Portune likes Plan B if Banks deal is no-go

BY JOE WESSELS | CINCINNATI POST

March 17, 2007

 

CINCINNATI - Six months after a developer was selected for The Banks project on the Cincinnati riverfront, major issues still remain in securing a final agreement that would allow the long-stalled plan to move forward.

 

At the same time, a runner-up for the project has offered up to $40 million in rebates to Cincinnati and Hamilton County if they are awarded the project, potentially making it much more affordable.

 

Full story text is available at

http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070317/NEWS02/703170329

this is getting very very very very annoying.  the unresolved issues they mention seem ticky tack to me although im sure they have monitary implications.  figure it out damn you!

 

i think they should determine what the funding gap is and make it public, that way our wonderful corporate citizens who have contributed oh so generously to downtown over the past decade (im not sure any of these exist) can help get this thing started.  then we can rename it the 5/3 Procter & Gamble Riverfront Urban-setting Living Working Retailing Entertaining Sporting Quarter.

WTF?!?!?

 

Churches' coalition meets on Banks

March 29, 2007 | CINCINNATI ENQUIRER

 

CINCINNATI - A grass-roots coalition of churches will hold an open meeting tonight to discuss the need for a "socially responsible" developer to handle the Banks development.

 

The AMOS Project, which is made up of more than 40 congregations, said any potential developer should be committed to local hiring, workforce development and fair labor conditions.

 

Full story text is available at

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070329/NEWS01/703290337/1056/COL02

cincinnati politics at its finest...an idea, gets scaled back, then either it disappears or its built 10 years later

I still don't understand why the city/county doesn't just go ahead and build the stupid parking garages by themselves (although built with the intention of being able to hold future development on top).  Look how much time has been wasted that could have been used at least to gain revenue via parking receipts.  And I still don't get why the whole thing needs to be built all at once by one developer.  Plus there's the issue of the Bengals veto over the two westernmost blocks still looming.

"And I still don't get why the whole thing needs to be built all at once by one developer. "

 

I agree, there would a lot of ,moey to gain by auctioning fthe land by different lots or developing in different stages.

Grrrr...  Earth to Cincinnati, build those damn parking garages NOW!  At least do so in the name of Bengal fans.  With that surface lot decked with a parking garage, I won't have to endure the fat tailgater rubbing his blubber through his cut off Bengals jersey while I walk to the stadium from my $3 parking underneath Fountain Square.

I won't have to endure the fat tailgater rubbing his blubber through his cut off Bengals jersey

 

Wait, you DON'T find that sexy?! ;)

Banks Working Group adds two members

Cincinnati Business Courier - 12:01 PM EDT Wednesday, April 4, 2007

 

Two more members have joined the Banks Working Group, which is planning the riverfront mixed-use development, after complaints that the group contained no minority representatives.

 

The two new members are Steve Love, president of the Greater Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky African American Chamber of Commerce, and Robert Richardson, president of the Cincinnati AFL-CIO Labor Council, Cincinnati City Councilman Chris Bortz said.

 

Full story text is available at

http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2007/04/02/daily32.html?jst=b_ln_hl

I think that decision is kind of backwards ...

 

So, now they are picking members based on race?

And awards contracts not based solely on performance, but whether it is owned by a woman or a minority.

Mallory was extremely excited on cold pizza to talk about the banks project...said for the first time in 50 years, cincinnati is gaining population.  all because of a bad throw

I think that decision is kind of backwards ...

 

So, now they are picking members based on race?

 

yes, under pressure

Changes made to Banks project

Working Group expanded to add African-American members

BY JESSICA BROWN AND JON NEWBERRY | [email protected] OR [email protected]

 

City and county leaders are making two changes to The Banks that they hope will overcome the last obstacles to the project:

 

The Banks Working Group, a city-county panel charged with recommending and overseeing the project, is being expanded from five to seven members. The two new appointees, Steve Love and Robert Richardson, are African-Americans, answering some of the criticism about the formerly all-white group's lack of diversity.

 

The Port of Greater Cincinnati Development Authority, which oversees redevelopment projects, is being streamlined and reorganized. Two years after the county took the Banks away from it, the port will be put back in charge once the working group finishes a development agreement with preferred developer Atlanta-based AIG/Carter.

 

Full story text is available at

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070405/NEWS01/704050392/1056/COL02

As long as the job is done right and well, who gives a damn who builds the project?  I think there is a legitimate claim to be made on behalf of having local contractors benefit from a massive local investment project.  Black folks make up nearly 50% of the city's population so it isn't crazy to expect that they might wish to benefit from it.  It's called democracy people, and despite everything that has been said of late, it's not on the internet.

 

Why don't you take a lot at who else is on the Banks Working Group?  Local rich white dudes.  And who did they add?  Steve Love a wealthy black dude.  I don't know who this Richardson guy is but whatever.  The fact is, the people on the WG are all local elites.

 

I love Cincinnati, I was born and raised here, but it doesn't take a genius to know that when Josh Hamilton, who hasn't done a single thing at all for the Reds yet, is given a standing ovation at Openiing Day, and Chris Henry is essentially reviled on sports talk radio, that something else is afoot.

Well if they just subdivided the Riverfront we could have the American zone, British zone, French zone, Soviet zone...

 

 

 

and women are underrepresented as well, and asians and hispanics and homosexuals..

right, which is why Bortz states the following, above:

 

"Bortz added that the group has revised its economic inclusion policy, with which it hopes to award about 30 percent of its contracts to small, women- and minority-owned firms for the $600 million project.

 

The revised policy is more gender- and race-neutral with a focus on small businesses, Bortz said. "

 

I really don't understand what the beef with this is...

 

 

I love Cincinnati, I was born and raised here, but it doesn't take a genius to know that when Josh Hamilton, who hasn't done a single thing at all for the Reds yet, is given a standing ovation at Openiing Day, and Chris Henry is essentially reviled on sports talk radio, that something else is afoot.

 

What does this have to do with the Banks Project?  Oh, wait, you want to make a racial issue out of this.  On one hand, you have a kid (who just happens to be white) screw up his life before he even realized his potential (without being any danger to anyone other than himself), work to get cleaned up and is being cheered for that very effort. 

 

On the other hand, you have an already well compensated kid (who happens to be black)who can't quite seem to keep himself out of trouble and a danger to others (guns, drunk driving etc) who is being treated better than he should be.  If the situation was reversed, I think each would be treated the same.  Chris Henry will be applauded when he grows up and cleans up his act.

 

If Josh Hamilton is stupid enough to be driving at 12th and Vine at 3am in his Escalade, than he would deserve the same.  No disrespect to those of you who love OTR, but not a good place to be at that time of the day.

 

BTW, did anyone see this interview? I'd like to see what plug he had for The Banks or if it went into any other details.

 

Apr 4, 2007 3:36 PM

Cincinnati Mayor On ESPN2

 

Posted By: Tom Mckee

Cincinnati Mayor Mark Mallory says the ball from his wide Opening Day pitch is now in the Reds Hall of Fame -- as a doorstop.

 

That was one of many quips made on ESPN2's "Cold Pizza" program Wednesday morning.

 

Others included "Who could have thought such a bad pitch could bring such great things to Cincinnati?" and, "I think everybody there wanted me out of Great American Ball Park right away."

 

Full story text is available at

http://www.wcpo.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=71ef4b56-7226-4fab-98c6-fbf611b013c5

 

^Look, I'm going to post this and move on. Sure Chris Henry and Josh Hamilton aren't perfect comparisons. Humility and regret go a long way in turning around your public image, and Henry has shown neither. But why have Reds fans given Davis, Larkin, and Griff the business while loving the likes of Freel and Rose? Freel racked up a few DUIs as well remember. Rose is a disgrace. McAlister was calling for lifetime imprisonment for Henry! Doesn't he realize that Hamilton was far worse before getting clean? You don't know much about addiction if you think he was a danger only to himself.

 

As regards the inclusion issue at the Banks. I can't understand why anyone would not want more small business involvement in the project. This is a $600 mill project. That's a big number to move through the regional economy. It's only right that we make sure those benefits are seen by as many parts of the community as possible. Women and minority inclusion efforts aren't just a way to make everybody feel hunky-dory (ha), they help address economic need.

If Josh Hamilton is stupid enough to be driving at 12th and Vine at 3am in his Escalade, than he would deserve the same.  No disrespect to those of you who love OTR, but not a good place to be at that time of the day.

Why? It's not so bad anymore.  I drive that stretch all times day and night. There are cops and sheriffs all over. Heck, Jean Claude van Robert is opening a French Bistro there. The banks to me will always be a big parking lot, kinda like cinergy field was always riverfront stadium. They need to come up with a new name.

  Steve Love and Robert Richardson sound more than qualified to be members of the group regardless of what there race is.

  I'm totally fine with it as long as their not puppets for Chris Smitherman's agitation purposes. Which I doubt. So it's all good. Let's keep this ball rolling.

Secret Plans for The Banks

Officials take steps to keep development drawings under wraps

BY KEVIN OSBORNE | [email protected]

 

DOWNTOWN - A new design for a proposed housing and shopping district along Cincinnati's riverfront is being shown behind the scenes to area leaders by a developer interested in building the project, and one key official said he expects ground-breaking for the long delayed plan to happen this fall.

 

After years of relative inactivity, progress on The Banks project is starting to occur at a much quickened pace, although the public hasn't yet been informed about some of the latest developments.

 

Full story text is available at

http://www.citybeat.com/current/news.shtml

Nice to see a "firm" date on park construction! Let's hope it happens this fall.

... Oh, for the love of GOD!!!

Let me make myself clear, I want this:

 

 

They better not f*ck it up!

... Oh, for the love of GOD!!!

 

What is this comment geared towards??  I must not be following....btw, for everyone else already griping about the potential design:  Nothing has been shown yet, can we at least wait and see the darn proposal before we start b!tching?

here is atlantic station, and aig development

 

 

 

 

 

Been in Asia for the past few months and I've seen some impressive stuff.  The original designs in my opinion look way too boring.  I would like the project to go a little more contemporary and less traditional main streetish but first and foremost I want the project to be done.

Contemporary sucks!  I just got back from Amsterdam and Paris two days ago and I have been to Asia and while Asian cities are vibrant, nothing in the world can touch the traditional look and feel of Amsterdam and Paris.  While I am not comparing this project to those cities, I personally love the original renderings and thing they fit our cities architecture, history and feel perfectly.

 

I also don't want some faux urban lifestyle center garbage like Atlantic Station.  The Banks should be a beautiful urban neighborhood, not some nasty Newport on the Levee concept.

^ good ole conservative thinking from good ole conservative cincinnati...thats what we want everyone to think right?  I agree that there is absolutely nothing inspiring about Atlantic Station, the architecture flat out sucks.  But that is not to say "contemporary" architecture cant produce "a beautiful urban neighborhood"  Why build a faux otr when we already have a real otr??  I have used this comparison a lot when talking about the banks...do we want a Paul Brown Stadium...or a Great American Ballpark?  Which one was mentioned as one of the top 100 hundred favorite buildings (or most recognized...because thats what the survey was really all about).  That speaks to its architectual style and the effect "edgy" design has on place recognition.  Just imagine an entire neighborhood inspired by the materials and strategies implemented on the facades on PBS.  I dont mean to imply that the neighborhood would be comprised of hundreds of smaller PBS's, do not take that statement that literally.

That would be cool,to have a neighborhood of hundreds of small stadia

Contemporary doesn't "suck" and non-contemporary more traditional styles don't suck either but I would prefer to see something striking on the river and not just good because Cincinnati is better than just good design.  I want to see the new renderings and see if any interesting elements are included to make this project exemplary.

Many places are doing Riverfront/Lakefront/Oceanfront development that lifts from the same creativity pool.  Nothings wrong with that but it doesn't give me a unique sense of place.  I would love for some people that know Cincinnati to give Cincinnati what it needs which is a well designed standout project to compliment this absolutely amazing city.

There is a big difference between designing a neighborhood and designing a stadium. Contemporary has to be done extremely, extremely well, otherwise it does suck. I guess if I wanted to make wanted to make a somewhat equal analogy, I'd ask if we want another Freedom Center or a Music Hall, CUT, etc.

I also don't want some faux urban lifestyle center garbage like Atlantic Station.  The Banks should be a beautiful urban neighborhood, not some nasty Newport on the Levee concept.

 

I've been shouting this for some time...don't give me AS or NOTL!

That's a great point, Ink.  It almost requires a genius to properly design a modern building, someone who can utilize space like an artist using minimal decoration.

^ good ole conservative thinking from good ole conservative cincinnati...

 

Conservative thinking?  LOL...  First off I am not native to the area.  Second I have seen too many contemporary buildings that have an awful look and who said anything about a faux OTR?  Lets get one thing straight, contemporary doesn't equate to progressive.  God forbid that we intergrate the classy tried and true brick archetecture of the renderings without it being accused of being some faux OTR.  I personally think the designs of the renderings are stunning.  If the Banks is designed to be a neighborhood and not some magical destination that will cater to some suburban cynic, it will have its own feel and identity and won't be faux. 

That would be cool,to have a neighborhood of hundreds of small stadia

 

LOL!

I agree with Monte:

 

 

...this is it. It has the visual interest that makes it interesting to look at, and it has the right scale.

 

Think Findlay Market, but more downtown, or closer by, west Fourth.

 

Here's a thought.  Whats going on with the Banks is that the city is "replacing" the lost riverfront urban fabric that it lost years ago when it tore everything out for Ft Washington Way and the first stadium.  Why not study the scale and pattern of the facades and buildings that were once there, and use that as sort of a pattern language for the new developement?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well it has been a loooong, loooong time since that part of the riverfront was anything productive.  But when it was, it was a collection of warehouses and other industrial type uses that utilized the river for transporting goods.  I don't know that I would want to replicate the scale of an industrial area....design - sure, but I think that the scale of 6-10 stories is a good one to go with.

Just look how they intergrated the Art Deco of the Times Star building and that Second Empire architecture on the far right is stunning.

The design and layout of The Banks is quite nice, and should be a pleasing 'gateway' to the city. With the inclusion of the parks and the 'gateway' linear park that crosses Fort Washington Way, it will provide a boost to the skyline. The addition of high rises on the south side of Fort Washington would not be realistic, nor would the addition of low-rise one- to two-story structures. The current mix that is planned, with the varying setbacks, circular pedestrian plazas, cornerstone buildings, and flora should provide a very appealing place for residents and businesses alike for the decades to come.

 

Anyone who believes this will become 'dated' because of the facades or the 'newness' should look at historical photographs from the 1920s. Many were in barren landscapes. Trees, decorative sidewalks, and pretty much what we adore today did not exist until the areas were revitalized or rehabilitated in the more modern area. Looking at the archive photos of Lexington, the downtown was pretty barren of trees or flowers; the buildings had no ornate decorations, outside of flashy, neon signs. Give it time, they will look much nicer with the proper maintaince.

The Banks will be a cool riverfront viewing (not using because of commercial usage, mud and filth: which may be cleaned up but the pollution will take time) neighborhood.  I want to see the new renderings because I'm especially interested in what may be happening west of Paul Brown Stadium.

The Banks will be a cool riverfront viewing (not using because of commercial usage, mud and filth: which may be cleaned up but the pollution will take time) neighborhood.

 

Mud and filth? Wtf?

^ good ole conservative thinking from good ole conservative cincinnati...

 

Conservative thinking?  LOL...  First off I am not native to the area.  Second I have seen too many contemporary buildings that have an awful look and who said anything about a faux OTR?  Lets get one thing straight, contemporary doesn't equate to progressive.  God forbid that we intergrate the classy tried and true brick archetecture of the renderings without it being accused of being some faux OTR.  I personally think the designs of the renderings are stunning.  If the Banks is designed to be a neighborhood and not some magical destination that will cater to some suburban cynic, it will have its own feel and identity and won't be faux. 

 

"Lets get one thing straight, contemporary doesn't equate to progressive."  That very statement paints you as conservative...at least architecturally speaking.  Contemporary absolutely equates to progressive.  Now maybe I have been exposed to more discussions, books, lectures, articles etc. than you regarding this topic because i went to architecture school, and thats fine.  But you could NEVER validate your argument that Contemporary architecture is not a sign of progress. 

 

Now maybe the disconnect here is that i dont fully understand what you mean when you say "classy" and maybe you dont understand what i mean when i say "contemporary".  I agree that a nieghborhood build ENTIRELY of "ultra modern" buildings would be terrible.  There are many contemporary projects that i do not like at all...just as there are many traditional buildings that i like a lot. 

 

I dont have a single problem with brick buildings.  I have a problem with brick buildings that replicate a buildings built over 100 years ago (in styles that were a direct physical manifestation of the the technilogical limitations of that time).  If the architecture of those renderings come to fruition, all we will be doing is building a neighborhood that is exactly the same as OTR.  Maybe the buildings will be a little taller and the streets will be wider...but that would be the only difference.  Is that not the definition of "faux"?  My point is, while the neighborhood would be great, and the architecture would be timeless...it is not the right thing to do.  Why build something we already have...that is authentic.  If constructed, these buildings would only demonstrate a fraction of the detail which would adorne a similiar period building because it is expensive.

 

The reason i love this city as much as i do is because of its storied past, its wonderful historic architecture, and the diversity of its people.  This is Cincinnati's chance...its one and only...to prove to the country and the world that while we cherish it, we have moved beyond our past.  This neighborhood needs to be about what we will be, not what we were. 

 

 

 

 

The problem with your assessment is that "contemporary" is also an architecture style so before we continue this discussion, please provide me with examples of what you would like to see on the banks. You comment on the problem with replicating buildings that were build over 100 years ago but don't forget that architecture styles like "Greek Revival" and "Gothic Revival" are recreations of previous architectural styles.  Do we look at those architectural styles and view them as faux, no...

 

any news of when the renderings will be released?

The public likely will get to see the revamped Banks design at an unveiling tentatively scheduled for April 23.

 

Just look a couple of posts ago...this is what was stated in the City Beat article that I posted!

PhattyNati, you've been brainwashed by the Modernists!  Save yourself while you can from that vicious cult. 

 

In your post you said, "while the neighborhood would be great, and the architecture would be timeless...it is not the right thing to do."  The modernist ideology tries to undercut historic styles by saying that they are merely a relic of a less enlightened past, hobbled by various technological limitations.

 

Rather than artificially degrading historic styles, we should hold them in the same esteem as contemporary innovations.  And holding them in the same esteem means continuing to utilize their architectural vocabularies today.  The architect should have the whole breadth and scope of mankind's legacy in the art of building.

 

I will reiterate what I said at the top of the page:  most architects aren't Frank Lloyd Wright or Le Corbusier.  They cannot effectively design buildings that people will enjoy with the limited vocabulary that modernism provides.  And that is ultimately what the architect should be striving for:  the creation of environments and spaces that people actually like.