What you really need to be worried about beating is the Village at the Streets of West Chester.

 

Don't know where that is? UncleRando will outline an aerial for you. ;)

the Village at the Streets of West Chester... what a dumb name.  It's no Gateway Urban Living Quarter.

>I wish these union guys would open their eyes and take notice.  If they want an example of what can happen, just look north about 4 hours and see what kind of shape the automobile industry is in around Detroit.

 

The construction unions are screwing over both cities and universities -- I once was photographing a project at OU and the guy installing those typical accoustic tile ceiling panels told me he was getting $36/hr.  That works out to roughly $75-80K pretax.  Meanwhile one of my friends who had graduated but was waiting for his girlfriend to get out of there was making $10/hr doing the same kind of work for a contractor.  And while Democrats tend to defend unions, these days you need to know somebody -- dad, uncle, friend, or whoever just like in other kinds of business in order to get in.  And out in eastern Ohio the contrast between the incomes of union versus non-union contractors is criminal. 

 

I don't want to hijack this thread, but not all union labor is wastefull and bloated.  Most of the skilled trades (carpenters, plumbers, pipefitters, electricians, etc) are trained through apprenticeship programs run by the unions, who have very good training facilities ( http://www.jatc392.com/ for example) which are paid for by those higher costs.  This typically translates to a better overall project, as the low-bid practice for public jobs usually leads to inferior work or high change order costs (see this article about shoddy work in many school projects in ohio http://www.cantonrep.com/printable.php?ID=328816).  Also, at least in the unions that I know, a lot of the these skilled trades are begging for workers, and are having to add associates degrees and college credits to entice people to "just work construction".

unions are corrupt, inefficient, and wasteful, but if you are in one, it is about the best gig you are ever going to get.  I remember when I was in IATSE, it was a sweet job.  we got a hot meal break, smoke breaks, whatever.  I heart unions, the only problem is they have a revolver aimed at their left foot and often times are close to pulling the trigger.

What you really need to be worried about beating is the Village at the Streets of West Chester.

 

Don't know where that is? UncleRando will outline an aerial for you. ;)

 

I could outline an aerial of your...nevermind, but I will be more than happy to provide information if you so desire!

I don't know what I should think about this...could be a major event in the Banks history, but could also be absolutely nothing.  Someone on here needs to tip my opinion meter please!

 

Developer seeks new chance at Banks

CINCINNATI ENQUIRER

February 28, 2007

 

CINCINNATI - The head of a group that wants to develop The Banks has asked city and county officials to reconsider its earlier proposal for a mixed-use project on Cincinnati’s central riverfront in light of the Banks Working Group’s failure to conclude an agreement with its preferred developer by its initial Feb. 15 deadline.

 

Full story text is available at

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070228/BIZ01/302280042/1076

^I'd say that is wonderful news, especially by the fact that the developer came to the county, not the other way around. Plus, they are already saying they will comply with/work around so many of the projects potential hurdels. Sounds pretty incredible, might as well be positive!

^I'd say that is wonderful news, especially by the fact that the developer came to the county, not the other way around. Plus, they are already saying they will comply with/work around so many of the projects potential hurdels. Sounds pretty incredible, might as well be positive!

 

if anything, this keeps AIG on their toes a little bit.

It's a shame those issues aren't what is holding the project up.  If they said they would pay for the parking garages to get the banks out of the flood plane then I think we could get excited.

 

So all we can do is hope the city and county pony up the money for the garages!!!

From the Business Digest portion of the 3/1/07 Enquirer:

 

 

Banks group requests new chance for plan

Business digest

ENQUIRER STAFF AND WIRE REPORTS

 

The head of a group that wants to develop The Banks has asked city and county officials to reconsider its earlier proposal for a mixed-use project on Cincinnati's central riverfront in light of the Banks Working Group's failure to conclude an agreement with its preferred developer by its initial Feb. 15 deadline.

 

Full story text is available at

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070301/BIZ01/703010322/1076/rss01

 

 

 

^That was already posted by me about 4 posts ago.

Help sought for deck to the Banks

March 6, 2007 | CINCINNATI ENQUIRER

 

CINCINNATI - Hamilton County officials hope the state will kick in some money to help build a deck over Fort Washington Way to connect the city to the proposed Banks development on Cincinnati's central riverfront.

 

Full story text is available at

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070306/NEWS01/703060397/1056/COL02

Interesting...seems like maybe AIG is wanting the decking to be a priority.  Good Stuff.

I had heard that they were possibly interested in building on top of portions of the decking.  Most likely along the streets in order to create a more seamless connection with downtown.  I keep hearing how they want more and more to develop...I take that as an encouraging sign.

Unless they need more room for big boxes….haha .. I kid, I kid  :evil:

decking woild probably cut down on the noise as well

I say forget decks, it would be cool to have a large piece of plexy-glass material over I71? Imagine walking over a transparent bridge looking down at what seems to be your fate, a 40 ft. drop with a large amount of vehicles traveling at 70 mph, we could charge for this. I say get rid of the purple people bridge climb and create the "FWW Trek™". j/k

^I'll be honest, the plexiglass thing actually sounds kinda cool.

^I'll be honest, the plexiglass thing actually sounds kinda cool.

 

I think it does, too. 

I wouldn't want to clean all the black fumes from the cars and trucks that would show up on the plexiglass every day, but the concept would be interesting.

I wouldn't want to clean all the black fumes from the cars and trucks that would show up on the plexiglass every day, but the concept would be interesting.

 

Good point. 

eh, it would be cool for like a day. 

You guys give up too easily:-D, just apply the windshield washer concept to the plexi glass and Voila!

Count me in as someone who thinks a Lytle Park idea is brilliant.  In fact it would be a true centrally located downtown park which I think is something Cincy needs and it means that they wouldn't have to use amuch if  of the Banks actual property for park space since it will already have ben built over the highway. 

A park over FWW would also benefit developers of condos such as the McAlpin and Lofts at Fountain Square by allowing dog owners to purchase.  Right now, there is absolutely nowhere to walk a dog down there.

Well there's a 60-odd acre park planned for the riverfront just a few hundred feet from FWW and several more parks for a mile east, so I don't see any need for another one.  These expressway caps don't have to change the world, folks. 

 

Anything like the I-670 High St. cap in Columbus will work fine.  A tad Las Vegas-ish, but most visitors probably don't realize they're on top of an expressway, which is the point. 

 

 

Anything like the I-670 High St. cap in Columbus will work fine.  A tad Las Vegas-ish, but most visitors probably don't realize they're on top of an expressway, which is the point.

 

Exactly!!!!!!

how much weight could these deck's hold?  I have always felt that the above project suffered from a lack of a second story and some residential development. 

 

however a park in the block across from the freedom center flanked on either side by a block of development would be a really sharp way to tie the grid to the banks.

>how much weight could these deck's hold?

 

I don't know but you can definitely feel vibration just like an overpass.  I'd guess you can feel it in the restaurants too but I haven't been in any of them.  The problem with higher developments is that residents and offices require parking and that would increase the need for garages nearby.  The 670 cap restaurants have valet parking.  Like I said the casino-looking buildings are a hair much but there can't be any doubt that the cap helps draw convention people across 670.   

 

 

 

These caps are designed only for parks. To require large buildings would necessitate a full column of reinforced concrete instead of piers, or a more extensive network of supporting piers and cross-beams. If you drive on Interstate 95 through New York City, you can see a great example of just what is required to put a building on top of a highway.

I totally agree that buildings on the caps would be the best thing for downtown and the Banks, rather than being its own separate development, the Banks would just be an extention of downtown. I'm not sure, however, if you would see more or less investment spill-over into downtown(3rd-4th St. block) from the Banks if there was a park or development over FWW.

 

That being said, I have a feeling that the present pilings/infrastructure completed w/ FWW's reconstruction will not support the size/height of buildings you would need. The building heights over FWW would have to be at least as much as those in the block south of Second St, or at least close to that. I don't think it is wise to spend more public money to redo the pilings, etc. already in place, which have yet to benefit anyone.

 

Looking at the long term as well, I'm just not sure you want to put the city/state/citizentry, etc. in the situation of having buildings on top of a highway. Urban highway construction is already terribly, terribly expensive, should we be placing the burden of millions, upon millions of dollars that will be needed in 50 or 100 years for reconstruction, or whatever happens in the future, just so the Banks development will be seemless with downtown?

Looking at the long term as well, I'm just not sure you want to put the city/state/citizentry, etc. in the situation of having buildings on top of a highway. Urban highway construction is already terribly, terribly expensive, should we be placing the burden of millions, upon millions of dollars that will be needed in 50 or 100 years for reconstruction, or whatever happens in the future, just so the Banks development will be seemless with downtown?

 

Well with that notion yes...I would like to see it done then.  I think it is a good idea to discourage highway expansion and the likes.  It would require you to get creative in handling congestion.  I think that is what has made great cities great.  They don't have the luxury of having the easy option...so they have had to get creative and think of a more unique solution.

 

But I do agree...I don't want to see them go back and retrofit the pilings if thats what is neccessary to build on the decking.  I would say build the decking with the park and be done with it!

The caps were designed to handle the structural load of a park with adequate irrigation/drainage systems, not full-fledged multi-story structures.

thats fines parks would be great there.

definitely an improvement over the sounds of rushing traffic and the hole for the highway below!

And it would be a great asset to downtown residents. Cincinnati was lucky not to have an elevated piece-of-crap like Louisville has, because demolishing an elevated highway with no real alternatives at the present moment is much harder than recessing a highway into a ditch.

I was sitting around thinking about things that I would like to see at The Banks. Besides the usual mention of restaurants and an ESPNZone, I thought of something that I usually make a point of seeing if I go someplace and they have one.

 

A Ripley's museum.

 

There's not one anywhere near here. And it always seems like their a big draw whenever I go to one.

 

So how about it? Agree or disagree?

I always thought they were kind of cheesy, but they would draw in the kids. Which is a big boom. I haven't been to one in _years_, but do they have rotating exhibits? And what about the connection to the Newport on the Levee? It would make a nice supplement to the Newport Aquarium...

the only two ripleys that i am familiar with are on the magnificent "strips" of gatlinburg and branson.  my personal feeling is that they are tourist traps that dont belong in a legitimate urban setting.  maybe there are locations that are in respectible city centers, but iam unfamiliar with those.  whenever i think of ripleys i think of their "crumbling building" motif (typicaly 100 percent eifs)...very cheesy.  but like i said, that is all i am familiar with.

I remember going to the Ripley's in St. Augustine, FL. I don't think most museums do very well financially. Museums end up being publicly supported so I think we should stay away from any more museums. Look at the Freedom Center and Union Terminal. We need places that patrons will go to on like a weekly basis.

Absolute "No" on Ripley's.

 

Cincinnati Museum Center is in far, far better financial shape than the Freedom Center. But yeah, one museum is enough for the riverfront.

I vote- no more postings in this thread unless it's new info pertaining to the Banks ... My emotions can't take it. ;)

ha, i agree!

I vote- no more postings in this thread unless it's new info pertaining to the Banks ... My emotions can't take it. ;)

 

Yeah, I agree!  Oh...wait....  ;)

Sorry Guys.

Congress Could Provide $25 Million For Banks

 

POSTED: 4:47 pm EDT March 15, 2007

UPDATED: 4:58 pm EDT March 15, 2007

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WASHINGTON, D.C. -- A House committee authorized $25 million Thursday to help fund the Banks riverfront development.

 

The money is intended for construction of the stalled commercial and residential development, which is expected to cost about $600 million to complete.

 

Full story text is available at

http://www.wlwt.com/news/11263357/detail.html

 

Is this the 25mil that was already being counted on or is this in addition to that money?? 

I would think that this is the money that they were banking on, but never got the A-OK from the feds on it.  The project wasn't ready to go at the time of the initial request, so the feds probably put it off.  Now that the project is almost ready for groundbreaking...it is time to formally commit the funds.

 

This is still VERY key to the project.  If these funds aren't approved then it will severely hurt the project, but I would assume that local leaders have been reassured that there is enough support for the Water Resources and Development Act that this funding can be counted on.

 

It sounds like construction has to start this fall if the project is going to happen any time soon...

^^ the 25 million will cut the project deficit in about half.  It has not already been counted to my knowledge.

^^ the 25 million will cut the project deficit in about half.  It has not already been counted to my knowledge.

 

If that is the case, then that is VERY good news!!!

Here is what I found within the actual bill:

 

 

SEC. 4057. CINCINNATI, OHIO.

 

(a) In General- The Secretary shall conduct a study to determine the feasibility of carrying out a project for ecosystem restoration and recreation on the Ohio River, Cincinnati, Ohio.

 

(b) Design- While conducting the study, the Secretary may continue to carry out design work for the project as authorized by section 118 of division H of the Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2004 (118 Stat. 439).

 

© Existing Plans- In conducting the study, the Secretary shall review the Central Riverfront Park Master Plan, dated December 1999, and incorporate any components of the plan that the Secretary determines are consistent with Federal standards.

 

(d) Credit-

 

(1) IN GENERAL- The Secretary shall credit toward the non-Federal share of the cost of any project authorized by law as a result of the study the cost of work carried out by the non-Federal interest before the date of the partnership agreement for the project if the Secretary determines that the work is integral to the project.

 

(2) LIMITATION- In no case may work that was carried out more than 5 years before the date of enactment of this Act be eligible for credit under this subsection.

 

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c110:63:./temp/~c1109POeHw:e287467:

---

This is from Schmidt's news releases...

 

Schmidt Announces Federal Authorization for Banks Project

 

WASHINGTON DC -  Congresswoman Jean Schmidt (R-OH) announced that the U.S. House of Representatives Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure authorized $25 million in federal funding for construction of the Cincinnati Riverfront Development Project (the Banks). The authorization for federal funds was included in a manager’s amendment to the Water Resources and Development Act which passed the full Committee by voice vote this afternoon.

 

The provision authorizing funding for the Banks project will allow the Federal Government to fund up to $25 million to begin construction. The measure is expected to pass the full House next week.

 

"The Banks Project is vital to the future of downtown Cincinnati," said Congresswoman Schmidt. "Today’s action is the first step in getting the federal government involved in this vital development. While getting authorization for federal funds is certainly not the last step in this process, it is undoubtedly a very vital step," Schmidt added.

 

Congresswoman Schmidt is a member of the Transportation and Infrastructure Committee. The Congressional authorization will allow the City and County to seek federal funds for Army Corp of Engineers projects needed to develop the real estate along the Ohio River downtown.

 

"In my meetings with our County Commissioners and Mayor Mallory, the Banks project is the top of their list of things they need from the federal government. I am quite pleased that I was able get this first step done. I have been working on this for almost two years and I want to thank Senator Voinovich for his help in the Senate and of course my Hamilton County partner Steve Chabot," Schmidt concluded.

 

http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/oh02_schmidt/banks.html