Good to see the Banks full of life. Big fan of the open container stuff.

 

As said, that lot opposite the GE development is crying out for development. I'm surprised theres an apparent lack of appetite. Looks an open goal to me, bog standard identikit apartments and ground floor retail space for additional bars and restaurants, no fancy design needed, activates that side of the street and I'm certain it would have retail tenants and residents lining up. Demand looks pent up to me if the claims about long waits to get in bars down the other end at places next to GABP are anything to go by. 

 

Curious to see what they've lined up tenant wise for 180 Walnut, both in terms of office tenants and retail.

 

 

 

56 minutes ago, snakebite said:

Good to see the Banks full of life. Big fan of the open container stuff.

 

As said, that lot opposite the GE development is crying out for development. I'm surprised theres an apparent lack of appetite. Looks an open goal to me, bog standard identikit apartments and ground floor retail space for additional bars and restaurants, no fancy design needed, activates that side of the street and I'm certain it would have retail tenants and residents lining up. Demand looks pent up to me if the claims about long waits to get in bars down the other end at places next to GABP are anything to go by. 

 

Curious to see what they've lined up tenant wise for 180 Walnut, both in terms of office tenants and retail.

 

 

 

 

Oh the demand is there. Just gotta get the city and county to move on it. That's the limiting piece. 

2 hours ago, jwulsin said:

Is the outdoor event "lawn" real grass or artificial turf? If they're going to book a lot of events, turf makes sense to avoid the inevitable mud pit that "grass" turns into after even a day or two of music festivals.

 

Article says it is artificial.

I'm a little disappointed by the outdoor stage being temporary though I know that has always been the plan. I had thought something that is permanent, gives the public the use of the platform when it is not actively being planned, similar to the stage at Sawyer Point.

1 hour ago, DEPACincy said:

 

Oh the demand is there. Just gotta get the city and county to move on it. That's the limiting piece. 

I thought they'd manage to cut a deal and end all the bureaucratic squabbling? Sorry, I'm out of the loop.

After looking at the pictures, I feel like ICON blows away the Newport thing. Also, not mentioned here yet is the fact that now we have some added park space and the culdesac and stairs are now added at the foot of Race.

 

When is Hilltop supposed to vacate their spot?

Well, ICON is certainly starting off with a bang.

 

 

On 5/27/2021 at 1:58 PM, Rabbit Hash said:

After looking at the pictures, I feel like ICON blows away the Newport thing. Also, not mentioned here yet is the fact that now we have some added park space and the culdesac and stairs are now added at the foot of Race.

 

When is Hilltop supposed to vacate their spot?

I think Covid may have put ICON in a much stronger position against the Newport facility than it was going to be in originally. The Newport facility was going to open much earlier and would have already had a chance to establish itself first as the destination for these concerts. Now, ICON is essentially opening at the same time or even beating Newport to the punch which will really help it out long term. 

11 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

I think Covid may have put ICON in a much stronger position against the Newport facility than it was going to be in originally. The Newport facility was going to open much earlier and would have already had a chance to establish itself first as the destination for these concerts. Now, ICON is essentially opening at the same time or even beating Newport to the punch which will really help it out long term. 

I’m not so sure about that, although Newport was scheduled to open first it was only by a matter of 2 or 3 months, also both venues where scheduled to open at the start of winter(November/December 2020) which is when concert season slows a bit anyway. I mentioned multiple times even before Covid on this forum that ICON was going to do very well regardless of Newport. The talk about Newport’s advantage of being “block booked” thru AEG with its regional sister venues as a reason ICON would struggle was always overblown. AEG is big but there are a ton of musicians and they don’t all need to go thru AEG to book venues as we can see. The fact is ICON is a much better venue at a much better location and it’s being ran by a team thats very familiar with booking concerts and events. The Newport operators behind the scenes wanted the Cincinnati venue cancelled badly because they knew it would be very competitive but I’m happy it was built.

Icon certainly has a more impressive lineup than PromoWest so far. It will be interesting to see how that changes after the venue opens and PromoWest is able to encourage bands to block book, e.g. giving them a better deal if they play shows at all three of their major venues in Columbus, Pittsburgh, and Cincinnati/Newport. That could steer some major acts to PromoWest over Icon.

 

I toured PromoWest (and Phil Armstrong photographed it), and despite not being a very attractive venue on the outside (especially at street level), it is a really well designed space on the inside that will be great for both concertgoers and artists. The viewing angles are great from everywhere inside and outside, and there are tons of TVs everywhere that will be showing the stage so that you don't miss a second of show, even if you go to the bathroom or are waiting in line at the bar. The backstage areas are really large and welcoming for the artists, and have plenty of space for the road crew and production staff.

 

I wasn't invited to the Icon tour but from what I've seen, it was designed very differently. It seems like more of a multi-purpose space that can host the Pops or Ballet in addition to rock concerts. Unfortunately most of the biggest rock shows are going to be held on a temporary stage outside the building.

2 hours ago, taestell said:

Unfortunately most of the biggest rock shows are going to be held on a temporary stage outside the building.

What is the approximate capacity for outdoor concerts at the Icon?

15 hours ago, jwulsin said:

What is the approximate capacity for outdoor concerts at the Icon?

I've seen 7k-8k but not sure how accurate that is. I'll be at the FF show and am very curious to see how things shake out.

The Smoothie King on 2nd St. has "temporarily" closed. Guess they've seen no benefit from the DORA.

35 minutes ago, Cygnus said:

The Smoothie King on 2nd St. has "temporarily" closed. Guess they've seen no benefit from the DORA.

My guess is because hiring right now and having workers stick is a huge hassle right now . 

I’d argue it’s a bad concept. I go to that planet fitness every day and rarely if ever see anyone in the Smoothie King.. Frankly I don’t understand why people think fitness and smoothie places are complementary. Folks who ride the elliptical for an hour aren’t trying to spend $7 a beverage that isn’t a meal replacement, contains tons of sugar and doesn’t price out for the protein. 

54 minutes ago, Cygnus said:

The Smoothie King on 2nd St. has "temporarily" closed. Guess they've seen no benefit from the DORA.

 

They should have transitioned to a boozy slushy concept. Fat Tuesday at The Banks!

 

 

1 minute ago, taestell said:

 

They should have transitioned to a boozy slushy concept. Fat Tuesday at The Banks!

 

 

You joke but Frosthaus is literally across the river in Covington and has a great bourbon slush. 

It doesn’t show up on their website so I’d say “temporarily” is forever.

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2021/07/01/hamilton-county-injects-tens-of-millions-into-hous.html?ana=TRUEANTHEMFB_CI&csrc=6398&utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A+Trending+Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR1g1feIxIJHIrANPFlw029vLFO8DHaz2hGpJ-RN4ObrjiX2SW16GS_VlMo
 

some interesting news here..Hamilton county will use portion of the rescue funds to build out the lot at the banks next to Paul brown stadium.

 

sounds like they will build an African American hall of fame/park. 

On 7/1/2021 at 8:01 PM, Troeros2 said:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2021/07/01/hamilton-county-injects-tens-of-millions-into-hous.html?ana=TRUEANTHEMFB_CI&csrc=6398&utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A+Trending+Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR1g1feIxIJHIrANPFlw029vLFO8DHaz2hGpJ-RN4ObrjiX2SW16GS_VlMo
 

some interesting news here..Hamilton county will use portion of the rescue funds to build out the lot at the banks next to Paul brown stadium.

 

sounds like they will build an African American hall of fame/park. 

They are building out the weird pie shape space at the corner of Mehring and Elm. I walk by there daily and go WTF did they not address this with the icon center. It just feels like a major afterthought.

 

Also I wonder if the park garage extension is getting the same stone treatment as the phase below Moerlein Lager House. I am assuming that its all on back order, i just hope it wasnt VE out of the project. 

On 6/18/2021 at 2:02 PM, Cygnus said:

The Smoothie King on 2nd St. has "temporarily" closed. Guess they've seen no benefit from the DORA.

 

This location was open when I was in the area today.

23 hours ago, savadams13 said:

They are building out the weird pie shape space at the corner of Mehring and Elm. I walk by there daily and go WTF did they not address this with the icon center. It just feels like a major afterthought.

 

Has anybody seen designs for this space? 

So any news when those grassy lots (where the Ferris wheel was supposed to go) will be developed?

 

Also wasn’t there supposed to be another restaurant on that lot? 
 

The banks has been in development for what, almost 10 years now? 
 

How is this hard to get another restaurant tenant there? There are just some aspects about the banks that makes me curious why this area so diffficult to get constant momentum. 
 

You have 2 sports stadiums, a music venue, a Fortune 500 company in GE. You have the business foot traffic, you will have soon have more general public consistent foot traffic with the music venue…yet it just seems like pulling teeth when it comes to getting anything done with the banks. 

The land is owned by two governments, the city and county.  All governments are complete idiots and ours are even worse.  So I'm sure we'll still have empty lots at the banks in another 10 years because the politicians can't just get out of the way.  

4 minutes ago, Cincy513 said:

The land is owned by two governments, the city and county.  All governments are complete idiots and ours are even worse.  So I'm sure we'll still have empty lots at the banks in another 10 years because the politicians can't just get out of the way.  

so both the city and county need to approve the construction of a restaurant going in that space? 
 

I don’t understand…if there is already a master plan for the banks. Why not follow it? Don’t understand why there can’t be a team appointed from both the city and the county and just have them work in unison, as a team, and direct the future developments of the banks? 
 

If there's one thing to know about Cincinnati, it's that we're absolutely amazing at coming up with bold master plans and then refusing to follow them for political reasons.

5 minutes ago, Troeros2 said:

Don’t understand why there can’t be a team appointed from both the city and the county and just have them work in unison, as a team, and direct the future developments of the banks? 

 

It was called the Joint Banks Steering Committee and it fell apart in 2019.

13 minutes ago, taestell said:

 

It was called the Joint Banks Steering Committee and it fell apart in 2019.

 
well that’s just frustrating…you would think it’s the city and county best interest since these projects will only boost revenue for the city and the county.

Which completely hypothetical alignment for an air gondola from the Banks to the Covington IRS redevelopment would be more feasible or preferable and why?

 

 

 

Or what about this galaxy-brain option also connecting to Ovation development in Newport?

 

 

 

Just ban cars from Roebling bridge and convert both ends to public plazas. No need for a gondola.

Yes. This is far too noisy.

 

I get that the banks is a destination/theme park, but do we have to bring Covington into this? 

Let KY pay for a streetcar extension across the Purple People Bridge that loops to Covington

2 hours ago, JaceTheAce41 said:

Let KY pay for a streetcar extension across the Purple People Bridge that loops to Covington

The OKI 2050 plan lists a streetcar extension across Taylor Southgate Bridge, if that's any indication of the current prevailing mindset. I have no idea who's pushing for that or if it's even a remotely active project.

2 hours ago, Dev said:

The OKI 2050 plan lists a streetcar extension across Taylor Southgate Bridge, if that's any indication of the current prevailing mindset. I have no idea who's pushing for that or if it's even a remotely active project.

 

Officials in Newport requested it be included in the plan.

I think gondolas could be successful in Cincinnati for the hillsides connecting the casino to Mt. Adams, OTR to Bellevue Hill Park, or Mainstrasse to Devou Park but crossing the river seems like it should be rail. That being said, I would rather have aerial trams crossing the river to provide views and transit instead of having dueling Ferris wheels like it looked like might happen a couple years ago. 

Video of the Koblenz cable car over the Rhine River in Germany. Could you imagine viewing boats going by on the Ohio in this way? 

https://youtu.be/0VZeHxXqqhc

 

The Koblenz cable car has one end in the city and one end at a tourist attraction at a higher elevation on the opposite bank.  
 

https://www.seilbahn-koblenz.de/homepage.html

Edited July 12, 20213 yr by thebillshark

I hadn't seen any pictures of the new area adjacent to the ICON, but it's pretty nice looking and definitely fits with the other areas of Smale. The exterior concert venue is up and looks ready, though it looks small to hold the Foo Fighters. I wonder if this is still controlled by the park and if in the future it could be used with music festivals like Homecoming. Can't wait to see a show here, see you all at St. Vincent. 

 

1 hour ago, ucgrady said:

The exterior concert venue is up and looks ready, though it looks small to hold the Foo Fighters.

Whoa, that's supposed to hold 8,000? Those saplings are going to have to get lucky to survive that onslaught of people.

29 minutes ago, Dev said:

Whoa, that's supposed to hold 8,000? Those saplings are going to have to get lucky to survive that onslaught of people.

I hope they put up temporary fencing to protect the trees during any big concerts.

 

It's hard to get a sense of the scale from photos without people for reference... but the stage is VERY large and the lawn seems quite small by comparison. Considering how large the stage is, I'm curious how frequently (if ever) they're going to take it down. I suspect it'll function as a "permanent" fixture, but I could be wrong. 

 

I have no idea how to estimate the lawn's capacity, but just in terms of relative size, the stage appears to my eye as "oversized" for the lawn. I think a smaller stage would feel more appropriate. That being said, I think the space is going to work really well for small/medium-sized outdoor concerts (assuming they calculate crowd capacity appropriately). The space has a nice sense of "enclosure", while still having amazing views of both the skyline and the river.  I'd definitely encourage folks to stop by and walk around. It is not yet 100% completed, but you can get a good sense of the "feel". 

 

 

 

Also, I will never get over how awesome it is that Covington and Cincinnati street grids align, and I love how the stairs help reestablish that connection. Here's Race/Madison:

 

 

Here's the corner of Elm/Mehring:

Maybe I missed it ... but are they doing something with that corner of Elm/Mehring? That not great looking at the moment. 

24 minutes ago, jwulsin said:

Considering how large the stage is, I'm curious how frequently (if ever) they're going to take it down. I suspect it'll function as a "permanent" fixture, but I could be wrong. 

Pretty sure it just transforms into a Pizza Hut when it's not being used.

26 minutes ago, jwulsin said:

Considering how large the stage is, I'm curious how frequently (if ever) they're going to take it down. I suspect it'll function as a "permanent" fixture, but I could be wrong. 

 

It will probably be just about as permanent as the old "temporary" state at Fountain Square, which typically got built and dismantled once each year.

4 minutes ago, zsnyder said:

Pretty sure it just transforms into a Pizza Hut when it's not being used.

I'd eat a pizza there for sure. 

16 minutes ago, wjh2 said:

Maybe I missed it ... but are they doing something with that corner of Elm/Mehring? That not great looking at the moment. 

Yeah - there is something planned, but I'm not entirely clear on the details. This article has a bit of info, but not much in the way of specifics: https://www.wvxu.org/post/officials-banks-has-transformed-mud-pit-vibrant-riverfront-community#stream/0

 

Quote

County officials say the next step will be developing the small plot of land at the corner of Elm and Mehring Way, Lot 28, with more greenspace, and maintenance space for the Parks Department.

 

"It's the front door to the music venue," says Commissioner Denise Driehaus. "Lot 24 though, is the most developable of all lots. We can do mixed-use there; we can do some density there. That's a bigger nut to crack. We're thinking through all of what might be appropriate in that space."

 

Driehaus says the opening of the Icon Music Center and the event center lawn does make Lot 24 more attractive to developers. She says the COVID-19 pandemic did set schedules back.

 

I'm not sure if I'm geographically challenged or what, but I have a tough time with the different lots at the Banks. But@wjh2, I think it's evolved a bit from what @jwulsinsaid if you're talking about Lot 28. 

Quote

Pocket park – Right now it's a gravel lot wedged between the music venue, Paul Brown Stadium and Smale Riverfront Park on the northeast corner of Mehring Way and Elm Street. If all goes according to plan, by next summer, it'll be a graded lot with grass, walkways and trees that willprovide a transition between Smale Riverfront Park and the music venue, said Hamilton County Administrator Jeff Aluotto. The lot would slope up toward the music venue entrance. Hamilton County Commissioner Alicia Reece has pushed for a walkway through the park that would serve as a Black Music Walk of Fame honoring local Black musicians who have made contributions to the national music scene.

via https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2021/06/13/banks-music-venue-finished-so-whats-next-cincinnatis-riverfront/7609093002/ [Subscriber only]

 

This was funded through HamCo ARPA money:

 

Quote

Black Music Walk of Fame

Reece suggested a walk of fame to honor African American musicians from Cincinnati and the project now has $9 million set aside in the ARPA spending plan.

 

"It's going to look like the Hollywood Walk of Fame; people are going to come from all over the world," Reece said. "For the first time we will have a music corridor on The Banks."  The walk of fame will be constructed across from Paul Brown Stadium, which hosts the annual Cincinnati Music Festival, and will sit next to the new Icon Music Center.

 

Construction is set to kick off at the end of the month with a ceremony honoring the first four inductees: Bootsy Collins, Dr. Charles Fold, the Isley Brothers and Otis Williams. P&G is partnering with the county to help fund the project.

(via WVXU)

 

Quote

The county plans to spend $9 million of the money on Lot 28 of the Banks, which is located just north of Mehring Way, adjacent to Paul Brown Stadium and the Andrew J. Brady Icon Music Center. (see map below). Lot 28 will be the home of a Cincinnati African American music walk of fame park, but the public will pay for a garage, storage and other infrastructure using federal money. Procter & Gamble plans to contribute to the walk of fame, according to the county. Under the zoning at that site, it can have open space, parks or a restaurant/bar. via BizCourier

 

3 hours ago, jwulsin said:

Yeah - there is something planned, but I'm not entirely clear on the details. This article has a bit of info, but not much in the way of specifics: https://www.wvxu.org/post/officials-banks-has-transformed-mud-pit-vibrant-riverfront-community#stream/0

 

 

Is there a reason why they didn’t just do the garage for lot 25 as well? Looks weird having a hole that’s just a parking lot. 

On 7/12/2021 at 2:33 PM, Dev said:

Whoa, that's supposed to hold 8,000? Those saplings are going to have to get lucky to survive that onslaught of people.

I was thinking more about the 8,000 capacity number (because it seems like the space couldn't handle that size crowd), and tried to compare it to Riverbend's lawn. 

 

Riverbend's lawn has ~95,000 square feet of space and 14,500 capacity, which comes out to ~6.5 square feet per person. I did a bit of research at 6 sq ft per person seems like a typical "minimum".

 

Don't have updated aerial images yet, so this footprint isn't precise, but it shows how 55,000 sq ft (52k would match Riverbend's 6.5 sq ft/ person) could fit. But that footprint includes the very largest possible space including landscaping and outer paths, not just the "lawn". If the crowd is limited to just the lawn, it would be considerably smaller. I'll be curious to see if MEMI tries to "max out" the capacity, or if they only sell a smaller number of tickets for the outdoor concerts. 

 

Here are the seated/inside capacities for the associated venues: 

Riverbend: 20,500 (6,000 seats + 14,500 general admission lawn)

PNC Pavilion at Riverbend:  4,100 seats

Icon: 4,400 indoor or 8,000 outdoor

PromoWest in Newport: 2,700 indoor or 7,000 outdoor

On 7/12/2021 at 4:10 PM, jwulsin said:

I'd eat a pizza there for sure. 

a frank gehry, its not.

22 hours ago, jwulsin said:

Don't have updated aerial images yet, so this footprint isn't precise, but it shows how 55,000 sq ft (52k would match Riverbend's 6.5 sq ft/ person) could fit. But that footprint includes the very largest possible space including landscaping and outer paths, not just the "lawn". If the crowd is limited to just the lawn, it would be considerably smaller. I'll be curious to see if MEMI tries to "max out" the capacity, or if they only sell a smaller number of tickets for the outdoor concerts.

 

Looks like it's a lot smaller than we thought. There won't be high res imagery till typically February next year.

 

I snuck onto the lawn before it was open.  It is a nice space but I have no idea how 8,000 people will fit in there.  I'm waiting patiently for the drone shots of the Foo Fighters' concert to prove me wrong.  

I'll be there. A little worried but we will see.