for 20+ years. I keed. We love you Jake.

I'm just waiting for the hipster millennial college kids to come down to the Banks with their parents trust fund money and ruin everything! :evil:

Lot 13 was pegged for a limited service hotel, but I haven't seen that mentioned for years.  I thought they wanted a full-service hotel where the AC is going so I assume that is why they won't mention specific plans for Lot 13.

Still can't believe they turned down a starbucks.  The GE employees alone would have been able to keep them in business. 

The Direct TV blimp took some great pictures of downtown and the banks the other day.

 

 

 

 

Quick question for you fellow Urban Ohioers regarding The Banks.  I have heard over the last few months that both Hard Rock Cafe and a Rainforest Cafe were interested in locations at The Banks, but haven't heard where they would locate or if it's even true.  Has anyone else heard anything from them?  I know at one point, Hard Rock was interested in a location on the Purple People Bridge but that fell through. 

 

Just wondering if anyone had any more input (pure curiosity)

I have no idea about that but I think it would be neat to have a Hard Rock in downtown.  Even though it's a chain, it's a good sign the city is more or less in the bigger leagues.  I think somewhere placing this in one of the new historic rehabs on 4th street would be great, or even in the future 4th and Race project.  That could really liven up 4th Street and along with the new double Hotel under development now, it really could jump start 4th Street even more.

...Hard Rock Cafe and a Rainforest Cafe...

 

Is it 1996?

Many of us have speculated on this forum that Hard Rock or Rainforest Cafe could/should locate at The Banks. But I have never heard any rumors that those businesses were actually interested in locating at The Banks.

 

Rainforest Cafe gets brought up because it's a unique concept to the region (no other locations in OH/KY/IN), is family-friendly, and would compliment Smale Park and the stadiums.

It's really great to look at the pics from the blimp and see everything.  For so long, all we had were pretty renderings.

Agreed. We really have a beige skyline. Another couple glass giants like GAT, Scripps, or a larger version of GE would go along way to making our beautiful skyline a modern looking beautiful skyline.

 

Even a couple of reds like The Hyatt and Terrace would do a lot.

 

Another thing, to the unfamiliar eye, TBX looks basically built out in these shots with the new garage veiling the surface lot.

Rainforest would be nice. We need all we can get at TBX to appeal to families and amateur urbaneers.

I'm not the hugest advocate for the FWW cap idea, but those aerial shots are going to look awesome when the caps are built and The Banks blends seamlessly into Downtown Cincinnati.

I was thinking the exact same thing!

 

Yeah, I think it will look great.  The only question I have is this:

 

Would it be better to concentrate on connecting with development OTR to Downtown first, then putting City Money into 4th Street area, Race Street retail district, etc., then lastly put the money onto the caps?  Or should the city best focus on connecting the Banks to downtown?

That's my main reason for not being a huge advocate for the caps. First we need to focus on rehabbing existing historic buildings before we lose them, then filling in the parking lots with new development, then building the caps.

I think the main argument for the caps would be, put them in now before prices surge.  But at the same time, we have so much downtown space already and so many buildings that need help in the greater downtown area that I would rather that money be put towards those buildings / Liberty Street road diet, etc. before we do the caps.

 

You are exactly right, the caps will always be there in the future, better to put city money and focus on the other things first.

The caps will dissipate some of the noise but not all.  If you are standing at the streetcar stop, there is a ton of noise generated by the section of FWW that rises and bridges Broadway. 

That's my main reason for not being a huge advocate for the caps. First we need to focus on rehabbing existing historic buildings before we lose them, then filling in the parking lots with new development, then building the caps.

 

Growing the local economy to add jobs and population would solve all of these...

^ I was waiting for the sentence after the ellipsis about how to grow the economy. Probably it's something to do with creating a place where employable people would want to be if they were employed.

It looks like the idea of a music venue at The Banks is still floating around...

^So between Howl at the Moon, some goofy indoor/outdoor concert space, and some very unsubstantiated talk about Hard Rock Cafe...  The Banks is just evolving into Louisville's "4th Street Live!" with park and a view, right? 

That's my main reason for not being a huge advocate for the caps. First we need to focus on rehabbing existing historic buildings before we lose them, then filling in the parking lots with new development, then building the caps.

 

Are the caps getting closer to happening? I have not really heard anything on the news about them lately, and it seems like they are a low priority on the list now. Has something changed?

^So between Howl at the Moon, some goofy indoor/outdoor concert space, and some very unsubstantiated talk about Hard Rock Cafe...  The Banks is just evolving into Louisville's "4th Street Live!" with park and a view, right? 

With LC Pavillion (now Express Live!) and the Basement, not to mention it's proximity to major sport stadiums, I think the Arena District in Columbus is more what they are shooting for. I see no problem with a well done music venue that can attract new artists to the area, PNC Pavillion and Riverbend only get certain types of artists, and the right promoter should be able to get more acts that currently skip Cincy to go to Indy and Louisville and Columbus to instead stop here.

If done correctly, and not taking up a block that would be better suited for residential/office, indoor/outdoor venue could be a good asset at the banks. Would certainly help business at the restaurant/bars on slower nights during the week and would help hotel occupancy.

^So between Howl at the Moon, some goofy indoor/outdoor concert space, and some very unsubstantiated talk about Hard Rock Cafe...  The Banks is just evolving into Louisville's "4th Street Live!" with park and a view, right?

 

Fear not (I think the concert venue and Hard Rock Cafe are both unlikely). Even if either or both of those venues came to The Banks, the area already has a more diverse set of uses and appeals to wider range of audiences than a pure "entertainment" district like 4th Street Live. Just look at the demographics of who is down there on any given day. Once GE opens in September, this will only increase the diversity of uses to the area. On a typical day now, you will see lots of families with young kids exploring the parks. Business men getting food. Groups watching sports.  The only time it feels like a pure entertainment district is when Freedom Way is shut down for festivals or special events like Opening Day, which I think is totally fine.

If done correctly, and not taking up a block that would be better suited for residential/office, indoor/outdoor venue could be a good asset at the banks. Would certainly help business at the restaurant/bars on slower nights during the week and would help hotel occupancy.

 

That's my biggest fear. That this massive venue would wind up taking up a spot that could be more residences, another hotel, more office space, etc.

Lot 23 makes the most sense to me, nestled between the riverfront park and the banks. The outdoor venue could be open to the public during the day or when not being used, similar to the Ascend Amphitheater in Nashville. That to me would be areal asset, and more permanent and with better facilities than the P&G pavilion over in Sawyer point, which is really just a large bandstand (and is more separated from downtown).

If PromoWest (or Cincinnati Symphony) wants to invest some money in upgrading the P&G Pavilion at Sawyer Point, I'd be fully supportive. But there's no reason to build an additional venue at The Banks (remember that The Banks already has Schmidlapp for small concerts and two stadiums and an arena for large concerts!).

 

An amphitheater the size of The Ascend (over 500' x 500') would require a lot more space than anything that's available north of Mehring Way... definitely more than Lot 23. If you compare the size of the P&G Pavilion in Sawyer point (300' x 550') or the PromoWest venue in Columbus (350' x 350') and try to "fit it into" The Banks, you will realize the absurdity of putting an amphitheater into The Banks... which is why I think it's unlikely to happen. If somebody really wants to finance yet another riverfront concert venue, I suppose they could do something with the field just west of the Roebling... but that'd just be a duplicate of the P&G Pavilion at Sawyer Point, which reveals the uselessness of the idea.

 

Concert venues are for special events and people are willing to make their way a mile up river for a concert they want to attend. It's not like a coffee shop where they're just going to "stop by" because it's in a convenient location.

^So between Howl at the Moon, some goofy indoor/outdoor concert space, and some very unsubstantiated talk about Hard Rock Cafe...  The Banks is just evolving into Louisville's "4th Street Live!" with park and a view, right? 

With LC Pavillion (now Express Live!) and the Basement, not to mention it's proximity to major sport stadiums, I think the Arena District in Columbus is more what they are shooting for. I see no problem with a well done music venue that can attract new artists to the area, PNC Pavillion and Riverbend only get certain types of artists, and the right promoter should be able to get more acts that currently skip Cincy to go to Indy and Louisville and Columbus to instead stop here.

 

 

It's basically impossible for an act of any renown to play Cincinnati and any of the nearby cities in the same year because of radius clauses in booking contracts.  The radius increases with the drawing power of the act and the nature of the show -- is it a tour, a festival, etc. and can be 500 miles or more, meaning the same act can't headline the same sort of music festival basically in the same time zone twice in a year. 

 

jmecklenborg[/member] is right. The idea that the certain bands are "passing" on Cincinnati because we don't have the right venues is totally misguided.There are 27 metro areas bigger than us in the country, and several large metro areas within a few hour drive. That just means that Cincinnati will see fewer bands (of any size) on tour than a bigger city or a city with fewer nearby cities (like Kansas City).

 

That being said, having good management of the venues *IS* important for booking quality acts, but the question of management should be separate from the question of facilities.

jmecklenborg[/member] is right. The idea that the certain bands are "passing" on Cincinnati because we don't have the right venues is totally misguided.There are 27 metro areas bigger than us in the country, and several large metro areas within a few hour drive. That just means that Cincinnati will see fewer bands (of any size) on tour than a bigger city or a city with fewer nearby cities (like Kansas City).

 

That being said, having good management of the venues *IS* important for booking quality acts, but the question of management should be separate from the question of facilities.

 

The bigger booking companies like Live Nation sometimes own one or several venues in a market.  An act will sign a contract with them to do a tour, which means they almost always play in Live Nation venues.  Those booking companies still do have to book venues they don't own, depending on the city or the act, but for obvious reasons they try to keep them in venues that they own.  Meanwhile the casinos can pay touring acts more than an ordinary venue because the publicity alone has value, not to mention the suckers who blow $500 on their way out of the show on the craps table. 

 

Also, the riverfront already has the P&G pavilion at Sawyer Point and I have yet to see the stage on the Schmidlapp  Event Lawn put to use. 

 

I completely see what your saying about the space that these event spaces take up, and agree that simply upgrading P&G pavillion to something better would probably be the best way to go.

 

I just get frustrated when quality acts skip us, I'm not looking for Rhianna to come to US Bank, but I would like Animal Collective or Modest Mouse to come here instead of/ as well as Columbus. Basically Bogarts sucks and only gets alternative punk/pop and the Madison doesn't compete as well with other venues due to it's location in Covington instead of Cincy and it's size limitations which was recently reduced even more by the fire marshal. If a band is slightly too large to play at Madison like Passion Pit or Arctic Mokeys etc who sold it out quickly with high priced tickets but couldn't fill US bank arena, there isn't a good middle ground sized venue. Taft usually takes that place as a middle sized space with bands like Umphrey's, Grace Potter, Grizzly Bear etc. playing there, but that is a seated venue not general admission and creates stuffy atmosphere that the bands and fans don't enjoy as much (not to mention the tickets are inevitably more expensive at Taft). If we could get those kinds of bands to visit during their summer tours we could get them at a new pavilion on the downtown riverfront (or to PNC Pavillion, but that's far from downtown and still doesn't have the general admission atmosphere of most great venues).

 

Sorry to go on an off topic rant, but I think there is currently a void in Cincinnati's venue lineup for a metro of 2 million people, that's all. That being said, in a perfect world this venue would be south of Mehring not taking up developable mixed use land from the Banks

Bands don't skip Cincinnati because we don't have the right venue, they skip it because they decide to play Indianapolis/Columbus/Louisville instead.

 

There are two companies who want to run the new Banks venue. One is MEMI, which already runs PNC Pavilion and Taft Theatre/Ballroom. What acts would they be able to get at The Banks that they couldn't already get at one of those two venues? The other company is PromoWest, which runs several venues in Columbus. Is the assumption that they will be able to package the Cincy and Cbus venues together and require bands to play in both cities? That also seems unlikely. I'm just not understanding what our city gains by adding a new venue at The Banks.

Cincinnati has tons and tons of concert venues of all shapes and sizes.  Most of them have just a handful of shows per month. 

 

Paul Brown Stadium

Great American Ballpark

US Bank Arena

Bank of Kentucky

Cintas Center

Cincinnati Gardens

Aronoff Center (2 theaters)

Music Hall

Memorial Hall

Emery Theater

Taft Theater

Riverbend

PNC Pavilion

P&G Pavillion

Timberwolf?

Fountain Square

Horseshoe Casino

Hollywood Casino

Belterra Casino

Blue Ash Summit Park

Bogart's

20th Century

Madison Theater

Cincinnati Zoo

Seasongood Pavilion at Eden Park

Southgate House Revival

Thompson House

Hamilton County Fairgrounds?

 

I don't know if they still do concerts at Seasongood Pavillion, the only upcoming even I could find was an Internet Cat Video Festival on June 24 http://local.cincinnati.com/calendar/event.asp?ProdID=188388.  When I was a kid and teenager there were definitely concerts there pretty regularly during the summer.  I distinctly remember 4 Non-Blondes playing a free show there, sponsored by Q102, back in 1991 or 1992.